How Authentic is the Quran?
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Thank You TheNabi & Wakas but it still doesn't answer my question
What criteria does al-quraan use for authentication for the real al-quraan....if there are many versions whether it be small letter additions or deletions how do we know which one is the REAL thing???
Please do explain ?
PEACE
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Jaxal Thats for you. Dont be an angry man mquran. You need to calm down. This is a forum for discussion. Be decent. Not everyone believes in some crap like Quran is anti-democratic or that the criteria to be a messenger is to have good presentation skills. You need to learn how to not take things personally
Angry? Does Homer Simpson make me angry? You have the same effect on me as Homer Simspon. If you believe the quran teaches democracy, why don't you prove it. It will involve reading and opening the quran though, that's the thing. You can't even understand a simple deduction, its shameful. Go back to preschool, Homer. It'll help, believe me.
2PACIf scientists can prove that goatskin is dated close to Prophet Muhammeds time then it might be something worth looking into because if there's different versions of the Quran which ONE is the correct one. Please tell me what criteria has al-quraan used for authentication for the correct one??Sorry if I come across as being pessimist but things like this need to be addressed
Ok, lets say they can 'prove' the approximation of the date. Does that prove Mohamed approved of it? The jump from date approximation to Mohamed's authentication is rather far. Can I ask you, can someone else not have written it? Can you know for sure? If you cannot, then I suggest you employ the Quran's internal criteria. Homer Simpson obviously doesn't have the brains to do it and he's a sunni-wannabe anyway. Why don't you give it a try?
Al-quraan starts with the assertion of the protection of az-zikr. Az-zikr, if you check 68/4 , means 'the one in eminence'. This is your starting point. Go anywhere in the world and check for the one in eminence. Al-quraan anywhere is one and the same. Secondly, its in 'lisaanun arabiyun mubiin' (16/103). Check your manuscripts and you will see that its ambiguities are very telling. I mentioned before that Ayman tried to manipulate the meaning of 30/1 , saying instead of the romans being defeated, the romans defeated. He could only do that to an ambigious text, but never to the one in eminence. Third and fourthly, please see wakas and joe's post.
hope that helps.
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Can I ask you, can someone else not have written it? Can you know for sure? If you cannot, then I suggest you employ the Quran's internal criteria
But which Quran you talking about?? What if the Quran you have now is not the one revealed to Muhammed letter to letter?? I kind of understood the eminence part i.e az-zikr but I cant get my head around it properly.....i'll pray to God to get me to the truth but please elaborate further for me about the Quranic criteria.
PEACE
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i hope ur not making this personal mquran. Why do you continue to embaress yourself? You couldnt refute it. Simple as that. So far, no one has been able to refute it. Stop the useless rants about how i dont understand this or that. Learn to discuss or debate an issue with decency, respect and knowledge. If you dont have anything USEFUL to add, then no one is forcing you to post. LEarn from your mistakes. I brought the evidence. You couldnt refute it. This isnt an ego contest where you continue making childish remarks or come back with some quip. IF you couldnt refute it then call it experiance and move on. We all , at some point or another experiance this. You just experianced yours. Take it in pride. NOT rant and rave ur frustrations out on the forum. If you have a problem with me, send me a pm and we can sort it out there. The forum isnt ur personal space to flush out ur frustrations.
Joe Is it that you dont know the answer, or you simply dont want to answer it? Who was the Torah given to?
BTW 2Pac, I am still looking for a verse from the Quran which says that Quran is a complete book. No one so far has been able to give me a verse. If you find one, will you plz forward it to me? I cant seem to find it in the Quran either.
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Salaam Jaxal,
Joe Is it that you dont know the answer, or you simply dont want to answer it? Who was the Torah given to?
I've been waiting for you to show me where the quran says that tauraat was given to musa. When you oblidge to that request than so shall I to yours.
Joe
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Salaam 2Pac,
But which Quran you talking about?? What if the Quran you have now is not the one revealed to Muhammed letter to letter?? I kind of understood the eminence part i.e az-zikr but I cant get my head around it properly.....i'll pray to God to get me to the truth but please elaborate further for me about the Quranic criteria.
It's fair question you ask. I believe what Allah tells me and I employ his methodolog and through his methodology, i come to the conclusion that the Quran coming from the land of pure Arabic to be the Quran Allah revealed (see 42/7, Al-quraan was IN ARABIC was revealed to the mother of the cities). So far, his methodology comforms to the reality around me. That is why I follow it, its a living reality , not a textually dead entity which depends upon museum-filled manuscripts.
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i hope ur not making this personal mquran.
Don't worry you're not worth getting riled up over.
Why do you continue to embaress yourself? You couldnt refute it. Simple as that. So far, no one has been able to refute it. Stop the useless rants about how i dont understand this or that. Learn to discuss or debate an issue with decency, respect and knowledge. If you dont have anything USEFUL to add, then no one is forcing you to post. LEarn from your mistakes. I brought the evidence. You couldnt refute it. This isnt an ego contest where you continue making childish remarks or come back with some quip. IF you couldnt refute it then call it experiance and move on. We all , at some point or another experiance this. You just experianced yours. Take it in pride. NOT rant and rave ur frustrations out on the forum. If you have a problem with me, send me a pm and we can sort it out there. The forum isnt ur personal space to flush out ur frustrations.
Ok, so you want to start again? We can discuss with 'decency, respect and knowledge'. Would you want to do that? If so, will you adhere to the principle of me answering one question of yours, then vice-versa? Is that ok with you ) Lets see how truthful you are, then )
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SaLaM Joe and mquran
Does Quran mentions not to marry 9 year olds even tho they reach their menstration cycle? Anyways, if we want to learn abou the Torah, then we have to pick up the Torah for that and learn basic of judaism.
Now tell me who was Torah revealed to.
mquran, why would i to continue discussing with you when you admit you cant refute the evidence? Give me 5 good reaons to do that.
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SaLaM Joe
shock What answer were you expecting? Apart from it being common knowledge that the Torah was given to Moses, i gave you a direct answer to your question. There wouldnt be any mention in the Quran about who are why the Torah was revealed. There is no reason to. But if you want to make sure that it IS Moses/Musa, study judaism. It wont bite.
Now, if you yourself dont know the answer, then that is another thing. But that is as clear of answer you will get .
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Salaam Jaxal,
Just to be clear, the quran never mentions that the Torah was given to Moses, but it just happens to mention that the Gospel was given to Jesus? Pray tell! If it is COMMON KNOWLEDGE. So indeed, why should Allah mention it. To tell you the truth, I would not follow your methodology to determining such a thing. Clearly there are soe kinks that need to be worked out.
Joe
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mquran, why would i to continue discussing with you when you admit you cant refute the evidence? Give me 5 good reaons to do that.
lol, i thought so. ok , thanks a lot for proving my point, homer. for the record, your so called evidence is easily refutable. why do you think 2pac doesnt pursue the question i asked
Ok, lets say they can 'prove' the approximation of the date. Does that prove Mohamed approved of it? The jump from date approximation to Mohamed's authentication is rather far. Can I ask you, can someone else not have written it? Can you know for sure?
Because anyone with a half a brain will realise that there is no way anyone can say anything was authenticated by Muhammad unless the Quran itself verifies it. However Homer, you seem lacking even that half.
The only reason you believe in manuscripts is because you got yourself into it and now your inability to understand, let alone refute is showing. I have to say, I havent met anyone like you before, but it takes all sorts, doesnt it..lol.
im done talking to you, but i'll continue to watch your 'torah conversation' with joe. hehe , its so funny watching him toy with you. Reminds me of my cat when she catchs a mouse....
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Does Quran mentions not to marry 9 year olds even tho they reach their menstration cycle? Anyways, if we want to learn abou the Torah, then we have to pick up the Torah for that and learn basic of judaism
Wow, now Homer's accusing God of approving of PAEDOPHILA. Amazing, this moron is simply amazing.
What answer were you expecting? Apart from it being common knowledge that the Torah was given to Moses, i gave you a direct answer to your question. There wouldnt be any mention in the Quran about who are why the Torah was revealed. There is no reason to. But if you want to make sure that it IS Moses/Musa, study judaism. It wont bite.
Common knowledge? no wonder he wants to go stone-kissing in mecca! its common knowldge. Is there a book called 'common knowledge by jaxal'? It will contains factoids like 'quran teaches democracy', 'quran says to do hajj in mecca', 'prophet muhammad married a nine year old because the quran says its ok' and other misdeeds. Broadmoor will have a good time studying this one...
LOL...'if you want to know moses , study JUDAISM?'. Oh boy..what a fellow ! Here's what Judaism thinks of Moses17Now therefore kill every male among the little ones and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him.
18But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.
According to Jaxal's 'torah' belief, MOSES said the above. No wonder Jaxal thinks the Quran approves of paedophilia. He's already got paedophilia on the brain thanks to 'moses' of the torah...lol
For Muslims reading this, please note that according to al-quraan, musa never said any such thing. This perverted book called the Torah is part of the Old Testament, a collection of stories about so-called 'Hebrew Prophets'. Sadly, the Sunnis have bought this 'previous scripture' theory and along with them are ppl who claim to be quranic but also think the quran approves of paedophila. Such people fail to actually open the quran and quote a single verse and so instead of speaking with thier mouths, thier rear-ends end up doing the talking...
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Ok, lets say they can 'prove' the approximation of the date. Does that prove Mohamed approved of it? The jump from date approximation to Mohamed's authentication is rather far. Can I ask you, can someone else not have written it? Can you know for sure? <---- this one
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Ok, lets say they can 'prove' the approximation of the date. Does that prove Mohamed approved of it? The jump from date approximation to Mohamed's authentication is rather far. Can I ask you, can someone else not have written it? Can you know for sure? <---- this one
Of course you cannot know for sure but my point is which one is authentic?? If there's different Quran's as in minor differences how do you know that YOU have the authenticated one by Muhammed when it was revealed??Can you know for sure too??We cannot escape that there are different Quran's out there and we cannot know for sure which is the definite one revealed to Muhammed.
PEACE
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SaLaM Joe
Again, who was the Torah given to according your methodology?
In your opinion , what does 11.17 says?
im done talking to you
After such a humiliation i put your through, why would talk to me D
its so funny watching him toy with you
Just like it was fun for me to toy with you with ur ridiculous claim of Quran being anti - democratic. Just like it was fun for me toy with ur reidiculour claim that the messenger needs to have good presentation skills. AND just like it was fun for me to toy with your ridiculour claim that Quran is not altered LOOOOOOOOOOOOOL rotfl rotfl
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Salaam Jaxal,
Again, who was the Torah given to according your methodology?
In your opinion , what does 11.17 says?
I will be blunt. Show me where the quran says the Allah has given tauraat to moosa. 1117 does not mention moosa being given tauraat. So please I am STILL awaiting your prompt response.
Joe
