The great secret of Islam - the hidden history of Islam revealed

Fusion

I found something in your defense -)

http//www.religionresearchinstitute.org/mecca/archeology.htm

The link above talks much better with reasoning from technical perspectives.

There is a faith element involved as well, some folks read the verses of Baka mentioned in Quran as Makkah while others said Bakka is completely different.

The point is that your study lacks the proof for the existence of Makkah, except the muwaia story and the statement
"Really ? Would you live in a place that gets flooded on regularly basis ? Who would ?" This can not be taken as an argument,
there are many more places on earth difficult to survive through tough time.

I will continue to read your translation but we are entitled to have questions ..

cheers

Olaf

After this thread, I am really interested to know the story of Makkah from History and archeological aspects? Is there a study done for this? This is a separate topic and the author should have focused on the facts rather than legends of muwaia.

I am the author.

The work on Makkah history has been done already. Look for it in the footnotes
Maurice Gaudefroy-Demombynes Le P?lerinage ? la Mekke. ?tude d'histoire religieuse, 1923 / The pilgrimage to Makka, a study of religious history (french)
Alfred-Louis de Pr?mare Les Fondations de l'Islam, 2002 / The foundations of Islam (french)
Patricia Crone Meccan trade and the Rise of Islam, Princeton University Press, 1987 & How did the quranic pagans make a
living ? (article http//www.jstor.org/discover/10.2307/20181949)
Edouard-Marie Gallez Le messie et son proph?te, 2005 / the messiah and his prophet (french), featuring a whole file on Makka history as an appendix

With the exception of Patricia Crone's work, this did not get much publicity since all those books are not "islamicly correct" and therfore not "politically correct". Which is why very few people know about the real history of Makka.

Olaf

My point is as Reel said, you should have conducted your study by visiting places, meeting with people, trying to understand the geography and then complete your book.

This is not my point, this is not my position. Let me be clear I am no scholar, no researcher. I am only a writer who tries to publicize / popularize the work of many real scholars and researchers (who have gone on the field - like Christian Robin, head of the arabic archaelogical studies of french CNRS). Mainly, my book is based on Edouard-Marie Gallez's thesis "Le Messie et son Proph?te / the Messiah and his Prophet". Look for his website here http//rootsofislamtruehistory.com/

Peace.

Olaf

The point is that your study lacks the proof for the existence of Makkah, except the muwaia story and the statement
"Really ? Would you live in a place that gets flooded on regularly basis ? Who would ?" This can not be taken as an argument,
there are many more places on earth difficult to survive through tough time.

I will continue to read your translation but we are entitled to have questions ..

cheers

Of course, my book raises many questions. I'll be happy to answer them as long as my poor english skills allow it.

But tell me, are they really many more places on earth mor difficult to survive than Makka ? Think about it

no plants
no wood
no agriculture
no game
no food at all
desert heat
floods

Even the eskimos get to hunt seals or catch fishes ...

Everything in Makka had to be brought by camel back, from food, wood, heat materials to construction supplies (and it still has to be brought today ... Makka still doesn't produce anything at all). And we find no trace, absolutely no trace of all this trade in the ancient sources. The first mentions to a "city in the desert" date from Muawiya. Those are very scarce, very poor sources. The details about Makka start to appear in sources from the 8th century.

Tx for the link !

Peace.

Fusion

Yes I do follow your logic buddy but my issue is the following.

You are just compiling some works done by other authors (not recognized by Islamic world) and come up with your version of The great secret of Islam...without verification and visits to these places (you can't enter Makkah but you can enter Riyadh and see the great museum there) don't you think there could be an element of flaw in your sources which in turn mean your work could have flaws too ?? What would you say to this?

Most of the country has the following characters not just makkah. Especially Riyadh barren dry land , but I have been told by locals about pre Islamic era existed here, and there is a town here called Kharj (off 150 kms) which dates back to before prophet's time.
The famous false prophet guy Musaylimah al-Kaddhab was from here and people have his poems and books kept in tact. He came from a place called yamama in Njad(now Riyadh) and this area has all the things which you mentioned below.

no plants
no wood
no agriculture
no game
no food at all
desert heat
floods

From May to end of Sept the avg temp here is in 40s. And now people can live with all of the modern stuff that comes imported but a century ago, it is the sample place as if thousands years ago.

cheers

Of course, my book raises many questions. I'll be happy to answer them as long as my poor english skills allow it.

But tell me, are they really many more places on earth mor difficult to survive than Makka ? Think about it

no plants
no wood
no agriculture
no game
no food at all
desert heat
floods

Even the eskimos get to hunt seals or catch fishes ...

Everything in Makka had to be brought by camel back, from food, wood, heat materials to construction supplies (and it still has to be brought today ... Makka still doesn't produce anything at all). And we find no trace, absolutely no trace of all this trade in the ancient sources. The first mentions to a "city in the desert" date from Muawiya. They are very scarce, very poor sources. The details about Makka start to appear in sources from the 8th century.

Tx for the link !

Peace.

Olaf

@ Fusion

I am not "just compiling". I read, I listened, I understood, and I worked with Edouard-Marie Gallez to write my book.

The sources and arguments are scientific, logical, rational. There is no belief involved, only pure logic and scientific experimentation process 1) analyse available data, 2) state an hypothesis, 3) test it upon the facts that are known fore sure, and 4) assert it or repell it based on the results. There might be flaws which the scholars (and also I) haven't seen. Then tx for pointing them to me. I do not pretend to have "THE" truth, but only to present an hypothesis that is much much much more probable than the islamic story.

I considered also the islamic sources. They cannot compete with the historical data, they are mostly legend (based somehow on facts, but rewritten in order to fit an islamic point of view). For example, consider the story of the Elephant Battle. Sura 105 tells us about the "people of the elephant", who were beaten in a battle. The s?ra tells us that it occured before Muhammad's time, when an abyssinian king came with a war elephant to Makka to destroy the Kaaba. This can't be no elephant can cross the arabian desert. An elephant needs to drink at least 120 liters of water a day (and even more in a desert ...). Hence, this story from the s?ra (the hypothesis) does not fit the facts (deserts are too hot for elephants who need lots a water), and so it is a false story, a legend. Sura 105 must then mean something else ... Who were the people that used war elephants in late antiquity ? Who were those people that the Qurayshites might have encountered, given the Qurayshites lived in northern Syria ?

It's the same with the legend of the preislamic Makka the islamic hypothesis does not fit the known data ... We know of no ancient city built in a place without the means to sustain life (including trade activities). The places you mentionned (Riyadh, Kadhr) were not as barren a land as Makka there was water enough, recorded trade activity, oasis lifestyle. There were fruit trees and orchards in ancient Riyadh. Nothing like Makka where life cannot endure without help and supply from the outside (even the zam zam well is suspicious due to the regular flooding of the well, zam zam water is often poisoned, not fit for human or beast - there are numerous reports of pilgrims becoming badly sick because they drank this water !)

Peace.

runninglikezebras

My hypothesis of the origins of the zam zam well are as following...

Given the Mecca sanctuary was created ex nihilo to replace the sanctuary in Jerusalem, it used in its architecture among others a mimicry of the second Temple that used to stand in Jerusalem on Temple Mount.

This is what most experts agree the second temple used to look like (reconstruction)

http//www.judaism-islam.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/beit-ha-mikdash.jpg

This is the Masjid al Haram in Mecca

http//www.judaism-islam.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/masjid-al-haram.jpg

The similarities need little explanation both courtyards enclosed with walls with at its center a cubic inner sanctum.

Muslim scholars were not unaware of the similarity between the Baka in Quran and in Psalms 846

As they pass through the Valley of Baka, they make it a place of springs; the autumn rains also cover it with pools.

To make this verse apply to Mecca, one of course would need a well (outside of the practical need for water in an arid environment that is to receive pilgrims in the future).

The pools in the Valley of Baka have a long documented history. Still visible today are what locals refer to as the "pools of Solomon", constructed by the romans - but attributed by tradition to have a much longer history.

https//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f6/The_pools_of_Solomon_Bethlehem_ca1890.jpg/250px-The_pools_of_Solomon_Bethlehem_ca1890.jpg
https//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/15/Solomon%27s_pools2.jpg/250px-Solomon%27s_pools2.jpg
https//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/83/Solomonspool3_n.jpg/250px-Solomonspool3_n.jpg

These pools had the function to provide the many pilgrims at the second temple with water as shown in this image of aqueducts carrying the water to temple mount using gravity alone.

https//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/84/Roman_aqueduct_from_Pools_of_Solomon_to_Jerusalem.jpg/250px-Roman_aqueduct_from_Pools_of_Solomon_to_Jerusalem.jpg

For more info on this water system of the second temple see http//www.bible.ca/archeology/bible-archeology-jerusalem-temple-mount-threshing-floor-aqueduct.htm

I would also like to ask those who have questions to state those in a respectful way. Olaf has put much effort in crosschecking and source referencing his work, and it is hardly fair to judge (even accuse) the author based on a partial translation which is still in progress and far from perfect.

Jafar

Please continue the translation..

My take on this is that, it's not "that simple".
The making of the religion of Islam was a "collaborative" effort spanning many centuries, up to the Abbasid era.

Perhaps it was started by the (so called rightful) "Caliphs" who laid the foundation of the religion.
With such massive kingdom with variety of people (multi ethnicity, languages, religion, culture) they need to invent "something" that shall bond them all together. An identity... a culture... a doctrine.. a religion...

By itself, it's a massive and revolutionary feat..
It requires merely a simple "Shahada" to become a citizen of the "State of Islam".
And then pay taxes to the Caliph..

Compare that to the racist and feudalistic structure of Byzantium Roman society..
Where a 'barbarian' (everyone who are non Roman) will always be 'barbarian'..
Or even to the 'modern' state, the requirement to become a citizen of today's "USA" is much more complicated than that..

runninglikezebras

@Jafar, you make a good point. Indeed the shahada was enough to be a part of the caliphate, which is a revolutionary idea as you put it well. But keep in mind, a similar argument was used by the judeonazarenes to persuade and incorporate the Arabs into their project. A simple shahada would be enough to be part of the judeonazarene project that would return the Messiah to Jerusalem and lead their troops to victory, making them the selected/chosen elite authorized by God. This argument was so persuasive it completely surprised the Byzantine Empire. The isolated groups of judeo-nazarene communities were 'suddenly' (in reality this took quite some time) accompanied and supported by a large force of Arabs.

The next part of the translation will shed some more light on how Islam establishes itself with Abd-Al Malik, which will also show the caliphate did use some of the features of the Byzantine Empire (centralized administration, language, religious text etc).

runninglikezebras

Abd al-Malik (685-705) the foundations of Islam

Abd Al-Malik presents himself as a strong ruler accentuating the history of the Arab conquerors. Claiming to be the sole Caliph, he is working from the beginning of his reign to regain control of the Umma he consolidates its initial positions and then, once insured of its bases, from Damascus to Egypt through Jerusalem, it absorbs the "anticaliphate" of' Abd-Allaah ibn al-Zubayr. He will rely on the general Hajjaj, who was for him both a great minister and a great war leader. He was distinguished in the victorious campaign against Musab Ibn al-Zubayr, brother of Abd Allah, who ruled Mesopotamia (more or less modern Iraq), Abd al-Malik sent him to settle the account with Abd Allah, who was entrenched with his armies around Mecca. The rebel was eventually beheaded and crucified in 692, and his followers were massacred without mercy.

Thus eradicating all opposition and incorporating wars of conquest, particularly in North Africa and against Byzantium, the caliph and his minister were working for the political and military unification of the umma. They reorganize the caliphate by centralizing reforms, inspired in particular by the functioning of the Byzantine Empire (Christian and Jewish experts formerly in his service had been involved). Note in particular the introduction of a new currency, the mark of a sovereign state - the dirham struck with the effigy of the Caliph (see image) - and the imposition of Arabic as an official language (of the court). The written language will thus be set in the late 7th century and evolve relatively to the current literary Arabic. The latter will prove decisive from a religious point of view, since this work of "fabricating" the Arabic language led by grammarians went hand in hand with of the work interpretation and fixation (including the use of vowels) of the Qur'anic text. This can be more widely disseminated within the umma - but not too much however, remaining in principle reserved for the use of religious leaders in support of the speeches justifying the superiority of the Arabs, their intended domination as willed by God and their conquests. Alongside the political reconquest, Abd Al-Malik therefore also commits to a reshuffle of work of the "religion of Abraham" inherited from the Emigrants, in a logic of justification of his own power.

http//media.web.britannica.com/eb-media/17/92917-004-777F1917.jpg
Coin with the image of Abd-Al Malik stating "mhmdrswlllh" "Muhammad messenger of God"

Indeed, instead of being frontally opposed to the figure of Muhammad who had been exhumed (notably by Ibn Zubayr) to destabilize the Caliphates authority, Abd al-Malik (with his advisers) will have the stroke of genius to recover this figure in their advantage by developing him into their religious canon. From 690, we thus see a proliferation of Muhammad's prophetic claims asserted by Abd Al-Malik himself on the Dome of the Rock - built by him, as we shall see, the coins minted from 690 by the Umayyad, revealing the words "Muhammad Rasul Allah" ("Muhammad is the messenger of God" or "Blessed be the messenger of God&quot Abd Al-Malik therefore takes up the figure of Muhammad. He boasts with the legacy of the revelation that made him the authority of "messenger of God" (this is the meaning of the association on these pieces with the effigy of the Caliph next to the formula "Muhammad Rasul Allah&quot. He thus founded the divine origin of his power and justifies his claim of world conquest. By posing as Muhammad's successor, he also credits his religious authority, his status as commander of the faithful - and therefore, it disassembles the main argument of critics who were opposed to him being of the authority of "Rasul" (cf. . Note 105). To this end, he will collect and consolidate the currencies representing Zubayr as "Rasul Allah" and replace them with his own. It is under the rule of Abd al-Malik that authorship of the Qur'an will be accredited to the new prophet Muhammad finally a fixed text, it was necessary to give it a writer. It was especially necessary to prevent the opponents of the caliph from appropriating the figure of Muhammad. The terms of the revelation remain rather vague ; they do not establish less the final break with the judeonazarene origins, founding a religion that didn't exist before, as revealed by the construction of the Dome of the Rock.

https//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/60/Israel-2013%282%29-Jerusalem-Temple_Mount-Dome_of_the_Rock_%28SE_exposure%29.jpg/265px-Israel-2013%282%29-Jerusalem-Temple_Mount-Dome_of_the_Rock_%28SE_exposure%29.jpg
Image dome of the rock

What is the actual meaning of the Dome of the Rock which Abd Al-Malik had built in Jerusalem? The meaning of this building continues to intrigue historians when they stick to the presuppositions of Islamic history (especially the pseudo-primacy of Mecca). Built in the late 7th century (there is debate about the early date of 692 as corresponding to the beginning of the work or its completion), this prestigious monument that dominates with its splendor all religious monuments in Jerusalem (at least what remained of churches and Christian sanctuaries after the destruction of the century - Jerusalem and Palestine is still predominantly Christian) celebrates the affirmation of a new religion supposedly prevailing over all others, under the authority of the caliph. We now know that before there stood the "Masjid Umar", place of prostration of Omar (this is why the Dome of the Rock still continues to be traditionally called Mosque of Omar ), that is to say the cube constructed by judeonazarenes on the supposed site of the ancient temple of Jerusalem. Since Abd Al-Malik came to power, he left this building as restored under Muawiya and attested for by c hronicles of travelers .

The new caliph of the sanctuary will bring back the "Abrahamic" memory which some Jewish traditions (and also the judeonazarene faith) associated with the Temple Mount (identified at Mount Moriah), as a place of sacrifice of Isaac he makes the summit - which formed possibly the basis of the old sacrificial altar in the days of the Temple - the center of the dome, around which the faithful are invited to stroll. In doing so, Abd al-Malik breaks away with the eschatological meaning of the judeonazarene first cube in benefit of the celebration of what seems to be the desire to place the three "Abrahamic religions" under his authority - this is what is suggested by its mosaics. The Dome of the Rock is therefore devoid of Qibla (Makkah or other) it is centered on itself. It is only later that Abd al-Malik integrates Mecca in his religious corpus, thus affirming his imperium over the former stronghold of his rival Ibn al-Zubayr. The sanctuary that he will rebuild will have the approximate shape of a cube (instead, apparently, a hemicycle), and the figures of Abraham and Ishmael will be attached to it, removing temporarily the meaning of the of the dome of the rock as a homonym for Jerusalem dome (we will see later how the Muslim discourse will evolve to integrate the rock into its corpus).

Prophecy, Quran, completion of Abrahamic religions ... We are witnessing under Abd al-Malik the link to all elements of the future founders of Islam. They are at the service of a discourse that begins to display for the first time consistency, tangible internal logic since the retraction of the judeonazarene foundation. To understand this, we must imagine how the "religion of Abraham" was deeply modified in the interests of Arab leaders. Its successive manipulations have continued to trigger new manipulations, caused by their own inconsistencies, dispute within the ummah, and because of the influence of external factors, as explained in the following schematic.

http//i.imgur.com/8hFJgkz.png

In detail the external factors contained therein which weighed on the "religion of Abraham"

Inconsistencies the religion may be renounced by external critics, including Jewish and Christian. It will explain the great care that will be taken to prevent non-Muslims access to Muslim texts on the one hand, and to prevent Muslims access to the texts of other religions (or have them explained and preached), on the other hand. The mere presence of these other religions, consistent, with the sacred writings of prophets and holy places works like a spur for the evolution of the "religion of Abraham". It wants to be " supra-confessional ", that is to say above all and completing all revelations. It will be essential that it can give, at least in appearance, the pledges of this claim to stand as a religion, that is founded and honorable. In practice, however, it held its superiority more by coercion exerted internally and externally on the ummah over the infidels.
The head of power can be challenged by external enemies of the ummah, such as the Byzantine Empire - disputed or conversely strengthened in case of victory and conquest of new territories.

What triggered this mechanism is the retraction of the judeonazarenes in 640, the first manipulation. Since then, they have only a succession, each caliph trying both to control the umma by force and justify his power by this logic of reverse reconstruction of religion and history. The phenomenon has continued to repeat, adding layer upon layer of manipulation and manipulation to the "religion of Abraham" as preached by judeonazarenes. Which was a religion basing itself on the crazy project of achieving to eradicate the evil of the earth - with ultimately the Arabs, having removed the judedonazarenes have resuming their account by changing the terms. Thus little by little by the destruction of rewriting, the phenomenon produces the face of a new religion. It brings an equal amount of strife, civil war and violence, and more before declaring war against the world, the religion, the future Islam by nature is already at war against itself. By its very firm grip of the ummah, Abd Al-Malik has achieved the feat to slow down, calm down somewhat this vicious cycle, by achieving a balance between the religious and the political. He relied on two main drivers on the one hand, the affirmation of the power of the Caliphate, a strong power, centralized, better organized, able to more or less effectively curb dissension within the umma; on the other hand, the establishment of a religious body better meeting the ideological-political needs. Thus the Islamic religion began to take shape under Abd al-Malik although Mecca for example, has not yet the status it enjoys today. It's with him that the fundamentals, the pillars and the worldview are fixated that will structure it across the centuries. These same fundamentals we have mentioned earlier in the description of the Muslim dogma (see earlier post). Everything now revolves roughly consistent around concepts of divine will, revelation of this desire by a succession prophecies completed by the latter, of a holy book, holy places and an elected community to accomplish this will worldwide. The time of "proto-Islam", the Arabs and their allegiance to judeonazarenes, is long gone. The time of the "first-Islam," one of Arab leaders trying to somehow justify their dominance is coming to an end.

The time of Islam will be able to begin

The specific terms for the revelation to Muhammad have long been fluctuating. John of Damascus wrote in 746 (in his Treaty of Heresies) that Muslim masters in Damascus claimed Mohammed claimed had received it in his sleep. It was then not yet a question of the Angel Gabriel.
Archaeologists have found in 1992, between Jerusalem and Bethlehem, the remains of a monumental church, the Church of the Kathisma. Prior to the Dome of the Rock, as it has a triple octagon plan centered on a rock, everything indicates that Abd al Malik was inspired by this to build his own monument. It was converted into a mosque by the Arabs, then destroyed in the 11th century.
A new religion which still call itself "religion of Abraham"; the name of Islam shall appear around the year 720. See in this regard the work of Manfred Kropp (his lectures at the Coll?ge de France are referenced in annex).
Historians do not always understand that nickname. Miryam Rosenheim Ayalon writes, " despite the name" Mosque of Omar ", which is often attributed to him, it is not a mosque and can in no way be attributed to the caliph Omar "(in" Art and Islamic archeology in Palestine &quot. Indeed, it would be the only mosque not to present a qibla, that is to say, outward direction for prayer (qibla let alone facing Mecca). They simply forget the previous cube, built by the emigrants, and the reason for its construction.
cf. note 92 on chronic Arculf the pilgrim.

reel

@ reel

I am the author of this "soap opera". I am very thankfull to Runninglikezebras for his translation. At this point, there are many pages left to be translated, including a short quranic study.

Wait for the rest of the translation, you will learn how the quran has been written and rewritten by grammar, rhyme and theology specialists, which is why many muslims today find its content "miraculous". No wonder they wrote it exactly for this purpose.

What good is your judgement about my book, if you haven't read it entirely ? Especially the parts about the quran ? Be patient !

The judgement is that they already had such a great formula to create a book that cannot be forged later and this means we would have seen many of their other books carrying this formula including the hadith books which always seem to have immense scientific mistakes, contradictions and never seem to go a day without edits. Also Quran doesn't give your so called Arab team the right to go around conquering.

Mainly, my book is based on Edouard-Marie Gallez's thesis "Le Messie et son Proph?te / the Messiah and his Prophet".

And yep people have written their thesis justifying accuracy of cartoonish hadith books.

This is what I found out about you

I am a blogger, consultant and journalist.
I am not a researcher or academic, but popularizer
, relying on the work of real scientists, foremost among which Father Edward Gallez-Marie, with whom I worked for two years for writing the Great Secret of the Islam. The sources used in this book are cited and verifiable. I also offer free T?l?chargment on my site a presentation of the main sources and selected bibliography at the basis of the research outlined in Great Secret of Islam. The discerning reader is referred to the two volumes of the thesis of Father Edouard-Marie Gallez (The Messiah and his prophet, 2005-2010 by Editions de Paris) to find many other sources and testimonies that would have been too cumbersome to expose in the popular book that is the Great Secret of Islam. One can also visit Santa Gallez http//www.lemessieetsonprophete.com where it updates its work. The thesis proposed by Father Edouard-Marie Gallez and presented in The Great Secret of Islam has never been refuted frontally and rigorously since its publication in 2005. Instead, the publications of the researchers are continuing to succeed since, and converge in the direction of the discoveries of Father Edouard-Marie Gallez, the refining and supporting. I have quoted some in the annex of the Great Secret of Islam.

We heard this same story before which goes like "Hi, I am Abu Huraira who stayed with "Prophet" 2 years and hence I know more about his teachings and Islam than all his family members combined. I don't have any way to prove that whatever I am saying is true, but hey you must trust me what I say cuz I stayed with the Prophet 2 years."

And I am not the only person who has seen the mistake you are making. Here is your another reader

Hello Olaf.

As you say yourself, you are not academic, objective you show up as a popularizer qui subsequently assembled on the work of "great scientists" (the rest can wonder about what criteria you base this epithet "great&quot as the Father Edouard-Marie Gallez , Including His thesis "The Messiah and his
prophet." Now the work you-have the carried out leading to writing your book "The Great Secret of Islam 'n' remains a Work That is in the wake of the historical research. Need I Remind you , in this respect, That intellectual activity HAS rules That It can not depart, as Guarantors, rightly, has some intellectual rigor without qui the stamp "historical research" Becomes illegitimate?
And Among thesis rules face the problem of sources. In this regard, you are aware que la value of a historical research is first suspended in the quality of ict historiographical references, as well as the assurance of objective analysis and Their, consequently, Their covered operations.
In this regard, we deplore the number of assertions devoid of ANY reference sources in your writing. For example, to justify the indoctrination of Qor?chites by the Jewish Nazarenes, you write, Without Any source citation to supporting your way, in the page 27 <>. The footnote to the page what this transition Refers simply happy, for Lack of a reliable and objective historiographical reference, promising a return to the examination of the Koran to detect traces of this indoctrination. Counting on the Koran in to do this work Will save you the critical comprenant blame you for Taking the easy way of interpreting a text Whose objective and intelligible reading is, in Many Ways, Almost not possible (at least for ict Reviews some of passes); qui est far from Guaranteeing an objective look.
What a pity !This transition is the cornerstone of your thesis and, in the lack of ANY reference to the source or underlie, you cover of a lightweight "deleterious" as to whether to grant him Some credit. And what say -you aussi That reporting R?mi Brague, University Paris 1, In His account comparison entre les Ch Luxenberg and work of A. Pr?mare (. Http. //www.revue-texto net / Releases / CR / Brague_CR.html)
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Given thesis considerations, it must resolve to Conclude que la can link entre les Jewish Nazarenes and the birth of Islam Historically is not established, can not pass the intellectual limits of mere hypothesis and que la perspective of historical research, gratuitous assertion to make this crossing is a risky business.

Best regards.

The person above saw exactly what I saw in your writing because I am not only used to doing research and surrounded by researchers. One of my specializations is in marketing. Let me tell you some things

Saying I worked with him and her does not make your claims trustworthy.
The epicness of your response lies in the fact that you could not have any explanation for my comment on how you don't have knowledge about the geographic location you are linking to wars and conquest.
Thanks for saying you are a journalist and that gives us more reason to be suspicious of your work.
The period you are talking about has lots of historical uncertainties for which researchers do not claim anything they research on about it as ultimate truth. They use words like "maybe, perhaps, could be, probably, etc" in their writings to remain objective and honest. They do this even with the names of the battles.
You talk about "God's chosen people" without explaining what that means. I know its definition, but won't give it to you.
You didn't ever study extremism linked to religions (how it happens, where it happens, etc)
Your http//legrandsecretdelislam.com/media/ pretty much sums up your actual intention.
Your research work is mainly for those who have no idea about extremism found in other religions and tend to think all religions are violent because they just don't know about how to use agenda setting process for maximum gains.

peace

reel

Another thing, saying scientists of the sources are great and real is a very old marketing technique that doesn't work anymore. The main aim of this marketing technique is to mask the questionable parts of the content. I am sure Muslims in here already saw this in Islamic books many many times.
Example About Mr Bukhari
He obtained his educations after vigorous study. A year later, he had such a good retention of the text and chains of transmission of Ah?d?th, that sometimes teachers got their corrections from him. Im?m Bukh?r? had been acquiring religious education with competance and swiftness and at the tender age of sixteen, he had completely learnt by heart the books of Abdull?h ibn al-Mub?rak, al-Wak? and other learned companions of al-Im?m Ab? Han?fa radiyall?hu `anhum.

How hadith books are forced on people No matter how dubious the hadith looks accept it by looking at its "error free" isnad.

Fusion

Many thanks to reel for such detailed analysis.
I found the so far translations quite interesting but what bothers me is the intention. You dont go around making strong statements about islam , its rulers, its places and the quran(have you really read the quran and understood in full or you cherry pick verses to suport your claims, like that of bakah word, which by the way couls relate to a non physical place as well, as if you stumbled upon the final truth. You need to present your work and finding in a manner that people will appreciate your efforts because youdid not make judgements. One thing for sure, your writings made me feel embarassed that i did not know or tried to learn history of practical islam, which i shall do now. Cheers

Jafar

You dont go around making strong statements about islam , its rulers, its places and the quran

islam it's rulers, its places and its holy book.
islam has rulers, has places and has a holy book.
Hmmm.. you need to 'rethink' on what islam really is..
What's next? islam has enemies, islam has traitors, islam has allies, islam has troops, islam has weapons, islam has songs, islam has banks, islam has restaurants, islam has hotels and the list goes on and on..

But anyway, I support the author to uncover some of the "hidden" aspect and also making strong statement about the RELIGION of Islam.

http//i.imgur.com/8hFJgkz.png
Fully agree on the image above..

@Jafar, you make a good point. Indeed the shahada was enough to be a part of the caliphate, which is a revolutionary idea as you put it well. But keep in mind, a similar argument was used by the judeonazarenes to persuade and incorporate the Arabs into their project. A simple shahada would be enough to be part of the judeonazarene project that would return the Messiah to Jerusalem and lead their troops to victory, making them the selected/chosen elite authorized by God. This argument was so persuasive it completely surprised the Byzantine Empire. The isolated groups of judeo-nazarene communities were 'suddenly' (in reality this took quite some time) accompanied and supported by a large force of Arabs.

The Judeo Nazarenes was the weakest group among other Judeo group at the times.
The Judeo Nazarenes was declared as INFIDEL and HERETICS both by Judaist and also Nicean Christians (Byzantium Roman Christianity)

With the situation where Christianity received strong political backing from the "1st world country" (Byzantium) and Judaism received strong political backing from "2nd world country" (Sassanid) it's natural for them to seek refuge, protection and allies among "3rd world countries", which in turn shall overthrow both the 1st and also the 2nd world country. (History repeat itself many times, up until today).

Although I would avoid labeled the "3rd world countries" as Arabs, as the meaning of such word greatly differs between then and now. And none of them labeled themselves as "Arabs" during that time.

The hyphotesis of "Judeo-Nazarene" origin is not far fetched, as doctrines found in the Quran is in majority aligned with Judeo-Nazarenes doctrines.
They were the most desperate group among other Judeo group..

Thus a simple 'requirement' to join the movement/sect/religion/group is necessary as they don't have the luxury of being picky..
No need to prove that you have a lineage from "the chosen people", no need for complicated bathing ritual (Baptism), just say these words and you're among us... God's most chosen people.... Now.. go to war and fight for the glory your God...
The move was brilliant I might say..

The next part of the translation will shed some more light on how Islam establishes itself with Abd-Al Malik, which will also show the caliphate did use some of the features of the Byzantine Empire (centralized administration, language, religious text etc).

Definitely, there are strong influence of Byzantine's within the religion of Islam.

Holy book
Holy ritual
Holy places
(among them, Hagia Sophia Basilica, constructed in 537 AD, and the "right of asylum" for those who seek protection inside the building, also being mentioned briefly in the book of Quran of "whoever enters it shall be safe.", 396)
Holy Saints
Conversion mechanism
Prohibition of Christian to enslave another Christian.
(While it's allowable for Christian to enslave Jews or Pagan for example, and Judeo-Nazarenes fell inside the category of Pagans)
Prohibition of anyone to have a Christian slave (all slaves which converted to Christianity have to be freed)
Taxation system
Military service (only for Christians, while Jews and Pagans were exempted)

etc..

Fusion

Hey Jaffer,

You took my statement out of the whole context. By no means am supporting what has had happened to this religion over the centuries by opportunists. I am simply questioning the motive of this thread and the tone in which the translation or the actual book is written.
I have worked with French and I know the racism in them against Islam in general, not that the author is one of em but the way it is going on, I feel there is a plot to all this ; book.

Cheers