Proof that the HELL IS ETERNAL
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Some of Quranaloners also claim that hell is not forever. Their arguments are based on
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mistranslation(s) -particularly of the word khuld and abad
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misinterpretations (of other verses who are translated correctly- see 3/7)
Let us, again, turn our attention to the two quoted passages. They clearly claim /teach/point to us the following
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Hell IS forever and is NOT restricted only to a limited number of days.
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Conviction that hell is restricted only to a limited number of days lead to misconduct and disobedience to The God.
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There is no such thing as "burning out" for sins until these are fully "repayed" (and the sinner is then taken out and sent to paradise) as the traditionalists believe (this concept of believer being a sinner is also wrong and we will Gw explain it elsewhere).
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2/80-82 particularly clearly explain that word khuld actualy/indeed HAS meaning of eternity/unlimitedness. This is done by using this word (triliter kh-l-d) in the passage as the opposite to/of limited number of days. This is very important since there are some who believe that hell is not forever based on the claim that triliter kh-l-d and it's derivatives do(es) not mean forever. We must say that the multi-meaning triliter kh-l-d truly does not always and not neccessarly mean
forever, but such meaning (forever) is clearly intended in this passage in reference to/with hell, as well as, it can be extricated from the context in many other places throughout The Reading. Plus, it is found in the dictionaries.
And the whole Quran leaves the impression that the man's position in hell or paradise is the final destiny of every man (there is no any description of life after hell or paradise). Note that there are verses (for example 1116) that says that there is nothing except the fire for unbelievers in the akhirah/other life. How, then, anybody can claim that they would be saved from fire ?
There is a plenty of verses in which is said that the dwelling in the hell will be forever, will be eternal. There are many multiple?meaning arabic words in the Quran. Existence of an alternate meaning does not exclude the main meaning since it is the only one which fit at many places in the Quran. See this verse
2167 Thus will Allah show them their own deeds as anguish for them, and they will not emerge (kharejeena) from the Fire.
Thus, as we see, not only that the permanent stay in the fire is based on the meaning of triliter kh?l?d, but is confirmed in (using) other words. Read more verses on the topic
537 They want that they get out from the fire, and they are not with getting out (kharejeena) from it, and for them (is) a continuing (muqeem) torture.
Source http//www.free-minds.org/Old/articles/science/hellfire.htm .
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Only God is eternal, nothing else.
God is just, God will not punish except in the same measure that it is transgressd. No sin any human can commit is eternal, punishment eternal would be grossly unjust. It is not even a tooth by a toth, but for a tooth hell forever. I can't, nobody could call anybody who appointed punishments by that measure anything but most infamous and cruel.
Hell is not eternal, paradise is not eternal, only God is eternal and to Him is the destiy of everythig as the Qur'an repeats many times.
Salaam
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Only God is eternal, nothing else.
God is just, God will not punish except in the same measure that it is transgressd. No sin any human can commit is eternal, punishment eternal would be grossly unjust. It is not even a tooth by a toth, but for a tooth hell forever. I can't, nobody could call anybody who appointed punishments by that measure anything but most infamous and cruel.
Hell is not eternal, paradise is not eternal, only God is eternal and to Him is the destiy of everythig as the Qur'an repeats many times.
Salaam
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So, in short, you come here posting your interpretation without solid proofs confirm it....
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Kh-Lam-Dal does not mean eternally, it means continuously and can include conditions. When Khalad you remain somewhere, but it does not say whether there is a way out or not. If it would be without any possible end then the language would need to specify this.
It would be as if in English you say "and in it they will remain" and this does not clarify whether it is eternally or until a specific condition is met. Eternally is a sectarian addition to the definitions. The Arabic definitions are supposed to say continuously and if something is continuous then it does not end, but it does not say eternally.
One stays in "Hell" until they have rectified themselves and this is the purpose of Jahennom and this the ancient Jews knew, but the fake sectarian clerics fabricated what Quran says and claimed the ancient Jews were wrong. In fact you stay in "Hell" for a conditional number of "days" depending on if you mature/ripen or not. Jahennom is not really a punishment but a "purgatory" and a development ground.
Be well
Amenuel -
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So, in short, you come here posting your interpretation without solid proofs confirm it....
If God insist the whole of Qur'an in quite and proclaim that himself will not wrong anybody, when you attrbute to Him punishing people for eternity tel me if you are not insulting Him and laying onn what he says r tht He contradicts himself. On he other hand how can you call anything eternal bu Got. Only God i eternal, anything ele can end any time and everthing will end any time and peole are nnot destined to paradie or hell eternally becaue as the Qur'a says repeatedly "ilayI al masir" to Him is our destiny. If our destiny would be hell or paradie he would say "to hell or paradise al masir".
Eternal is only God. Only God, eerything else is contingent and will end devolving back to Him. Read what the Qur'an DOES say.
Evil people will rot in hell, that is just as we say so and so will rot in jail. Enough time to make a vry big dent in any evilnes.
For eternity there are ohr words and only aply to God.
Salaam
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Peace,
We are told that God is Just many times in the Qur'an. Tell me, how is an infinite amount of suffering just for a being that has lived a finite life?
In this very finite life you've had the chance to believe and acting according it. How much lifes do you want to being tested? 5000?
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The good thing with a non-eternal Hell is that people can repent and reform. That is a merciful God. Someone or something just got to wake them up.
Be well
Amenuel -
Kh-Lam-Dal does not mean eternally, it means continuously and can include conditions. When Khalad you remain somewhere, but it does not say whether there is a way out or not. If it would be without any possible end then the language would need to specify this.
2/80-82 particularly clearly explain that word khuld actualy/indeed HAS meaning of eternity/unlimitedness. This is done by using this word (triliter kh-l-d) in the passage as the opposite to/of limited number of days. This is very important since there are some who believe that hell is not forever based on the claim that triliter kh-l-d and it
s derivatives do(es) not mean forever. We must say that the multi-meaning triliter kh-l-d truly does not always and not neccessarly meanforever`, but such meaning (forever) is clearly intended in this passage in reference to/with hell, as well as, it can be extricated from the context in many other places throughout The Reading. Plus, it is found in the dictionariesIt would be as if in English you say "and in it they will remain" and this does not clarify whether it is eternally or until a specific condition is met. Eternally is a sectarian addition to the definitions. The Arabic definitions are supposed to say continuously and if something is continuous then it does not end, but it does not say eternally.
There is a plenty of verses in which is said that the dwelling in the hell will be forever, will be eternal. There are many multiple-meaning arabic words in the Quran. Existence of an alternate meaning does not exclude the main meaning since it is the only one which fit at many places in the Quran. See this verse
2167 Thus will Allah show them their own deeds as anguish for them, and they will not emerge (kharejeena) from the Fire.
One stays in "Hell" until they have rectified themselves and this is the purpose of Jahennom and this the ancient Jews knew, but the fake sectarian clerics fabricated what Quran says and claimed the ancient Jews were wrong. In fact you stay in "Hell" for a conditional number of "days" depending on if you mature/ripen or not. Jahennom is not really a punishment but a "purgatory" and a development ground.
- There is no such thing as "burning out" for sins until these are fully "repayed" (and the sinner is then taken out and sent to paradise) as the traditionalists believe(this concept of believer being a sinner is also wrong and we will Gw explain it elsewhere).
All my responses are copied from http//www.free-minds.org/Old/articles/science/hellfire.htm
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In this very finite life you've had the chance to believe and acting according it.
That reasoning does not work in practice since fate can place people in very disadvantageous situations where "finding out" is very improbable. The only rational and logical solution is to offer people multiple scenarios to act upon to be tested. Otherwise life is very unfair. You can test the hypothesis and see it is very probable case.
You see so many people in very dreadful situations. Why is that so? Is not everyone here on equal terms or is God unfair?
The answer is simple; people are facing the consequences of their past deeds. But they can always make a straight move to repent and reform.
Be well
Amenuel -
If God insist the whole of Qur'an in quite and proclaim that himself will not wrong anybody, when you attrbute to Him punishing people for eternity tel me if you are not insulting Him and laying onn what he says r tht He contradicts himself.
No because there is no injust punishment. Our definition of "justice" and "injustice" can't be relied to the divine meaning.
On he other hand how can you call anything eternal bu Got. Only God i eternal, anything ele can end any time and everthing will end any time and peole are nnot destined to paradie or hell eternally becaue as the Qur'a says repeatedly "ilayI al masir" to Him is our destiny. If our destiny would be hell or paradie he would say "to hell or paradise al masir".
Eternal is only God. Only God, eerything else is contingent and will end devolving back to Him. Read what the Qur'an DOES say.
Only God is eternal, it is true. But the Hell, although have a start, it does not have a end. Whe Allah say that we return to He, is clearly indicate that we will return to Him to taste or Paradise or Hell.
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That depends on linguistic interpretation, and Kh-Lam-Dal does not have that etymological background.
There are a higher percentage of definitions which speak of remain and continuous than implying on eternal. There is one single definition which say "endlessly", but that is because it implies on a continuous condition. Beyond logical deduction the probability is very high that it means "to remain".
Besides that please read my previous post about logical analysis. It is very improbable that it would imply eternity.
Be well
Amenuel -
The answer is simple; people are facing the consequences of their past deeds. But they can always make a straight move to repent and reform.
This is an islamic forum or a Buddhist one?
Where in the Qur'an it is written that God will test everyone in the same conditions? Maybe your test isn't the same than mine.
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Beyond logical deduction the probability is very high that it means "to remain".
And "to remain" for how long time ?
One day? yeah )
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No because there is no injust punishment. Our definition of "justice" and "injustice" can't be relied to the divine meaning.
Please test your argument empirically. It would be fairly illogical since it would be explicitly unfair to have people possess only one chance.
But the Hell, although have a start, it does not have a end. Whe Allah say that we return to He, is clearly indicate that we will return to Him to taste or Paradise or Hell.
What kind of positive outcome will Rabb have from that move? There is no development if people just remain in a non-changing environment. It shows a primitive nature of Rabb and like one who needs to delve into revenge. It is making Rabb very primitive.
The only logical explanation is two alternatives; either they have multiple chances of reformation or Rabb would simply delete them from existence. Every other alternative does not make sense from a logical viewpoint. However, of the two, only multiple opportunities would be fair.
My Rabb is a fair Rabb.
Be well
Amenuel -
And "to remain" for how long time ?
One day?
To remain for as long as necessary. Without rectification there is no way out.
Be well
Amenuel -
Please test your argument empirically. It would be fairly illogical since it would be explicitly unfair to have people possess only one chance.
But WE CAN'T make positive or empirical testing God!
HE test us, not the contrary!
We can't make, I repeat again, a positivist or empiric approach to His Logic !!
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But WE CAN'T make positive or empirical testing God!
HE test us, not the contrary!
We can't make, I repeat again, a positivist or empiric approach to His Logic !!
We cant make any approach to His logic neither poitivist nor empiric nor of any other kind, we have to believe wat He says or forget it. And He says He is just, fair, who will take ito account exactly everything we do and willnot wrong anybody, condemnig somebody eternally is to wrong somebody in the must unjust unfeir, cruel excessive way, and not only it is unjust but for a being who says and insist undendingly on his being utmost mercy and compassion, to punnish to the most horrible suffering another being eternally is pure crulty, not mercy. Itwould kee see to punishh, no question there, but eterally. Where is the need, does He need it does he exlai anywhere how that is a match for any human deed.
Al your proof f eternal hell is you decision, yours, and yours only that kh-l-d must be eternity, but again, how can anything other than God be eternal. Have you really thought thouroughly onn what eternity can be, we annot even conceive it forget make ay dogma out of it. So hell would be i a par with God existing eternally.
Salaam
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problems started when people take literal meanings of quran and unseen things,
all the people including me thinks that there will be a fire in which disbelievers will burn and screaming and this and that, what is azab for this life a carefree person commt crime and when law catch him , law punish him in jail its a big azab for him, as he stuck inside cant move freely,
when we do good in this world we get rewards , like einstien, billgates , prophets, some get rewards in money some in fame some in respect.
in hereafter hell is eternal mean azab/reward will be eternal untill it will reach the level of what every individual deserve,
Allah is very just in every single matter , may be he will trasform you into lava, or some fuel for energies that are revoloving arounf us, and for the righteous he grant us rewards what we wish in this world like he give exampples we will have gold braclets rivers of wine honey milk, garments of silk , luxuries on other words,
infact its just our circle of understanding totally subject to humanity,
Allah is eternal no doubt there were lot of worlds characters before us and there will be lot lot more after us, one need to understand, what God is saying in chapter 55 , Allah is engagged in matters every single day, what day not 24 hour definately, Allah have lot of things to do ,
problem is in our head we human always think we are some special beings , and everything is for us, its not a case.
hell/paradise definately not eternal but the people who are in paradise they are satisfied due to the level/grade /rank its a promise they will be in this state like some angles are, so they dnt need to worry about death test pain punishment, wheras the people who are in hell , Allah will give them azab/punishment of whatever azab they deserve, after that may be they will transform in to something or get a chance with fresh memories , but still a risk on their head,
but its definate to Allah we belong , and to Allah we will return,
think about lava inside the earth what it is,, may be generations of beings before us now they are providing fuel that also cause the spinning of earth, just an example,,,
Allah knows best, and sorry for commas
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To remain for as long as necessary. Without rectification there is no way out.
Be well
AmenuelNeither it will be.
But, unfortunately for me, due my inability to believe in jinns and in staff turned into snakes the Hell will be my last and eternal home.
You know, we have a Rabb so "rahman"... torture the people unable to believe in His paranormal stuff.
What a God !
Merciful... elektro yeah