Contradictions and inconsistencies in the quran?
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peace darbari and ab.
Darbari; You mean to tell me that you base your whole life-view and future on a book,that you dont even know where the verses are located? Im sure the posters who are defending the quran at all costs and regardless of the consequences will be able to help you... )
Ab; i will give you time to address my points,because you will probably need it to reflect on what you are saying...Which is nothing in particular,but emotion and hot air.. ). -
Peace all. I will repost a previous post in this thread as nobody seemed to tackle it...which should have been easy given some people have gods perfect clear words available in book form...
'What about the quran saying that allah doesnt change his ways(or sunnat or laws.) and then jesus being born without a father,adam with no father or mother,a stick turning into a snake,the splitting of the sea into two firm mountains,jesus speaking as a baby,fire not burning abraham,jonah in the belly of a whale etc...the above mentioned events are not in contradiction with His laws .
Can you all confirm and verify these events literally?...( remember 17;36.)
What do u think 1736 says , please tell us .
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peace darbari and ab.
Darbari; You mean to tell me that you base your whole life-view and future on a book,that you dont even know where the verses are located? Im sure the posters who are defending the quran at all costs and regardless of the consequences will be able to help you... )why dont u just quote the verses ? if u are having trouble finding the verses , this might help http//www.submission.org/quran/webqt.php
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peace darbari. Why dont you quote the verses?...I have given you the summary literal translation of the verses,now you refute the summary if you can or want to. If you or anyone else wants to quote then do so.
I was under the impression that some on this forum quoted 1736 to make sure you verify/know something before you follow it...Is that correct? Ie; 'Dont follow that of which you have no knowledge'?
How do the verses i posted agree with allahs verified laws,based on your real-life observations?...If you say allah can do anything,then he can also have a son...so the christians who believe that are correct too?
Peace all. -
Peace all
Enquirer, I posted about the verses you mentioned. I even posted the verses, since you didn't and you were the one claiming it. Oh well. Here, I'll quote my post since you haven't responded.
Peace all
I'd like to talk about 262 and 569 being 'in opposition' with 319 and 385, as enquirer mentioned.
Absolutely, these are not in opposition with each other. In fact, arranging them together is a very good idea.
Since enquirer failed to even bring forth the actual verses, I'll post the literal translation. Let's look at 262 and 385
That those who believed and those who repented/guided/Jews , and the Christians and the Sabians/converts , who believed with God and the Day the Last/Resurrection Day, and made/did correct/righteous deeds, so for them their reward (is) at their lord, and no fear/fright on them, and nor they be sad/grieving.
And who desires/wishes other than the Islam/submission/surrender (as) a religion, so (it) will never/not be accepted from him, and he (is) in the end from the losers.
Looking at 385, we can ask "What is considered Submission? What do I need to do to be a Submitter?"
And 262 clarifies that; to be a Submitter, one must
- Believe in God
- Believe in Resurrection Day
- Do righteous deeds
So the Christians, Jews, etc. who believe in God, Resurrection Day, and do righteous deeds, are indeed Submitters. The same goes for 319 and 569. It is that simple.
It's amazing how to one person, these two verses are 'in opposition with each other'; while to another person who is sincere to the Qur'an, one verse helps clarify the other.
Enquirer, I'd greatly appreciate you engaging in an actual discussion with me about this. I'd be very happy to do so. From what I've seen so far, you have claimed something, then when someone wanted to discuss your claim, you avoided it and insulted them. It seems you aren't here for discussion; but perhaps for other reasons. ???
God willing, you'll actually start discussing. After all, this is a forum.
Peace
You brought this topic, yet you haven't responded to it. I'd gladly discuss this with you. Thanks.
Peace
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Ab; i will give you time to address my points,because you will probably need it to reflect on what you are saying...Which is nothing in particular,but emotion and hot air.. ).
Peace
so far i have seen no points from you other than a typical anti islam, anti quran, and anti Allah rants, you don't even know how to do that sort of ranting, you are novice indeed
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peace darbari. Why dont you quote the verses?...
because it is YOU, not us , who thinks there are contradictions in the text . at least quote the text to support your claim .
I was under the impression that some on this forum quoted 1736 to make sure you verify/know something before you follow it...Is that correct? Ie; 'Dont follow that of which you have no knowledge'?
yes , and the koran is the knowledge .
276 Verily, thou receivest the Qur'an from the One Wise, All-Knowing.
any thing or event that is mentioned in the verses of the koran is the knowledge . so 1736 is about things outside the koran .
How do the verses i posted agree with allahs verified laws,based on your real-life observations?
Which laws ? there are no established laws which contradict the Koran . besides that, our 'real-life observations' are limited . we are not the All-Knowing . Allah is .
...If you say allah can do anything,then he can also have a son...so the christians who believe that are correct too?
BS. Allah does not have a son . read chapter 112 .
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Peace darbari. My sincere advice to you is start looking around the world and within yourself for answers. Your logic is totally circular.If you want to believe the quran is perfect,scientific and complete in its literal form,then im sure one day you will get a rude awakening.
If our 'real life observations' are limited well then how can you say science agrees with the quran to justify the quran is correct? I could just say well science(or real life observations.) is limited anyway,so that doesnt prove the quran is correct?
I would understand your position more if you people defending this books literalism would just say we believe it because of 'faith' and our 'feelings' and not justify it by desperate,illogical,and intellectually shallow,anti scientific assumptions based on conjecture.
Peace all. -
Mr zenje,i see that your definition of 'brothers and sisters' or 'nice guy' is purely on your arbitrary sectarian criteria...
Just like Mr. Peace and GoodWillHunting's criteria for calling people 'intellectual' and 'mature'.
i also see that you and others have not refuted the verses i claimed were inconsistent when taken literally...
This guy is turning into another Apple Pie. He hasn't even responded to all the posts completely refuting his illogical and made up fantasies.
I am glad that people of your intellectual incompetence have no real political power,and that western liberal democracy(although not perfect.) stops people of your mentality from propogating your extremist,illusional,inhumane,sectarian pipe dreams.
Dear God! This is just such an emotional outburst, western liberal democracy yet...
What does it feel like to claim you have god on your side,yet be so irrelevent?
Emotion again? What benefit do these outbursts give us in the discussion seeing as how the refutations are completely ignored by this poster?
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Peace darbari. My sincere advice to you is start looking around the world and within yourself for answers. Your logic is totally circular.If you want to believe the quran is perfect,scientific and complete in its literal form,then im sure one day you will get a rude awakening.
If our 'real life observations' are limited well then how can you say science agrees with the quran to justify the quran is correct? I could just say well science(or real life observations.) is limited anyway,so that doesnt prove the quran is correct?
I would understand your position more if you people defending this books literalism would just say we believe it because of 'faith' and our 'feelings' and not justify it by desperate,illogical,and intellectually shallow,anti scientific assumptions based on conjecture.
Peace all.show us the contradictions , enquirer . i see that u avoid replying whenever someone posts the verses of the Koran . again ,u didnt comment on the verse that i posted .
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Peace all. Whoever wants to say im avoiding this or that or whatever... well thats fine,thats your opinions... I have posted the contradictions,and if i see anybody refute them properly then i will discuss or accept their findings. I reserve the right to discuss with people i want to...No compulsion in the deen hey.
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Peace all. Whoever wants to say im avoiding this or that or whatever... well thats fine,thats your opinions... I have posted the contradictions,and if i see anybody refute them properly then i will discuss or accept their findings. I reserve the right to discuss with people i want to...No compulsion in the deen hey.
excuse me mister
it is not like we want you to be a muslim, i don't want that really, the verse you mentioned is about compulsion in religions not compulsion in debates, ironically the debeate is started by you, however based on your flawed logic there is no compulsion for us to respond to your allegations as well, but at least we showed respect and answered you, not sure enq that you realize and understand what you do exactly? is it you man made god guiding you?
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peace ab and savage carrot.ab You asked me if i could take your offensive ...now you are crying about rules and such like...The truth is more potent than your little 'offensive'...Will these rules entail not swearing,threatening to slap or calling people enemies of allah with flimsy evidence like you have done?....Not soo tough anymore are you?... I know you cant refute much because you probably need to take more time to think outside of the box. You seem to be able to dish out abuse,but cant take much criticism back can you?
And savage carrot,what have you said about ab swearing,branding and threatening to slap people?(never mind your own sarcasm.) Are the rules only for yours and abs comfort and agenda?...And you people are supposed to be the peaceful people of justice with allahs universal words?... Sectarian double standards. You need to grow up... -
What does it feel like to claim you have god on your side,yet be so irrelevent?
Did I? There you go with the putting words in other people's mouths thing, to preach your agenda. You know, you really don't have to, you've already proved yourself a hypocrite.Peace darbaari,
why dont u just quote the verses ? if u are having trouble finding the verses , this might help http//www.submission.org/quran/webqt.php
He has already denounced the book many times. (Note the hypocrisy - Most of his posts when he joined are filled with quran vers numbers and references.) Here's some verses that talk about his kind...-
And if Our revelations are recited to them, they Say ?We have listened, and if we wish, we could have said the same thing. This is nothing but tales of the ancients!?
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And if Our clear revelations are recited to them, you see hatred in the faces of those who have rejected. They are nearly close to attacking those who are reciting to them Our revelations! Say ?Shall I inform you of what is worse than this? The Fire, which God has promised to those who have rejected. What a miserable destiny!?
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He hears God?s revelations being recited to him, then he persists arrogantly, as if he never heard them. Give him news of a painful retribution.
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And if he learns anything from Our revelations, he makes fun of them. For these will be a humiliating retribution.
Isn't it amazing that a "1400 year old book" talks of people in this era?
And isn't it even more amazing that a person who holds his conscience as his god, claims that other people who follow God and His words are egotistical?
I personally believe our conscience is our god.
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Have you seen the one who has taken his ego as his god? Will you be a caretaker over him?
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Have you seen the one who took his ego as his god, and God led him astray, despite his knowledge, and He sealed his hearing and his heart, and He made a veil on his eyes? Who then can guide him after God? Will you not remember?
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Enquirer- Emotional outbursts do you no good. Address the issues if you can.
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Peace all. I will repost a previous post in this thread as nobody seemed to tackle it...which should have been easy given some people have gods perfect clear words available in book form...
'What about the quran saying that allah doesnt change his ways(or sunnat or laws.) and then jesus being born without a father,adam with no father or mother,a stick turning into a snake,the splitting of the sea into two firm mountains,jesus speaking as a baby,fire not burning abraham,jonah in the belly of a whale etc...You mean these verses?
1776-77 And they nearly frightened you to drive you out of the land. But in that case, they would have shortly been destroyed after you were gone. This is the way of those whom We sent before you of Our messengers. And you will not find any change in Our way.
The sunnat of Allah here is that ?they would have shortly been destroyed after you were gone? . there is no change in this sunnat .
3543 Arrogance on earth, and evil scheming. And the evil schemes only backfire on those who scheme them. Were they expecting anything different from the ways used on the people of the past? You will not find any change in God's way, and you will not find any bypass to His way.
Sunnat of Allah in this verse is that ?the evil schemes only backfire on those who scheme them? . there is no change in this sunnat .
4822-23 And if the rejecters had fought you, they would have turned and ran, then they would have found neither an ally nor a victor. Such is God's way with those who have passed away before, and you will not find any change in God's way.
The sunnat of Allah in this verse is ?if the rejecters had fought you, they would have turned and ran, then they would have found neither an ally nor a victor.? . there is no change in this sunnat.
How does this sunnat contradict with these events u mentioned
'What about the quran saying that allah doesnt change his ways(or sunnat or laws.) and then jesus being born without a father,adam with no father or mother,a stick turning into a snake,the splitting of the sea into two firm mountains,jesus speaking as a baby,fire not burning abraham,jonah in the belly of a whale etc...
the three verses I posted above do not say that Allah will not do any thing extraordinary .
is there a contradiction here ?! tell us .
Can you all confirm and verify these events literally?...( remember 17;36.)
What do u think 1736 says , please tell us .
I was under the impression that some on this forum quoted 1736 to make sure you verify/know something before you follow it...Is that correct? Ie; 'Dont follow that of which you have no knowledge'?
yes , and the koran is the knowledge .
276 Verily, thou receivest the Qur'an from the One Wise, All-Knowing.
any thing or event that is mentioned in the verses of the koran is the knowledge . so 1736 is about things outside the koran .
your claims are not supported by 1736 .
looking forward to your reply .
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All mankind doesnt speak arabic, and few people who didnt grow up with the language will ever master it to a degree where "evidence" such as linguistic quality makes any sense.
Here is one more stupidity of Magi..
Is there a worn inside you which does not let you stay calm? If god has used arabic language then what is problem whith you?
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I dont have a problem with it at all. I have a problem with retards who claim that one language cannot be translated into another, with full meaning avaible.
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Good post Fahad, hope we will see some 'attempt' from the OP at least...
viartualeye- I hope you can read Magi's response, I think he has clarified himself, no need to call him 'stupid', infact if you want you can take a lesson from 'enquirer' and call posts stupid, we won't think the person is, promise!