A fatwa from islamQA
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I am in tears that you have called me fanatic about this Islam of brain and heart use. I am speechless that I am able to demonstrate that I stand against the evil of blind faith and terrorism of fake scholars.
Nice profile picture , Reel
anyway
As per you a jew who never had access to quran will burn in hell .if your answer is "yes" then i am sorry to say you got the wrong message of quran .if your answer is "NO" then whatever you said about salafi is wrong because ALLAH subahnavtala never gave us that right we are not here to decide about others
Do you want become an example for this verse
Verse 2.213
Mankind was one religion ; then Allah sent the prophets as bringers of good tidings and warners and sent down with them the Scripture in truth to judge between the people concerning that in which they differed. And none differed over the Scripture except those who were given it - after the clear proofs came to them - out of jealous animosity among themselves. And Allah guided those who believed to the truth concerning that over which they had differed, by His permission. And Allah guides whom He wills to a straight path.How cutely you skip verses and brain use to form your conclusion and how such conclusion leads to killing of pregnant nonMuslims. Sad!
I want your calcification about two things
1.can you list the verses i left
2.How my conclusion will lead to the killing of non Muslims -
In his link (click),Mazhar bhai has given translation of the Verse 2.106 as below
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/temp%2002%20%202.106a.gif
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/temp%2002%20%202.106b.gif
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/temp%2002%20%202.106c.gifShould We intend to reposition-relocate segment of an Ayah verbal unitary passage or an Ayah unitary passage by retaining it as such We would thereby bring-impose thereat a better suited text than that or Ayah resembling that.
Have you not yet realized that Allah the Exalted has eternally the infinite adjusting command and control over each and all things.
Simultaneously ,Mazhar bhai has given the translation of Verse 16.101 also
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/016.%20An%20Nahl/16.101q.gif
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/016.%20An%20Nahl/16.101p.gif
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/016.%20An%20Nahl/16.101q.gif
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/016.%20An%20Nahl/Temp%2001%2016.101b.gifAnd when We changed-shifted the textual location of an Ayah to location of another Ayah
While Allah the Exalted fully knows about that which He the Exalted is gradually revealing,
They-the non believing ruling elite alleged "You are indeed one who diligently manipulates-redrafts the text".
No, you have not sequenced-redrafted-organized it, but the fact of the matter is that most of them do not understand it.
But the most of the translation read as below (for example sahih international )
Verse 2.106
We do not abrogate a verse or cause it to be forgotten except that We bring forth better than it or similar to it. Do you not know that Allah is over all things competent?i request Mazhar bhai to explain his translation
Thanks in advance -
Nice profile picture , Reel
anyway
As per you a jew who never had access to quran will burn in hell .if your answer is "yes" then i am sorry to say you got the wrong message of quran .Can you provide proof of the above statement? Where did I make such comment about the Jews?
Do you want become an example for this verse
Verse 2.213
Mankind was one religion ; then Allah sent the prophets as bringers of good tidings and warners and sent down with them the Scripture in truth to judge between the people concerning that in which they differed. And none differed over the Scripture except those who were given it - after the clear proofs came to them - out of jealous animosity among themselves. And Allah guided those who believed to the truth concerning that over which they had differed, by His permission. And Allah guides whom He wills to a straight path. I want your calcification about two things
1.can you list the verses i left
2.How my conclusion will lead to the killing of non MuslimsRead your earlier posts in which you said GL unknowingly abrogated Quran verse.
Secondly, google THE RULING ON JIHAD AND ITS DIVISIONS. It comes from your salafi bosses.
Third, those who believe in hadiths pretty much indirectly contribute to terrorism. In a buffet restaurant, one can eat whatever dish he likes. In other words, just because some sectarians don't follow the gruesome hadiths doesn't mean they are not being followed by other sectarians.if your answer is "NO" then whatever you said about salafi is wrong because ALLAH subahnavtala never gave us that right we are not here to decide about others
You did here exactly what I said earlier. One moment you call the salafis fanatic. Another moment, you don't want us to criticize them. It is better if you take some time off to make up your mind on where you stand.
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Can you provide proof of the above statement? Where did I make such comment about the Jews?
you dont have to say but it implies , you seem to have lot of problems with all the sects who follow Quran with other texts .obviously , you should have problems with the people who dont follow Quran .So you must have problems with Jews,Christians as well as Hindus .you think only your are the only true Muslim .
You did here exactly what I said earlier. One moment you call the salafis fanatic. Another moment, you don't want us to criticize them. It is better if you take some time off to make up your mind on where you stand.
ok let me clear my stand ,i have told you many times but you seem to forget quite often.
i believe in every extra doctrine which relates to Quran and Islam .it may be from sunni or shia ,i believe in them .not only that i even believe vedas and bible .i strongly believe all the religions have only one author.
I believe in Ahadith ,tajweed,tawil,qyas ,fiqh and everything .i take everything after making them to under go the litmus test and that test is Quran,the ultimate
i believe our ancestors have guided us for a better understanding of Quran ,of course after discounting the human error .you want to neglect everything on the basis of these human error .Read your earlier posts in which you said GL unknowingly abrogated Quran verse.
Secondly, google THE RULING ON JIHAD AND ITS DIVISIONS. It comes from your salafi bosses.
Third, those who believe in hadiths pretty much indirectly contribute to terrorism. In a buffet restaurant, one can eat whatever dish he likes. In other words, just because some sectarians don't follow the gruesome hadiths doesn't mean they are not being followed by other sectarians.Glad that your read my posts but very sad that you fail to understand what i have mention in them .it is evident from the fact you never stick to the topic except your hatred .the hatred you spill on salafi which makes you a exact Quranist counterpart .in other words a Quranist fanatic .
let me remind you my answer for your previous post (link here)
I will reproduce you answer here................................
Phiss, we take the entire Quran into consideration when it comes to knowing when war is correct...not a few verses. So you aren't gonna like if I say that a group can fight only with the ones who wronged them.
...............You said ,Quranist take the entire Quran .if we do that than as per verse 9.04 and 9.05 ,we have to wait till the treaty is over and once it is over then Muslims should kill the kafirs .this is what one can make it if he did not applies abrogation .before pointing your finger towards salafi , you make me your stand on verse 09.04 and 09.05 .further , i made it very clear Quranist and salafi go hand in hand when comes to verse 9.04 and 9.05 .otherwise you prove that i am wrong .
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you dont have to say but it implies , you seem to have lot of problems with all the sects who follow Quran with other texts .obviously , you should have problems with the people who dont follow Quran .So you must have problems with Jews,Christians as well as Hindus .you think only your are the only true Muslim .
In a bizarre turn of events, majority of the Jews, Christians, Hindus know their salat in this world. After the BD attack, lots of truth about your kind of Islam came in front me and I can no more support it at all. There is a big need for change to prevent more young kids from becoming terrorists. And hey, we don't declare ourselves as "true" Muslim because it is a judgement that belongs to Allah only.
i believe our ancestors have guided us for a better understanding of Quran ,of course after discounting the human error .you want to neglect everything on the basis of these human error .
Umm, I did notice that "belief" of yours is a part of salafism. The human error you are discounting has forced many to be oppressed and killed. I do not support buffet system in Islam.
I believe in Ahadith ,tajweed,tawil,qyas ,fiqh and everything .i take everything after making them to under go the litmus test and that test is Quran,the ultimate
The "vampire" book I mentioned above also believe in all these stuffs including the fairy tale that ancestors guide. You can scream as much as you want about how you don't support what is written within it, but at the end the day, the buffet system and your kind of blind faith in gossips and human Gods allow them to spill blood. And I hear about litmus test all the time from other sectarians. It falls flat because
- the term Islamic law was coined by mu'tazilites and not God
- it is not new to anyone that right after the death of Prophet people began dividing and generating hadiths in his name
- God forbids hadiths in numerous verses
Ah now you are gonna turn verse about the belief in unseen upside down. Let me tell you that one day this twisted meaning of the verse can make your children become terrorist. The recruiter just needs to use the verse in your way and say exactly what is in that vampire book to make them kill people.
Glad that your read my posts but very sad that you fail to understand what i have mention in them .it is evident from the fact you never stick to the topic except your hatred .the hatred you spill on salafi which makes you a exact Quranist counterpart .in other words a Quranist fanatic .
let me remind you my answer for your previous post (link here)
I will reproduce you answer hereI have not found a single verse in which God tells me to support pharoah's laws.
You said ,Quranist take the entire Quran .if we do that than as per verse 9.04 and 9.05 ,we have to wait till the treaty is over and once it is over then Muslims should kill the kafirs .this is what one can make it if he did not applies abrogation .before pointing your finger towards salafi , you make me your stand on verse 09.04 and 09.05 .further , i made it very clear Quranist and salafi go hand in hand when comes to verse 9.04 and 9.05 .otherwise you prove that i am wrong .
Once again, our understanding of Quran doesn't match yours. It seems that you have some kind of obsession to look for verses which you can use to justify killings. We are far away from that. And you may need to check
913 Would you not fight a people who broke their oaths and determined to expel the Messenger, and they had begun you the first time? Do you fear them? But Allah has more right that you should fear Him, if you are believers.Overall, the verses you are using to justify killings are linked to gruesome oppression and breaking of promise. It is rather political and anarchy related. What treaty on earth did we make with them????? Here we are happily living beside people of other religions. They are more Quranic than the sectarians. And yes, if anything ever happens to them we will stand for them. There is a big big formula within the Quran which tells us to be civilized and work towards the progress for the humanity. God forbids us from behaving like animals. Your claim thus falls flat.
This is my last reply to you. I will repeat that you are basically swinging from one opinion to another. Please work on what you stand for.
Salaam. -
When the law was made it said "do not kill".
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When the law was made it said "do not kill".
When and where ,MOF
can you give more details
But i do know a verse which says man is bound to shed blood on this earth -
In a bizarre turn of events, majority of the Jews, Christians, Hindus know their salat in this world.
Do you know about your salat .i still see lot of ambiguity here on this forum
After the BD attack, lots of truth about your kind of Islam came in front me and I can no more support it at all. There is a big need for change to prevent more young kids from becoming terrorists.
Now you have understood the real meaning of this thread .terrorism is a realty that is staring us .it is not only salafi but every one can be made as terrorist and Quraninc verse can be made as a justification for their conversion .Quranist are no exception .
Once again, our understanding of Quran doesn't match yours. It seems that you have some kind of obsession to look for verses which you can use to justify killings. We are far away from that. And you may need to check
913 Would you not fight a people who broke their oaths and determined to expel the Messenger, and they had begun you the first time? Do you fear them? But Allah has more right that you should fear Him, if you are believers.Overall, the verses you are using to justify killings are linked to gruesome oppression and breaking of promise. It is rather political and anarchy related. What treaty on earth did we make with them????? Here we are happily living beside people of other religions. They are more Quranic than the sectarians. And yes, if anything ever happens to them we will stand for them. There is a big big formula within the Quran which tells us to be civilized and work towards the progress for the humanity. God forbids us from behaving like animals. Your claim thus falls flat.
Now you are on topic and providing a healthy argument
First i thank ALLAH subahnavatal for given me a good life . We are sitting in our A/C rooms and discussing with our computers .You have a made a point regrading these verses ."gruesome oppression and breaking of promise."
If you go back and look into the history of the world ,in past 100 years Christian atrocities were boundless .once again , i will remind you ,a ordinary Muslim who lives with his family will never became a terrorists but what about those who were made to witness the killing of their kids ,raping of their wife and parents just in front of their eyes .when taken as POWs they made to undergo torture and humiliation to the extent that they bang their heads on the wall and made to kiss the death .what about those Muslims .you can find these type of Muslims in Kashmir and Iraq.
Suppose ,let me take the case of such Muslim and he is consulting you regrading verse 9.04 and 9.05 .he is a Quranist and he is consulting you .you have given your view point .namely ,in case of "gruesome oppression and breaking of promise." one is allowed to kill the kafris and our man fits into the category of "gruesome oppression and breaking of promise."
i am not in obsession to hook killing in the verse 9.05 but your reasoning is making it as a verse to justify terrorists acts .This is my last reply to you. I will repeat that you are basically swinging from one opinion to another. Please work on what you stand for.
Salaam.lol
i think your faith/reasoning is not to the extent to defend .what type of faith/reasoning is this .you always want to ran away from truth.if you think your faith/reasoning is correct then it should be able to defend any one at any situation as i am doing here .today some lunatic in BD attacks claimed he was inspired by DZN .will you wait for the day so that some another lunatic will claim that even Quranist have this view pointFinally , neither Quranist nor salafi can never advocate for the verse 9.05 without using terminological abrogation .Try in whatever way you want ,you will end up supporting terrorist unless you bring verse 60.08 and prove the verse 9.05 should be taken in terminological sense which is the actual truth.
BTW ,It was a good post right on target ,Reel -
When and where ,MOF
can you give more details
But i do know a verse which says man is bound to shed blood on this earthEven in that lousy interpretation it implies on those who are not goodly (in the verse you seem to refer to, 230 if I remember correctly). This is what God knows but not the angels in that interpretation, i.e. that there will be exceptions which are those who are not following the programming of the Homo Sapiens primate (for it is empirically proved that your are a mammal and an ape). Sorry, Quran speaks against you, brother. To kill was something to be ultimately avoided.
And the law of Moses was "DO NOT KILL", do not shed blood. It would only be in self-defense it would be acceptable but then it is a shame and nothing glorious. You should be forced to kill, not seek to kill especially out of revenge. And if you can you should take prisoners rather than kill on the spot. And diplomacy and to proceed with wisdom is your first step.
Perhaps the ancient law even read "do not defeat", because it might contain the word qatal which does not mean kill but to master/defeat/subdue. It makes better sense. To wish to defeat others and be above them is one of the Homo Sapiens body's greater wishes.
Nevertheless, bloodshed and chaos is not sound (Islam) and it is to follow Satan (the instinct - which is the body's innate drive). Those who are wise seek to cut off from Satan and behave like elevated beings (above Satan and this world). You are much better than an animal, are you not? Let not yourself be influenced by Satan.
Be well
Amenuel -
And it makes sense with "do not defeat/dominate" when comparing what Jesus allegedly said about one of the directives of the law "do not even be angry/upset with your brother". It is connected to a remedy of defeating Satan's influence over you. Do not let yourself be emotional.
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And it makes sense with "do not defeat/dominate" when comparing what Jesus allegedly said about one of the directives of the law "do not even be angry/upset with your brother". It is connected to a remedy of defeating Satan's influence over you. Do not let yourself be emotional.
we cannot get rid of emotions,, sometimes we can but there are some situations where emotions mind reasoning religion even God we forget it all , specially in cases what i m telling here..
if somebody is raping a sister or mother.. other person have left no option to kill that person, killing him is the minimum satisfaction he can get...
if somebody is robbng or stealing you ,, when you find out you really want to give him a hard time atleast to take from him whatever he have..
if somebody have a gun and become a don of area.. he said you to prostrate you in sense of submission ,, and you refuse. he will kill you so in this situation when opponent find a chance there is nothing left him other than to kill that perosn..
emotions are bound to the actions of opossite perosn...
even moses hit somebody in self defence and he died , a random person how can he control his powers..
in the subject of david when a powerful king was infront of him , he said to david go away i dnt want to kill you , you are just a small heighted kid,,
but david said,, you dnt want to kill me but i want to kill you,, here you go, and in one shot he knocked him down to floor,
its not mean david transgrees,, the one who get killed was the wicked and he shed blood with lot of people with his own hands..
sometimes i also get confuse with this emotions thingie,, it make me change my way , whenever i see somebody is in bad condition i try to help him my best,, and i have negetive emotions, whenever i see somebody is coming infront of me and looking into my eyes and want to take over me i show my side which i dnt like by myself,, trust me but i know i should do patience sometimes , i failed in most of the emotional cases...which are in bound by a particular situation...
from last twoo years i have a control over it but still i have some emotional problems..peace.
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Imran,
we cannot get rid of emotions,, sometimes we can but there are some situations where emotions mind reasoning religion even God we forget it all , specially in cases what i m telling here..
I beg to differ, we can avoid emotionality. One part is how attached we are to this world that determines how difficult it is for us.
if somebody is raping a sister or mother.. other person have left no option to kill that person, killing him is the minimum satisfaction he can get...
You reason in a very worldly way now. Of course it is a really sinful (shameful) scenario to have such an event occur to you, but that you seek to have the person executed is vain because the person merely by performing the action sinks down way deeper into the mire, so to say. It would be a terribly difficult situation to control your emotions, but if you do not run into an uncontrollable rage this is meritorious. Revenge in form of killing him is a primitive satisfaction, but it changes nothing in a constructive way and your sister or mother will still have been raped. The rapist will already encounter a very troublesome fate.
if somebody is robbng or stealing you ,, when you find out you really want to give him a hard time atleast to take from him whatever he have..
What proportions do you suggest here, I could not understand? Do you mean you should take tenfold from him?
In the teachings of Moses they used to say "an eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth.."
It seems you would be looking for primitive revenge too like beating him up. Well it gives a primitive feeling of wellness to you, but it hardly changes anything.
if somebody have a gun and become a don of area.. he said you to prostrate you in sense of submission ,, and you refuse. he will kill you so in this situation when opponent find a chance there is nothing left him other than to kill that perosn..
You could try to immobilize him like disarmament and in the attempt to subdue him without killing him you do not seek revenge in order to kill him if you succeed.
emotions are bound to the actions of opossite perosn...
Emotions are driven by the instinct. They can be controlled and subdued. Certainly if the other person is increasingly provocative it is harder to resist an emotional outburst, but it is highly praiseworthy to be able. If you can do like I wrote above in those very situations this is very praiseworthy of you.
even moses hit somebody in self defence and he died , a random person how can he control his powers..
Who do you claim he killed? Do you refer to the fabricated story of him in Egypt? In this story Moses did assault the opponent of one of his people without really asking what the fight was about.
Besides, using the body as a tool detached from emotion so that you kill a person in a decisive choice (to do a necessary evil) is not related to this discussion we are now having. I was not speaking about logical reactions to situations, but about letting the emotions trigger the reaction. You need to make a clear distinction between what you control by the real you (your person and soul) and what the body causes you to do.
in the subject of david when a powerful king was infront of him , he said to david go away i dnt want to kill you , you are just a small heighted kid,,
but david said,, you dnt want to kill me but i want to kill you,, here you go, and in one shot he knocked him down to floor,
That David would never have said as a prophet. His words would have gone like this "If you move a foot closer in aggression I will be forced to subdue you". A prophet would not use the word "I want", and primarily they would use the word defeat or subdue, and speak about necessity of action.
its not mean david transgrees,, the one who get killed was the wicked and he shed blood with lot of people with his own hands..
He did a necessary evil in order to prevent worse evil.
sometimes i also get confuse with this emotions thingie,, it make me change my way , whenever i see somebody is in bad condition i try to help him my best,, and i have negetive emotions, whenever i see somebody is coming infront of me and looking into my eyes and want to take over me i show my side which i dnt like by myself,, trust me but i know i should do patience sometimes , i failed in most of the emotional cases...which are in bound by a particular situation...
from last twoo years i have a control over it but still i have some emotional problems..It is that you need to change your attitude. If you reason like above then obviously you will have problems. You do accept that emotions is a natural part of your being and is kind of "apologetic" towards it. You can be like perfect and then you need to have faith you can, i.e. confidence (which is amin in Arabic). Learn from my old motto "everything is possible, nothing is impossible".
No intention of insulting you or belittling you. It is by the intention to help you. People need to understand that the Satan they are struggling with is from their own body they have found themselves within from childhood. The "whispers of Satan" comes from within yourself and they are generated thoughts in you that are bodily. Separate from the bodily and choose your spiritual side.
Be well
Amenuel -
@ mof
you are right i do agree , the example is in the story of first murdering,, of humankind he controlled his emotions get killed and the killer wronged himself..
thats what i m telling you every perosn have different level f pateince, if every body start understanding spritual importance there will be no more dispute left..
but this all trick is lies and connected with us in this worldy life, how hard we try to be Good people will take advantage , once i almost cost my life due to this thing, i try to help somebody but in the return she did with me something that drives me to kill her but i control, i suffered a huge loss money , time, moral , and most important thing i feel scared to doing good with needy...
anyway its my personal story but i still dnt understand i did not take any revenge i did not do anythhing wrong with her, but from inside i really hate her, i try not to hate her, but my emotions re weak, i never hate somebody usually but this particular situation locked my gravity..of emotions, i dnt know why it happen , but may be its a test going on , but from time to time my hate is reducing.. but i still hate her..one day may i know i fifnish this hate.. but i think it take a long time...