Issue with Salat/ prayer

[jkhan]

Peace jkhan.
You cannot argue against that point. Unless of course you are insisting on your WRONG way.
Are you saying the grammar is wrong? GOD is not precise?
What is it you are saying, that GOD meant the sun and its brightness are the "HA"? Then the grammar is wrong?

Then you say, quote

Note if God says Sunset to Sunrise = night and Sunrise to sunset = Day, then all day and night verses of Quran should support it without any contractions.... Coz QURAN is not a book of discrepancies...
Sun is hidden behind mountains doesn't mean, sun is covered so night... Sun is covered behind a tall building at the horizon doesn't mean Sun is covered so sun set and night... Night falls when the light fades off...

Brother,the only precise measure for day and night is---Sunset and sunrise-. Yes precision to the second all over the world. Clear day time and nightime.
When you say twighlights/ dawn how accurate are you going to be ? How dim do you want the dawn before you start the day?
Your sun hiding behind a building is a joke. Surely you are not serious? The sun may be hiding from you but not from your brother/ sister on the other side of the building? Qoran says the earth hides it(it is called night on earth). Night and day are the earth movement brother!!!

Common , I do not believe I am reading all these nonsense statement from you. Even children know that the shawdow means that the sun is there still!!! whether the sun is behind a building or a skyscraper.

You want to be taken seruiously, then speak some sense brother. You are better than what you are saying.
GOD bless you.
Peace.

Dear brother GL....Peace

All over the world acceptance is not what I am following and even you are not following in most of the things if your life is based on QURAN....
Science may define night not start at sunset and at the same time other scientists may say it starts at sunset... If you research you will find...
I can't convince you and it is not my aim and duty.... You are a matured man you have vision and knowledge you research and find out... And there is no barrier for knowledge unless it's a dead age where we lose memory...
You have not read me right... I am not someone who will ever say God is wrong.... There is nothing wrong by God calling HA... Did I say so.. No....?
But if you take only sun and neglecting the brightness it is wrong.. Then it is almost like only the sun goes down the horizon not the brightness... Dude.. Go out and see at least one day with the verses in your hand and see what happens with nature....
Research a comprehensive research with all night and day verses and submit here and let people understand what is the definition of night and day given in QURAN..... Isn't that a very critical topic for us since many of our practices are based on that...
After all understanding the quran is not possible personally unless God clarifies... Isn't that true.... Beg to God for clarification with only purpose of guidance and not for any other reason ... Then in sha Allah you may see..
People are full of knowledge and they can deny my understanding is wrong purely with Quran ..then who will benefit.. Myself and all. Based on all discussion people can use their wits and research and conclude... It's not a subject to be kept hanging.. Coz its a subject which is part and parcel of our routine life
Keep it up...
Meanwhile why i mentioned sun behind mountains.... Once it goes from our vision and then it becomes as setting.. And does not reappear.... Mountains are not horizon... Horizon is horizontal.... Your claim is when sun is covered behind horizon it is night...it can't be...
Try to get it

[imrankhawaja]

Meanwhile why i mentioned sun behind mountains.... Once it goes from our vision and then it becomes as setting.. And does not reappear.... Mountains are not horizon... Horizon is horizontal....

its good to see they are going back to basic mathematics and its our destiny to tell them about the selection of words and lines what we can use for both mountains and for horizon.

here is a defination quick one.

In geometry, a horizontal line is one which runs from left to right across the page. It comes from the word 'horizon', in the sense that horizontal lines are parallel to the horizon. Its cousin is the vertical line which runs up and down the page. A vertical line is perpendicular to a horizontal line.

you guys are just two years behind in YEAR 1. nice progress. bravo

http//static.studyladder.com/cdn/course/19/ce6062a85a2e.jpg

perhaps its helps understanding lines of year 3.

can i ask you one question jkhan if u dnt mind telling whats ur education source/institute was ? when u start schooling and how much marks u achieve in mathematics when u was giving year 10 exams ? you can ask me same thing if u r interested.(dont take it personally just curiousity)

[good_logic]

Peace jkhan.

I cannot believe that you are still arguing about "HA" and saying this is not singular about the "sun".. You know the brightness has been mentioned separate ,hence the "HA" is for the sun.

Simple criteria of grammar says the day REVEALS the sun---We can see the sun or its shadows ,like when it is behind a building. And night HIDES the sun, we cannot see the sun(That bright round thing ), it is gone beyond the horizon(The one brother Imran explained it to you!).

What is it that you are still not clear about?
Sun above the horizon, or some part of it still above---Not its brightness---Means it is day
.
Sun below the horizon ---regardless of sun brightness or moon above it brightness---Means it is night. When the night is really dark ,this is another part of the night-Ghassaki Al Leyl- like the day has different parts ,example morning and afternoon. The night also has different parts.
Surely you got it now?
GOD bless you.
Peace.

[jkhan]

Peace jkhan.

I cannot believe that you are still arguing about "HA" and saying this is not singular about the "sun".. You know the brightness has been mentioned separate ,hence the "HA" is for the sun.

Simple criteria of grammar says the day REVEALS the sun---We can see the sun or its shadows ,like when it is behind a building. And night HIDES the sun, we cannot see the sun(That bright round thing ), it is gone beyond the horizon(The one brother Imran explained it to you!).

What is it that you are still not clear about?
Sun above the horizon, or some part of it still above---Not its brightness---Means it is day
.
Sun below the horizon ---regardless of sun brightness or moon above it brightness---Means it is night. When the night is really dark ,this is another part of the night-Ghassaki Al Leyl- like the day has different parts ,example morning and afternoon. The night also has different parts.
Surely you got it now?
GOD bless you.
Peace.

I
Peace all
@GL
I know what I am explaining but if you can't grasp, it's Not my fault... research and explain if you are believing night starts at sunset... Till then take care

5039 ?So be patient, over what they say and exalt with praise of your Lord before the rising of the sun and before its setting,?
Needless to say TWO ENDS when God already has mentioned words of sunrise and sunset in the book, if two ends are same as sunrise and sunset?.He would have mentioned the same in 11114 but instead mentioned TWO ENDS with intention. God is very precise in usage of words, For example ? Establish salat before sunrise and after sunset, but nearness of night? Did God mention so.. No? but you are taking it as such which He has not mentioned?making contradiction when God is not ?

25 47 ?And it is He who has made the night for you (as) clothing/covering and sleep (as) rest and has made the day(nahar) a resurrection(Nushura).?

Why God Should call the NAHAR (DAY) as Nushura while calling the Night as Libasa?ponder over it pls..

Point to think of verse 1778 Sahih International ?Establish prayer at the decline of the sun until the darkness of the night and the Qur'an of dawn. Indeed, the recitation of dawn is ever witnessed.

I just took the above translation to post the below and not to support all translation of sahih?.

5039 uli l-shamsi= Rising Sun - Agreed

50 39 l-ghurbi ( l-shamsi) = Setting Sun ?Agreed

1778 dulki l-shamsi = why then this becomes again ?Setting Sun???? Not agreed ?.

Just coz the word(Duluk) appears only once in quran so any meaning would suit?. No way?. It is declining of Sun ?in simple language declining from the Culmination point (Sun being Highest at Midday) or as they say Meridian ?.
God guide us...

[good_logic]

Peace jkhan.
I can see that you are not really paying attention to what is being said to you.
You want to change the meaning of the verses that define day and night but you cannot change the grammar.
So you are stuck.
Regardless of you said or are going to say, "HA" is for the sun only.
I am not repeating myself to you. All the other stuff you are talking about is irrelevant to the point I made.
Thank you and GOD bless you.
Peace.

[imrankhawaja]

can i ask you one question jkhan if u dnt mind telling whats ur education source/institute was ? when u start schooling and how much marks u achieve in mathematics when u was giving year 10 exams ? you can ask me same thing if u r interested.(dont take it personally just curiousity)

this will tell us a little bit introduction about ur skills and intellect and your interests.

[jkhan]

Peace jkhan.
I can see that you are not really paying attention to what is being said to you.
You want to change the meaning of the verses that define day and night but you cannot change the grammar.
So you are stuck.
Regardless of you said or are going to say, "HA" is for the sun only.
I am not repeating myself to you. All the other stuff you are talking about is irrelevant to the point I made.
Thank you and GOD bless you.
Peace.

I never said HA is only for Sun... But for both (Sun and brightness) and god has taken it as one with meaning... If I am stuck bring evidence then I will accept if you are right... Till then research pls. Rather you keep saying youraelf that I am stuck that has no value... So bring a thorough research and present and let people go through and let them personally decide who's stuck and what is truth.... Forget the person I am... Just read the Quran and feel whether you are stuck or not.. Take what you feel.. After all it's your decision of taking and leaving a matter... That could be right and wrong...
Whatever I have written is not only for your question but also for all who take night start at sunset... So anyone can bring if they want...
Don't omit a single verse of Quran bring all night and day and support the claim... You can't and I challenge.... Coz truth is ONE... Approach it...

[good_logic]

Peace jkhan.
I do not need to go further than "HA" is for the sun. You are saying this

I never said HA is only for Sun... But for both (Sun and brightness) and god has taken it as one with meaning... If I am stuck bring evidence then I will accept if you are right...

Then Qoran has a grammar mistake. It should be "HUMA" for sun and brightness. If you say GOD includes both as one then this is your mistake and assumption as Qoran has no mistakes.
Do you really see what you are arguing?
If not, then your Arabic language needs improvement.
GOD bless you.
Peace.

[Wakas]

peace GL, jkhan,

This issue has been mentioned before and unless someone can bring some new evidence based on grammar then it is as follows
https//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9608453.msg389009#msg389009

Quote

"sun/shams" is a feminine noun. "brightness/duha" is a masculine noun. Thus

By the sun and its brightness.
And the moon that follows it.
And the "nahar" (day) that reveals it.
And the "layl" (night) that covers it.

[centi50]

Salam to All,

With me i do salat 3 time a day Fajr, noon and Isha. I do it with ruku and sujud and in regards to units I dont have a number sometimes I do it two, sometimes 3 sometimes 5. I recite what I can from the Quran and I glorify my creator, also I do supplication in my salat. I don't do tashahud.

That's it with me

God bless you all

[kaltun]

Slm centi50,

why do you recite the Quran during your pray (Namaz) ? means this you holding the Quran in your hand while you pray.

I do it with ruku and sujud and in regards to units I dont have a number sometimes I do it two, sometimes 3 sometimes 5

indeed there is no written how many time you do , its you decision agains Allah, this makes more sense than the obligatory movements what is written, like some of my friends saying , ooops its time to pray ,i will pray quickly and come to you ... do you see what i mean ....

do you also say the dua of ettehiyyat? if you , i would not do it sinse you say
i glorify my creator

may Allah accept your dua's and Insha Allah we will guide to the strait path

[good_logic]

Peace wakas.

So you agree with what I am saying?
GOD bless you.
Peace.

[Noon_waalqalami]

"sun/shams" is a feminine noun. "brightness/duha" is a masculine noun. Thus

By the sun and its brightness.
And the moon that follows it.
And the "nahar" (day) that reveals it.
And the "layl" (night) that covers it.

correct!

https//i.postimg.cc/4xFWp2zJ/ch90v4-ch91v14.jpg

peace!

[imrankhawaja]

Technical points and complex grammer is really very hard for Weak minds to understand.

the real challange come when u have to explain it to the ?one? who have not a ability to learn/understand.

we have a perfect example of members from flat earth community who are still interesting in understanding the basic/begginers concepts of math/drawings/grammer/cosmology etc.
and unfortunately in the end they never learn anything. ( even they felt their defeat in multiple occassions)

its a situation when teacher gives up on his/her student assuming that he/she have not that ability to learn.

may b he/shez good at something else like ?fakery?.

@ bro wakas
lem me guess the next comments by flatearthers.
they will say you in arabic its masculine what if in srilenkan language its feminine?

1 first they reject a model of earth from nasa becoz quran said its flat lol.
2 they they reject mathematics/drawings becoz athiests are producers of math rotfl
3 now they will reject the grammer of quran becoz grammer of bible/gita/veda is different then Quran in selection of genders.hahahahaha.

they are careless people dont know ?point 1? firing back at point 3 hmm

BTW in ?urdu? its true sun consider as masculine gender where light consider as feminine gender.

[jkhan]

Peace all believers....

Quran is clear what it says... How much people twist and depend on dictionary to change its built in meaning....

921 " And (By) the Night as it Conceals
922 "And (By) the Day as it appears in glory;

Who taught you to say sun is feminine and brightness is masculine... That's all nonsensical assumption... Did you forget... God took sun as masculine and moon is feminine in Yousuf dream to depict father and mother... But here moon also masculine in corpus.. As IK says in our language also moon feminine... I don't trust what people created...

Quran translation and applying feminine and masculine is human assumption .. Assumption is not equal to truth...
For example.. Some consider Allah as masculine and some proper noun... No concerted application...
You can take many a example... In 235
Shaitan is masculine and Adam is masculine while his partner is also masculine and Janna is feminine....
They are mere assumption... Like we call the earth she... We don't mind... But in reality they are not... only two genders by god and it fits only two what it deserve... Not out assumptions...

You guys dragging one another waqas's tail... Even he is confused... When people say sun rise... basically no one would say sun and brightness rise... Nonsense... Even before run rise brightness appears... You guys don't even give a thought why God mentioned brightness in the chapter... Total ignorance...

If one can say I take in 911-3 as sun only and another can say I take the brightness only... For God both one whole thing.... What's wrong with you people intellect, specially waqas.... No need to go in the foot board while there are lots of seats in the bus... Catching a very single verse and manipulate according to taste... While neglecting all. Other verses...
Meanwhile very interesting thing my Distant uncle who is in Cairo says word THALA in 913 is not Follow... I thought he is kidding.. Then I checked corpus.. All other 60 plus occasions are meaning recite... Got to research why it only became follow... Or it is up to anyone who is interested may research...
Human has body and soul and we say.. He walkS and not He walk without S just coz he =body + soul

May god guide us

[jkhan]

peace GL, jkhan,

This issue has been mentioned before and unless someone can bring some new evidence based on grammar then it is as follows
https//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9608453.msg389009#msg389009

Quote

"sun/shams" is a feminine noun. "brightness/duha" is a masculine noun. Thus

By the sun and its brightness.
And the moon that follows it.
And the "nahar" (day) that reveals it.
And the "layl" (night) that covers it.

Peace Everyone...

Below are the few excerpts from Brother Waqas?s Article?

?O you who believe! Obey Allah and Obey the Messenger and do not turn back from HIM <anhu> while you hear? (820)
Here the believers are identified to be those who were listening to the Messenger who delivers the Qur?anic laws to them, as the singular pronoun ?anhu? (from him) indicates. This confirms that Allah and His Messenger are not two separate sources of law to be obeyed, but that the source of Divine law to be obeyed is ONLY Allah and ONLY the people are able to hear these divine laws through the LIPS of His Messenger.
Isn?t Allah and Messenger taken as one source of message?

We can say here in 0820 obey Allah is different and Obey Messenger is different so the grammar (anHU ? from HIM) is wrong?. As per Waqas No.. And as per all those who take quran only NO? otherwise they won?t take quran only? So here (anHUMA ? from THEM) is not mentioned and still grammar is correct.. Though Allah and Mohamed is separate, the core here is to obey the message coming from Allah to His represented Messenger, so it in the end what we Obey is GOD and not Mohamed?it means ONE thing.. Here ANHU (HIM) means = Allah + His Message

That?s why I say SUN (OBJECT) + BRIGHTNESS = ONE THING( Inseparable)? that?s why "HA" is used instead of HUMA by GOD precisely.....

There are more examples if you read and crack?.

[Noon_waalqalami]

Peace all believers....

salmun alayka

Quran is clear what it says... How much people twist and depend on dictionary to change its built in meaning....

921 " And (By) the Night as it Conceals
922 "And (By) the Day as it appears in glory;

Who taught you to say sun is feminine and brightness is masculine... That's all nonsensical assumption...

911 wal-shamsi/and/by the sun (f) wauh/and brightness (m) hers/its (f) (the sun)
912 wal-qamari/and/by the moon (m) when talh/follow (m) her/it (f) (the sun)
913 wal-nahri/and/by the daytime (m) when jallh/display (m) her/it (f) (the sun)
914 wa-al-layli/and/by the night (m) when yaghshh/covered (m) her/it (f) (the sun)

In the Arabic language it literally pronounced "her" e.g. display "her" or covered "her" (i.e. the sun).

921 and/by the night (m) when yaghsh/covered (m)
922 and/by the daytime (m) when tajall/it shine brightness (m)

Did you forget... God took sun as masculine and moon is feminine in Yousuf dream to depict father and mother... But here moon also masculine in corpus.. As IK says in our language also moon feminine... I don't trust what people created...

124 when said yusuf to father his O father mine indeed I I saw aada/one (1) ashara/ten (10) kawkaban/star of wal-shamsa/and the sun wal-qamara/and the moon saw them to me sjidna/prostration

Watched serious last night (fast forward) in Turkish with Albanian subtitles
https//youtu.be/n0L5cavKPo0?list=PLlouynQBS-3fgCilY7gt1yPIB3OgHiYLg

Meanwhile very interesting thing my Distant uncle who is in Cairo says word THALA in 913 is not Follow... I thought he is kidding.. Then I checked corpus.. All other 60 plus occasions are meaning recite...

talh/follows (masculine) her/it (f)
1015 and when tutla/thou recite (feminine) upon them verses ours clear

likewise, according to distant uncle with gender/word confusion
...and/by the moon when ?recite? (wrong word/gender) her/it ?

[jkhan]

salmun alayka

911 wal-shamsi/and/by the sun (f) wauh/and brightness (m) hers/its (f) (the sun)
912 wal-qamari/and/by the moon (m) when talh/follow (m) her/it (f) (the sun)
913 wal-nahri/and/by the daytime (m) when jallh/display (m) her/it (f) (the sun)
914 wa-al-layli/and/by the night (m) when yaghshh/covered (m) her/it (f) (the sun)

In the Arabic language it literally pronounced "her" e.g. display "her" or covered "her" (i.e. the sun).

921 and/by the night (m) when yaghsh/covered (m)
922 and/by the daytime (m) when tajall/it shine brightness (m)

124 when said yusuf to father his O father mine indeed I I saw aada/one (1) ashara/ten (10) kawkaban/star of wal-shamsa/and the sun wal-qamara/and the moon saw them to me sjidna/prostration

Watched serious last night (fast forward) in Turkish with Albanian subtitles
https//youtu.be/n0L5cavKPo0?list=PLlouynQBS-3fgCilY7gt1yPIB3OgHiYLg

talh/follows (masculine) her/it (f)
1015 and when tutla/thou recite (feminine) upon them verses ours clear

likewise, according to distant uncle with gender/word confusion
...and/by the moon when ?recite? (wrong word/gender) her/it ?

Peace NW
Moon = Mother is just your assumption and SUN = Father as well.....
Yaqoob is the key figure here... he was a prophet...and mother is not at all mentioned in the chapter 12... and Yusuf's brothers most of them were notorious... they were mean and insignificant when compared with SUN and MOON so they are kawkaban....assumption and just merely from dictionary won't help understanding quran...sorry for that..

I know about the knowledge of my uncle.. He is a graduate in one of the leading arabic universities of Cairo.... though his father was from Peshawar, pakistan...
Nevertheless... he didnt tell me what is the meaning of THALA but asked me to search self... coz he knows i only accept what is right...
Did i Say THALA means RECITE in the verse 913... don't just concoct stories... i said i want to research...

GL = if i my memory is correct prays 5 times
Waqas + IK = 2 times
Centi = 03 times
hmmm
Novice = Closely following.. no ritual
for some other type like MI

@ NW... now tell me is that what quran says... complication?

Research and confirm all verses of night and day? that's the best way rather than bringing genders of feminine and masculine which human infused..

added note.. Even keep THALA "HA" as feminine as per your understanding... then why not as one whole thing of SUN+BRIGHTNESS.. Why separate it? WHEN feminine and masculine join together how do you say ? HA.... lol

Note well these gender assignment of feminine and masculine is based on mere personalize factors... it varies language to language coz of the belief and acceptance in the society what a matter belongs to ... for example SAMA = Feminine ...for what reason it is feminine? just mere conviction based on culture mingled with languages... but quran cannot be taken for granted..

[jkhan]

just take a look of the verse 917
Wanafsi wama sawwaha
meaning .... " .. and the soul who proportioned it .."

Here NAFS = SOUL (feminine)... for what reason it is feminine

so it reads like " And the Soul(feminine) who proportioned HER... total nonsense..

918 And He inspired HER, HER wickedness and HER righteousness.... nope

919 He(masculine) succeeds who purifies HER (ZakkaHA).... laugh rotfl

9110 And indeed He(masculine) fails who buries HER (DassaHA)

9111 Thamud denied by HER transgression (BithaghwaHA) laugh

[Noon_waalqalami]

when u have to explain it to the ?one? who have not a ability to learn/understand.

yes, although we explain to benefit others perhaps; need "time out" forum for the ignorant.

2855 and when hear they of the nonsense turns away they of from it and said they of for us deeds ours and for you deeds yours peace upon you! not we seek the ignorant