Fasting in North Pole
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Of course, but if you're asking that it becomes the question if the Qur'an is supposed to be for all mankind or not.
And Quran is a manifestation to all.
People cannot have normal lives with full night of sleeping during summer in Sweden. One must go up praying at maybe 2-3 am at worst and then having gone to bed after 10pm. The timings are not working in that part of the world based on the sun.
And according to me it would be obvious one rises from sleep after having performed a morning prayer in order to focus on what they just prayed. But that perhaps does not matter for those who mumble the same words day in and day out.
Be well
Amenuel -
And Quran is a manifestation to all.
People cannot have normal lives with full night of sleeping during summer in Sweden. One must go up praying at maybe 2-3 am at worst and then having gone to bed after 10pm. The timings are not working in that part of the world based on the sun.
And according to me it would be obvious one rises from sleep after having performed a morning prayer in order to focus on what they just prayed. But that perhaps does not matter for those who mumble the same words day in and day out.
Be well
AmenuelI guess it would depend on the person, but yes it is a concern if we're addressing a physical ritualistic prayer.
Some people are able to get back to sleep relatively easily, even if they have woken enough to have clear thought for a few minutes. Others, however, have much difficulty getting back to sleep.
And then of course you have people who do or would prefer to stay up until the morning prayer before sleeping for the first time.
It's something to ponder about for sure. I'm not sure how many Muslims do it.
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Interrupted sleep is not good when you interrupt sleep cycles. It is very likely if you use an alarm very early in the morning without sufficient sleep so far. It does not really help to go to bed again because you will not easily reenter the same stage. This is why people who are awakened once or more times during the night report to have slept worse.
It would be wisest to plan sleep in order to go up at the time of prayer and start the new day. That way it gives the prayer more meaning too as you can reflect upon what you uttered in prayer.
Be well
Amenuel -
peace guys, happy eid to all of you sorry i was busy with my family .. anyway..
Peace Imran,
Perhaps my phrasing was not clear.
What is the classical Arabic dictionary meaning of al-fajr and al-3isha?
What is the meaning of al-fajr and al-3isha as per quranic usage?
How would you apply the quranic meanings when there is full month of darkness with no sun?You are in Longyearbyen, Svalbard, Norway at 78 degrees latitude. You have been living there all your life. You are healthy and able to fast without any difficulty. You witnessed the (full or new) moon to start fasting (whatever your interpretation is). How would you determine when your fast will start in morning? When will you end your fast?
How would you establish salat in Longyearbyen, Svalbard, Norway in January of next year?
Peace
well now i understand actually what you want to ask,,
my brother i m not sure the information which i m giving you will help you or not but i think its a good start including me who are dealing with this issue inshallah lets talk about it with other members we will discuss it in detail
infact. the history of scandavia. we will discuss later first we need to understand the time of revelation is about 632 ad somewhere the new faith system started what people call new religion which infact was not, it was the correction of old and a law in book preserved for all the nations that have to come after it.. so at that time if we think the law followers of the book was not in scandavia its true becoz not even the law followers at that time there is no evidence of any human colnisation was found in anypart of scandavia..
the first set of civilisation just a little bit was found near about 9 th century ad and after 1300 ad the christanity and cathlosim crumbled and till date there is no any direct involment in the gov issues by any new law follower in scandavia..
anyway its the issue of timeless book when we think like that , however at that time there is no colony of scandavia for any nation but some muslims now a days still living there how can they perform and did God was not aware about it...
now its the question of philosphy or something if we make colony in moon the day lasting fourteen days on some part of moon.. how we will perform rituals,,
according to philosphy rituals have different views from different people some say its physical some say innerside that matters ,both have their evidences..
its not a easy cup of tea this subject of scandavia need to sort out properly with respect to all the historical and logical analysis as welll as scientific knowledge what we have today regarding the poling system of sunrise and sunset..
peace
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the first set of civilisation just a little bit was found near about 9 th century ad and after 1300 ad the christanity and cathlosim crumbled and till date there is no any direct involment in the gov issues by any new law follower in scandavia..
Could you clarify this please... perhaps with a reference.
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we do remember the quran was not revealed to people in the north pole right?
Agreed.
There is no "people of the North pole" anyway. And not on the moon either. But,
To whom was it revealed then, if not to everyone on Earth?
How do we define this group to whom it was revealed?
Is it to a certain people in time, or only certain people of a geographic region, or only to those who have the same climate, or only to beduins, or only to arabic speaking people, or only those at similar latitude regardless of longitudinal location???To whom was it revealed? What defines the group to whom it was revealed?
Perhaps it was only to the tribe of the messenger? In that case we should scrap it immediately as it then is both outdated and non-applicable to 99.999% of Earth's population.O0
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Standing, bowing and prostrating are straight forward unless
mental gymnastics concur otherwise.Yes, that's one interpretation.
True, but it does not say at which location that
"the white thread become distinguishable from the black thread" hmmSo you are basically saying that the Quran is not applicable to all Earth?
Why then follow other instructions, if some instruction are applicable only at certain times.? Note, we are not talking about typical exceptions. We are talking about nature, which is highly regular.
I disagree, sometimes we must use our brains yes If we want to make salat
and have physical difficulties or would like to fast we but the location presents
problems we must think within the bounds of Islam.-
How does the amount of light on the sky create problems to fast?? Is light of the sky a critical factor of fasting?? What's the crucial connection/relationship between light and fasting that makes amount of light decide go or no-go for fasting??
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"Within the bounds of Islam"?? What Islam are we talking about? I thought Islam was defined by the Quran/Furqan. Is the Quran supposed to be interpreted in the light of Islam? What shapes Islam then? Bukhari?
Allah has not forbidden us to fast with other regions yes problem solved
Not relevant. Problem not solved. Religion fails and problem gets ignored.
We may fast as much as we want during the year. You may fast 3 months if you wish. No prohibition.If we are unable to solve a math equation, we cannot just take a rubber and erase some numbers or operators to make the difficulty go away. hmm
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Yes, that's one interpretation.
I agree, it is no. 1 i.e., the best interpretation )
So you are basically saying that the Quran is not applicable to all Earth?
nope I am saying the Quran gives guidelines, for those who understand.
Why then follow other instructions, if some instruction are applicable only at certain times.? Note, we are not talking about typical exceptions. We are talking about nature, which is highly regular.
Here is the crux of your argument, it not about nature but about fasting! yes
Please give your opinion regarding how to fast on the north pole.
police
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peace, if i recall correctly, god informs us that 'to each/every community we send a messenger' and 'to each of you we have decreed a set of rites'
the quran itself was revealed to prophet muhammad and his community, it addresses the jews, christians and polytheists of the time, the quran is also a message to all manking, good news for trusters and a warning.
god knows what the sun does and who lives where, along with all things. what is most important is intention and deed, regularly and reverantly maintain salat and dhikrullah. he informs us that he does not intend hardship for us, if we are unable to preform the decreed or recommended deeds as instructed in the quran, this is evidently a test, and its up to us to do our best and seek gods guidance.
peace
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peace, if i recall correctly, god informs us that 'to each/every community we send a messenger' and 'to each of you we have decreed a set of rites'
the quran itself was revealed to prophet muhammad and his community, it addresses the jews, christians and polytheists of the time, the quran is also a message to all manking, good news for trusters and a warning.
god knows what the sun does and who lives where, along with all things. what is most important is intention and deed, regularly and reverantly maintain salat and dhikrullah. he informs us that he does not intend hardship for us, if we are unable to preform the decreed or recommended deeds as instructed in the quran, this is evidently a test, and its up to us to do our best and seek gods guidance.
peace
Well said, "what is most important is intention and deed"
peace
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Please give your opinion regarding how to fast on the north pole.
I don't know. But, if fasting is as we traditionally know it, then autumn equinox would perhaps be a good time in terms of light.
I was interested if anyone else has pondered the issue I raised. But it doesn't seem like that. Either people are not affected by it, or those who are completely following tradition.In any case, if the intention is the most important, then there would really be no issue to do the fasting when the light agrees better with what is written in the Quran. But like I said, I don't know what the truth is in this case.
Peace
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Somebody has commented to me that Ramadan is the month of the autumn rains and used to fall always at around eptember due to the inteclaatio month. That matches the equinox, which to me is very sensible and does away with all the complication of impossible long nights or long daylight. I really think that is what makes sense to me. And I would stick to that.
Salaam
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Peace.
i think that we should not be following that which we have no knowledge of, based on others opinions, observations, or comments, unless there is clear proof that it conforms with gods scriptures. anything beyond this, i think it is up to us to ask for guidance, and follow it once we are certain, and do what best we can.
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And do not follow/pursue after that which you have no knowledge of. Indeed the hearing, the sight, and the heart/soul, all of those are questioned regarding it.
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And whoever divides from the messenger after what has become evident to him of the guidance, and he follows/continues on other than the way of the believers, we will turn him to what he has turned to, and we will expose him/burn him/throw him in hell. and it is an evil destination.
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And when those who are trusting in our verses/signs come to you, then say 'peace be upon you', your lord prescribed upon himself the mercy, that he who does evil in ignorance, then returns/repents from it afterwards, and has reformed, then indeed he is mercifuly forgiving
let us remember, if god has willed, that we are only responsible for following what we have knowledge of, and what has become clear/evident to us, if we have no knowledge or the guidance has not become manifest to us, or if we make errors out of ignorance, but afterwards we correct ourselves and do what is righteous, then i believe god is forgiving and merciful, and will, if he so wills, forgive us.
many people here say ramadhan is this or that, or it should be this and that, or the earth is this or that, or whatever, the point is this is conjecture, and we should not follow it.
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And if you obey many/most of who is in the earth, they will lead you to darkness away from the path of god, they do not follow except their assumptions/their own thoughts, indeed your lord is well aware of who is in darkness away from his path, and he is well aware of the ones with the guidance.
Peace, just a reminded for those who would be reminded, including myself, let us follow the clear proof and evident signs of our lord, and not our own conjectures
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Follow that which is logical, sound.
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The point Timoteus is that inthe matter of Ramadan nobody seems to know with certainty wht is intended in the Qur'an. Nobody as far as I knnow is following his or her own conjectures over what the Qur'an says but rather trying to ascertain what it is that it says. And the reason for that is that what is certain is that the current state fo affair is far from being satisfactory as to what indeed is itended in the Qur'an. To sugguest as you do hat there are some that are willing to follow their own conjectures instead os what the Qur'an says or to hear anybody's opinions over what the Qur'an says, seems to suggest that indeed YOU are sure of what the Qur'an says and therefore in a position to judge as mere conjectures or other's opinions what other people arrive at as the most satisfactory conclusion for their understanding. If you do have such certainty and self assuredness as to how and at which time of the year everywhere on the earth should be fasting upheld.
If you have such certainty make it clear to us so that we might all benefit, even if your opinion, finlaly would be just another's opinion and no better than anybody else and no guranty that you undertand the Qur'n on that count better than others.
Salaam
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The point Timoteus is that inthe matter of Ramadan nobody seems to know with certainty wht is intended in the Qur'an. Nobody as far as I knnow is following his or her own conjectures over what the Qur'an says but rather trying to ascertain what it is that it says. And the reason for that is that what is certain is that the current state fo affair is far from being satisfactory as to what indeed is itended in the Qur'an. To sugguest as you do hat there are some that are willing to follow their own conjectures instead os what the Qur'an says or to hear anybody's opinions over what the Qur'an says, seems to suggest that indeed YOU are sure of what the Qur'an says and therefore in a position to judge as mere conjectures or other's opinions what other people arrive at as the most satisfactory conclusion for their understanding. If you do have such certainty and self assuredness as to how and at which time of the year everywhere on the earth should be fasting upheld.
If you have such certainty make it clear to us so that we might all benefit, even if your opinion, finlaly would be just another's opinion and no better than anybody else and no guranty that you undertand the Qur'n on that count better than others.
Salaam
Peace
I have already explained in my previous post, in my understanding, if there is no clear proof for something, or if we do not have a certain understanding, we are not to uphold it. I am not saying that i have the answer, i am saying unless there is clear matter from God, then all it is is conjecture.. the quran was revealed in a place and time, which they probably knew exactly what ramadhan was.. i do not, i have no knowledge of it, apart from that god says the quran was revealed in the moon of ramadhan, and he tells us to fast in it. beyond that i do not have knowledge of it, and god instructs us to not uphold what we do not have knowledge of...
please see my previous post. I am not trying to say follow me, or anyone else, in fact im saying dont! im trying to say, we should be following God, and if we do not know. we should seek his assistance, and do the best we can to uphold his commandments, but untill we know, he tells us not to follow those things, in my understanding
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So you are telling us nothing new, we know that, the whole point seemsto elude you. It is not a matter of upholding aything at all, but a mattr of to fast or not to fast. Abviously there is a fast of a month of Ramadan, the whole point is when that is, you cannot say do not uphold anything or uphold anything in this case, it is ot a matter of upholding but of fasting or not fasting and when to fast. You cannot fast an abstract period. That does ot exist you fast in a concrete period, so which period is that and how do you fixt it TO FAST, not to uphold this or that, TO FAST.
To peculate you do not need to fix a period, to fast you have too or you do not fast. So that is the question.
I do not see anything that contradicts the equinox setting more that anything else and it certainly simplify enormously the question of fixing the eriod for FASTING, not for upholding, but FOR FASTING.
As it happens ramadan i the ninth month, starting from the winter solstice, so in fact it falls in september en the old calendar with the intercalation month. There is nothing arbitrary in that and it would have to be proved that that is not so in order to say that fating ramadan in that part of the year is wrong. The fact that it is done today by the vast majority of "muslims" is it any proof?And it would solve many problems for people who are in extreme latitudes.
Salaam
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So you are telling us nothing new, we know that, the whole point seemsto elude you. It is not a matter of upholding aything at all, but a mattr of to fast or not to fast. Abviously there is a fast of a month of Ramadan, the whole point is when that is, you cannot say do not uphold anything or uphold anything in this case, it is ot a matter of upholding but of fasting or not fasting and when to fast. You cannot fast an abstract period. That does ot exist you fast in a concrete period, so which period is that and how do you fixt it TO FAST, not to uphold this or that, TO FAST.
To peculate you do not need to fix a period, to fast you have too or you do not fast. So that is the question.
I do not see anything that contradicts the equinox setting more that anything else and it certainly simplify enormously the question of fixing the eriod for FASTING, not for upholding, but FOR FASTING.
As it happens ramadan i the ninth month, starting from the winter solstice, so in fact it falls in september en the old calendar with the intercalation month. There is nothing arbitrary in that and it would have to be proved that that is not so in order to say that fating ramadan in that part of the year is wrong. The fact that it is done today by the vast majority of "muslims" is it any proof?And it would solve many problems for people who are in extreme latitudes.
Salaam
no im not saying anything new, apart from, if anyone here has any clear evidence, relevant research, then please present it!!
" you cannot say do not uphold anything or uphold anything in this case, "
Im not, i am simply sharing my understanding of the Quranic text, which god has revealed.
for all your CAPITOLS emphasizing fasting, you do realize that you can fast any time? fast every day then you wont miss ramadhan..
let us not be like the hypocrite rabbis at the time of jesus, or like we now have with people who follow hadiths etc, who are so concerned with following the law to the exact letter that they actualy miss the important parts of it!
If there is not a clear matter in the quran, we should, of course seek the truth of it, but we must also remember what is most important, and emphasized again and again in the quran, which is imaan, salat and zakah, and striving for our lord always, not just on one day, or one month. this is evidently a test