Beating Women
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Salam sister BOOST
I decided to write a small reply for now, it is about 1031 PM and my family went for a walk so I came to my wireless hot spot and put the following together for you,
First of all, I stated that Layth argument of using another verse that uses a different word but similar letters can?t be admissible, if you use this flawed root method to understand the Quran then you will end up with many non sensible verses, I said this many times but in here most members suffer from a high lever of arrogance that is beyond my ability to tackle so I decided to leave them with what they made up and just dialogue with those Muslims who have Albab
Here is a simple example in how the flawed root method can?t be used to understand the Quran
Allah sets forth an example There is a slave in whom are (several) partners differing with one another, and there is another slave wholly owned by one man. Are the two alike in condition? (All) praise is due to Allah. Nay! most of them do not know.
(29)
-> Can you see the word in red above?, it is ??, it is pronounced ?Salma? and it means ? wholly owned?, sort of peace because the other man is owned by many masters who are fighting for him, the second man however is owned by one master and that is why Allah used the word Salma to express that he is owned by one only and there is no fight for him.
On another verse we read the same exact word but it means Ladder
And if their turning away is hard on you, then if you can seek an opening (to go down) into the earth or a ladder (to ascend up) to heaven so that you should bring them a sign and if Allah had pleased He would certainly have gathered them all on guidance, therefore be not of the ignorant.
(35)
-> See it in red ? ?, pronounced ?Soloma? and it means ?Ladder?, and it has absolutely nothing to do with the root S L M which mean peace but yet it has the same root, i.e. the roots has no meaning on their own and must be put in a context to make up meaning
Now let?s look at 434 along with 5811 and you will see clearly that if you follow Layth flawed understanding you will end up with a huge contradiction between the two verse
Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping-places and beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great.
(34)
What we can understand from above that ?Nishooz? is something really bad because that was FEARED by the men and Allah is telling the men to do a few things about it, therefore at least from 434 ?Nishooz? is something really bad that should not be done by the wives,
I wonder how come for the wives to RISE UP can be considered something bad?, hmmm, it makes me laugh indeed, it has to be the least ?Something bad?
Now we read in on 5811 that Allah is ordering us to commit ?Nishooz? according to Layth understanding
O you who believe! when it is said to you, Make room in (your) assemblies, then make ample room, Allah will give you ample, and when it is said Rise up, then rise up. Allah will exalt those of you who believe, and those who are given knowledge, in high degrees; and Allah is Aware of what you do.
(11)
-> See dear sister ? ?, i.e. according to Layth ?and if it is said to you to do something bad?, then ??, i.e. an order from Allah to make commit something bad as well it will be rewarded ? Allah will exalt those of you who believe, and those who are given knowledge, in high degrees? because they had the knowledge to Yanshizoo, i.e. they knew how to do something bad after they were said to them by other humans to do something bad
Absolute non sense if you ask me, whatever you go with meaning of Anshizoo as to "Rise up" or "to commit something bad", you will end up with a big contradiction between 434 and 5811
I rest my case
Salam
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nushooz comes from nashaza
to be high, lifted up, rise up, behave ill, be disobedient, ill treat, be rebeliouss, hate, detest, be different, treat unjustly, be unkind, desert, leave the place and taking up an abode which does not take, be cruel and evil companion
Abdul Amman Omar's Quran dictionary, Righab's Quran dictionary, Tay-UlRoos. Lisan Alarab, Lane's Lexicon.
We know you speak Arabic dear AB, and we know you think you need dictionary's. Your Arabic just came right of the air. It just appeared out of nowhere. Yes you learned it at school and in your surroundigs. But maybe your surroundings didn't use all the possibilities of the words? Maybe 20th century Arabic uses differs from 6th Arabic uses and possibilities? Maybe modern day Arabic is as much a hadith as the above mentioned dictionaries? Maybe the above mentioned dictionaries where written centuries ago by people who were much closer to the 6th century Arabic uses? Maybe you prefer the wrong hadith? You are good in Modern Arabic, yes, but is your rejection of seeing the difference between Classic Arabic and Modern not based on rejecting simple scientific truth?
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Should we examine the above citations, we will note that the root verb (idiom) daraba (transitive and intransitive) takes several figurative or allegorical connotations which signify to isolate, to separate, to depart, to distance, to exclude, to move away, etc. When a thing is subjected to such case, that means it is to be extracted, distinguished and set forth as an evident example. The idiom daraba in the land denotes to travel or to depart. With respect to the ear, the verb daraba means to block or to prevent hearing. And in regard to the revelation, daraba means to stop, to halt, to abandon and to take away. Obviously, for the truth and false, daraba means to make both of them evident and to distinguish them from each other; whereas, for veils, daraba connotes to draw them over and to cover the bosom. In the seas or rivers, daraba is to strike a path through the water and set the water aside. But for humiliation and shame, daraba is to signify that both of them are pitched over people; however, for a wall, daraba means to be erected, that is, to indicate partition or separation. In regard to the finger tips, necks, faces and backs, it means to cut, to slash and to strike; whereas, for the rest of citations, it means to impel, to shock, to slap, or to damage so as to precipitate the desired impact which is relevant to each respective situation, action or interaction.
Thus, the general connotations of the root verb daraba in the Qur?anic parlance signify to separate, to distance, to depart, to abandon, and so forth.
Considering the above context and situation, the purpose of reconciliation, the Islamic doctrine of human sanctity and dignity, the right of self determination in Islam, the consensual nature of the nuptial association, and the ability of nuptial partners to gracefully dissolve such association without coercion or intimidation, the denotation of daraba in this citation cannot imply the infliction of injury, pain or disgrace. The most candid construal is to imply separation, departure, partition or seclusion, however.
http//www.globalwebpost.com/farooqm/study_res/islam/gender/abusulayman_nowifebeating.html
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Hmmm
Hello JM
the quote above it total non sense
because indeed daraba means to get two things closer togther
when Allah told Moses to Idrab Al Ard with the staff, it means to get the staff closer to the ground
and whe Allah told Moses to Idrab Al Bahr with the staff, it means to get the staff closer to the water
see, what you are following is total non sese
Salam
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nushooz comes from nashaza
to be high, lifted up, rise up, behave ill, be disobedient, ill treat, be rebeliouss, hate, detest, be different, treat unjustly, be unkind, desert, leave the place and taking up an abode which does not take, be cruel and evil companion
Abdul Amman Omar's Quran dictionary, Righab's Quran dictionary, Tay-UlRoos. Lisan Alarab, Lane's Lexicon.
We know you speak Arabic dear AB, and we know you think you need dictionary's. Your Arabic just came right of the air. It just appeared out of nowhere. Yes you learned it at school and in your surroundigs. But maybe your surroundings didn't use all the possibilities of the words? Maybe 20th century Arabic uses differs from 6th Arabic uses and possibilities? Maybe modern day Arabic is as much a hadith as the above mentioned dictionaries? Maybe the above mentioned dictionaries where written centuries ago by people who were much closer to the 6th century Arabic uses? Maybe you prefer the wrong hadith? You are good in Modern Arabic, yes, but is your rejection of seeing the difference between Classic Arabic and Modern not based on rejecting simple scientific truth?
Back again to attacking my language knowledge
hmm, do you see me trying to degrade those english speakers who speaks english which is not my language?
well I will be idiot if I do so
now you also resorting to your old trick of linking my understanding to the hadith, sort of like Layth when he stated that the common understanding is Sunni and that is enough not to follow it, hmmm, fine if you want me sunni, then I'm sunni, now debate me without accusing me of being a sunni because I concede your wrong allegation just to buy my head
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Peace,
No, you have never degraded English speakers. But you may when they try to read a book from the 6th century using MODERN english. And I never called you Sunni. I was refering to the modern Arabic use in the common language as a source. We had this conversation before where you said you don't use the dictionaries, this is why I said what I said.
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Peace bro "AB",
Im very disappointed to hear you interpret "daraba" in 434 to beat those wives just cause they didnt wanna obey their husbands in a certain manner. this is just the same as saying the word "sallu 'ala" means "to pray for" instead of "make contact with/support" thus idolizing Muhammad. Both words are nowdays commonly used by Arabs to mean what i said BUT IT IS BIASED, ILLOGICAL AND TOTALLY WRONG. Bro Layth has also quoted 1811 which in context refers to the persons/humans and it doesnt mean "beating".
Now i wanna ask you some questions
Suppose your wife does not agree with you on a certain issue and rejects your opinion regarding it totally. What she rejected is harmful in your opinion and lets say in some of your neighbours' opinions as well. Now youve warned her and deserted her in bed, what would you do next and how?
Another situation say tomorrow your wife doesnt wanna believe in the Quran anymore and she decides to consider becoming an atheist. Again youve warned her, deserted her in bed and then?
GOD Bless! -
Peace bro "AB",
Salam bro
Im very disappointed
Please don?t be, I was not disappointed when you took the dajjal Rashad Khalifa as your prophet
to hear
I guess you mean ?to read? not ?to hear?
you interpret "daraba" in 434 to beat those wives
Hmmm, please bro read what I said again, your statement above is 100% wrong, because 434 does not say to BEAT ANY WIFE, It is the ill conduct ones ONLY
Do you get it bro or you want me to repeat it for the zillion times?
just cause they didnt wanna obey their husbands in a certain manner.
Of course an ill conduct wife should obey her wise husband when he confront her, but if she insists on the ill conduct then no sex and if she insists on the ill conduct again then I will beat my dear and ill conduct wife as 434 is telling me to do with her who adamantly insists on the wrong
Bro, do you really understand 434 or you just tryin to be smart with me?
this is just the same as saying the word "sallu 'ala" means "to pray for" instead of "make contact with/support" thus idolizing Muhammad.
Dismissed due to irrelevance
Both words are nowdays commonly used by Arabs to mean what i said BUT IT IS BIASED, ILLOGICAL AND TOTALLY WRONG.
I don?t like the wishful thinking bro, you need to prove you non sense using the Quran, now let me do what you did to me when you tried to confuse the subject of 434 by comparing it to ?Salla Allah Ala Mohammad?, bro can you prove to me that R K a prophet sent by Allah using the Quran?, cheers
Bro Layth has also quoted 1811 which in context refers to the persons/humans and it doesnt mean "beating".
Well, I didn?t actually read it however if he did then he just shot himself in the foot, let me bring the verse and prove it to every one including Layth
Then We sealed up their hearing in the Cave for a number of years.
(11)
-> Bro Layth got 1811 totally wrong, when we have an action of verb ?Fi?il? then we need a ?Faa?il? i.e. the entity that is doing the action, this type of sentence most likely will include a ?Maf?ool Bihi?, i.e. the entity which the action (the verb) is performed on it by the ?Faa?il?, let me put in simple manner to avoid causing any confusion to those who want to learn
1- Fi?il = Verb = (Action)
2- Faa?il = Noun = (The entity that is performing the action)
3- Maf?ool Bihi = Noun = (The entity which the action is performed on it)Let?s apply that on 1811 and you will see that Allah (the one who performed the action) never said that He performed it on any human (The Maf?ool Bihi)
The part of 1811 that equal to the above three is highlighted in red
1- Fi?il = Verb = (Action) =
2- Faa?il = Noun = (The entity that is performing the action)
3- Maf?ool Bihi = Noun = (The entity which the action is performed on it)
-> See where bro Layth got it totally wrong, the ?Maf?ool Bihi? which the action is performed on it, is the word ? ?, ?Years?, and as you can see that it is Mansooba Bi Al Fatiha, because any Maf?ool Bihi must be Mansoob, i.e. ?aaaaaa?, ?Senenaaaaa?
I.e. 1811 never stated that Daraba (the action) was performed on any human rather it was performed on the Years, hence it has to be a metaphor to mean ? Then We sealed up their hearing in the Cave for a number of years.?
This mean the verse can also be read as follow
? ?, can you spot the difference?
Wel I have to say the way it is said by Allah by delaying the Maf?ool Bihi to come after more sentence words is more sound and proper in the Arabic language, indeed this technique is widely used in Quran and even by the Arab in their day to day life
I expect bro Layth along with you to concede your fatal mistake regarding 1811, cheers
Now i wanna ask you some questions
Sure
Suppose your wife does not agree with you on a certain issue and rejects your opinion regarding it totally.
The verse does not talk about a decent wife who disagree with her husband, the verse is talking about repetitive offender of an ill conduct wife, do you get it or not?
What she rejected is harmful in your opinion and lets say in some of your neighbours' opinions as well.
Excuse me, we need an example of an ill conduct wife, like a wife who shows half of her breasts in public
What you do to your wife if she insists on that?
I tell you what I will do
- I will advice her politely and show her some Quran verses to support my argument against her,
- If she insists then I will tell her no sex until she covers her breasts in public
- If she insists and I want to keep her then I will beat her, she can take me to court if she wishes and on that day she will be divorced and thrown in the streets and she will never see her children again until she repents, see I dont want my children to be ill conducted like their ill conduct mothe who does not care about the father of those childrenr
How about you, what you will do?
Now youve warned her and deserted her in bed, what would you do next and how?
If I want to keep her then I will beat her as Allah advised me to do and if I don?t want to keep her, no beating and there will be no advice either, she will be thrown in the streets and she will never see her children again until she repents, tough luck to her, she is so ill conduct, isn?t she?
Another situation say tomorrow your wife doesnt wanna believe in the Quran anymore and she decides to consider becoming an atheist.
Excuse me, this is not Nishooz, please stop living your Barbie world of imagination, this is called Kufr and according to the Quran I have to divorce her and marry a believer even if I love my Kafir wife to death
And do not marry the idolatresses until they believe, and certainly a believing maid is better than an idolatress woman, even though she should please you; and do not give (believing women) in marriage to idolaters until they believe, and certainly a believing servant is better than an idolater, even though he should please you; these invite to the fire, and Allah invites to the garden and to forgiveness by His will, and makes clear His communications to men, that they may be mindful.
(221)
-> See how you got it totally wrong by confusing Kufr with Nishooz?, hmmm, please don?t come and tell me that 2221 is talking about a Mushrik not a Kafir, and if you do then let me tell ya
Every Mushrik is a Kafir but not every Kafir is a Mushrik, (Iblis is a good example to use)
Therefore 2221 covers the Musrik and the Kafir wife, Allah is telling us ? And do not marry the idolatresses until they believe, and certainly a believing maid is better than an idolatress woman, even though she should please you; and do not give (believing women) in marriage to idolaters until they believe, and certainly a believing servant is better than an idolater, even though he should please you;?, now when I married her she was calling herself a believer and sure no one can know that except Allah, then she started to call herself a disbeliever, now I can?t say that only Allah knows that because that law does not apply to the disbelievers, hence I have to divorce her and marry a believer even if that believer is a slave, and even if I love my Kafir wife to death, this is because she will invite me to the fire ? these invite to the fire, and Allah invites to the garden and to forgiveness by His will, and makes clear His communications to men, that they may be mindful.?
Now I expect you to concede that you got it wrong by suggesting Kufr is Nishooz, thank you
Again youve warned her, deserted her in bed and then?
GOD Bless!If you are talking about the wife that became kafir then 434 does not apply and straight away I have to divorce her and look forward to marry a believer even if that believer is a slave and even if I love my kafir wife to death, but if you are talking about a case of Nishooz like showing half of her breasts in public or wearing mini skirts or possibly using too much Max Factor, then 434 will be triggered
Peace all sisters here,
Please dont allow such ignorant and satanic interpretations of Quranic verses to be spread. Also if your married dont remain silent if your husbands' have beaten you. GOD Bless!Bro, your message above is not accurate, it is just a case of you getting excited, LOL, any way I agree with you that if a husband beats his well conduct and respected wife then she should not be silent as well she should apply what Allah told her to do, that is because the husband in that case will be the one held in contempt and that means we are dealing with a Nashiz husband
And if a woman fears ill usage or desertion on the part of her husband, there is no blame on them, if they effect a reconciliation between them, and reconciliation is better, and avarice has been made to be present in the (people's) minds; and if you do good (to others) and guard (against evil), then surely Allah is aware of what you do.
(12
-> See, the solution for the wise women dealing with an ill conduct husband is almost 2/3 identical to the solution for the wise husband dealing with an ill conduct wife, the only difference between the two that the wise wife should not beat her ill conduct husband and that is to protect her from being hit back by her ill conduct husband
Now why I said your message is not accurate, simply because you are confusing two different subjects
-> First subject of an ill conduct wife and a wise husband, 434 is triggered
-> Second subject of an ill conduct husband and a wise wife, 4128 is triggered
I rest my case for good
Salam
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Peace bro "AB",
Excuse me, we need an example of an ill conduct wife, like a wife who shows half of her breasts in public
What you do to your wife if she insists on that?
I tell you what I will do
- I will advice her politely and show her some Quran verses to support my argument against her,
- If she insists then I will tell her no sex until she covers her breasts in public
- If she insists and I want to keep her then I will beat her, she can take me to court if she wishes and on that day she will be divorced and thrown in the streets and she will never see her children again until she repents, see I dont want my children to be ill conducted like their ill conduct mothe who does not care about the father of those childrenr
How about you, what you will do?
JK- This is an extreme example. However even if she insists on that which is ofcourse probably because she is 1) mentally ill 2) the husband did something wrong or was causing injustice by interpreting Quran wrtong suing hadith which we see a hell alot in those hislamic countries. Anyways even if she does that and she remains stubborn the last option would be to sperate. The claim to beat before dicorce is corrupt and nonsensible.
If I want to keep her then I will beat her as Allah advised me to do and if I don?t want to keep her, no beating and there will be no advice either, she will be thrown in the streets and she will never see her children again until she repents, tough luck to her, she is so ill conduct, isn?t she?
JK- If youve beaten her then the judge may decide to take the children away from you as well.
Excuse me, this is not Nishooz, please stop living your Barbie world of imagination, this is called Kufr and according to the Quran I have to divorce her and marry a believer even if I love my Kafir wife to death
JK- Im not talking abt divorce, since tht is fine in this case n is what should happen , no beating. This is your problem you wanna beat her as a last resort before divorce and this can lead to disater. A respecful separation would be adequate. So what is "nushooz". Everyone can interpret that differently and automctically get a ticket to beat her wife if she remins stubborn through the first two options. Give me a list of examples what you think "nushooz" is not just one extreme one.
Every Mushrik is a Kafir but not every Kafir is a Mushrik, (Iblis is a good example to use)
JK- This maybe correct to a certain degree. A kaafir is one who rejects the truth after it comes to him whilst a mushrik is one associating partners with GOD. But it can be argued that a rejector of truth is wrshipping his EGO and thus his committed shirk as well. So theyr kinna interrelated. GOD Bless!
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PEace all
Its been awhile for me, i've been so busy with the holiday season D
Happy New Years and Eid Mubarak to all who celebrate it.I think the underlying issue is the concept of nishooz. You see, to me i really do believe that the God has made men to be our protectors. Biologically speaking we are made differently. Our brains are wired differently also. While i have plenty to offer my husband and children, i have limitations and these limitations i have are things desperately needed. So i really do believe i have to listen to my husband. i know this may annoy many "feminists" but i believe this really is how the world works. And if i try to go against this reality, i will cause too many problems to happen to me. so even though "it's not fair" i have to dress modestly and not expose myself. Even though "it's not fair" i have to make sure i don't draw unwanted attention to myself and act in a strong yet humble manner. It may not be fair, but if i chose a good and wise husband, he'll probably know how dirty men think and i'll need to listen to him. this is called honoring my husband. if i can't honor him in his presence and absence then i might as well end the marriage. so to me, a husband telling me what i should or shouldn't do is very normal. so i need to choose very wisely when i marry, so that i know that we have the same views of what is decent and what is not. for example, i doubt i would be able to obey a man who tells me to wear niqab for no reason in usa. so someone like that i wouldn't marry to begin with because i know i couldn't honor him the way i should.
if we submit to the way of the God, then the above issue of obeying your believing husband comes naturally.so the problem is when a husband beats me for no reason. if that is the case, then i need to get away from such an abusive relationship. this is not condoned in any verse.
if he beats me because he's a wahabi and i'm not, chances are he's not my husband.
so i think that really settles the issue of nishooz. whether you call it ill-conduct or just not listening to your husband, its wrong according to the God's book.
Grammatically, i'm just not good enough in classical arabic to understand whether the word daraba means to strike or to separate. but i do know that if you want to say "to separate from them" you would have to use 3anhunna in the phrase. i still didn't really get a response about that from anyone who believes that the word daraba in 434 is not to strike.
Salam
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Peace sister "BOOST",
Sister dont tell me you want your husband to beat you when you disobey him. This is not right at all. Even if hes a Quran Aloner he can always have views different than yours regarding the Quran as well. What if he believes you have rebelled against him then he warns you, but you say no, he seprates the bed, but you still believe what you think is right(and whilst men can understand certain things better than women so can women understand certain things better than men so tht aint to be an issue at all), so he starts beating you. Would you agree with that? Would that solve the problem? Would that make you become obedient to your husband(btw when the Quran mentions women to be obedient it means to GOD not to the husband, tht is another silly hadithist notion)? Dont give your husband the right to beat you. No woman should. Take this advice from a man and im not a feminist either.
I believe as Arnold does or at least did once and he brought me to that understanding which is idrbohunna means "to have sexual relations with her". Checkout "Ahmed Ali's" translation for this. Indeed this solves the issue first separate the beds for a while to stir up emotions and then come together making love. This clears all misundrstandings but never beating. GOD Bless! -
You see, to me i really do believe that the God has made men to be our protectors
peace BOOST,
Men were not created after women. And I think you know that most men are NOT protectors of women. So I don't know why you really believe that.
The reason we have sexes is because of the way we reproduce. If we reproduced asexually, we would all be one sex.
And yes, men and women are different.
While i have plenty to offer my husband and children, i have limitations and these limitations i have are things desperately needed. So i really do believe i have to listen to my husband.
what limitations?
the only limitations you have are the ones you put on yourself. It is true that NORMALLY men and women are good at different things, and that at least should dictate their roles in society, but there is no reason you HAVE to listen to your husband. You are his partner, not his servant. Whatever decisions you make you make together. Obviously, there are some things your husband knows better than you do, so you take his advice because you trust him, not because he is your god given protector and you need to listen to him to survive.
But please give me an example of something you have limitations in?i know this may annoy many "feminists" but i believe this really is how the world works. And if i try to go against this reality, i will cause too many problems to happen to me. so even though "it's not fair" i have to dress modestly and not expose myself. Even though "it's not fair" i have to make sure i don't draw unwanted attention to myself and act in a strong yet humble manner.
Believe me, I hate feminists, but I don't agree with you here.
The reason you are supposed to dress modestly is for your own good. We all know that. No one is forcing this on you that makes it "unfair." Your husband would not like it if you suddenly started dressing like a prostitute, because that was not the woman he married. If you always dressed like a whore, you never would've married your husband and he never would have married you.t may not be fair, but if i chose a good and wise husband, he'll probably know how dirty men think and i'll need to listen to him. this is called honoring my husband. if i can't honor him in his presence and absence then i might as well end the marriage.
IF you chose a good and wise husband. But we all make mistakes. What if you chose a bad husband? do you still "honor" him? NO.
Again, the reason you should listen to your husband is because you trust him. Not because you HAVE to listen to your husband no matter how big of an asshole he is.so i think that really settles the issue of nishooz. whether you call it ill-conduct or just not listening to your husband, its wrong according to the God's book.
So wait, when your husband does something you don't like, you end the marriage. So why does your husband have to beat you when you do something wrong?
If my female parnter does something I don't like, and keeps don't it, I will get away from her. I will not beat an adult in hopes of changing them. I do not view women as servants of men, I view them as fellow human beings. If I beat my wife, she might obey me from then on, but only because she is afraid of me. I do not want that kind of a relationship.
The fact is that the permission to beat your wives is very easy to abuse. Every SOB will beat his wife because she forgot sugar in his coffee or something like that. How can you not see that?
Marriage is like friendship.
When your friend betrays you, you don't beat them, you leave them. If your friend does something against the law, then it is up to the authority to deal with him. -
Peace "phoenix"
I will not beat an adult in hopes of changing them.
JK- The use of the word "adult" above gives the connottation that its ok to beat children which i hope you wldnt agree with becuase i dont. Infact my mentality is "a MAN may beat another adult MAN if theyve been proven to have done something very wrong BUT never a woman or a child". GOD Bless!
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peace JK,
I don't believing in beating kids. The reason I said "adult" was because I was trying to say that adults don't change that easily. You can successfully change a kid's behavior, but with adults it's near impossible I think. So if you don't like the adult you are living with, the best thing to do is to seperate from them. -
PEace Bro Johnny
Honoring my husband does not mean that I have no opinions of my own. Or that i practice no autonomy. Why does it have to be black and white? Where are the shades of grey? My husband, if he follows quran, will not opress me. He will not enforce his opinions on everything and I just listen and obey. This is not honoring anybody this is called slavery.
Honoring my husband entails listening to him if he tells me to do something or not to do something that would be detrimental to my safety, or our marriage, or something that goes against the teachings of al quran, or our children. He can't just tell me you eat only chicken from now on and then i must listen and obey. This is silly. I don't know what Muslim quran-obeying man would beat his wife because they disagree on a translation of a verse in the quran. This is called discussion.
This is one thing i don't understand about certain people. They make things so extreme just to prove a point and it becomes like a circus act. If we read the verse 434 it would be clear that we must accept this arrangement from the God that we as women must honor our husbands in their presense and absence.
believe as Arnold does or at least did once and he brought me to that understanding which is idrbohunna means "to have sexual relations with her". Checkout "Ahmed Ali's" translation for this. Indeed this solves the issue first separate the beds for a while to stir up emotions and then come together making love. This clears all misundrstandings but never beating. GOD Bless!
so now we have another translation? Stop having sex with them for awhile and then start again? According to you that stirs up emotions? Nice try but unless you give me proof that this is the meaning of daraba, i can't just believe you.
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PEace bro Johnny
I never heard of "hislamic" before. Is that a made-up word from someone who used to post at free-minds? Let's stick to english, not "Danish"-language.
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PEace Bro Phoenix
Men were not created after women.
What does this have to do with anything?
And I think you know that most men are NOT protectors of women.
My husband would be my protector, yes. What were you thinking of?
what limitations?
the only limitations you have are the ones you put on yourself.do you live in this world?
It is true that NORMALLY men and women are good at different things, and that at least should dictate their roles in society, but there is no reason you HAVE to listen to your husband. You are his partner, not his servant.
Again you, like bro johnny, go for either 100% or 0%. If you haven't noticed, nothing in life is like that. It's not that if i listen to my husband then i automatically become his servent. Do you listen to your parents? Are you their servent? Do you listen to your manager at work? Are you his servent? Do you obey laws? Are you a slave to your country? Do you play sports and follow rules? are you a servent to your coach or referree? I rest my case.
Whatever decisions you make you make together. Obviously, there are some things your husband knows better than you do, so you take his advice because you trust him, not because he is your god given protector and you need to listen to him to survive.
Obviously there ARE some things my husband would know better than me so i listen to him. Who talked about surviving or dying? Who talked about having my husband as my god? Again, why do you go to extremes?
But please give me an example of something you have limitations in?
Easy, i'm a petite girl that could easily be physically over-powered. My husband (i would hope) would be stronger than me.
Believe me, I hate feminists, but I don't agree with you here.
The reason you are supposed to dress modestly is for your own good. We all know that. No one is forcing this on you that makes it "unfair."I know it is for my own good. but many feminists say that is "unfair" why don't men just behave, etc etc. If you read my post carefully i said we must go by what reality is and not what we think is "fair and unfair" as feminists claim.
Your husband would not like it if you suddenly started dressing like a prostitute, because that was not the woman he married. If you always dressed like a whore, you never would've married your husband and he never would have married you.
oh so hypothetically speaking since i'm not a whore and don't dress like one either, if i started to dress like a prostitute and my husband tells me don't go out like that, do i listen to him or no? and if i do, does that make me his slave?
IF you chose a good and wise husband. But we all make mistakes. What if you chose a bad husband? do you still "honor" him? NO.
Again, the reason you should listen to your husband is because you trust him. Not because you HAVE to listen to your husband no matter how big of an asshole he is.Well, i guess you didn't really read my post then. Because i specifically said it is very important to choose wisely and make sure we agree on basics. I also said if a person was just abusive i'd have to just leave him. And if he was wahabi and wanted me to be one too, i wouldn't marry him to begin with. So, yes i HAVE to listen to my husband. But my husband would have to be a believer or else he WOULDN'T be my husband. If i can't honor him like he needs to be honored, then i must leave him. Better than staying in a relationship where we will both disrespect and disgrace each other.
So wait, when your husband does something you don't like, you end the marriage. So why does your husband have to beat you when you do something wrong?
If my female parnter does something I don't like, and keeps don't it, I will get away from her. I will not beat an adult in hopes of changing them. I do not view women as servants of men, I view them as fellow human beings. If I beat my wife, she might obey me from then on, but only because she is afraid of me. I do not want that kind of a relationship.
The fact is that the permission to beat your wives is very easy to abuse. Every SOB will beat his wife because she forgot sugar in his coffee or something like that. How can you not see that?
Marriage is like friendship.
When your friend betrays you, you don't beat them, you leave them. If your friend does something against the law, then it is up to the authority to deal with him.You don't have to beat anyone. It's not mandatory. And it's not for a woman who forgot sugar in your coffee. And its not for a man who would beat his wife if she forgot sugar in his coffee.