A fatwa from islamQA

heavyknight3285

In regards to Salafism- Saudi funds all of it.. the reason more moderate views are disregarded is because it doesn't fall within the Saudi agenda of Salafi/Wahabbi Islam and Saudi can buy it out or pay for their agenda to be presented. I read a book provided by a more liberal author who presented information about how Saudi and Iran were in competition with each other because Iran initially was the big publisher on Islamic materials and books/Resources related to Islam, but the books were of course presented Shia beliefs and taught Shia principles and doctrine. Sunni's and Salafi's were totally against the Iranian agenda, so the muslim brotherhood started a book revolution and then later taken over by Salafi's- Saudi began to engage in funding, supporting and publishing Islamic books and materials and sort of bought out and monopolized the Islamic book and resources industry.

All of the traditionalist books available through Islamic bookstores, the book all push for and support the Salafi methodology in obvious and not so obvious ways.

parvez_mushtaq

Hi Parvez,

Why are they still in the book if they are abrogated, what purpose do they have now?

yes ,your question is very sensible , Ben
As per ibn katir

This honorable Ayah (95) was called the Ayah of the Sword, about which Ad-Dahhak bin Muzahim said, "It abrogated every agreement of peace between the Prophet and any idolator, every treaty, and every term.''

And Ad-Dahhak bin Muzahim was a tafsir scholar of 106AH.So if the Muslims after our prophet had this type of understanding for this ayah then they would have killed every mushrik they met but on contrary there was The "dhimma contract" almost through out the Muslim history of sharia

parvez_mushtaq

I have indeed some alternative understandings on some subjects, but what could be my agenda?

Tell me your "alternative understanding on some subjects " we will decide about the agenda after that

good_logic

Peace parvez.
Thank you for your reply.

Now since you say,quote

lol, i am not supporting them ,GL

Then there is nothing further to discuss
.I have already explained the verses refer to the "Mushrikeen" at the time of the prophet who betrayed their treaty.
Let us not waste our time discussing "salafi" ideology.
You and I are not going to guide them. Why are you wasting your time and ours discussing something you do not support?
I am simply not interested.. Thank you brother.
GOD bless you.
Peace.

imrankhawaja

i think , i can understand whats in the mind of pervaiz lol ..

he think salafi and quranist determine the true islam.. isnt it..

but as per my understanding true religion is defined by the one who is the the lord of universe instead of seeking truth in sectors we should seek truth in the book of lord... thats what logic and reason tell us...

God bless you all

Bender

yes ,your question is very sensible , Ben
As per ibn katir
And Ad-Dahhak bin Muzahim was a tafsir scholar of 106AH.So if the Muslims after our prophet had this type of understanding for this ayah then they would have killed every mushrik they met but on contrary there was The "dhimma contract" almost through out the Muslim history of sharia

RED So they would begin with themselves I guess

Bender

Tell me your "alternative understanding on some subjects " we will decide about the agenda after that

The only agenda I have is that whenever my time comes I will be ready to face my Creator.

Novice

kafir by defination is who dnt beleive in God of universe..

Brother imran root meaning of kafir is one who hides. A farmer is also called kafir because he hides seed in the soil. As such kafir is one who knows truth but hides it.

Salam

reel

Prove it Reel
but reel ,satan is not real but a scriptural figure who , as per Quran ,whisper human do to the acts that he wants .as a matter of fact no one has ever met him physically

There are people in my family who worship satan. There are people around the world who do it also. They are known as satanist. Whether he is the real satan is not known to me. However, I do know there is a set of rules and rituals these people follow. They also have symbols which they use as signals for their kinds. They do this because they wont be spared by others who frown upon satan worship. I must say that such symbols are heavily used by peace tv and zakir naik. He is popularizing one at the moment. I will post them as soon as I get time. I will do it for others of course since as a fan of his, you won't see anything wrong with it. And yeah, as the page showed, they are following pharaoh's laws. Now what they are can be found right in the Quran. If you are reading the Book it should not be difficult for you to see them.

lol , reeal
it is almost a year by now and i am very clear about few facts here
for example , sajood is not the one you have here on this forum .beyond any doubt , the sujood is physical .Islam is not the one that Quranist think neither it is one that salafi preach .I think you have a very long way to recognize the true Islam

Almost a year has not helped anyone here to know the people of the Quran and their studying of Quranic words.

Your belief in abrogation of the verses, blind faith in scholars, throwing of Allah out of reality, cherry picking verses to make your "Islamic" practice and beyond show you don't know the Islam Allah told mankind to follow. And of course, there is no point discussing with you what "true" Islam is since you have shown in several places that you prefer blind faith instead of using eyes, hands, brain, legs, connecting with God in the mind for guidance, etc.

imrankhawaja

Brother imran root meaning of kafir is one who hides. A farmer is also called kafir because he hides seed in the soil. As such kafir is one who knows truth but hides it.

Salam

peace , novoice...

i think i prefer to tell things in easy mode ...

anyway i will add .. the defination you told me suits to advance kafir like pharaoh and abraham era (king) who already know the truth but hide it due to ego....everybody is not advance kafir like common athiest... he dnt know what God is but he still disbeleive...

advance disbeleiver or denier would be suitable interpretation .. or did you see any body interpret as a hider let me know plz.. it would be a great news that there are still some people using root words with honesty... handshake

God bless you

imrankhawaja

A farmer is also called kafir because he hides seed in the soil.

Salam

this example is incredible... am i also a kaffir? becoz i hide books from my mates. i hide money in bank ...

is there is any more non-kaffir left in this world...

reel

they are still serving it...

satan is successful in making their path distract ... traditiobnal muslim think its abdul qadir jilani who derived out ships from sea

interestingly he himself never claim anything like this...

and moreover even if he claim they forget the verse 31/32-33...

and who is more wicked than a person who seek anything beside God...

its just one person i know lot of these saints how they are being worshipped by millions of traditional muslims...

another example is data gang bkhash people claimed he is the god of provisions astagfirullah.. and how they proved ,, they said its thousands of people come everyday on his tomb and get food from there,, its a famous place in famous city lahore... called data sahib..

and lot more these type of stuff.. like ,, god of food, good of ships, god of snakes , god of problem solving,

peace

Satan seems to be a great friend of naik. Take a look at this https//3.bp.blogspot.com/-zMsJnYacVKs/V5n6ZF2ez3I/AAAAAAAAAUA/DrEIeQqRMPkDsbu7wIer3GAIrQdowTx9QCLcB/s1600/naik-satanic-zionist.png

One of the most interesting things is that all these scholars blame one another of misguiding Muslims.

imrankhawaja

Satan seems to be a great friend of naik. Take a look at this https//3.bp.blogspot.com/-zMsJnYacVKs/V5n6ZF2ez3I/AAAAAAAAAUA/DrEIeQqRMPkDsbu7wIer3GAIrQdowTx9QCLcB/s1600/naik-satanic-zionist.png

One of the most interesting things is that all these scholars blame one another of misguiding Muslims.

lol may b its a joke ... or consprisy theory ,, rotfl rotfl

parvez_mushtaq

Assalamualaikum Rahamatullahi Wabarakathahu
The fatwa of ismalQA has taken the abrogation in literal sense
https//islamqa.info/en/34770
But if we take the abrogation in terminological sense it gives a entirely different meaning and no doubt ,our ancestors had taken only these sense of abrogation .it proves that Islam is far better than secularism in all aspects .

When science was with Muslims, no Muslim scientist ever question the divinity of Quran .on the other hand, both Quran and hadith empathized Muslims to acquire knowledge. The Muslim rulers gave full cooperation to the scientist in their inventions and discoveries .so Islam was/is secular for inventions and discoveries.

When the same science went into the hands of Christians The divinity of the bible was questioned and the scientist and reformist were threaten as well as punished by the church and church was a big hindrance to their development .the final outcome between those two conflicts was the term secularism .it was a very clear cut compromise by the scientist and the church .the bible was declared as man made book as it cannot solve their social problems as well as it was proved sciencetifically fallible .In order to save church interest the thinkers, reformist and scientist brought the term secularism as a patch and cover the flaws of bible.

The same term is often used against Quran and the best example given is the verse 09.05
Verse 9.05
And when the sacred months have passed, then kill the polytheists wherever you find them and capture them and besiege them and sit in wait for them at every place of ambush. But if they should repent, establish prayer, and give zakah, let them on their way. Indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful.

It is always highlighted that sharia law restrict the coexistence of other religion in the state .let me investigate the religious freedom in Quran.

The first verse that came to my mind is
Verse 2213
Mankind was one religion ; then Allah sent the prophets as bringers of good tidings and warners and sent down with them the Scripture in truth to judge between the people concerning that in which they differed. And none differed over the Scripture except those who were given it - after the clear proofs came to them - out of jealous animosity among themselves. And Allah guided those who believed to the truth concerning that over which they had differed, by His permission. And Allah guides whom He wills to a straight path.

It is clear from this verse the source of all religions is one
Further
Verse 4.164
And messengers about whom We have related to you before and messengers about whom We have not related to you. And Allah spoke to Moses with speech

Says there were lot of prophets
And the
verse 5.48
And We have revealed to you, , the Book in truth, confirming that which preceded it of the Scripture and as a criterion over it. So judge between them by what Allah has revealed and do not follow their inclinations away from what has come to you of the truth. To each of you We prescribed a law and a method. Had Allah willed, He would have made you one nation , but to test you in what He has given you; so race to good. To Allah is your return all together, and He will inform you concerning that over which you used to differ.
All the nations were given a law as well as a method meaning a scripture and the rituals. So it is evident from the above verses that Quran accepts the fact that there were/are many religions as well as rituals

The originator of all the religions even commands his people to follow their respective scriptures
Verse 5.68
Say, "O People of the Scripture, you are on nothing until you uphold the Torah, the Gospel, and what has been revealed to you from your Lord." And that which has been revealed to you from your Lord will surely increase many of them in transgression and disbelief. So do not grieve over the disbelieving people.

And the originator also guarantees his acceptance of their faith in verse 2.62 and 5.69

Finally,
He instruct us to be just with them and maintain the decorum in terms of agreement in
verse 60.08
Allah does not forbid you from those who do not fight you because of religion and do not expel you from your homes - from being righteous toward them and acting justly toward them. Indeed, Allah loves those who act justly.

The final outcome of my investigation is

The source of all religion is one
Anyone can uphold and follow his religion and his rituals
Muslims should respect every faith and live in good faith and conduct

If we take the verse 9.05 in literal sense of abrogation then we should think all the above verses was abrogated and every Muslim should fight with non Muslim .but, entire Muslim history reveals that every religion in the past was given the equal status by each and every Muslim ruler .I conclude that the abrogation of verse 9.05 should be taken in terminological sense as taken by our ancestors instead of literal sense as taken in the fatwa of islamQA .As a proof of my investigation i request you to read the following link carefully
about Dhimmi
https//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dhimmi#The_.22dhimma_contract.22
To justify my heading , I finally conclude that Islam is much better than secularism because it never imposes its laws upon the people belonging to other religions and at the same time it keeps the society clean with high moral values which are very much absent in the present secular society

parvez_mushtaq

Peace parvez.
Thank you for your reply.

Now since you say,quote

lol, i am not supporting them ,GL

Then there is nothing further to discuss
.I have already explained the verses refer to the "Mushrikeen" at the time of the prophet who betrayed their treaty.
Let us not waste our time discussing "salafi" ideology.
You and I are not going to guide them. Why are you wasting your time and ours discussing something you do not support?
I am simply not interested.. Thank you brother.
GOD bless you.
Peace.

My original aim was not about discussing that fatwa ,GL
I was working on this article(click here) for the past one week and i got stuck in the middle because i felt this fatwa also got some justification but after this discussion on this thread i got very clear about my article and this discussion helped me in completing my article. i sincerely thank you for helping me ,GL

parvez_mushtaq

RED So they would begin with themselves I guess

Few of them already have started .this is the consequence of the stupid opinion of the scholars
In this tread, i have proved they are wrong ,Ben
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9608730.msg392582#msg392582

parvez_mushtaq

There are people in my family who worship satan. There are people around the world who do it also. They are known as satanist. Whether he is the real satan is not known to me. However, I do know there is a set of rules and rituals these people follow. They also have symbols which they use as signals for their kinds. They do this because they wont be spared by others who frown upon satan worship. I must say that such symbols are heavily used by peace tv and zakir naik. He is popularizing one at the moment. I will post them as soon as I get time. I will do it for others of course since as a fan of his, you won't see anything wrong with it. And yeah, as the page showed, they are following pharaoh's laws. Now what they are can be found right in the Quran. If you are reading the Book it should not be difficult for you to see them.
Almost a year has not helped anyone here to know the people of the Quran and their studying of Quranic words.

Your belief in abrogation of the verses, blind faith in scholars, throwing of Allah out of reality, cherry picking verses to make your "Islamic" practice and beyond show you don't know the Islam Allah told mankind to follow. And of course, there is no point discussing with you what "true" Islam is since you have shown in several places that you prefer blind faith instead of using eyes, hands, brain, legs, connecting with God in the mind for guidance, etc.

Quran got much larger meaning than you think ,Reel
it advocates every religion with its rituals on the face of the earth .don't be a fanatic about your perception .come out it and witness the real picture .
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9608730.msg392582#msg392582
Reel pl become REAL

Bender

this example is incredible... am i also a kaffir? becoz i hide books from my mates. i hide money in bank ...

is there is any more non-kaffir left in this world...

I find that definition also very weak.
Sometimes it's better to hide the truth, would be cruel to tell a child he/she made an awful painting.
And there are a billion other examples where its not done to tell the truth.

Satan seems to be a great friend of naik. Take a look at this https//3.bp.blogspot.com/-zMsJnYacVKs/V5n6ZF2ez3I/AAAAAAAAAUA/DrEIeQqRMPkDsbu7wIer3GAIrQdowTx9QCLcB/s1600/naik-satanic-zionist.png

Must be a joke no?

Few of them already have started .this is the consequence of the stupid opinion of the scholars
In this tread, i have proved they are wrong ,Ben
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9608730.msg392582#msg392582

What do you mean with this Parvez "But if we take the abrogation in terminological sense it gives a entirely different meaning and no doubt ,our ancestors had taken only these sense of abrogation"

imrankhawaja

I find that definition also very weak.
Sometimes it's better to hide the truth, would be cruel to tell a child he/she made an awful painting.
And there are a billion other examples where its not done to tell the truth.

exactly ,,, thats why i also give two examples to him.. peace

former is kaffir omg becoz he hide seed rotfl

reel

Quran got much larger meaning than you think ,Reel
it advocates every religion with its rituals on the face of the earth .don't be a fanatic about your perception .come out it and witness the real picture .
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9608730.msg392582#msg392582
Reel pl become REAL

Did I mention anything about rituals of other major religions in my post?

Must be a joke no?

lol may b its a joke ... or consprisy theory ,,

Nay, the guy who started the salafi movement was a freemason. He was also the first guy to open a lodge in Egypt. He was the grand master freemason. Now imagine how many humans he sacrificed to reach that degree. Naik's money comes apparently from mysterious foreign sources of Saudi, Britain and some other middle eastern countries.