Proof that the HELL IS ETERNAL
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I not remember enter into an agreement with Allah confused
so do i, i cant remember either,
but i beleive in the wording of book provided to us by God. 90 % stuff is proved to be true , rest of the 10% niether true nor false , my logic say its truebut at that time human being was not a thing to mention,
but before giving us this life infact character he showed us consequences he is fully just ,
all of us who will come till end took this offer, after that memories erased and i cant explain may be look at the verses may b it will help. if a examiner gives u a question paper with terms and conditions and after reading test you cannot say i m quiting , you can quit by giving ur exam it to the hands of teacher but make sure results will come , pass or fail ,God creates whatever He wills. God is capable of all things.? (2445)
?We have created mankind from a structure derived from mud.? (2312)
?And God made you grow from the Earth as plants. Then He returns you to it, and He brings you out totally?? (7117-1
?We have offered the trust to the heavens and the Earth, and the mountains, but they refused to bear it, and were fearful of it. But the human being accepted it; he was transgressing, ignorant.? (3372) look here now, offer
?And your Lord took for the children of Adam from their backs, their progeny; and He made them witness over themselves ?Am I not your Lord?? They said ?Yes, we bear witness.? Thus you cannot say on the Day of Resurrection that you were unaware of this.? (7172)
now its up to whether you grateful or ungrateful
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@ ammenuel
in the field of research everybody have their study i m not saying you wrong but its up to the evidences one need to look at every angle then decide where he stands,
in my views and research i have found some ideas of your are going against the teaching of quran whereas if we consider these ideas and fit it in your way of interpretaation whole sentce grammer and reason get disturbed,
in the case of jinns for example
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Imran,
The currently known grammar knowledge is completely disturbed. This is because some people fabricated based on conjecture what the tongue of Arabic said when they could not truly comprehend it properly.
My teaching is derived from Quran after reinterpretation. What I researched on confirms what Jesus teaches in the Biblical Gospels and this that we are to become angels, if we succeed the testing, part of God's realm, and we are seeds of God to be in His image. There is no separation but God is in us and we in God.
If you would doubt Quran's illogical interpretation you will find finer definitions to suit Arabic words in ancient lexicons that make better sense.
For many words, the majority of definitions actually testify for a completely different meaning than what is used for the sectarian version. An example is Kh-Lam-Dal where only one single definition actually loosely point at eternity.
The known grammar is contradictory. AL is used on a word like Shaytaan and claimed to be a proper noun (name), but a word with AL cannot be a proper noun. AL is used on Allah following the same logic, i.e. it is not a name.
If you like to use AL on a name in Arabic you need to write AL apart from the name as is the case with AL Feroun . It would be a grammatical error to prefix it with AL.
Be well
Amenuel -
And why I delved into logical analyses was because I wished to show the illogical nature of the sectarian interpretation of Quran in order to enhance my argumentation. Either Quran is a false writing invented by clerics or it is truly from God, but the sectarian interpretation is clearly not something you would expect to be from God. It was this indication that led me to begin researching, because I was not yet ready to give up on it. If I found no inconsistency I would have left Quran behind utterly and propagated against Islam altogether as a fabrication.
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280 And they said "The Fire will not touch us except for a number of days." Say "Have you taken a pledge with God? If so, then God will not break His pledge. Or do you say about God what you do not know?"
281 Indeed, whoever gains a sin, and is surrounded by his mistakes; those are the people of the Fire, in it they will abide.
282 And those who believe and do good works, they are the people of Paradise, in it they will abide.
A clear pointer I'd say.
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It would be, but the clerics working on the interpretation made that up in order to attack beliefs already in place which was not right according to their doctrine while completing ignoring what it is truly supposed to say. Actually it is correct that you stay in the "fire" for a number of days depending on what you make of yourself therein.
And you are in association with God if you are focused on what is correct.
That sectarian invention was used to zealously and dogmatically beat down on beliefs already in place.
Be well
Amenuel -
It would be, but the clerics working on the interpretation made that up in order to attack beliefs already in place which was not right according to their doctrine while completing ignoring what it is truly supposed to say. Actually it is correct that you stay in the "fire" for a number of days depending on what you make of yourself therein.
And you are in association with God if you are focused on what is correct.
That sectarian invention was used to zealously and dogmatically beat down on beliefs already in place.
Be well
AmenuelSalam;
Amenuel, I think you are inside the category of Philosophers, the Neo-Mu'tazili. I explain why I think this highlighting the statements that you and a past Mutazili scholar called Sayyid Ahmad Khan both shares. The article I will highlight came from an ultra-orthodox site http//www.mutazilah.com/articles/gswrrmz-sayyid-ahmad-khn-and-markazi-jamiat-e-ahle-hadees-hind.cfm
Sayyid Ahmad Khan, neo-Mu'tazili, Enemy of Islam
But who is Sayyid Ahmad Khan? He is a neo-Mu'tazili who tried to systematically demolish many of the symbols and foundations of Islam, attempting to forge a new type of Islam that does away with the Sunnah and in fact also does away with the Qur'an in essence, because he wanted to re-interpret the Qur'an to fit in with modernity, naturalism and scientism. Much has been written about this person and our intent here is just to summarize some of the main issues regarding him that are evident in numerous studies made of him.
In the book "Islam, Fundamentalism and the Betrayal of Tradition", the author, "Joseph E. B. Lumbard" has a section on Sayyid Ahmad Khan (pp. 84-90) and from which the following points can be extracted or deduced
Sayyid Ahmad Khan (1817-189 was a British-influenced thinker affected by notions of progress, civilization, rationalism and naturalism. He saw that adopting ways of the British was the way forward. 19th century British philosophy was a major reason why scientism (belief that science provides basis for truth and authority) brought about many hadeeth-rejecters and modernists from the Indian sub-continent.
Sayyid Ahmad's students include Altaf Hussain Hali (1914) Sayyid Amir Ali (192, Shibli Nu'mani (1914), and they cloaked Sayyid Ahmad's ideas in terms and forms that would appear less repugnant to Muslims.
Sayyid Ahmad Khan reformulated Islam by equating it with British though, with its rationalism and scientism. His major doctrine was that the identity betweeen British philosophy and Islam was the ultimate judge of truth and broad re-interpretation of Islam.
Sayyid Ahmad Khan wrote a tafsir called "Tahrir fi Usul al-Tafsir" which is a purely rationalistic interpretation of Islam.
There was a large rejection of his ideas at the time which came from different segments of the society, including the Deobandis, various other Muslim organizations and even fellow-modernists.Sayyid Ahmad Khan believed wahy (revelation) to be synonymous with reason and natural law, being its highest form. He believed that the name "Jibreel" is simply a term used to refer to this "revelation" (i.e. highest and most perfect reason and natural law).
He believed that prophethood is just a natural faculty and not a gift from Allaah and hence revelation is simply a natural phenomenon, just like other human faculties produce fruits then likewise prophethood is simply acquired through human faculties alone.
He was a denier of miracles and the reality of magic. And he believed that the matters of the unseen mentioned in the Qur'an (Jinn, Angels, the Hereafter etc.) cannot be opposed to scientific reality and thus must be given re-interpretations within those known scientific realities. As a result he began to say that "angels" are simply the "properties" of created things like the hardness of stone, the fluidity of water and so on. And that "angel" also means divine moral support. That "Shaytan" refers to the dark passions of man and that the "Jinn" are projections of evil, disease and other calamities (and not actual beings), but in some instances may refer to wild men living in forests and deserts.
His belief in Allaah was as deistic one (the world is sufficient evidence for Allah's existence but revelation is rejected as source and authority of religious knowledge - so Allaah, although creating the universe, is not concerned with it and does not send revelation and does not command or forbid and is simply uninterested in His creation, He is simply its primary cause and that is it). This led him to believe that prayer (du'a) cannot be heard.
He was a rejector of canonical books of Hadeeth, and he claimed all traditions opposing reason are to be rejected. Sayyid Ahmad Khan's rejection of hadeeth and likewise his students some of whom were more extreme in this rejection foreshadowed the opinions of Jewish Orientalists such as Joseph Schacht and Ignaz Goldhizer who claim that the ahaadeeth were later fabrications. As a result Sayyid Ahmad Khan set in motion a trend of doubting and rejecting many aspects of Islamic law, principles of fiqh, ijmaa' (consensus) and qiyas (analogy) - all of which followed on from the hadeeth.
This is just a small selection of the ideas of Sayyid Ahmad Khan and no doubt some of it is outright kufr. Other affairs documented about him is that riba (usury) is not forbidden when taken from affluent people, that the night-ascension of the Prophet (sallallaahu alayhi wasallam) was in a dream only, that Eesaa (alayhis salaam) did not give actual life to the dead, but only spiritual life and the list goes on and on.
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It would be, but the clerics working on the interpretation made that up in order to attack beliefs already in place which was not right according to their doctrine while completing ignoring what it is truly supposed to say. Actually it is correct that you stay in the "fire" for a number of days depending on what you make of yourself therein.
And you are in association with God if you are focused on what is correct.
That sectarian invention was used to zealously and dogmatically beat down on beliefs already in place.
Be well
AmenuelI don't mean to go off-topic but
Eh, no. But it does sound like you want the Quran to say something it doesn't because you have yet to present any hard evidence for your re-interpretation. No hard, direct references of lexical sources, not even the verse number reference of the few that you have re-translated and posted here.
In any case I think I have expressed my disagreement on your take.
I acknowledge though that you believe yourself to be divinely inspired and the only one in more than 1000 years to have understood the text even to the exclusion of the author/deliverer himself. You'll have to excuse some of us who don't buy that, especially without any observable evidence.
- The ideas you present apparently are the same rehash of christian paganism and idol worship - Jesus the son of God, (practically god) along with the divine saints (also gods) with their bibles, on the flip side, muslim paganism and idol worship - Muhammad the manifestation of god on earth (practically god) and his divine companions and scholars (also gods) with their hadith and sunnah books and we can move on to the jews and so on with the same concept, each trying to put God in themselves or trying to put themselves in God and regarding and erroneously ascribing a few among them as such (Jesus and Muhammad) - the idolization of human prophets - as well as human beings - true paganism.
Actually it is correct that you stay in the "fire" for a number of days depending on what you make of yourself therein
Exactly what the pagans and trinitarian christians used to say, and apparently still do. The Quran suggests otherwise.
Whether hell or heaven states/experiences/places are forever/never-ending, it is impossible to say, but one thing is clear according to the Quran - whoever will enter either of them, endures the length of the two states and there is no coming out.
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There is no coming ou of anywhere, because anywhere or anyhow we maybe there will also be God, eveyrthing will be uder God, nothing foreign to him or where He does not rule. And he does say many a time in the Qur?an that "ilahi el masir", no matter where we are where we go what we do "ilahi al massir". We are not lasting forever whether in hell or paradise, we ar not God, only God has God's attributes.
And God, as per Himself, is still just, rahmaan and rahim even after we die. Are we prescribing for Him what he will do with us or wht he will want or not? Are we disposign bout things we cannot evenn conceive of.
God does say that in the hereafter there will be more ranks and gradation than now, but we ourselves seem to know before hand how to hand out eternal this or that.
May God have mercy on us.
Also hell a few days... What? is that laughable. It is laughable of thoe whom the Qur'an ridicules because they make it like a few days of hell is nothing annd perfectly assumable but we do now that just a ew minutes of unbearable suffering is absoltely horrible and unassummable. The Qur'an is ridiculinng that swalow idiocy of those who said that. We do not eed any numer of days.Onne mminut of the unbearable is already too much for any sane min. That is why torture is such an unimaginable evil and why torturers are most hateful. Eternity of torture? What ick mindn can come up with that. I am all for making torturers become aware of how it feels tobe tortured and to feel that in the same way as they can be in the giving end thay can also be in the receiving end but eternally. ?For God's sake! If God was really like that and real I would have to accept it, but love HIM?
Wluld anybody love anybody who was capable of such rancour and cruelty?
Slaam
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?For God's sake!
Hermano, este forum no es espa?ol angel
I'm kidding.
Eternity of torture? What ick mindn can come up with that. I am all for making torturers become aware of how it feels tobe tortured and to feel that in the same way as they can be in the giving end thay can also be in the receiving end but eternally.
I have demonstrated that the Hell is inhabited by people that will dwelling therein forever.
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@ lostinworld
ghulam ahmed also have same understanding like sir syed ahmed khan regarding jinn , he claimed a different thing he said jinn was present before humankind and now they are not anymore , anywhere.
according to him jinns are just fictisious character like jenny of alladin,and he intrepret the whole story of solomon in his own understanding trust me it did not make any sense
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I do not see at all you have provedsuch a thing. Not at all. And aain you should show how that eternal cruelty matches God's justice and Mercy, which He absolutely affirms. And again what you say amounnts to affirming also that there are things beside gGd that are eternal.
Salaam
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@ lostinworld
ghulam ahmed also have same understanding like sir syed ahmed khan regarding jinn , he claimed a different thing he said jinn was present before humankind and now they are not anymore , anywhere.
according to him jinns are just fictisious character like jenny of alladin,and he intrepret the whole story of solomon in his own understanding trust me it did not make any sense
Alhambdulillah I'm not Ahmadi
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And again what you say amounnts to affirming also that there are things beside gGd that are eternal.
No. The Hell isn't eternal because he have a beginning, not like Allah who have not beginning neither end.
However, the Hell, although he have a beginning, he have not an end !
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And aain you should show how that eternal cruelty matches God's justice and Mercy, which He absolutely affirms.
There is no cruelty against disbelievers.
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@ lost inworld
i m talking about ghulam ahmed pervez not ghulam ahmed qadiayani -
@ lost inworld
i m talking about ghulam ahmed pervez not ghulam ahmed qadiayaniSorry, I misinterpreted. handshake
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There is no coming ou of anywhere, because anywhere or anyhow we maybe there will also be God, eveyrthing will be uder God, nothing foreign to him or where He does not rule. And he does say many a time in the Qur?an that "ilahi el masir", no matter where we are where we go what we do "ilahi al massir". We are not lasting forever whether in hell or paradise, we ar not God, only God has God's attributes.
And how do you reconcile the fact that we wouldn't coming out of anywhere and the fact that -according to you- we are not lasting forever nor in the hell neither in the paradise?
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@ huruf ,
i think its not about janna and hell, its about the grades again,
let me clear my concept , the grade which beleivers and righteous will get , it will be forever , in case of jannat/paradise they will saty there forever mean their grade ranking cant fell down, like no death, no pain, no cold no hot, no hungriness, something like that , same like a test if someone passed higher school he cant have to give exam again , he already passed so he labeled as passer ,
about hell , logic can understand it will not be eternal whatever crime anybody did there is a equal punishment and after that punishment they will sit on exam again, may be not sure but risk is still on their head,
but again when i think they will be asking for second chance but God willl say its too late,something is not clear we need to sit together on this issue , about paradise its confirm anyway , problem started when we think about unending torture , nobody really agree to acceppt this for even a worst enemy.
Allah knows best how he will deal with all these things, example of firooon,
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something is not clear we need to sit together on this issue , about paradise its confirm anyway , problem started when we think about unending torture , nobody really agree to acceppt this for even a worst enemy.
Allah knows best how he will deal with all these things, example of firooon,
No matter how good a disbeliever may seem on the surface in the life of this world, He or she is guilty of great crimes in the sight of Allah. All their actions in the world, though may seem good on the surface, comes to nothing as fitting punishment for not paying Allah's due. Had they devoted their actions to earn the pleasure of Allah and acknowledged and thanked Him for all His blessings, they would have been saved from the Fire of Hell. The believers enjoyed Allah's blessings on earth too, but they devoted themselves to Allah as well and observed His limits in the Qur'an. The disbelievers will be told on the Day of Judgment with regard to their state on earth
"That is because you wrongfully enjoyed and rejoiced on earth. Enter the gates of Hell, there to remain - an evil home for the arrogant." (Qur'an 4075-76)
source http//www.quranicpath.com/quranicpath/legitimate_consumers.html