Issue with Salat/ prayer
-
Peace
So basically, when I was sunni I prayed 5 times a day (or tried to/ had the intention), then I prayed 3 times a day and first one rakaat then 2 rakaat only because that was my new understanding of how much etc. I should pray so I did this for maybe 1-2 years. But now I watched these videos on Youtube
https//www.youtube.com/watch?v=35VY4Df-UBo
https//www.youtube.com/watch?v=4APNPrfRORQI think he's right...it was surprising to see that salat is not always translated as prayer. And apparently prostration and bowing - well the arabic terms being translated as such can mean something different.
Bonus question Do you pray? How do you pray? Why do you pray the way you do?
I feel guilty not praying but from my understanding the person in the video said it means reading the Qur'an 3 times a day...and the only prayer is du'a and obviously not praying to anyone other than God.
On one hand, I'm worried my new understanding not not praying ritual prays but rather reading Qur'an regularly is wrong and if I were to die I'd go to Hell...on the other hand, if I were to do the ritual prayers again, I'm worried there's not enough evidence for these and I'd be following the mullahs instead of God and going to hell.
-
Sarah
If you just want to know whether or not you should pray three times a day by standing, bowing, prostrating and glorifying God alone then that's easily solved by the fact that doing so would only please our Lord. While to avoid it is taking a risk. And because the Qur'an mentions these things so its not entirely invented.
But whether or not God commands us to do that in the Qur'an and what the details are for the ritual if that's true is a deeper topic that I don't have time for right now. And i'm still watching that guys video so maybe tomorrow I can reply again after I consider everything. But I'll keep praying three times a day because of the original reason, God willing. And that doesn't mean we should be doing extra activities to the point of monasticism either just because it seems like less of a risk.
Also welcome to the forum and may the peace, mercy and best blessings of God be upon you. I'm new here too but I'm not a new Muslim. All praise, thanks and glory be to God.
-
Peace
So basically, when I was sunni I prayed 5 times a day (or tried to/ had the intention), then I prayed 3 times a day and first one rakaat then 2 rakaat only because that was my new understanding of how much etc. I should pray so I did this for maybe 1-2 years. But now I watched these videos on Youtube
https//www.youtube.com/watch?v=35VY4Df-UBo
https//www.youtube.com/watch?v=4APNPrfRORQI think he's right...it was surprising to see that salat is not always translated as prayer. And apparently prostration and bowing - well the arabic terms being translated as such can mean something different.
Bonus question Do you pray? How do you pray? Why do you pray the way you do?
I feel guilty not praying but from my understanding the person in the video said it means reading the Qur'an 3 times a day...and the only prayer is du'a and obviously not praying to anyone other than God.
On one hand, I'm worried my new understanding not not praying ritual prays but rather reading Qur'an regularly is wrong and if I were to die I'd go to Hell...on the other hand, if I were to do the ritual prayers again, I'm worried there's not enough evidence for these and I'd be following the mullahs instead of God and going to hell.
Peace dear Sara...
Keep doing what you are doing and keep learning what you learn and look for guidance only from God.... Wavering and changing in any of the activities with knowledge is fine... That's the point of guidance and misguidance... But never waver or slacken in the belief of One God and don't equal to Him anything.... And be good in morals and keep helping poor that's more than enough... Rest are bonus.... Simply never deny Him knowingly....
God bless you and family.... -
Peace Sarah,
Continue using your reason and taking Qur'an as the criterion. Everything else is secondary.
Like you, me too was sunni, used to pray(which the society taught me) 5 times in a day.
And now I am with the view that the regular/timed salat of the mumineen/believers is a minimum of twice daily, with an optional night vigil.I used to start the 'Isha salat just before the sunset (if possible, before sun touching the horizon) until the darkness of night or more. And fajr(dawn) salat usually until sunrise.
My salat involves reciting/reading the Quran (I used to stand) and ending with sujud(glorifying/praising/acknowledging/ feel the submission), e.g. 17:111 “Praise be to God who has not taken a child, nor does He have a partner in sovereignty, nor does He have an ally out of weakness."
—physical prostration is up to the believer in my understandingSome of the verses, (When- 4103, 11114, 1778 &How- 56, 443, 2144, 2014, 4102, 17110, 17111, 4101)
In addition to the timed salat, based on these verses (e.g. 30:17,18 ; 20:130 ; 50:39,40 ; 52:48,49), I used to remember God (thank, praise, glorify, seek forgiveness etc. as possible) before surise and before sunset, other edges of the day (around mid-morning, noon, mid-afternoon) & at night, though remembrance of God is not limited to these moments.
"...and remember/mention God much so that you may succeed." (62:10)
Peace and best wishes
Update: Post updated with corrections/ added new content. Responses may refer to the original version.
-
Wa alaykum assalam Sultan Brandon,
nice name hahaI understand your stance on salat...maybe if you ever interpret it differently than praying 3 times a day, let us know your thoughts on this...
Thank you for the welcome May God bless you and have mercy on you too brother...I thought you were new because I only seen your name on free-minds recently...actually been reading people's views on this forum for months but decided to join...
-
Salat is to align our nature with NATURE / ENERGY / EcoLogic .. do this and death is as natural as sleep...
-
Salaam Sarah
This is my humble understanding at present from Quran
-
Salat means to follow closely so I try to understand what commands are given before the command of "aqims salat" in Quran, and try to understand what needs to be followed in my life.
-
There is no single verse in Quran giving us detail of performing "ritual prayer".
-
In the matter of "Deen" we are supposed to follow what God has revealed and not others or our elders
2170
And when it is said to them follow what Allah has revealed they say, nay we follow what we found our elders on........
3121
And when it is said to them follow what Allah has revealed they say nay we follow what we found our elders on....
I have stopped doing "ritual prayer" in the light of above facts. I do not want to be among that majority, who do not believe in God unless they attach partner to Him
12106
And majority of them do not believe in Allah except for they are "Mushrikoon".
In my humble understanding a "mushrik" is one who takes other's commands to follow, as compared to Allah's commands.
God bless you.
-
-
-
wassalam Novice,
so if you follow closely does that mean you read Qur'an 3 times a day? Because if salat doesn't mean prayer but following closely and there are salat fajr, wustah and isha, that means we have to read from the Quran 3 times a day?
A momin is in the state of salat all the times when he/she is following God's guidance as preserved for us in Quran. We can study Quran as many time as we desire but idea is to follow it in all our decisions, to best of our ability.
This topic has been discussed many times on this forum. e.g.
https//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9765.0
Here is a link for Brother wakas's article for reflection
http//www.mypercept.co.uk/articles/disproved_traditional_salat.htm
God bless you
-
peace,
You have to do what you think is right based on your understanding at the time, whilst continuing to study, and evolve your practice as your knowledge increases etc.
My personal understanding is here
http//mypercept.co.uk/articles/slw.htmNote that some make the claim that "salat" is "following closely" ONLY without any regular/timed component but this is patently false as per Quran (e.g. 2238-239, 4101, 4103, 5106, 6210).*
In order to know what to apply/follow one must read/study the guidebook. Quite simply understanding and application go hand in hand. One is related to the other, and that is why (in my opinion) The Quran has taken a simple yet effective approach, see above article.
*Reference
http//mypercept.co.uk/articles/quran_on_salat.htm -
Note that some make the claim that "salat" is "following closely" ONLY without any regular/timed component but this is patently false as per Quran (e.g. 2238-239, 4101, 4103, 5106, 6210).*
Salaam wakas
You have done a great job in writing your article about salat. We all strive to increase our understanding of Quran. I would love to learn and improve my understanding of salat.
I would really appreciate if you could explain your understanding of "regular/timed component" of the Quranic term "As-salat". Your article just mentions it without giving any explanation.
Regards
-
peace,
I would really appreciate if you could explain your understanding of "regular/timed component" of the Quranic term "As-salat". Your article just mentions it without giving any explanation.
Quote from article
To gain a better understanding of The System/Obligation, it is clear a better understanding of al quran would be required. That is why a regular/timed salat is given. In this regular/timed salat, reading / reflection / oration of al quran is prescribed. This can be done alone or in a group/community setting.
Verses linking slw to al quran 243-45, 4103, 512-13, 7169-170, 82-3, 1958-59, 2945, 312-7, 3333-34, 1778-79, 731-4, 7320.
the salat should be done during/close to the morning & evening twilight times (i.e. a minimum of 2x per day)
When one undertakes this regular/timed salat, one should follow the specific guidelines given, e.g be clean , clear mind , moderate tone (although this may only apply when in groups due to the context of this verse) etc.
This regular/timed salat is only obligatory upon the mumin (believers/faithful/trustful), see 4103. Mumin is different to muslim. This is a very important point to consider.......
.......This makes sense because it is only the mumin (believers/faithful/trustful) who are upholding the scripture. For them, to uphold/maintain the going/turning towards (i.e. link/bond) will be more specific and thus directly related to what the scripture contains, hence reading of it regularly. In other words knowing what the bond entails goes hand in hand with its application.
-
Peace Sarah.
I know I conversed on "Salat" many times. But I wonder where does the contact prayer originate from?To date no one has answered this question and came up with a human origin. They claim Zoroastrians, Persians?.Or even before that time but with no evidence. If someone has evidence please show us?
I have no doubt that what some call a "ritual" has not been invented by man.
Wrongly performed, abused and taken lightly by man ,then yes I agree.First, according to my understanding from Qoran
Here is a clue to why "salat"The soul and Him who created it. Then showed it what is evil and what is good. Successful is one who redeems it. Failing is one who neglects it.
Then there is
You shall Utlu/recite what is revealed to you of the scripture, and Aquimi Salat, for the Salat prohibits evil and vice. But the remembrance of God (through Salat) is the most important objective. God knows everything you do.Taught by God to Abraham and passed down through the generations.
But of course that is my understanding!
Sorry there is more?
All that was asked of them was to Ubudu God, devoting the deen absolutely to Him alone, "wa Uquimu Salat", and give Zakat Such is the perfect deen.It is free, beneficial, healthy.. Dedicated to GOD Alone and done with a pure intention and heart, it is one of the best things that will benefit humans and cement their relationship with their creator. It stops corruption, bad deeds, bad morals, greed , humbles the person and cleanses the body and soul. One of the best nourishment to our souls.
Happy salat ? If one wishes to do it.
One may say where is the verse/s that tells you exactly all the steps of how to do it?
Qoran has not left no inexplicable things . How much more details do we need for something as consistently preserved as salat?
Do we need to know the details of how to eat and drink, do other things that we learn by observation and see regularly from others?
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
Peace Sarah.
I know I conversed on "Salat" many times. But I wonder where does the contact prayer originate from?To date no one has answered this question and came up with a human origin. They claim Zoroastrians, Persians?.Or even before that time but with no evidence. If someone has evidence please show us?
the method of sunni/shai pray is the somewhat same method how everybody else pray with some different touch of tradition/s.
sunni shia copied their method from jews.
mistakenly sunni/shia using word SALAT for pray although they should use DUA.
now see and compare all those things and their origin.
prostration = ( lord of land ) king/empror
people used to get it done from public. as a ritual of accepting highness.bow and kneel = same people get it done on different occassion making a master happy.
slowly slowly generation after generation tradition after tradition. give shapes to all those rituals at one time kings are not more controlleable.
lets introduce diety for worship.
new package ( sacrifices) as well as phyical gymnastics
give lamb to God when god finished eating scholar should take lamb home now lol.make sure everybodys method is different or unique from others.
example its a tradition when ever any nation want a quick pray they raise their both hands. in old times when they beg from kings they raise their hands like this. pray of beg. pr
even at this age in third world countries see how people are reacting towards landlords they feel owned by their masters/lords and when theybstand infront of them their hands are on their belly like a traditional sunni prayer.
its all sound logical if done for human. these things can only make human happy.
it must b a difference between Human and God ?does God require our gymnastic or does he require we sujood(submit) him in our hearts thats whats sounds more logical becoz he can feel and see the hearts. so bowing down is not a cup of tea for God.
human king is unable to see inside hearts thats why satisfying his ego he force people to prostrate him physically. if someone say no just kill him. fear factor installed.
these scholars of sunni shia still think themsleves as kings of society so when u prostrate behind them after that they will get lot of things done from you. and u cant say NO. lol specially they wil say u to bring food for them so that God get happy lol. hahaha
brother Gl b confident on your God.
a logical mind cant make negetive ideas about universal God. -
Brother Imran.
The spiritual and the physical go hand in hand.
GOD gives us an instruction to "wash before Aquimi Salat" in 56 is that not spiritual and physical?Is that not a ritual/ Since it does not ask us to clean the parts that need it most -like under the arms, down below etc.-?
Is this not a question of "hear and obey" instruction?Our logic and GOD s trial of our convictions are not compatible. Ego stands in the way.
But we are free to do or not to do.
More important things than Salat are our deeds and intention. That I agree with anybody on.
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
when we want to see community we usually take shower isnt it?
when we cut hairs we do it for ourselves.
when we eat we do it for ourselves.
when we do exercise we do it for us.may b someone doing exercise and praying at same time give a shape to tradition called namaz. no harm in it.
its due to a reason there is no method of ritual called namaz.(in quran)
but yeh quran suggest (momins) only to establish their salah.(establishing sala & reading namaz) two different sets of things.God just guiding us what to do when go for community salah its for our own good to take shower and hygiene things because same thing mother and father said to get ready before we see any community.
all methods are very normal.
example oh who you beleive, wear nice/clean cloth before establishing your community salah. so we cannot say cloth are procedure for salah but its a requirement for community. if you go naked in community God will defo advise you to wear cloths.
try understand abolution in that way. author is telling us cleaning your body water is best thing. if no water then sand/soil etc.
all communities take shower as a ritual almost everyday. its also a part of duty to take care urselves. another example god can advise before u go community sala make sure eat something.
-
Oh and another thing to go with my earlier post.
There is a connection between "Salat" and purifying /feeding your soul? It has nothing to do with GOD s needs as GOD does not need anything .
Whatever you think salat is , make sure you are certain, because a person" yatazakka" with salat!!!!
3518
No soul can carry the sins of another soul. If a soul that is loaded with sins implores another to bear part of its load, no other soul can carry any part of it, even if they were related. The only people to heed your warnings are those who reverence their Lord, even when alone in their privacy, and observe the Salat. Whoever purifies his soul, does so for his own good. To God is the final destiny.3529
Surely, those who recite the book of God, observe the Salat, and from our provisions to them they spend - secretly and publicly - are engaged in an investment that never loses.What this thread and other threads about salat have shown is some believe in a " salat" as a contact prayer and some do not!!!!!!! Modst of what needs to be said have been said about it.
For me the preparation and timing of "Aquimi Salat" for other meanings do not work but a "contact prayer" consolidates them.
While I agree other verses with "Salat" in them can give other meanings to it.
GOD bless.
Peace.
