THEOLOGICAL FATALISM - ALLAH'S WILL and OTHER CHARACTERISTICS
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Peace be upon you Boost,
Thanks for your detailed response. I think it made alot of sense. Especially the part where you explained that all the blood rushes to vital organs during fight or flight in highly charged emotions and thats why hindsight is always 20/20. Excellent point that won me over
Yes, that was one of several points that convinced me after thinking about it. As I said, dont just let it stop there, as you go through the week, take a look at people and thier BEHAVIOR. Look at them as they get emotional and loose thier proper reasoning. Think about the statement that "stress kills" or "stress leads to ilness" and KNOW that it is scientifically proven that emotions take blood from vital organs to the arms and legs for fighting and running. So people who are always "angry" or "sad" or "fearful" are chronically starving thier vital organs from life giving blood/nutirents, and therefore we have ILLNESS. Spiritual wisdom must be that which we can go out and empiracally verify.
However, I'm still trying to get around your idea that we are all mini-gods and we just have to tap into that power to become divine. It reminds of those 5%ers
;D Yes, I can understand that. There is some truth in all these religions however. Basically what I am intending to show is that we have the same faculties as the God, but not the magnitude. Just like a glass of water and the ocean it came from. The glass of water is the same, but certainly cannot do that which the ocean can do. What the God can do in an instant, man must do over TIME. But lets take it slow. Thats the end of teh story, right now we are just REMEMBERING (putting the pieces back together).
... Please explain because I don't think that's compatible with quranic teachings in the least.
It is, just have to unlearn what we were taught the verses meant. I have been showing this for a long time in many threads. People have been agreeing without knowing where it was coming from. We will start with the God being closer than the jugular vein. This is the same message. I will provide some verses to link it all soon.
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What I am talking about in plain language is this without knowing anything about what comes and goes around you, meaning everything that surrounds oneself, you have no way of knowing yourself.
Agreed, Before there was any talk of "God" there was the understanding of science, and the deeper and deeper science got, the more people came to understand that there MUST be an intelligence prior to this magnificent ORDER. Science brought us to GOD. Doesnt this reading(quran) say that "We will show you the signs in the horizons and within your spirit(nafs) until you KNOW this is the truth"?
If you've agreed, then the question of thySELF doesn't arise by itself, unless you want to go in circles. You said that science has proven GOD and I asked you for proofs. So what you did, is spit out a verse that talks about the "science of nature and reality", not GOD. Who and What exactly is GOD? Is GOD "Proton, Electron and Neutron", an "Energy", a "Light", a "Spirit", a "Being", an "IT", an "Beast", a "Core Being", is this GOD just "One", "TWO" or "Many"? As I mentioned earlier, that it is incomprehensible for any man, whether in scientific terms or religious terms, to pinpoint its absoluteness, but can only hallucinate, imagine, theorize, hypothesise and infatuate and mesmerize others to lure them into religious dogmatic and pagan beliefs by the personifications of man-made idols.
I thought so. A tree is known by its own environment in which it lives and nourishes, by the fruit it bears, by the flowers and leaves it blooms, by the colors it displays, by the stem, roots and branches it speads out. The SEED itself has no bearing without its environment. Each Tree is a significant WHOLE.
Yes on the physical level, but is not a tree made from electrons protons and nuetrons just like your body? And when you break down electrons protons and nuetrons all you get is ONE ENERGY? Dont get trapped in the illusion of this world. We must be in the world but not of the world. Man is suppossed to be the balance between the Divine realm and the Physical Realm.
We've been created/evolved to live in THIS WORLD in REALITY, not illusion. Illusion is something that religions professorate and provocate. The "divine" realm is our WORLD we live in, and the dictation of signs of Nature/Reality by which science, and thus humanity, advances.
Science proves God the same way it proves wind, by the effect.
Neither science nor religion nor you, has proven anything. If it has, bring your proofs.
They are all around you. You must study science and mathematics and you will see how from the "Big Bang" everything manifested according to a strict mathematical pattern, thus giving us the ability to have science like chemistry, where elements are organized mathematicaly, etc. We verify the God by the EFFECTS. However, you may contiue to be confused if your "image" of God is some object out in space rather than the ONE CONSCIOUSNESS, the BODILESS INTELLIGENCE that is at the core of all BEINGS.
Big Bang is a THEORY, not a FACT. Every Cause has an Effect and Every Effect has its Cause, in the same way as Every Action has a Reaction and Every Reaction has its Action. This is pure science dictated by NATURE/REALITY in which we live, experiment and analyze on a daily basis and has nothing to do with verifying GOD. Mathematics is a branch of this science, created by Man, not by an Unseen/Unknown God. And due to science, Man has advanced to where we are NOW and given tremendous hope to all other entities. Now you've started talking about God being ONE CONSCIOUSNESS and BODILESS INTELLIGENCE apart from other things mentioned earlier. You seem to have quite a collection and I'm sure more to come.
GOD (a cosmological one) is simply a figment of our imagination; we only think, theorize, hypothesise, mesmerize, infatuate, with the notion that there MAY BE or IS a GOD or GODS. Beyond this notion, there lies nothing but fairy tales, towards which, Man has done an excellent job in shrewd and deceptive perceptions to lure one into Religions.
Do we think, theorize, mesmerize, infatuate about WIND? or Gravity? or THOUGHTS?
Are we talking about WIND, GRAVITY, THOUGHTS or a GOD? Are winds, fire, gravity, sun, moon, thoughts GODS? Do you have any sense of direction as to where you are heading by making such foolish statements?
I know you didn't say anything about 'good' or 'bad' and that's why I questioned the integrity of being "God-like" by the very good and bad it brings about.
How are you questioning the integrity of something I didnt even mention? Do you see that you have your own preconcieved ideas yet you want me to explain? )
You mentioned "God-like", and I asked you what is "God-lke". You don't even know what or who God is to begin with and then you come up with God-like. That is a preconceived idea.
So once again, what is God-like??? Can you name at least one thing that is all good or all bad on this earth?
You see how we go in circles when you question that which I never said?
Firstly, you refuse to answer my question and then dodge around to say that you never said it? Read my replies above.
I am talking about behavior that benefits the parts and the whole. So an example would be sharing of wealth.
Now, are you talking about behaviour or wealth? You are mixing and clouding too much stuff and then get all worked up on me.
Do you agree that sharing of wealth is beneficial to all parts and the whole?
Beneficial to what parts and what whole are you talking about? Please be clear and precise if you need an answer.
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Big Bang is a THEORY, not a FACT
I've explained this countless times to creationists who keep claiming that evolution is "just a theory" and "not a fact."
Well, a "theory," in SCIENTIFIC TERMS, is based on evidence and empirical data. It goes something like this...Hypothesis--->Test---->(if hypothesis is correct) Theory or Law
The difference between a Law and a Theory is that a Law defines how things work. Like Newton's 3 laws of motion. Theories explain how those laws work.
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Hello phoenix1,
It is common sense that man (scientists) cannot prove either evolution nor creation and neither the Big Bang, that absolutely happened once-upon-a-time, (perhaps a zillion years ago).....a fairy tale.
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It depends on what you mean by "prove." We can't prove 80% of the crimes, going by your apparent meaning of "prove."
The theories CAN change. No one is making an absolute statement. There is always a margin of error.
What we have observed, in what you call the "divine" realm, we have to conclude that something like the big bang occured, and evolution did (and is) taking place. -
It depends on what you mean by "prove." We can't prove 80% of the crimes, going by your apparent meaning of "prove."
The theories CAN change. No one is making an absolute statement. There is always a margin of error.
What we have observed, in what you call the "divine" realm, we have to conclude that something like the big bang occured, and evolution did (and is) taking place.When the call for "divine" kicks in, you better make sure that it is 100% and not 80%. From your many post that I've read so far, you seem to be a very confused individual. Sometimes you are in favor and sometime in opposition. Make up your mind. You can't have both ways.
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Oh yeah, I'm confused. I've never denied that. But I like to accept the good points both sides have and also ask both sides questions. I don't want to believe in something that's not true, whether that's athiesm or godism or whatever.
I'd rather be a Kerry than a Bush, if you get what I mean.But I do agree with what Kyle has said so far.
I certainly see an intelligence "at work" everywhere. What is that? -
Peace,
However, I'm still trying to get around your idea that we are all mini-gods and we just have to tap into that power to become divine. It reminds of those 5%ers ... Please explain because I don't think that's compatible with quranic teachings in the least.
Many scientifics people have taught this relationship between God and the humans by the Subconscious Rested(Supported) by biblical verses.
It can be interesting to refer at the Qu'ran to show the truths which contains the Bible and the Qu'ran.
Peace
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Peace be upon you Danish,
If you've agreed, then the question of thySELF doesn't arise by itself, unless you want to go in circles. You said that science has proven GOD and I asked you for proofs. So what you did, is spit out a verse that talks about the "science of nature and reality", not GOD.
Who ever said the concept of SELF arose by itself? It is a process of REFLECTION and PONDERING and collecting KNOWLEDGE, etc. It is science that becomes so AWE INSPIRING that it leads to the understanding of a bodiless intelligence that is responsible for its manifestation. Just like if you came upon a pile of rocks sitting next to a pyramid. One structure gives evidence of an intelligence behind it.
Regarding the proof of the God it is everywhere in science and mathematics. I asked you a question to help bring this proof out which you stil have not answered. So I will ask it again. How is WIND proven?
Who and What exactly is GOD? Is GOD "Proton, Electron and Neutron", an "Energy", a "Light", a "Spirit", a "Being", an "IT", an "Beast", a "Core Being", is this GOD just "One", "TWO" or "Many"?
God is the ONE bodiless intelligence that is evidenced by the strict mathematical pattern of all creation.
As I mentioned earlier, that it is incomprehensible for any man, whether in scientific terms or religious terms, to pinpoint its absoluteness, but can only hallucinate, imagine, theorize, hypothesise and infatuate and mesmerize others to lure them into religious dogmatic and pagan beliefs by the personifications of man-made idols.
Sorry you feel that way.
Yes on the physical level, but is not a tree made from electrons protons and nuetrons just like your body? And when you break down electrons protons and nuetrons all you get is ONE ENERGY? Dont get trapped in the illusion of this world. We must be in the world but not of the world. Man is suppossed to be the balance between the Divine realm and the Physical Realm.
We've been created/evolved to live in THIS WORLD in REALITY, not illusion. Illusion is something that religions professorate and provocate. The "divine" realm is our WORLD we live in, and the dictation of signs of Nature/Reality by which science, and thus humanity, advances.
Which world is the DREAM world, where we "feel" , "see", and "hear" things but later realize it was not THIS world? If it is NOT this world, what World is it? This should help us to begin breaking down that position.
Science proves God the same way it proves wind, by the effect.
Neither science nor religion nor you, has proven anything. If it has, bring your proofs.
So you have no knowledge of wind nor gravity? Is that what you are telling us?
They are all around you. You must study science and mathematics and you will see how from the "Big Bang" everything manifested according to a strict mathematical pattern, thus giving us the ability to have science like chemistry, where elements are organized mathematicaly, etc. We verify the God by the EFFECTS. However, you may contiue to be confused if your "image" of God is some object out in space rather than the ONE CONSCIOUSNESS, the BODILESS INTELLIGENCE that is at the core of all BEINGS.
Big Bang is a THEORY, not a FACT. Every Cause has an Effect and Every Effect has its Cause, in the same way as Every Action has a Reaction and Every Reaction has its Action. This is pure science dictated by NATURE/REALITY in which we live, experiment and analyze on a daily basis and has nothing to do with verifying GOD. Mathematics is a branch of this science, created by Man, not by an Unseen/Unknown God.
Correct, mathematics is created by man, but on WHAT BASIS was man able to create math and science? Because of the STRICT LAWS that the Universe was created which has been scientifically verified my mathematicians such as Stephen Hawkins and others up until the Big Bang. Regarding the Big Bang, we observe star systems doing the same things. It is based on the spiral nature of the universe, which is why the galaxies and such still move in a spiral, the DNA helix is spiral, and MANY MANY other things. When things spiral they condense to a point where it eventually explodes. I am still learning this aspect and will revisit once my knowledge is greater.
And due to science, Man has advanced to where we are NOW and given tremendous hope to all other entities. Now you've started talking about God being ONE CONSCIOUSNESS and BODILESS INTELLIGENCE apart from other things mentioned earlier. You seem to have quite a collection and I'm sure more to come.
Those two will be sufficient as the premise.
GOD (a cosmological one) is simply a figment of our imagination; we only think, theorize, hypothesise, mesmerize, infatuate, with the notion that there MAY BE or IS a GOD or GODS. Beyond this notion, there lies nothing but fairy tales, towards which, Man has done an excellent job in shrewd and deceptive perceptions to lure one into Religions.
Sorry you FEEL that way. There is nothing I can do for you. I guess it was YOU who formed your own self in the womb.
Do we think, theorize, mesmerize, infatuate about WIND? or Gravity? or THOUGHTS?
Do not confuse what you see most people do about GOD with the Truth about God which we are talking about here. I can understand your concern about the blind following masses, but understand that I am dealing with KNOWLEDGE, not belief. Are you telling me by the above question that you are aware of WIND and GRAVITY? How so?
Are we talking about WIND, GRAVITY, THOUGHTS or a GOD? Are winds, fire, gravity, sun, moon, thoughts GODS? Do you have any sense of direction as to where you are heading by making such foolish statements?
Please do not let your emotions take control and begin with offensive talk such as words like "foolish".
To answer your question, we are talking about that which is verified by its EFFECTS. We are building a foundation which you seem to be trying to avoid. Please just answer the questions, HOW do you know about WIND and GRAVITY?
Do you agree that sharing of wealth is beneficial to all parts and the whole?
Beneficial to what parts and what whole are you talking about? Please be clear and precise if you need an answer.
I'll tell you what, sit back and let myself and Boost finish our conversation, then maybe you will understand better. It seems to me that you are locked into atheism, and I have no intention of forcing anyone.
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If you've agreed, then the question of thySELF doesn't arise by itself, unless you want to go in circles. You said that science has proven GOD and I asked you for proofs. So what you did, is spit out a verse that talks about the "science of nature and reality", not GOD.
Who ever said the concept of SELF arose by itself? It is a process of REFLECTION and PONDERING and collecting KNOWLEDGE, etc. It is science that becomes so AWE INSPIRING that it leads to the understanding of a bodiless intelligence that is responsible for its manifestation. Just like if you came upon a pile of rocks sitting next to a pyramid. One structure gives evidence of an intelligence behind it.
Okay fine, I shall keep that in mind.
Regarding the proof of the God it is everywhere in science and mathematics.
Saying that proof of God is ?everywhere?, due to science and mathematics, is not at all a proof. I am looking for that scientific proof, as you asserted, to Who and What exactly is GOD?
I asked you a question to help bring this proof out which you stil have not answered. So I will ask it again. How is WIND proven?
You intentionally dodge around and refuse to answer my repeated question as to What is God-like, Who and What exactly is GOD, and then blame me for not answering yours, huh.
Wind and Gravity are the two most commonly used nature?s entities that Muslims are fond on abusing, to desperately prove God?s existence, but miserably failed. As a matter of fact, there's nothing whatsoever that any human can do anything to prove GOD. Let us see what Kemetic has store for us.
Anyhow, to discuss and prove what is WIND (or GRAVITY), is a lengthy subject and I?m not going into detail. In short, WIND is a natural phenomenon and to understand WIND, it is necessary to understand AIR, for WIND is a movement of AIR. There are several governing scientific factors and instrumentations that precisely measure and validate the underlying profiles of WIND/AIR, such as speed, pressure, temperature, direction, pattern, content, etc. There?s plenty of information on the Net.
Who and What exactly is GOD? Is GOD "Proton, Electron and Neutron", an "Energy", a "Light", a "Spirit", a "Being", an "IT", an "Beast", a "Core Being", is this GOD just "One", "TWO" or "Many"?
God is the ONE bodiless intelligence that is evidenced by the strict mathematical pattern of all creation.
Okay, I see. Out of all the above varieties, we now have "ONE bodiless intelligence". But then how do you know that ONE bodiless intelligence is actually God? Besides, if every living creature has its own bodiless intelligence (minds of their own), does that mean there are that many number of Gods? We can talk about Nature?s mathematical pattern and design all day long, but that will not tell you What and WHO GOD IS?
As I mentioned earlier, that it is incomprehensible for any man, whether in scientific terms or religious terms, to pinpoint its absoluteness, but can only hallucinate, imagine, theorize, hypothesise and infatuate and mesmerize others to lure them into religious dogmatic and pagan beliefs by the personifications of man-made idols.
Sorry you feel that way.
I am sorry, but that's an undeniable historic pagan and as well as current fact, not my feelings.
Yes on the physical level, but is not a tree made from electrons protons and nuetrons just like your body? And when you break down electrons protons and nuetrons all you get is ONE ENERGY? Dont get trapped in the illusion of this world. We must be in the world but not of the world. Man is suppossed to be the balance between the Divine realm and the Physical Realm.
We've been created/evolved to live in THIS WORLD in REALITY, not illusion. Illusion is something that religions professorate and provocate. The "divine" realm is our WORLD we live in, and the dictation of signs of Nature/Reality by which science, and thus humanity, advances.
Which world is the DREAM world, where we "feel" , "see", and "hear" things but later realize it was not THIS world? If it is NOT this world, what World is it? This should help us to begin breaking down that position.
This IS the Real World in which we are currently living with all are senses intact and administered, not a DREAM world? The Dream World that you may be talking about is the hallucinated, imagined one.
Science proves God the same way it proves wind, by the effect.
Neither science nor religion nor you, has proven anything. If it has, bring your proofs?
So you have no knowledge of wind nor gravity? Is that what you are telling us?
Please stop dodging and twisting words around and replying senselessly. Read and understand what my quote says and what I am asking for (in bold)?
And due to science, Man has advanced to where we are NOW and given tremendous hope to all other entities. Now you've started talking about God being ONE CONSCIOUSNESS and BODILESS INTELLIGENCE apart from other things mentioned earlier. You seem to have quite a collection and I'm sure more to come.
Those two will be sufficient as the premise.
Funny how you say that. Just above you said God is ONE CONSCIOUSNESS and now we have two "premises", suppositions. Well, lets see what happens next.
Just as a reminder and keep this in mind that you had also mentioned that BEING is an indivisible duality comprising of CONSCIOUSNESS and SUBCONSCIOUS.
GOD (a cosmological one) is simply a figment of our imagination; we only think, theorize, hypothesise, mesmerize, infatuate, with the notion that there MAY BE or IS a GOD or GODS. Beyond this notion, there lies nothing but fairy tales, towards which, Man has done an excellent job in shrewd and deceptive perceptions to lure one into Religions.
Sorry you FEEL that way.
Again, same answer as given earlier, i.e. facts, not feelings.
There is nothing I can do for you. I guess it was YOU who formed your own self in the womb.
Now that's a cheesy one, but how did you know?
Do we think, theorize, mesmerize, infatuate about WIND? or Gravity? or THOUGHTS?
Do not confuse what you see most people do about GOD with the Truth about God which we are talking about here. I can understand your concern about the blind following masses, but understand that I am dealing with KNOWLEDGE, not belief. Are you telling me by the above question that you are aware of WIND and GRAVITY? How so?
Earlier, you made a remark as "So you have no knowledge of wind nor gravity? Is that what you are telling us?", and now "Are you telling me by the above question that you are aware of WIND and GRAVITY? How so?"
Please excuse my pun, but where are you getting this weird ideas from? Do you have difficulty understanding or what?Are we talking about WIND, GRAVITY, THOUGHTS or a GOD? Are winds, fire, gravity, sun, moon, thoughts GODS? Do you have any sense of direction as to where you are heading by making such foolish statements?
Please do not let your emotions take control and begin with offensive talk such as words like "foolish".
Please don't let your emotions troll over the word "foolish", for it is not an offensive word and directed towards your specific statement. YOU have used this word a few times yourself. You seem intrinsically sensitive. Be a little sporty.
To answer your question, we are talking about that which is verified by its EFFECTS. We are building a foundation which you seem to be trying to avoid.
I am not at all avoiding, but questioning and criticising your building block. If the foundation is sloppy, the building will colapse.
Do you agree that sharing of wealth is beneficial to all parts and the whole?
Beneficial to what parts and what whole are you talking about? Please be clear and precise if you need an answer.
What??? LOL! You asked me a question and then I replied by asking you to clarify your question. You accused me earlier for not responding to one of your other questions when you yourself did the same, and just above you accused me again for trying to avoid your building a foundation.
I'll tell you what, sit back and let myself and Boost finish our conversation, then maybe you will understand better. It seems to me that you are locked into atheism, and I have no intention of forcing anyone.
Please don't give me this bull-crap and stop drifting. You got all perturbed by the word "foolish" whilst requesting me to control my emotions and here you are addressing me with your uncontrollable gutsy emotions as "locked into atheism". You sure seem to have your ways, don't you. I think you are too frustrated with my strong expositions and feeling uncomfortable. Boost and others have certainly the right to partake and discuss it through.
Side note On the "salaat section", you want me to start a new thread because the pattern of discussion drifted, which I can understand. But what have you done here and inspite of reminding you a few times to open a new thread on your Kemetic Religion, you totally ignored.
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Peace be upon you Danish,
Danish
Saying that proof of God is ?everywhere?, due to science and mathematics, is not at all a proof. I am looking for that scientific proof, as you asserted, to Who and What exactly is GOD?Start here, How is it possible that we have a periodic table of elements?
Danish
Wind and Gravity are the two most commonly used nature?s entities that Muslims are fond on abusing, to desperately prove God?s existence, but miserably failed. As a matter of fact, there's nothing whatsoever that any human can do anything to prove GOD. Let us see what Kemetic has store for us.What is the point if you are already saying no one can do it? Your mind is closed per your own comments. I will respond to the rest of these accusations then I will leave it up to you to research the books already referred to you on your own.
Danish
Anyhow, to discuss and prove what is WIND (or GRAVITY), is a lengthy subject and I?m not going into detail. In short, WIND is a natural phenomenon and to understand WIND, it is necessary to understand AIR, for WIND is a movement of AIR. There are several governing scientific factors and instrumentations that precisely measure and validate the underlying profiles of WIND/AIR, such as speed, pressure, temperature, direction, pattern, content, etc. There?s plenty of information on the Net.Ohhh, I get it now, wind and gravity, both unseen concepts, CAN be proven, but its too lengthy to to go into detail. However, you want me to waste my time to go into detail do prove THAT which created wind and gravity? I supposse your time is more importan than mine? ;D Well, juast as yuo refer me to the Net, I refer you to the books by Ra Un Nefer Amen called "Metu Neter" Vol I and II, as well as "Maat The 11 Laws of God".
Danish
Okay, I see. Out of all the above varieties, we now have "ONE bodiless intelligence". But then how do you know that ONE bodiless intelligence is actually God?Sorry, I dont have time to go into detail, please refer to the suggested reaing material.
Besides, if every living creature has its own bodiless intelligence (minds of their own), does that mean there are that many number of Gods?
No, what is being spoken of is Consciousness, which is the opposite of Energy/Matter (Anti- matter). Since it is IMMATERIAL, it can be neither divided or multiplied, you need to have MATTER to make differentiation. It is the VERY SAME one Consciousness that flows through all of us. Thats why we read its the God who is the Seer, Hearer, etc. But this involves too much detail which I dont have time for with someone who is not interested. Please see the referred reading material for more info.
Danish
We can talk about Nature?s mathematical pattern and design all day long, but that will not tell you What and WHO GOD IS?Intelligence preceedes order. Your hang up is that you still probably have the image of some old bearded guy in the Sky. I am talking about nothing like this.
Danish
We've been created/evolved to live in THIS WORLD in REALITY, not illusion. Illusion is something that religions professorate and provocate. The "divine" realm is our WORLD we live in, and the dictation of signs of Nature/Reality by which science, and thus humanity, advances.Yes, we live in the realm of effects(this world), but our journey is to the realm of causes where we come from and where we are returning. Let me ask you, what is the purpose of your dreams? You ever had De Ja Vu? What is your understanding of that?
Danish
This IS the Real World in which we are currently living with all are senses intact and administered, not a DREAM world? The Dream World that you may be talking about is the hallucinated, imagined one.Thats right, avoid the question ;D Doesnt matter anyway.
Just as a reminder and keep this in mind that you had also mentioned that BEING is an indivisible duality comprising of CONSCIOUSNESS and SUBCONSCIOUS.
Correct, and when you read the book you will understand why.
Earlier, you made a remark as "So you have no knowledge of wind nor gravity? Is that what you are telling us?", and now "Are you telling me by the above question that you are aware of WIND and GRAVITY? How so?"
Please excuse my pun, but where are you getting this weird ideas from? Do you have difficulty understanding or what?Because you were going back and forth dodging the question and still do so under the premise that it is too much detail, but then you want me to spend the time explaining something which requires much more detail while I am suppossed to go to the internet for my answer. confused
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Peace with you Idolfree1,
I don't want to enundate you with questions so I thought I'd wait till you replied to Danish before I jumped in again D
I'm still struggling with this idea that the quran does not disagree with the idea of being God-like...
You mentioned that it's simply a different way of viewing the verses that would bring us to the right conclusion.
One verse that pops into my head is Surat El Ikhlas... last verse
Wa lam yakon lahu kufwan ahad.
roughly translated (by me cuz I'm too lazy to find it online now lol)
and there is never any similitude like Him.
How would you explain this verse in light of what you stated earlier?
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Saying that proof of God is ?everywhere?, due to science and mathematics, is not at all a proof. I am looking for that scientific proof, as you asserted, to Who and What exactly is GOD?
Start here, How is it possible that we have a periodic table of elements?
First, you need an explanation to prove Wind, then Gravity, and now you want to start with the Periodic Table. We are not yet finished with the WIND scenario and therefore I would recommend you to please stick to one concept for brevity and clarity to explain your way out.
Wind and Gravity are the two most commonly used nature?s entities that Muslims are fond on abusing, to desperately prove God?s existence, but miserably failed. As a matter of fact, there's nothing whatsoever that any human can do anything to prove GOD. Let us see what Kemetic has store for us.
What is the point if you are already saying no one can do it? Your mind is closed per your own comments. I will respond to the rest of these accusations then I will leave it up to you to research the books already referred to you on your own.
I only made a statement and could be wrong. Let us see what Kemetic has store for us. It seems that my responses are frustrating you and causing a hindrance towards building your foundation for Kemeticism, thereby wanting me to step aside and sit back, so that BOOST can nod along. Please continue.
Anyhow, to discuss and prove what is WIND (or GRAVITY), is a lengthy subject and I?m not going into detail. In short, WIND is a natural phenomenon and to understand WIND, it is necessary to understand AIR, for WIND is a movement of AIR. There are several governing scientific factors and instrumentations that precisely measure and validate the underlying profiles of WIND/AIR, such as speed, pressure, temperature, direction, pattern, content, etc. There?s plenty of information on the Net.
Ohhh, I get it now, wind and gravity, both unseen concepts, CAN be proven, but its too lengthy to to go into detail. However, you want me to waste my time to go into detail do prove THAT which created wind and gravity? I supposse your time is more importan than mine? ;D Well, juast as yuo refer me to the Net, I refer you to the books by Ra Un Nefer Amen called "Metu Neter" Vol I and II, as well as "Maat The 11 Laws of God".
You are shifting gears now, Kyle. You asked me a question as to how is Wind proven and I gave you the synopsis and suddenly you want more details. Need more information, then here it is http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wind.
But now you are talking about "unseen" concepts. You should have bought that up in the first place and direct your question specifically, instead of twisting around and requesting irrelevant details on Wind, Gravity, Periodic Table, etc., etc. Please stick to one unseen concept and carry yourself to whatever you're trying to prove. Too much information and details of various subjects within a single post can make things quite lengthy, confusing, messy and complicated.
To rebut your reply, yes, WIND is unseen but known and physical. Anyhow, what has wind got to do with knowing Who and What exactly GOD is? I have yet to get to the bottom of your point, which I am trying hard to comprehend, but then again, please continue.
Okay, I see. Out of all the above varieties, we now have "ONE bodiless intelligence". But then how do you know that ONE bodiless intelligence is actually God?
Sorry, I dont have time to go into detail, please refer to the suggested reaing material.
Huh! Those reading materials talk about man-made stone idols personifying GOD, gods and goddesses; in much the same ways as the three large stone structures in Mina, which are thought to be reminiscence of devils (at this point do check what "Ahriman" in Zoroastrianism mean) and the Allat, Aluzah and Manat (goddesses) and Hubal at Mecca thought to be The God (Allah). All these gods and many more, from time immemorial, have been exemplified and personified to philosophize reality. Is this not D?j? vu? If not, then how does personifications of Egyptian gods in Kemetic philosophy claim to establish genuineness and absoluteness of a cosmological god and its oneness?
Besides, if every living creature has its own bodiless intelligence (minds of their own), does that mean there are that many number of Gods?
No, what is being spoken of is Consciousness, which is the opposite of Energy/Matter (Anti- matter). Since it is IMMATERIAL, it can be neither divided or multiplied, you need to have MATTER to make differentiation. It is the VERY SAME one Consciousness that flows through all of us. Thats why we read its the God who is the Seer, Hearer, etc.
The opposite of Consciousness is Ignorance, Heedlessness, not Energy/Matter. Neither energy nor matter (different concepts) has the ability to THINK. Besides, don't forget the subconscious part of memory, else the GOD gets slashed into half. Both consciousness and subconscious are the indivisible duality of being (remember).
We can talk about Nature?s mathematical pattern and design all day long, but that will not tell you What and WHO GOD IS?
Intelligence preceedes order. Your hang up is that you still probably have the image of some old bearded guy in the Sky. I am talking about nothing like this.
Neither am I. But eventually you might lead up to it, Kemetic style.
We've been created/evolved to live in THIS WORLD in REALITY, not illusion. Illusion is something that religions professorate and provocate. The "divine" realm is our WORLD we live in, and the dictation of signs of Nature/Reality by which science, and thus humanity, advances.
Yes, we live in the realm of effects(this world), but our journey is to the realm of causes where we come from and where we are returning. Let me ask you, what is the purpose of your dreams? You ever had De Ja Vu? What is your understanding of that?
We live in the natural realm of causes and effects, actions and reactions. Dreams and Deja Vu's, I believe are illusionary impressions, fanciful fathoms, hocus-pocus, delusions, hallucinations, misapprehensions, etc. Where we came from and where we are returning to, are man-made bull-crap D?j? vu. Perhaps you can tell us exactly where we came from and returning to, keeping the evolution, creation, reincarnation and other theories in mind, pertaining to religious orthodoxies.
This IS the Real World in which we are currently living with all are senses intact and administered, not a DREAM world? The Dream World that you may be talking about is the hallucinated, imagined one.
Thats right, avoid the question ;D Doesnt matter anyway.
Which question, avoid what? I gave you the answer to your Dream World, didn't I, unless I missed something? I try my best not to avoid questions or at least respond in such a way as to get the answers across. But then there is always that human factor.
Note edited and revised.
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One verse that pops into my head is Surat El Ikhlas... last verse
Wa lam yakon lahu kufwan ahad.
roughly translated (by me cuz I'm too lazy to find it online now lol)
and there is never any similitude like Him.
How would you explain this verse in light of what you stated earlier?
Excellent question, BOOST. Please allow me say something here for Kyle to understand. On one hand, the quran gives similitudes of Allah and on the other, it warns us and as well as declares that there isn't any. Figure that one out? Also check the verse 2435 for Allah
s similitude. Quran gives us all sorts of attributes of Allah and at the same time it professes Allah's incomprehensibility, fathomless, unimaginable. ??? O0 Can such lunacies come from the Lord who built the Heavens and the Earth? The orthodox Muslims, regardless of what the Quran says, will have you massacred in gazllion pieces for such utternaces and the more refined, educated and 'specialized' ones will innovate to whimsical idiosyncrasies and veil the orthodox ones. -
Peace be upon you Danish,
I leave you in Peace brother
Boost, I will respond shortly to your question.
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Peace be upon you Danish,
I leave you in Peace brother )
Boost, I will respond shortly to your question.
No sweat, mate. ) I shall leave you with BOOST and others to continue while I sit back, relax and watch this 'movie' unfold. Good luck.
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Peace be upon you Boost,
regarding Chapter 112
(1121-4) Say "He is The One God." The absolute God did not give birth/procreate , and was not born/procreated And (there) is not for Him any equal/match.
Correct, there is no EQUAL to the One God.
Let me ask you this, if the God is the ONE and ONLY, and is Omnipresent, then who and where are "you"? if the God is there, how can "you" be there?
We are all ONE at the core of our being, we manifest as many, but it is only illusory. It is a verifyable fact that all material is made from atoms and can be broken down to just one energy.
So just like a glass of ocean water compared to the ocean, the glass of ocean water is a "mini ocean", but we cannot say it is the Ocean itself. Similarly, lets take Shakesperare and his mental creation of Hamlet. While Hamlet is a manifestation of Shakespeare, Hamlet cannot say "I am shakespeare".
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Peace Idolfree1
These are some really interesting points you raised that I'll need time to think thru and digest before I can respond one way or another...
Thanks for more food for thought
Would love to see other people's reactions to Idolfree1's last post too it might help the thought process along for me
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Peace Idolfree
One question that pops in my mind ... how do you know that that's true? Is it a leap of faith or is there something that points to us being all a bunch of cups of ocean so to speak?