The Paris massacre - Silence as always
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Since you seem to be answering my questions and not dodging them like some in this thread have done, I have a few more questions.
Trust me brother I know how frustrating that can be here! I was only popping in and out of this thread but since you've mentioned this I sympathise with this so of course I'll try my best to rationalise it through with you or act as a sounding board.
As far as my previous knowledge goes on the Ka3bah, I know that refers to a protrusion, such as the anklebone on the side of our feet as well as a rocky protrusion from the land and is considered more of a noun directly relating to the stone structure we're talking about, both words have cubic connotations. There were many or throughout the Arabian peninsula and elsewhere in the middle east, most of which nowhere near as grand as the Ka3bah in Mecca we have today.
What relevance does the stone cube in Mecca have in the Quran? Is there any Quranic evidence that Abraham and his son built a stone cube and found a stone that fell from paradise? Is there any Quranic evidence that this stone forgives sins when it is kissed and turned black because of all the sins people committed?
So, I've done a search and appears 2 times in the Qur'aan
595
"O you who have believed, do not kill game while you are in the state of i?ram. And whoever of you kills it intentionally ? the penalty is an equivalent from sacrificial animals to what he killed, as judged by two just men among you as an offering delivered to the Ka?bah, or an expiation the feeding of needy people or the equivalent of that in fasting, that he may taste the consequence of his deed. Allah has pardoned what is past; but whoever returns , then Allah will take retribution from him. And Allah is Exalted in Might and Owner of Retribution."597
Allah has made the Ka?bah, the Sacred House, standing for the people and the sacred months and the sacrificial animals and the garlands . That is so you may know that Allah knows what is in the heavens and what is in the earth and that Allah is Knowing of all things.In this ayah it states specifically, i.e. that it is some kind of house (and there have been discussions here about the meaning on 7araam).
For such an important place like Mecca, where hajj and Umrah is performed and where the infamous stone cube is worshipped, why is there only one mention of it in the Quran? Let's just assume that Bakkah is Mecca, is it because Allah couldn't get the name of such an important and holy place right?
This is the only verse in the Quran where Mecca is mentioned.
"And it is He who withheld their hands from you and your hands from them within Makkah after He caused you to overcome them. And ever is Allah of what you do, Seeing." 4824Without applying mental gymnastics, where in this verse does Allah tell you that Makkah is a holy place, contains a stone cube, a forgiving black stone and holy zamzam water? Where in this verse does Allah tell you that a stone cube is to be worshipped? Does Allah require the assistance of his own creation(a stone cube) in order for his creation to worship him? Can Allah not send a GUIDE which tells us how to perform a physical ritual called salat without the help of Bukhari & Co? Did Allah suddenly forget to include a step-by-step explanation on a physical ritual called salat but remembers to include one for a nameless cleaning ritual? Does that make any sense?
I think the majority of this stuff is tradition or recorded in extra-Quranic writings.
I reject the stone cube in Mecca, The Bukharian pagan rituals known as salat and hajj by the pagan cult of Islam, the forgiving black stone, the magical zamzam water and the pagan interpretations of the Quran. Quran has been hijacked by Islam. Islam can go to hell.
I personally think that if all the Hajj stuff is outright paganism (i.e. not a purified form of some Abrahamic ritual) then it probably predated Bukhari by a long shot.
I may sound like a kaffir to many people in this forum but I could not care less.
I think most of us here posting in this forum would sound like Kuffar to some traditional Muslims!
These people follow nothing but conjecture. They don't wish to step outside the herd of sheep they were born into. I stand by the decisions and comments I've made and will continue to do so until The Source Of Knowledge guides me to a better understanding.
Just remember to maintain your humility brother. There's a lot of mainstream Muslim bashing here, and in many areas those mainstream Muslims may be right, if you have the mindset that 'those' other people are sheep, you're implying you're not vulnerable to the same kind of deceptions. We're all just human bro and we're all imperfect and can be led astray as well as leading ourselves astray.
So what are we trying to say here specifically? That the Hajj is all post-Bukhari innovation? What are we saying al-ka3bah is?
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Hello,
I beg your pardon, Osman.
In this ayah it states specifically, i.e. that it is some kind of house (and there have been discussions here about the meaning on 7araam).
Bait does not exclusively mean house but it can refer to household as well or even a concept because it is a structure that consists of entities, i.e. it does not necessarily refer to that physical structure you infer towards. A mistake people do with Arabic is that they first of all think physically when interpreting. Here you have a root analysis
Ba-Ya-Ta = by/in/at night (excluding sleep), entered upon or passed the night
tent, house, home
Thinking about something and its end result (conceptualizing)
Concealed or conceived something in the mind
A structure of clay or any structure signifying a habitation, an abode or dwelling.
Buildings, uninhabited houses, shops, ruins, bazaars, places where the entering is allowed by the owners.
Ark of Noah, Mosques, places of worship, Kaabeh or Jerusalem
A grave
Household or family
Nobility
Sudden attack in the night or a surprise attack in the night
Remaining through the night (e.g. bread or water that stays out and becomes stale)The underlined interests me the most. I have found that "concept" in English fits the bill quite well. But everyone with a preconception about holy buildings will obviously wish to bias their way into buildings.
In fact, lexicons mention building the least among all available definitions. Household is likely its more widely used meaning.
Most definitions speak of the night.
Allah has made the Ka?bah, the Sacred House, standing for the people
There are thus multiple errors in this rendition.
Qaiama is a word that tends to more overall mean straight or upright as that something is proper/appropriate.
Kab'ateh does not have to be a proper noun and is object marked (ة, i.e. it is an attribute noun.
Kaf-Ayn-Ba = swell/prominent/protuberant/projection/budding (common examples include a woman's breasts), jointed-stem, fold, went away, joint/juncture/division of bones (more commonly the ankle bone), tarsus (in animals), swift, eminence/nobility/glory, anything elevated, square/cubic house/chamber, square-form, to hasten, to go away paying no regard to anything
Quote from Lane's lexicon "a house or temple belonging to the tribe of Rabee'ah, who used to compass it, or perform circuits round it (as is done round the Kabbeh of Mekkeh)".= (tropical) Eminence, or nobility, and glory. (K.)
A man eminent, or noble, and successful in his enterprises. (TA.)
May God exalt his glory! (TA, from a trad.)
May thy glory not cease to be exalted! See , in art. . (TA.)
Thy nobility, or glory, hath exalted me. (TA.)Not to mention the sentence uses allah which is not a name for God, but means 'Who Is' Basically nothing is right in the traditional rendition. Al-kabateh most likely refers to eminence. It appears that 596 is supposed to form the beginning of sentence and the sentence would have a full stop in the middle of 597 and then resume with another sentence. It simply indicates the incompetence of the ancient interpreters. (...made 'Who Is' eminent) appears to end a sentence, which beginning was in 596. It does not have to be 100% definite, but it depends on the the surrounding context.
For a better analysis I would have to look upon the whole context and sit down for hours analyzing, which time I do not have.
Mecca and Kaba cannot be right because it is a Pagan habit. God would never approve of such behavior since it is mindlessness. It is also against the Decree on line number two, do not make an image of anything from Heaven or Earth There are no holy buildings, holy people etc.
Be safe
Amenuel -
I personally think that if all the Hajj stuff is outright paganism (i.e. not a purified form of some Abrahamic ritual) then it probably predated Bukhari by a long shot.
The Festival on Mecca (and also on Sana'a Yemen) around the cube like structure did predated Bukhari by centuries.
It seems to be part of Southern Arabian Peninsula tradition.Sana'a Cube was discussed here
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9603432.0Abraham didn't invented such ritual, the only ritual which he did invented was the tradition of "Circumcision".
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The Festival on Mecca (and also on Sana'a Yemen) around the cube like structure did predated Bukhari by centuries.
It seems to be part of Southern Arabian Peninsula tradition.Exactly, whatever side of the fence of this issue you're on, the 'Abrahamic Ritualistic Purity' side or the 'This Religion is Clearly Syncretic' side - claiming it started with Bukhari is silly with all the evidence showing the age of these rituals.
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This question, as so many other, may hav svral sides, the historic, the ritualistic, the perosonal.
The historic part is something that intrigues us. It is understnadable that we want to lnow.
The ritul part, as any rituas has always the danger of taking us away form sincere devotion to become the typical mere ritual It may be different for each person when each factor comes into play.But it is up to us in any circumstance or question to determine whether we are gone beyonde point of benefitting from anyritual to the point of making the ritual something we do mechanically because we must and we gain nothing inany spiritua or human way.
Salaam
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To stay on the topic The same type of Muslims who were saying "What about Syria" when discussing what Israel did to Gaza did not say the same thing when Paris was hit by a terrorist attack.
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Certainly, many people received guidance without any books.
The entire notion of "God(s) authored a book" was started by Ancient Egyptian.
Dogmatized as such in order to make revenue from selling the "God's authored book".
Inside it contains many things which is impossible to believe (or prove), thus the argument that "it was coming from God" will silence all the questioning.Let me remind you that this is GOD ALONE FORUM, for those who submit to the ONE GOD as stated by the Forum Opening page...
WHAT IS ISLAM?
The system of God "Islam/Submission" has been taught to us through God and His messenger and is fully outlined in the final Book of God (The Qur'an) which was revealed centuries ago...
The Qur'an claims legitimacy for itself and within itself, allowing NO room for self-made priests, or religious leaders, who have distorted and misquoted the Book of God to give themselves authority and partnership with the Almighty...
?'Shall I seek other than God as a judge when He has sent down to you the Book fully detailed?'? Those to whom We have given the Book know it is sent down from your Lord with truth; so do not be of those who have doubt." (Qur'an 6114 )
"Say 'Which is the greatest testimony?' Say 'God is witness between me and you, and He has inspired to me this Qur'an that I may warn you with it and whomever it reaches, that you bear witness that along with God are other gods!' Say 'I do not bear witness!' Say 'He is only One god, and I am innocent of what you set up!'? (Qur'an 619)
"And We have come to them with a Book which We have detailed with knowledge; a guide and a mercy to those who believe." (Qur'an 752)
"We have revealed to you the Book with truth that you may judge between the people by that which God has shown you, and do not be an advocate for the treacherous. " (Qur'an 4105)
"And the Day We send to every nation a witness against them from themselves, and We have brought you as a witness against these. And We have sent down to you the Book as a clarification for all things, and a guide and mercy and good tidings to those who have surrendered." (Qur'an 1689)
"And We have sent down to you the Book with truth, authenticating what is present of the Book and superseding it. So judge between them by what God has sent down, and do not follow their desires from what has come to you of the truth. For each of you We have made laws, and a structure; and had God willed, He would have made you all one nation, but He tests you with what He has given you; so strive to do good. To God you will return all of you, and He will inform you regarding that in which you dispute." (Qur'an 54
The first "God's authored book" titled "Book of the dead" was put for sale at around $200,000 if it's in today US dollar. Or about 4 years salary of highly ranked Ancient Egyptian's government official.
Wrong, Islam has been around since the time of Nuh. The Prophets after him also received the Book and Judgement / Wisdom, Q0683 - 89. But off course you are not believer, you will never accept the Quran!
Definitely, now I'm starting to realize that the Eastern Asian tradition (Dharmic line of thought) makes more sense compared to their western counterpart.
And they don't have any "holy book" or claimed that the book was written by God.So why are here in this forum, since most of the people in this forum are full of craps??? What is your motive???
Agree, revelation is still continuing up until now..
Where, i dont recall in so far, any revelation since 1500 years???
However this lead to another question
WHY DID SOMEONE CAME UP WITH THE IDEA OF FINAL REVELATION?
What are his or their motive of doing such?You are not a believer of the Last Revelation than why are you wasting your time here in this forum, to mock on those who believe?
You who believe! Do not take as friends any of those given the Book before you or the unbelievers who make a mockery and a game out of your believe. Fear Allah if you are believers. (Surat al-Ma?ida, 57)
... lest anyone should say, ?Alas for me for neglecting what Allah was due, and being one of the scoffers!? (Surat az-Zumar, 56)
When he does learn something of Our Signs, he makes a mockery of them. Such people will have a humiliating punishment. (Surat al-Jathiyya, 9)
Yeah exactly, that is your motive! The Moderators of this forum should ban you!