113:2
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I told you though.... I did not intend to bring up a discussion whether iblees is shaytan or not.
It's iblees who misleads people to doing wrong but he was created by God though. Do you have an objection ?
Well i don't have an objection but still fail to see the connection between Evil & God.
By the way, Allah/God (SWTAY) helps out the believers against Iblis (If i got that right)
3420
Walaqad saddaqa AAalayhim ibleesu thannahufaittabaAAoohu illa fareeqan mina almu/mineena
And Iblis has been successful in his suggestions to them, for they followed him, except for a group of the believers.3421
Wama kana lahu AAalayhim minsultanin illa linaAAlama man yu/minu bial-akhiratimimman huwa minha fee shakkin warabbuka AAala kullishay-in hafeethun
And he did not have any authority over them except that We might distinguish those who believed in the Hereafter from those who are doubtful about it. And your Lord is Keeper over all things.1528
Wa-ith qala rabbuka lilmala-ikatiinnee khaliqun basharan min salsalin min hama-inmasnoonin
And your Lord said to the angels "I am creating a human being from a sludge from hot sediment."1529
Fa-itha sawwaytuhu wanafakhtu feehimin roohee faqaAAoo lahu sajideena
"So when I evolve him, and blow from My Spirit in him, you shall yield to him."1530
Fasajada almala-ikatu kulluhumajmaAAoona
Thus, all of the angels yielded.1531
Illa ibleesa aba an yakoonamaAAa alssajideena
Except for Iblis, he refused to be of those who yielded.1532
Qala ya ibleesu ma lakaalla takoona maAAa alssajideena
He said "O Iblis, what is the matter that you are not of those who yielded?"1533
Qala lam akun li-asjuda libasharinkhalaqtahu min salsalin min hama-in masnoonin
He said "I am not to yield to a human being whom You have created from a sludge from hot sediment."1534
Qala faokhruj minhafa-innaka rajeemun
He said "Exit from here, you are cast out."1535
Wa-inna AAalayka allaAAnata ila yawmialddeeni
"And a curse shall be upon you until the Day of Recompense."1536
Qala rabbi faanthirneeila yawmi yubAAathoona
He said "My Lord, respite me until the Day they are resurrected."1537
Qala fa-innaka mina almunthareena
He said "You are given respite."1538
Ila yawmi alwaqti almaAAloomi
"Until the Day of the time appointed."1539
Qala rabbi bima aghwaytaneelaozayyinanna lahum fee al-ardi walaoghwiyannahumajmaAAeena
He said "My Lord, for that by which You have caused me to be misled, I will beautify for them what is on the earth, and I will mislead them all."1540
Illa AAibadaka minhumualmukhlaseena
"Except Your servants from among them, the devoted ones."1541
Qala hatha siratunAAalayya mustaqeemun
He said "This shall be a straight path to Me."1542
Inna AAibadee laysa laka AAalayhimsultanun illa mani ittabaAAaka mina alghaweena
"For My servants, you shall have no authority over them, except those who are misled and follow you." -
If there is no evil, how is it that there going to be good ? It's two ways BY DESIGN. How is the life test even possible without evil, iblees, the embodiment of evil ? Did God not orchestrate all this ?
I never said evil never existed. Secondly Good is by design because we happen to naturally have MORALITY/GOODNESS. To me Evil is the ABSENCE of morality or in other words IMMORALITY which is opposite of Goodness. Also how is Iblis, the embodiment of evil? I have no idea where you got this from.
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If then evil exist then it has been created, or at least the things that lead to evil have been created, which is iblees if you prefer.
Also how is Iblis, the embodiment of evil? I have no idea where you got this from.
It's just a conclusion, an analogy, if people do evil because they followed iblees then I can say iblees represents evil. Anything revolting about this analogy ? Absolutely not. You get conclusion by thinking. Doesn't have to be written somewhere.
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It's just a conclusion, an analogy, if people do evil because they followed iblees then I can say iblees represents evil. Anything revolting about this analogy ? Absolutely not. You get conclusion by thinking. Doesn't have to be written somewhere.
Bold 1 Actually that is a bit inaccurate, it is the devil's footsteps they follow
2168
Ya ayyuha alnnasukuloo mimma fee al-ardi halalan tayyibanwala tattabiAAoo khutuwati alshshaytaniinnahu lakum AAaduwwun mubeenun
O people, eat from what is on the earth as good and lawful, and do not follow in the footsteps of the devil. He is to you a clear enemy.2208
Ya ayyuha allatheena amanooodkhuloo fee alssilmi kaffatan walatattabiAAoo khutuwati alshshaytaniinnahu lakum AAaduwwun mubeenun
O you who believe, join in peace, all of you, and do not follow in the footsteps of the devil. He is to you a clear enemy.6142
Wamina al-anAAami hamoolatanwafarshan kuloo mimma razaqakumu Allahu walatattabiAAoo khutuwati alshshaytaniinnahu lakum AAaduwwun mubeenun
And from the livestock are those for burden, and also for clothing. Eat from what God has provided you and do not follow the footsteps of the devil; he is to you a clear enemy.2421
Ya ayyuha allatheena amanoola tattabiAAoo khutuwati alshshaytaniwaman yattabiAA khutuwati alshshaytanifa-innahu ya/muru bialfahsha-i waalmunkariwalawla fadlu Allahi AAalaykum warahmatuhuma zaka minkum min ahadin abadan walakinnaAllaha yuzakkee man yashao waAllahusameeAAun AAaleemun
O you who believe, do not follow the footsteps of the devil. And whoever follows the footsteps of the devil should know that he advocates immorality and vice. And had it not been for the grace of God upon you and His mercy, not one of you would have ever been purified, but God purifies whom He wishes, and God is Hearer, Knower.Bold 2 You have to be careful about that. When someone makes a claim, you have back it up with evidence, otherwise people will see your claim as a assumption. Not trying to be offending, only being honest.
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If then evil exist then it has been created, or at least the things that lead to evil have been created, which is iblees if you prefer.
If it was created then i highly doubt it was God who did it because he orders justice & goodness and all good comes from Allah (SWTAY) and all bad or evil comes from us humans.
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You're kind of reaching out to anything at this point to support your lack of knowledge and thinking.
If that's a bit inaccurate to you, that they follow the devil's footsteps instead then what does iblees do to them ?
716 He said "For that which You have caused me to be misled, I will stalk for them on Your straight path."
717 "Then I will come to them from between their hands, and from behind them, and from their right, and from their left; and You will find most of them unthankful."
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If it was created then i highly doubt it was God who did it because he orders justice & goodness and all good comes from Allah (SWTAY) and all bad or evil comes from us humans.
You seem quite certain of your claims.
If it wasn't created it very well popped out of the blue then ? Or are you saying there is a second creator ?
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You have to be careful about that. When someone makes a claim, you have back it up with evidence, otherwise people will see your claim as a assumption. Not trying to be offending, only being honest.
You have to be careful about thinking ? And what is the "evidence", a verse from the quran ? You realize in order to understand a verse you have to think and you cannot restrict your thinking in order to fully understand.
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You're kind of reaching out to anything at this point to support your lack of knowledge and thinking.
If that's a bit inaccurate to you, that they follow the devil's footsteps instead then what does iblees do to them ?
716 He said "For that which You have caused me to be misled, I will stalk for them on Your straight path."717 "Then I will come to them from between their hands, and from behind them, and from their right, and from their left; and You will find most of them unthankful."
From the look of the verses you gave, it says that Iblis will stalk them on Allah's (SWTAY) Straight Path.
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You have to be careful about thinking ? And what is the "evidence", a verse from the quran ? You realize in order to understand a verse you have to think and you cannot restrict your thinking in order to fully understand.
In topic of the Qur'an then yes it would count as evidence. And you have realize understand A verse won't exactly tell you the full story, you have to get full context in order understand what God is talking about. Otherwise it would limit your understanding if you check only the verse alone. Not saying you are taking out of context.
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By the way, i noticed we wen't off topic because this about Surah 113, not Iblis & Shaytan.
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From the look of the verses you gave, it says that Iblis will stalk them on Allah's (SWTAY) Straight Path.
It pretty much means that he will misguide them. You've put every one of my statement to scrutiny looking for things to disagree with and now you resort to "the look of the verse".
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In topic of the Qur'an then yes it would count as evidence. And you have realize understand A verse won't exactly tell you the full story, you have to get full context in order understand what God is talking about. Otherwise it would limit your understanding if you check only the verse alone. Not saying you are taking out of context.
Understanding a verse implies taking in consideration the full context.
But to understand a verse you have to think. And to do it freely. You cannot restrain your thinking and expect to understand. And after thinking you draw conclusions. You can't deny all of those conclusions and say "where in the quran does it say that ??". Of course it doesn't say that, you understood it from it.
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It pretty much means that he will misguide them. You've put every one of my statement to scrutiny and now you resort to "the look of the verse".
Scrutiny? I was not insulting you or accusing you. If i did then i apologize. Besides when i looked at the verse, i was just simply reading what verses you gave. And yes, Iblis wants misguide us but that makes him a misleading Jinn, not The Devil. He was never called Al-Shaytan. Also i have not seen a verse saying that Iblis is a clear enemy, the devil was called our clear enemy.
2168
Ya ayyuha alnnasukuloo mimma fee al-ardi halalan tayyibanwala tattabiAAoo khutuwati alshshaytaniinnahu lakum AAaduwwun mubeenun
O people, eat from what is on the earth as good and lawful, and do not follow in the footsteps of the devil. He is to you a clear enemy.2208
Ya ayyuha allatheena amanooodkhuloo fee alssilmi kaffatan walatattabiAAoo khutuwati alshshaytaniinnahu lakum AAaduwwun mubeenun
O you who believe, join in peace, all of you, and do not follow in the footsteps of the devil. He is to you a clear enemy.6142
Wamina al-anAAami hamoolatanwafarshan kuloo mimma razaqakumu Allahu walatattabiAAoo khutuwati alshshaytaniinnahu lakum AAaduwwun mubeenun
And from the livestock are those for burden, and also for clothing. Eat from what God has provided you and do not follow the footsteps of the devil; he is to you a clear enemy.2421
Ya ayyuha allatheena amanoola tattabiAAoo khutuwati alshshaytaniwaman yattabiAA khutuwati alshshaytanifa-innahu ya/muru bialfahsha-i waalmunkariwalawla fadlu Allahi AAalaykum warahmatuhuma zaka minkum min ahadin abadan walakinnaAllaha yuzakkee man yashao waAllahusameeAAun AAaleemun
O you who believe, do not follow the footsteps of the devil. And whoever follows the footsteps of the devil should know that he advocates immorality and vice. And had it not been for the grace of God upon you and His mercy, not one of you would have ever been purified, but God purifies whom He wishes, and God is Hearer, Knower.Bold 2 You have to be careful about that. When someone makes a claim, you have back it up with evidence, otherwise people will see your claim as a assumption. Not trying to be offending, only being honest.
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And yes, Iblis wants misguide us but that makes him a misleading Jinn, not The Devil. He was never called Al-Shaytan. Also i have not seen a verse saying that Iblis is a clear enemy, the devil was called our clear enemy.
Well in such case, there is a misleading Jinn and the devil who are the cause of evil in your opinion ?
And they were both created by God ? -
But to understand a verse you have to think. And to do it freely. You cannot restrain your thinking and expect to understand. And after thinking you draw conclusions. You can't deny all of those conclusions and say "where in the quran does it say that ??". Of course it doesn't say that, you understood it from it.
But that would odd in my view (sorry if i misunderstood) because people did look at a verse like for example 654, people thought it was about pedophilia but in context it was about divorce, check the verses before & after 654. And also see this if you have the time
https//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9609545.msg405259#msg405259
http//www.quranicpath.com/misconceptions/underage_marriage.html
http//www.quran-islam.org/articles/part_4/child_marriage_(P1457).html
http//www.quran-islam.org/main_topics/quran/misinterpreted_verses/marriage_to_minor_girls_(P146.html
http//www.quran-islam.org/articles/part_5/age_of_aisha_(P1472).html
http//quransmessage.com/articles/verse%2065-4%20FM3.htm
http//www.misconceptions-about-islam.com/muhammad-married-young-girl.htm
https//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9603544.msg293373#msg293373
https//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9609108.msg400433#msg400433
This is from Quraniyoon reddit
The answer to objection against 654 is very simple. The verse uses the word nisaikum which means your women, not children. The word used for child in the quran is tifl (225, 2431, 2459, 4067). In fact 2459 says "when your children reach puberty", so prepubescent = child/tifl per the Quranic usage. Additionally, 2431 mentions both tifl and nisa as separate categories so nisa cannot include tifl. Therefore, 654 cannot possibly be referring to prepubescent. I am surprised that none of the above mentioned links gives this answer.
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But that would odd in my view (sorry if i misunderstood) because people did look at a verse like for example 654, people thought it was about pedophilia but in context it was about divorce, check the verses before & after 654. And also see this if you have the time
But people make of the quran what they understand from it. And the understandings can vary, and in order to determine which understanding is the right we use our logical reasoning.
You say you follow the Quran but you can't follow "the quran". You follow what you understand from the Quran. But your understanding can very well be wrong, illogical or based on lack of knowledge and/or reasoning.
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Well in such case, there is a misleading Jinn and the devil who are the cause of evil in your opinion ?
And they were both created by God ?I have not seen a verse that the devil was created by God but there is a verse does state that Jinn was created by Allah (SWTAY)
5156
Wama khalaqtu aljinna waal-insailla liyaAAbudooni
I did not create the Jinn and mankind except to serve Me.Besides even Jinn pay heed to the Qur'an as well and warned other Jinn
4629
Wa-ith sarafna ilaykanafaran mina aljinni yastamiAAoona alqur-ana falammahadaroohu qaloo ansitoo falammaqudiya wallaw ila qawmihim munthireena
And We directed to you a company of Jinn, in order to let them listen to the Qur'an. So when they arrived there, they said "Pay attention." Then, when it was finished, they returned to their people, to warn them.4630
Qaloo ya qawmana innasamiAAna kitaban onzila min baAAdi moosa musaddiqanlima bayna yadayhi yahdee ila alhaqqi wa-ilatareeqin mustaqeemin
They said "O our people, we have heard a Book that was sent down after Moses, authenticating what is between his hands. It guides to the truth; and to a straight path."4631
Ya qawmana ajeeboo daAAiyaAllahi waaminoo bihi yaghfir lakum min thunoobikumwayujirkum min AAathabin aleemin
"O our people, respond to the caller to God, and believe in Him. He will then forgive your sins, and spare you a painful retribution."Now the question "who are the cause of evil in your opinion ?" I indirectly answered it here
I never said evil never existed. Secondly Good is by design because we happen to naturally have MORALITY/GOODNESS. To me Evil is the ABSENCE of morality or in other words IMMORALITY which is opposite of Goodness. Also how is Iblis, the embodiment of evil? I have no idea where you got this from.
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But people make of the quran what they understand from it. And the understandings can vary, and in order to determine which understanding is the right we use our logical reasoning.
Bold But there are also pre-concieved bias as well like a islamophobic view or a evangelical catholic view (Like that guy Apple Pie)
