Pork is HALAL

good_logic

Peace Mahdi.
Pork was not mentioned, blood was not mentioned, dead animals were not mentioned. Why are you insisting only on pork?
Or are you saying that 6146 is a complete list of items forbidden for the Jews?
GOD bless you.
Peace.

Mahdi_Ibrahim

it is clear instruction...

and for pork, some of the issue

AND there is no issue for blood and dead animal, ONLY FRESH MEAT, it is against common sense and words from the Quran... and "maggoty stinking" flesh since there is no verses that made haram these meats; eat and sell it to customers for profit... can be considered as HALAL.
...

And We have sent down the Book to you with truth, confirming and conserving the previous Books. So judge between them by what Allah has sent down and do not follow their whims and desires deviating from the Truth that has come to you ... (54.

and please tell me...

http//i64.tinypic.com/2iudffk.jpg

Why it should be "flesh of swine", and why not "maggoty and stinking" flesh?

What is the difference?

https//scontent.fkul7-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/51515994_2278576255692286_1089165012905230336_n.jpg?_nc_cat=104&_nc_ht=scontent.fkul7-1.fna&oh=89603edda44036894cd40324a94152fb&oe=5CBB4488

Why fresh meat is haram?

Is maggoty and stinking meat etc halal?

Can we sell it?

You can give decayed animal flesh to the immigrants who live in your cities, and they can eat it; or you can sell it to foreigners. ~ Deuteronomy 1421

Say ´People of the Book! you have nothing to stand on until you implement the Torah and the Gospel and what has been sent down to you from your Lord.´ (Quran 56

If not, what verse?

Where does Allah says maggoty and stinking meat / fruits haram?

good_logic

Peace Mahdi.
Let us stay specific to solve "pork is halal because it has not been mentioned in 6146", then we can move on to other issues.
So does 6146 give you the full list of items forbidden to Beni Israeel?
That is what you based your assumption from.
GOD bless you.
Peace.

Mahdi_Ibrahim

You cannot answer the above issues, repeating irrelevant questions, and your logic is terrible...

plus...

https//image.slidesharecdn.com/latinismsainoa-100127044125-phpapp02/95/latinisms-a-inoa-3-728.jpg?cb=1264567302

be free, I'm not wasting my time for your nonsense. There is no educational value in argument by repetition and fallacies.

good_logic

Peace Mahdi.
You based your claim that "pork is halal" because it is not mentioned in 6146.
Now you are not answering a logical and very relevant question about your claim.
There is only two answers to my question

1- Either the list in 6146 is complete , hence everything not in it is not forbidden and should be halal. Pork,dead animals, blood...etc

2- The list is not complete ,and one cannot say pork is halal unless they have the full list for others to check.

If there is another option please let us have it.
Your argument is nullified since you claim the following
Pork-----Halal
Blood----Haram
Dead Animals----Haram
All three should be all halal according to the options or you cannot tell until you have the complete list.
A clear contradiction in your argument as you can see.

My understanding is that the list in 6146 contains additional items for Beni Israeel only.
Qoran gives you a clear clarification of what is haram for the believers.

As for other issues, like what is the meaning of "Lahm Al Khinzeer that is another topic ,we can discuss that as a separate if you wish.
GOD bless you.
Peace.

Mahdi_Ibrahim

already said, "it is clear instruction" and "confirming function of the Quran"

it is clear instruction...

and for pork, some of the issue

And We have sent down the Book to you with truth, confirming and conserving the previous Books. So judge between them by what Allah has sent down and do not follow their whims and desires deviating from the Truth that has come to you ... (54.

| Dead animal / Bible | | | Dead animal / Quran

| You can give decayed animal flesh to the immigrants who live in your cities, and they can eat it; or you can sell it to foreigners. ~ Deuteronomy 1421 | | | Say "I do not find in what is inspired to me forbidden except that it be already dead, or blood, or flesh of swine..." (Q.6145)

| Blood / Bible | | | Blood / Quran

| "Therefore say to them, 'Thus says the Lord GOD, "You eat meat with the blood in it, lift up your eyes to your idols as you shed blood Should you then possess the land? ~ Ezekiel 3325 | | | Say "I do not find in what is inspired to me forbidden except that it be already dead, or blood, or flesh of swine..." (Q.6145)

| Pork / Bible | | | Pork / Quran

| And the pig, because it parts the hoof and is cloven-footed but does not chew the cud, is unclean to you. You shall not eat any of their flesh, and you shall not touch their carcasses; they are unclean to you. Leviticus 117-8 ESV | | | Say "I do not find in what is inspired to me forbidden except that it be already dead, or blood, or flesh of swine..." (Q.6145)

Only pork corroborate and when Allah said "We certainly speak the truth . (Q.6146)"

We made haram for the Jews every animal with an undivided hoof, and in respect of cattle and sheep, We made their fat haram for them, except what is attached to their backs or guts or mixed up with bone. That is how We repaid them for their insolence. And We certainly speak the truth . (Q.6146)

Pork was not made haram for the Jews.

Therefore, must look into corroborative evidence before making haram "FRESH MEAT", this is against common sense (muhkamat) and the following issues

http//i64.tinypic.com/2iudffk.jpg

https//scontent.fkul7-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/51515994_2278576255692286_1089165012905230336_n.jpg?_nc_cat=104&_nc_ht=scontent.fkul7-1.fna&oh=89603edda44036894cd40324a94152fb&oe=5CBB4488

Accordingly, it is "flesh seen as maggoty", it is not about pork/fresh meat.

The FOOD (pork) OF THOSE GIVEN THE BOOK is halal for you ... anyone who rejects iman (halal foods and flesh of swine), his actions will COME TO NOTHING and in the Next World he will be among the LOSERS. (55)

In order for you to counter this argument, then you must answer the above issues....

https//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9610488.msg421729;topicseen#msg421729

and ..

Is maggoty and stinking meat etc halal?

Can we sell it?

You can give decayed animal flesh to the immigrants who live in your cities, and they can eat it; or you can sell it to foreigners. ~ Deuteronomy 1421

Say "People of the Book! you have nothing to stand on until you implement the Torah and the Gospel and what has been sent down to you from your Lord." (Quran 56

If not, what verse?

Where does Allah say maggoty and stinking meat / fruits haram?

Else, you have no argument for making "FRESH MEAT" HARAM.. it is just you being brainwashed (mental slavery) and believing "FRESH MEAT" is HARAM... weird.

https//scontent.fkul7-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/51402309_2278600089023236_143549893070290944_n.jpg?_nc_cat=110&_nc_ht=scontent.fkul7-1.fna&oh=a83413d2f72c7b15168d3c0ac22bcd9f&oe=5CB5B036

Why don't they research the (interpretations and translations of the) Quran? Don't they realize that if it(s interpretations and translations) was from someone other than Allah / TRUTH / UNIVERSAL OR COMMON SENSE, they would find many discrepancies in it. (482)

good_logic

Peace Mahdi.
There is nothing in your post that counters my argument.
You are not sticking to the main issue of claiming pork is halal according to 6146.

Using verse 6146 to claim pork is halal has not worked for you

There is nothing more to say about your assumption except that it is false and you are clearly stuck for answers.

As my post indicated ,both answers nullify your claim.

If I was you ,I would give up on the claim using 6146 and move on.
And you say you follow good sense and logic.

Also I can see that you are insisting on your ways despite evidence against your argument
Your argument regarding 6146 is finished . Dead.
Please yourself and carry on pasting your assumptions if you wish.
GOD bless you.
Peace.

Mahdi_Ibrahim

No worry, I don't even expect you have the brain/ability to make any argument or answer any issue raise in here. Different league and merely blind claims, and full of nonsense; "prolonged repetition".

good_logic

Peace Mahdi.
No worries brother.
Thank you for the conversation.
GOD bless you/
Peace.

Mahdi_Ibrahim

handshake

https//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/7c/Graham%27s_Hierarchy_of_Disagreement.svg/1280px-Graham%27s_Hierarchy_of_Disagreement.svg.png

Direct argument
Counterargument
Rebuttal argument

Noon_waalqalami

and please tell me...

Why it should be "flesh of swine", and why not "maggoty and stinking" flesh?

What is the difference?

perhaps pay attention to what others post less "spam" pics; it was answered by wakas earlier.

incorrect broken language and flesh (noun) the maggoty/stinky (adjective)

if adjective is definite then noun is definite ? basic rule check all qur'an, hadith, newspapers, etc. to verify

the path the straight
the bounty the major
the thread the white
the thread the black
the provision the righteous
the life the world
the devil the accursed
the success the major
the depth the lowest
the house the prohibition
the names the beautiful

and the ideology the prohibition
and the connection the middle
and the horses the branded
and the neighbor the far
and the day the afterlife/last
and the country the clean/pure
and the home the afterlife its

Mahdi_Ibrahim

We are responsible for its interpretation. (7519)

(Aidid Safar) Indeed it is only prohibited on you the carrion and the blood and the CONTAMINATED MEAT and what has been legalised by way of - for other than God. Thus whoever is strained without malice and not being deliberate - surely there is no fault on him. Indeed God is forgiving - merciful.

cf http//aididsafar.com/translation.html

O People of The Book, do you expect I should make fresh meat haram, and based on your so claimed rule alone invalidate the inconsistencies? Does that same rule apply to ancient Arabs/Quraish Dialect? Do you believe in part of the Book, and rejects another part of it? That is SO IMMATURE.. come one, you can do better than this.

https//scontent.fkul1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/41552581_2198230923726820_4447633703832649728_n.jpg?_nc_cat=105&_nc_ht=scontent.fkul1-1.fna&oh=59a53aa2c0f3dde9d372008c204344f3&oe=5CCE7557

Let me tell you, do you realize what is the situation?

I believe in THE ORDINARY / MUHKAMAT (FRESH MEAT/PORK IS HALAL) .. based on common sense from verses in the Quran, and corroborative evidences etc. Sunnatullah + Revelation/ALL RELIGIONS + Common Sense/Ordinary Values/Muhkamat.

http//wbldc.in/image/freshpork.png

You believe in THE EXTRAORDINARY / MUTASYAABIHAT (FRESH MEAT/PORK IS HARAM), and based on the inconsistency of interpretations with other verses etc and cherry picking.

Therefore the burdens of proof to believe in the extraordinary rests invariably on the individuals making a claim, not on the critic.

If you want to claim alien and UFO exists, life on Mars, the burden of proof is on you.. not on the critic.

Understand?

Similarly, if you're going to make the EXTRAORDINARY CLAIM "FRESH MEAT" IS HARAM, then you should answer the issue and proof consistency of interpretations etc ... The person making the extraordinary claims bears the burden and prove it's consistency... beyond reasonable doubt.

Say, "This is my "Islam". "Islam" is with proofs and evidences! I, as well as those who follow me, call you towards Allah/Sunnatullah/Law of Nature/EcoLogic/Facts." (1210

How do you answer the issues raised in this thread?

Can you prove consistency / MUHKAMAT?

good_logic

Peace Mahdi.
We have settled this issue, quote

I believe in THE ORDINARY / MUHKAMAT (FRESH MEAT/PORK IS HALAL) .. based on common sense from verses in the Quran, and corroborative evidences etc. Sunnatullah + Revelation/ALL RELIGIONS + Common Sense/Ordinary Values/Muhkamat.

Verse 6146 is not a conclusive proof as I have shown you clearly.
Nobody has argued about other fresh meat. we are discvussing "pork is halal" according to your assumption.
DO not claim you hace evidence from 6146.

"Lahm Khinzeer" is in discussion and others have challenged you with the grammar of "Al".
So far I do not see a shred of evidence from you.
Others have said that the word "Lahm" and its derivatives in Qoran have always been used to mean "meat" of animals or fish.
Why are you now claiming evidence?
Your common semnse or mine or anyone else s does not mean evidence.

Please do not not spam the thread with other irrelevant pictures, information philosophy...etc.
Stick to the topic in hand seriously and counter the quiestions/ arguments of those taking part.
GOD bless you.
Peace.

Mahdi_Ibrahim

Therefore the burdens of proof to believe in the extraordinary rests invariably on the individuals making a claim, not on the critic.

If you want to claim alien and UFO exists, life on Mars, the burden of proof is on you.. not on the critic.

Understand?

Can you prove consistency / muhkamat?

Where is the proof?

Quote from good logic on Yesterday at 102651 AM

So your list from 6146 is incomplete. You cannot say that pork is not in the list, unless you bring the full list. Is this not simple logic?

according to you that is logical? rotfl

here... where does it say pork?

specific rule..

WE MADE HARAM FOR THE JEWS every animal with an undivided hoof, and in respect of cattle and sheep, We made their fat haram for them, except what is attached to their backs or guts or mixed up with bone. That is how We repaid them for their insolence. And WE CERTAINLY SPEAK THE TRUTH (not the Torah/Bible). (6146)

Simple, and I don't have to waste my time just to prove "pork" was not mentioned in 6146. brickwall

#strawman fallacy
#red herring fallacy

Mahdi_Ibrahim

ELSE

The FOOD (flesh of swine) OF THOSE GIVEN THE BOOK is also halal for you ... anyone who rejects iman (halal foods and flesh of swine), his actions/amal will COME TO NOTHING and in the Next World he will be among the LOSERS. (55)

It is shirk to make haram the flesh of swine

Say "Produce your hadither / witnesses to testify that Allah made this (flesh of swine) haram." If they do testify, DO NOT I'TIQAD WITH THEM and DO NOT FOLLOW the whims and desires of people who deny Our SIGNS, and who do not have iman in the Next World and MAKE OTHERS EQUAL TO THEIR LORD (SHIRK). (6150)

https//scontent.fkul1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/51505944_2280176428865602_4506007514885652480_n.jpg?_nc_cat=111&_nc_ht=scontent.fkul1-1.fna&oh=2a84c7f2c8addab0b2a6ddf29683036e&oe=5CFED68B

These people of ours have taken LordLaws apart from Him/ Sunnatullah/ Nature/ The Ordinary/ Muhkamat. Why do they not produce a clear argument concerning them? Who could do greater wrong than someone who invents a lie against Allah? (1815)

kaltun

Slm to all,

honesty i find the argument of MI very strong .... so thinking out loud now.....

nowadays the consumption of the pork/swine is alot ===> casualties??
who eats animal that died from old age/sickness ???? i think not many ==> why ?? its harms the body
who is consuming blood ??? vampiers ...hehehe ... but i would think nobody also ==> why ?? its harms the body
who is consuming flesh/meat/animal what is sacrificed to another god ?? ==> dont know who does this, and i dont think this harms the body... but it would harm your mind , and your mind is controlling the body ???

what is an ( halluf)
https//media.discordapp.net/attachments/535398007743709216/540860351504187392/unknown.png

https//www.nationalgeographic.com/animals/mammals/w/warthog/

an herbivore... the main question is he chewing his food ??

the question remain if the pig is Haram, will this mean all pig family is haram ??

its very thoughtful when in the past a meat/flesh got bad its Khinzirin... or like MI says alot of foods has his flesh/meat .... like tomato has his flesh ...and its not taste at all to eat rotten tomato....

pork meat is bad
https//www.healthline.com/nutrition/is-pork-bad#section5

pork meat is not that bad

Pork, or ?the other white meat? is high in protein and minerals, and provides numerous cuts like tenderloin to bacon.
One serving of pork has...
thiamine
vitamin B-6 and B-12
potassium
iron
magnesium
A study analyzed the raw values of each product and compared them to the nutritional needs of the body. The fat in pork was found to contain more unsaturated fats than compared to lamb and beef ? meaning more omega-3 fatty acids.

It?s also high in oleic acid, which is a monounsaturated fat that?s readily available for use by the body.

what is better beef or pork
https//www.livestrong.com/article/446740-is-pork-better-than-beef/

why is the explanation of MI that bad ??

some fact for me....
as Quran only beleaver

meaning of salat word has been altered
meaning of sawm word has been altered
meaning of haij word has been altered
we dont live in a sphere spinning earth
jins and humans created and angels are appointed
you dont have to be MUSLIM to get in the heaven...
dead humans cant hear, help you if you call to them ( even the prophets).

Quran tells us regurarly to use our AQL / mind , do selfstudy about the matters

O you who believe! If comes to you a wicked person with information, investigate, lest you harm a people in ignorance, then you become, over what you have done, regretful.

good_logic

Peace Kaltun.
We are only saying Mahdi has no evidence. He is not answering the questions. He is only pasting the same "spam" pictures and sticking to his assumptions.
Since when was "common sense" a proof? We can all use this as proof and call it our common sense.

Answer the questions for him if you think he has proof.
Here are the questions
1- Why did he assume since 6146 does not mention pork, then pork is halal?
6146 does not mention blood or dead animals either. 6146 is a list of additional items forbidden for the Jews as well as other prohibitions not mentioned there and confirmed by Qoran.

2-Why is "LAHM AL-Khinzeer" -contaminated meat?
It does noyt fit the grammar-Al Khinzeer must be a "thing" specific not a description like-contaminated!!!
AlsoLahm- meat- and its derivatives are used in Qoran only in respect to animals and fish. So Al Khinzeer must be an animal or a fish> We know which animal is ALKinzeer in Arabic.

We are saying there is no evidence from Qoran for his assumption .
GOD bless you.
Peace.

Mahdi_Ibrahim

Of course there is no evidence when you simply ignore everything, don't answer the issue, busying with #strawman #redherring, and asserting blind/false claims... it's not even a counterargument and contradiction to begin with, but merely prolonged repetition of your nonsense / ad nauseam, 24 pages ... just read few pages back and people can see it clearly who you really are.

#no_educational_values_and_more_on_time_wasting
#burden_of_proof_on_the_extraordinary_claims

good_logic

Peace Mahdi.
Answer the questions then . They are relevant to your assumptions.

You cannot claim Qoran backs up your claim without answering these valid questions.

Or if you do not have answers ,be brave and admit the verses you are quoting do not support your claim.
GOD bless you.
Peace.

Wakas

peace,

Slm to all,

honesty i find the argument of MI very strong .... so thinking out loud now.....

Did you read this post?
https//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9610488.msg421531#msg421531

Quote
Already covered
https//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9599591.msg234462#msg234462

The basic conclusion was IF you ignore the form the word is in and Quranic grammar, then yes, you can interpret it the way you imply.

Quote from tanveermd
According to qur'aanic grammar, in the phrases "lahma khinzeerin" or "lahma alkhinzeeri", "khinzeer" CANNOT be an adjective but can only be a noun. This has been discussed numerous times on this forum in the past. Please use the search feature for the relevant threads.

A short explanation is as follows

For "khinzeer" to be an adjective the phrase has to have "AL" before both words or if "AL" is not before both words then both words have to have the same ending of "an" or "un".

For example

"lahmun khinzeerun" or "al-lahma al-khinzeer".

The phrases in al-qur'aan are as follows

"lahma khinzeerin" (6145), and "lahma/lahmu alkhinzeeri" (2173, 53, 16115).

Thus "khinzeer" in those phrases CANNOT be an adjective, and can only mean "pig".

Readers should note that despite thousands of similar usage in Quran, when asked Mahdi failed to bring any examples that follow his made-up grammar rules.

By the way, it's fine to be a maverick when it comes to grammar but it has to have evidence as per Quran.