REF: virgin birth, what about Cloning ?
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Peace
Believing in the Virgin Birth of Isa is not blind faith. If you say that a person cannot be born without two parents, how was Adam born? What you are not understanding is that when God wills something to be it is. The VIRGIN birth of Jesus is outlined very clearly in the Qur'an, it is up to you whether you want to believe it or not, but this on the basis of if you believe in God's true nature, which I will go into
She said, 'My Lord, how can I have a son when no man has touched me?' said, 'This is how God creates what He will when He has ordained something, He only says, "Be", and it is."
"In God's eyes Jesus is just like Adam He created him from dust, said to him 'Be', and he was. This is the truth from your Lord, so do not be one of those who doubt."
It is clear from the Angel's rebuttal that when Mary says when no man has touched me that God means to make her give birth without any conception hence the retort. If you twist it to mean anything else match it with the second verse, GOD DID NOT SAY HE MADE JESUS FROM SPURTING FLUID. HE MADE HIM FROM DUST (WITHOUT A FATHER) LIKE ADAM. the likeness is that they they were created this way when no-one else was that is why God said just like Adam then explained what He meant, He didn't say he was alike to him in birth or mother or anything else just HOW they were created. The rest of mankind IS made from spurting fluid, and there are more than enough verses in the Qur'an to back this up.
"Read! In the name of your Lord who created He created man from a clinging form...But man exceeds all bounds when he thinks he is self-sufficient"
96"He first created man from clay, then made his descendants from an extract of underrated fluid. Then He moulded him; He breathed from His Spirit into him; He gave you hearing, sights, and minds. How seldom you are grateful!"
329God said he made this Qur'an clear for all peoples, there are no riddles or esoteric truths in the Qur'an, there is too much picking apart of the Qur'an and not much putting the Qur'an into action on this forum. Jesus was born of a Virgin, that's all you need to know, that's all that is given, anything else after that is not of your knowledge just as the life of Mohammed after the Revelation is not important or to the knowledge of the believers. The Qur'an is not a book of mystery, it is meant to clarify not throw people into conjecture and dispute. Only those who disbelieve will be deceived and think this book is but ancient fables. God will seal their hearts. And it happens all the time. But people will always dispute after revelation is brought to them, the Jews did it, the Christians did it. God even swears by the clarity of the Qur'an...
"By the Scripture that makes things clear..."
442"We have made it easy to learn lessons from the Qur'an will anyone take heed?"
5417"These are the verses of the Scipture that makes things clear..."
282God does as he pleases.
But people will always say "these are ancient fables" and "there are no miracles" and "he made it up" till the Day of Reckoning. These are what the disbelievers say. So bear patience.
What does Physics say about the expansion of the Universe? The theory of inflation is in the process of being proven incorrect. It is only the layman who thinks science has all the answers. The researchers, and boundary breakers in science will truly tell you they have NO IDEA what is going on. Feynmann, Einstein, Bohr, look up their quotes on general relativity, quantum electrodynamics, the Bohr's atom, if you have any idea what they are relating to (your very existence). God rules through laws, and we exhibit his laws through experiment and research, collectively the sciences, but THIS IS NOT COMPLETE NOR IS IT DEFINITE, God is the Eternal Truth. And God can do as he pleases, it is His domain not ours. The Big Bang was not our choice, we were not there at that time, how arrogant humans are! Yet we want to claim we know the answers and can disprove miracles. There are many scientists however who have converted to true Islam and have found understanding eg Gary Miller, please look at this http//www.mydeviant.com/miller/gary_miller.html The air we breathe is a miracle, the eyes we see the sunset with are miracles. The brains and hearts we possess are miracles. Arrogance should be stripped away and we should remember what we came from (sperm, and before that dust) and that we are not Gods on Earth doing as we please. and we should appreciate that God has control over all things in His Domain and we are His servants.
Peace
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GOD DID NOT SAY HE MADE JESUS FROM SPURTING FLUID. HE MADE HIM FROM DUST (WITHOUT A FATHER) LIKE ADAM.
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Your mythological understanding of Adam also had no mother, so the comparison would be faulty then. Plus your version of Adam was created without any womb or anything. Again, what is left of the comparison? Your version of Adam was created without ANY humans, while your version of Jesus was created with a mother. How can they be compared!!!! Clearly this creates a contradiction and the Qur'an contains none.
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All of mankind is made out of dust...
1837 And his friend answered him in the course of their argument "Wilt thou blaspheme against Him who has created thee out of dust, and then out of a drop of sperm, and in the end has fashioned thee into a man?
225 O people, if you are in doubt as to the resurrection, then We have created you from dust, then from a seed, then from an embryo, then from a fetus developed and undeveloped so that We make it clear to you. We settle in the wombs what We wish to an appointed time, then We bring you out a child, then you reach your maturity, and of you are those who will pass away, and of you are those who are sent to an old age where he will not be able to learn any new knowledge after what he already has. You see the land still, but when We send down the water to it, it vibrates and grows, and it brings forth of every lovely pair
3020 And among His wonders is this He creates you out of dust and then, lo! you become human beings ranging far and wide!
3511 And God creates you out of dust...
4067 It is He who creates you out of dust..
Muhammad Asad - The Message Of Quran
Muhammad Asad - End Note 47 (366)Lit., "The parable of Jesus is as the parable of Adam...", etc. The expression mathal (rendered above as "nature" is often metaphorically employed to denote the state or condition (of a person or a thing), and is in this sense - as the commentators have pointed out - synonymous with sifah (the "quality" or "nature" of a thing). As is evident from the sequence, the above passage is part of an argument against the Christian doctrine of the divinity of Jesus. The Qur'an stresses here, as in many other places, the fact that Jesus, like Adam - by which name, in this context, the whole human race is meant - was only a mortal "created out of dust", i.e., out of substances, both organic and inorganic, which are found in their elementary forms on and in the earth. Cf. also 1837, 225, 3020, 3511, 4067, where the Qur'an speaks of all human beings as "created out of dust". That "Adam" stands here for the human race is clearly implied in the use of the present tense in the last word of this sentence.
Adam=Human skin, Human being, Man, Person, Intelligent Person, Brown Man, Human Race, Mankind, Civilized Person, Person who is created from different substances, Person in possession of different powers, One who has heirs, One who enjoys the conforts of Life, One who is by nature social and hard.
So a better rendition of the verse is
359 The example of Jesus with God is similar to that of all of Mankind; He created him from dust, then He said to him Be and he was.
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No sir, you are either in error, or maybe we agree on only some aspects.
Jesus and Adam are alike in how they were created. They were not made from spurting fluid. They were made from dust. Whether or not born in womb or simply created out of no parent that is their only likeness that is all God says they are in likeness to THAT THEY WERE NOT MADE FROM SPERM BUT DUST (which is why God said it all together in one sentence). All of mankind was created from SPERM except Adam and Jesus. The quotes you use simply mean that We all came from sperm AND BEFORE THAT we all originated from ADAM who was CREATED FROM DUST. So in essence WE ARE ALL FROM DUST. Even though we are born from sperm, we go back to Adam who is the only one APART FROM JESUS, created from dust. Your quotes you use do not contradict. Nor is my understanding of Adam "mythological" it is only logical.
225 O people, if you are in doubt as to the resurrection, then We have created you from dust, then from a seed, then from an embryo, then from a fetus developed and undeveloped so that We make it clear to you.
The dust part is Adam, then his descendents were born from his seed and from then on it was thus. But we all come from dust and we all return to dust.
Peace
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No sir, you are in error.
Jesus and Adam are alike in how they were created. They were not made from spurting fluid. They were made from dust. that is their only likeness that is all God says they are in likeness to HOW THEY WERE CREATED (which is why God said it all together in one sentence). All of mankind was created from SPERM except Adam and Jesus. The quotes you use simply mean that We all came from sperm AND BEFORE THAT we all originated from ADAM who was CREATED FROM DUST. So in essence WE ARE ALL FROM DUST. Even though we are born from sperm, we go back to Adam who is the only one APART FROM JESUS, created from dust. Your quotes you use do not contradict. Nor is my understanding of Adam "mythological" it is only logical.
Peace
In what sense and how was Adam contructed by dust? Was he first made into clay and then life was breathed into him? So the clay became cells of carbon? And was Jesus also made out of silicone/clay in Mary's womb? Or was any sort of cells involved in her womb?
Also why is the last word in the verse 359 in present tense making Adam present now here?
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In what sense and how was Adam contructed by dust? Was he first made into clay and then life was breathed into him? So the clay became cells of carbon? And was Jesus also made out of silicone/clay in Mary's womb? Or was any sort of cells involved in her womb?
Also why is the last word in the verse 359 in present tense making Adam present now here?
I said earlier God does as he pleases, He says so in the Qur'an. I was not there at the time of Adam so it would be arrogant to assume such things as how exactly he was created. But God outlines it does he not? I'll find the quote for you on how He created Jesus
"Jesus, son of Mary, was nothing more than a messenger of God, His word, directed to Mary, a spirit from Him."
God willed it so it was, regardless of how it happened. He was born. I was not there with a microscope nor was I the midwife, so my basis on this debate is the Qur'an alone and not my own experiences. The likeness between Jesus and Adam is that they were not born from underrated fluid. I don't see how it is that hard to accept. In the Qur'an God addresses Mankind and he says
"it is He who shapes you all in the womb as He pleases."
36Now Adam was not born in the womb. And there are no contradictions in the Qur'an. As you know so the sense of all means Mankind as descendants from ADAM are ALL different from Adam in that he had no womb. God makes it clear that Adam is different in "the Cow" and throughout the Qur'an. So this further proves what I was saying that WE all come from sperm and we all trace back to Adam who came from Dust. This does not contradict and God outlines this process in the verses you yourself quoted. We are not the same as Adam in our birth, but we did come from Adam and he was from Dust. Jesus was born in a womb so he is different from Adam in this sense along with all mankind. Only Adam had no womb. Try making a baby with no womb... IVF involves reinsertion of the fertilised egg back into the woman.Again the ONLY likeness between Christ and First Man is that they were not made from underrated fluid. Nothing else.
Peace
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Again the ONLY likeness between Christ and First Man is that they were not made from underrated fluid. Nothing else.
That is a subjective interpretation not an absolute one. So we have to disagree on this point then.
Peace
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That is a subjective interpretation not an absolute one. So we have to disagree on this point then.
Peace
It is what I understand yes. I hope I made it clear why I believe this? I do understand what you are saying, and it makes sense to me also, I agree with most of what you are saying. All my basis in this debate is what I read in the Qur'an.
Peace
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Example of why it is not subjective.
If I say "Me and my sister are just alike we both come from our Mother and Father"
That is not a contradictive statement. Because I am sayin we are alike only on these terms. I am not sayin we are both female, both the same age or both the same in every way shape or form. In this statement we are only alike in Mother and Father giving us life. The first part gives us the idea, the second part gives us the PRECISE context. This is the same in the verse we are disputing about. Now if you read that statement any way else that is your misinterpretation. Because that sentence is clear, it only refers to the Mother and Father. Just as the verse in the Qur'an refers to only creation from dust. As you know Man is either created from dust or sperm. Since God says they are both from dust, then they are not from sperm. Therefore they are just alike they both did not come from spurting fluid. There can be no bias involved, it is just logical.
Peace
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A/A to all.
Before we should ponder on the verses of Quoran we must keep a big picture of the universe. Try to understand the laws of nature. We are living in the age of technology. The Holy Quoran commands us not to have blind faith and always reason.
The story of Adam and Eve is a symbolic not in reality. Adam is the person who is God fearing and wise, guiding people to the right track. Prophet Moses has been given the attribution of Adam mentioneed in Quoran.According to Bible the Adam appeared about five thousand years ago where as the body of dead person was found in Kenya which is one hundred thousand years old.
One of my friend who introduced me to your website asked me how come jesus was addressed as son of Mary several times not by his father's name, A good question???
It reminds me about one of our own story. We belong to a village of Peshawar Pakistan. The population was about ten thousand at that time. One of my aunt was married to a gentleman who was from another town about five miles away. My auntie husband was in army so they had been moving from one place to another. My auntie had two sons, when she visited the village after long time, almost those ten thousand people knew that these two boys are the sons of auntie (her name). no body ever mentioned the name of their father as they did not know.I hope viewers will have a clear picture now. Please keep in mind God Almighty will never break his law for any one.
Till one does not sow nothing will crop up. But a seed a mango is sowed do not expect apple. -
A/A to all.
Before we should ponder on the verses of Quoran we must keep a big picture of the universe. Try to understand the laws of nature. We are living in the age of technology. The Holy Quoran commands us not to have blind faith and always reason.
The story of Adam and Eve is a symbolic not in reality. Adam is the person who is God fearing and wise, guiding people to the right track. Prophet Moses has been given the attribution of Adam mentioneed in Quoran.According to Bible the Adam appeared about five thousand years ago where as the body of dead person was found in Kenya which is one hundred thousand years old.
One of my friend who introduced me to your website asked me how come jesus was addressed as son of Mary several times not by his father's name, A good question???
It reminds me about one of our own story. We belong to a village of Peshawar Pakistan. The population was about ten thousand at that time. One of my aunt was married to a gentleman who was from another town about five miles away. My auntie husband was in army so they had been moving from one place to another. My auntie had two sons, when she visited the village after long time, almost those ten thousand people knew that these two boys are the sons of auntie (her name). no body ever mentioned the name of their father as they did not know.I hope viewers will have a clear picture now. Please keep in mind God Almighty will never break his law for any one.
Till one does not sow nothing will crop up. But a seed a mango is sowed do not expect apple.o
rotfl
Are you Arnold, using different name confused
God can break his Law any time he wants, as he did with Jesus virgin birth, Moses when he spoke directly to God, the people of Cave, When God Blew out the Mountain.
jedi
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A/A. to all.
I am just a new member on board.
I am working at a place where internet is seldom avavialble and more over I am too busy to find some time to look at intrenet. However, I will try my best to participate in the forum.
Quoran is commanding us to ponder on the verses which means do not jump on the reading straight away with out understanding the depth.
The time when Mary was living fonication, adultry was very common. Check Bible the old testament and new testament. She was raised in very neat and cleaned evoirments which means she was virgin.
When Mary started growing up Prophet Zakriya was worried to get her married as per the laws of nature. Mary saw a dream where angle in form of man told her that she will be become a mother of a son whose name will be Jesus. She replied how i can become a mother when no man has touched me. Does this mean she has not allowed any man to come to her like committing fornication or adultry. No , not at all rather she was trying to tell that I am not married.
The angle said that will be done per law of nature. Since Mary was dedicated to synogogue and Zakrya was scared of anger by the jewish people so in secretly she was married to Joseph Carpenter.Is these story was revealed to you by your Angle.
Are you a new Prophet o -
Example of why it is not subjective.
If I say "Me and my sister are just alike we both come from our Mother and Father"
That is not a contradictive statement. Because I am sayin we are alike only on these terms. I am not sayin we are both female, both the same age or both the same in every way shape or form. In this statement we are only alike in Mother and Father giving us life. The first part gives us the idea, the second part gives us the PRECISE context. This is the same in the verse we are disputing about. Now if you read that statement any way else that is your misinterpretation. Because that sentence is clear, it only refers to the Mother and Father. Just as the verse in the Qur'an refers to only creation from dust. As you know Man is either created from dust or sperm. Since God says they are both from dust, then they are not from sperm. Therefore they are just alike they both did not come from spurting fluid. There can be no bias involved, it is just logical.
Peace
Hang on!
peace