Criticism of Mecca and Kaaba

ayman

Peace Phoenix,

Hypocrite does not mean a person who does wrong, but a person who tells others to do the right thing, and acts righteous in front of others, but in privacy is a bad person.
So the people who openly refuse to face mecca cannot be hypocrites.
Hypocrites would be people who face mecca but dont really believe that it does anything.
There is no way that facing a physical structure will sort out the believers from the hypocrites.

Of course no one of the promoters of stone idols here can argue against this obvious fact.

They cannot argue against this no more than they can argue that the straight path is a physical path. What they are claiming is as illogical as claiming that "following the messenger" means physically walking behind the messenger wherever he goes or that "turning on the heels" means doing a breakdance move.

It is only when we logically look at all those concepts that we see how they are interconnected. We see that the god guides to a straight path. Those who are guided are those who follow the messenger who brought the truth from our lord by facing the institution of obedience, which is the truth from our lord, wherever we are. So it is not about facing some stone shrine. It is about institutionalizing/implementing the truth of our lord in our lives and in our government.

Peace,

Ayman

phoenix1

peace Ayman

that "turning on the heels" means doing a breakdance move.

lol

It is only when we logically look at all those concepts that we see how they are interconnected. We see that the god guides to a straight path. Those who are guided are those who follow the messenger who brought the truth from our lord by facing the institution of obedience, which is the truth from our lord, wherever we are. So it is not about facing some stone shrine. It is about institutionalizing/implementing the truth of our lord in our lives and in our government.

well said.

unknownuser

Hypocrite does not mean a person who does wrong, but a person who tells others to do the right thing, and acts righteous in front of others, but in privacy is a bad person.

The Quran clearly exposes the ignorance of the above statement, I already allocated the verses and will prepare something tonight inshallah

Salam

phoenix1

hyp?o?crite
?noun

a person who pretends to have virtues, moral or religious beliefs, principles, etc., that he or she does not actually possess, esp. a person whose actions belie stated beliefs.
a person who feigns some desirable or publicly approved attitude, esp. one whose private life, opinions, or statements belie his or her public statements.

That is what "hypocrite" means. Unless the quran was talking about something other than hypocrites, then what I said still stands.

warner

Peace Ayman

Thank you for the response. I do not agree with your views on this subject since I feel there is an attempt to FORCE meaning in to every verse and situation whereas we see in the Quraan the meanings will blend naturally and easily. Also I do not agree with what is going on in Mecca.

What is the Jewish word for a building in which they pray and sounds like ?Mizjid?.

Or is this a familiar Arabic word ?

unknownuser

Hello all

Sorry to change the subject, I believe Waleed earlier said the following

Hypocrite does not mean a person who does wrong, but a person who tells others to do the right thing, and acts righteous in front of others, but in privacy is a bad person.

Then I stated
The Quran clearly exposes the ignorance of the above statement, I already allocated the verses and will prepare something tonight inshallah

There might be a case of misunderstanding in here, my very first comment in which I mentioned the Hypocrites I was clearly talking about the Hypocrites in the religion, not the day to day affairs as Waleed comment now inclines, the point is, I assumed that he was talking about the hypocrites in relation to Isalm, because discussing the other general hypocrites is not needed in this discussion, however his statement above still flawed, it seems he thinks that the hupocrites work undercover or something, well there might be some issues that they do behind the back however their hypocrite action in relation to the religion MUST BE CLEARLY SEEN, the following verses will confirm what I just said

And when it is said to them Come to what Allah has revealed and to the Messenger, you will see the hypocrites turning away from you with (utter) aversion.

(61)

-> See, ?And when it is said to them Come to what Allah has revealed and to the Messenger,?, see how Allah said ? what Allah has revealed and to the Messenger? see how the messenger was listed as independent entity from the Quran, this actually means following his confirmed Sunnah as qualified by the Quran , then Allah is telling us that WE WILL SEE THE HYPOCRITES DOING SOMETHING STRANGE? ?, ?you will see the hypocrites turning away from you with (utter) aversion.?, clearly the hypocrites WILL BE SEEN

The hypocritical men and the hypocritical women are all alike; they enjoin evil and forbid good and withhold their hands; they have forsaken Allah, so He has forsaken them; surely the hypocrites are the transgressors.

(67)

-> We can also see three descriptions relating to the hypocrites ? they enjoin evil and forbid good and withhold their hands?, forget about the hand, at least we will be able to see them ? enjoin evil and forbid good?

7the 3 O Prophet! strive hard against the unbelievers and the hypocrites and be unyielding to them; and their abode is hell, and evil is the destination.

(73)

-> In the above verse we clearly read an order from Allah to ?strive hard against the hypocrites?, as well ?and be unyielding to them?, of course striving against someone means that that one is obvious to see

O Prophet! be careful of (your duty to) Allah and do not comply with (the wishes of) the unbelievers and the hypocrites; surely Allah is Knowing, Wise;

(1)

-> Here is an order NOT to obey the hypocrites ? and do not comply with (the wishes of) the hypocrites?, how this can happen unless the hypocrites are clearly known?

And be not compliant to the unbelievers and the hypocrites, and leave unregarded their annoying talk, and rely on Allah; and Allah is sufficient as a Protector.

(4

-> The verse above is even telling us that we will recognise their AZA (harm to the believers) in addition that we should not obey them, how this can happen unless they are known and not undercover?

There is no doubt that a clear cut religiously hypocrite human MUST BE SEEN WITH EASE

Salam

Jafar

There is no doubt that a clear cut religiously hypocrite human MUST BE SEEN WITH EASE

Salam

You're right dude...
and here's what Quran tell us on a specific chapter dedicated and named after them (The Hypocrites - Al Munafiqun)

When the hypocrites come to you, they say,
'we bear witnesses you are the Messenger of Allah,
And Allah knoweth that thou art indeed His messenge.
And Allah bears witness that the hypocrites are most surely liars.

Sounds like the second part of the infamous "Shahada" eh?

And also the verse on my footer, that also from the Quran...

Salam

Layth

Peace,

Not sure what the topic of this thread is from all these pages, but going by the title, I will add one bit of info.

Recently while speaking with some sunnis, they told me that the Kaaba was not the same shape as it is today, but that it was more rectangular and that it encompassed the footprints of Abraham. they said that this was before the prophet`s time and that the Kaaba was made smaller when it was rebuilt by Quraish.

I looked into this issue a bit more, simply because I have held the view that the maqam must be inside the structure which is why I reject the Mecca kaaba. Anyhow, it came out that in 64 A.H, after the kaaba`s walls were demolished in a seige by the Syrian army, Abdulla Bin Al-Zubair took advantage of the reconstruction to fix the contradiction of the Mecca kaaba with the Quran and went ahead and changed its size and shape to encompass the maqam (he also added another door so people could enter and exit the kaaba).

However, in 74 A.H. Al-Hajjaj Bin Yousif sought permission from the Khalifa (Abdulmalik bin Marwan to bring the kaaba back to the way it was and he therefore took out the new section, brought the maqam out, and sealed the 2nd door.

My friends also mentioned that the well of zam-zam went dry and was burried for 300 years before the prophets uncle had a dream and they dug-up the ground during the prophets time which became zam-zam again (so much for the magic well!).

Anyway, just wanted to share these interesting tid-bits of history.
http//www.missionislam.com/knowledge/kaaba.htm

thegod

ahmedbahgat wrote
The Quran clearly exposes the ignorance of the above statement, I already allocated the verses and will prepare something tonight inshallah

excuse my interruption bro...but do u think the verse 4143 is talking about hypocrites? -)

v saw the lie that "the truth" is almasjid alharam...when in fact the verses are quite clear that the command of god assigning the qibla is "the truth"! -)

v have seen them distort the quran and lie about it....then again, who will lie about the quran save kafirs and munafiqs?

but let us understand what the roots "kfr" and "nfq" denote! the disbelievers distort the quran by trying to gnaw at the roots of a word...let us now unroot their kufr and nifaq! -)

let us first tackle their abuse of lexicons...some disbelievers claim that words have been assigned religious significance after the quran was revealed..as always they have no proof....and simply lie...but let us allow them some lies, to see if their disbelief can be exposed even after allowing them the leeway they beg for! -)

let us consider the word kafir, from "kfr"...if v allow the manipulators' lie that words were given religious connotations later..then the root "kfr" should also be treated the same way! "kfr", according to a lexicon, denotes "veiled/concealed/covered/hid"! according to the very same lexicon the act of sowing seeds in the earth is related to "kfr", the clouds covering the sky is related to "kfr"!

but kafir, from the very root "kfr", used in the context of the quran has a religious significance...one which could not have been assigned to it later...it's quite clear that those who rejected god's message were called kafir not because they were farmers sowing seeds, or cuz they had something to do with the clouds covering the sky! rather, they were called kafir cuz of their denial of god's commands...the very same denial which the kafirs have always displayed with god's command concerning the qibla! -)

let us next look at the word "nfq"...the word yunfiqun, coming from "nfq" is translated as spend/give! do the manipulators then strip "munafiqun" of its meaning and understand it as having to do with spending/giving? why do the liars not translate this word "correctly"? -)

973 Ya ayyuha alnnabiyyu jahidi alkuffara waalmunafiqeena waoghluth AAalayhim wama/wahum jahannamu wabi/sa almaseeru

973 you the prophet, struggle/do your utmost (against) the disbelievers and the hypocrites, and be hard/rough on them, and their shelter/refuge (is) Hell , and how bad (is) the end/destination?

is god telling the prophet to strive against the farmers and the spenders? is that how the manipulators will "correctly" translate the verse?

the manipulators use the lexicons selectively...and with no regard for the context of quran and its verses....they abuse them to so that they can abuse the quran...to make it agreeable to their disbelief! -)

and just for some fun...ask the manipulators the source of these lexicons! -)

another tactic of theirs is to abuse history...why would anybody disregard the entire arab history? save for those parts which they feel serve their lies? how often do v not see them ranting against arab history, yet quote extensively from it when they feel they can use it to propogate their lies! living testimony to quran...as i call them! -)

then why do they adore the works of roman christians and other non-muslims and non-arabs? do they find a verse in the quran which tells them to understand the quran or the arab history from the non-muslims and/or non-arabs? or are they witnesses to the works of the non-muslims and non-arabs that they have made them the basis for their distortion of the book of god? or is it cuz they share their disbelief in quran that they have taken them as their rabbs? and even then, when the non-arab or non-muslim versions corroborate the arab records, they immediately start squirming and vomit more lies!

v saw the chronology from the byzantine source....muhammad is called muameth...abu bakr becomes abubacharus....muawiya is mabias...clear cases of their mispronouncing and misspelling the names!

...and the distorters base their beliefs on such works...and even then selectively! grin

conclusion

v can have some understanding of the behavior of "alladhina kafaru" and "alladhina nafaqu" through these verses

2 6 As for those who disbelieve, it is the same for them; whether you warn them, or not warn them, they cannot believe.

27 Allah hath sealed their hearing and their hearts, and on their eyes there is a covering. Theirs will be an awful doom.

977 So He hath made the consequence (to be) hypocrisy in their hearts until the day when they shall meet Him, because they broke their word to Allah that they promised Him, and because they lied.

unknownuser

Thanks Bro TG

Great evidences bro that should put the flawed root method to shame

so the Munafiqoon are those who spend money, haha

Take care bro

phoenix1

peace Ahmed,
the english word "hypocrite" means what it means. You can't change the meaning of that word.
The word that is being translated as "hypocrite" must be something else. We have to change the translation. OR maybe we just don't understand what the quran means in those verses yet.

unknownuser

peace Ahmed,
the english word "hypocrite" means what it means. You can't change the meaning of that word.

Salam Waleed

I wonder why your logic above does not apply to the Arabic words?, let me say it to you as if you are talking about the Arabic

the arabic word "munafiq" means what it means. You can't change the meaning of that word.

The word that is being translated as "hypocrite" must be something else. We have to change the translation. OR maybe we just don't understand what the quran means in those verses yet.

hmmm, forget translation bro, let me say it to you again

the arabic word "munafiq" means what it means. You can't change the meaning of that word.

unknownuser

Peace all,

Yet again, everyone can see that tg is doing EXACTLY what he is accusing others of doing. He KEEPS LYING that almasjid alharam is a physical building. Not only that, he REFUSES to provide a SINGLE evidence from al-qur'aan to support his LIES. He also REFUSES to answer the multiple IMPOSSIBILITIES/CONTRADICTIONS that his LIES create in the word of The God.

This is what I EXPECTED from him and he is living EXACTLY upto his expectations. He refuses to bring forth his proof as mentioned in the following

2875 And We will extract from every nation a witness, then We will Say "Bring forth your proof." They will then realise that all truth belongs with God, and what they had invented will abandon them.

And he keeps blindly upholding what his fathers are doing per the following

5104 And if they are told "Come to what God has sent down, and to the messenger;" they Say "We are content with what we found our fathers doing." What if their fathers did not know anything nor were guided?

He wants to keep following the majority on earth

6116 And if you obey the majority of those on Earth they will lead you away from God's path; that is because they follow conjecture, and that is because they only guess.

Despite clear proofs from al-qur'aan showing the mental nature of the "sujud" TO THE GOD, and the mental nature of "almasjid", he remains blinded

6104 "Visible proofs have come to you from your Lord; so whoever can see, does so for himself, and whoever is blinded, does the same. I am not a watcher over you."

I guess he does not believe in The God's revelations that tell him to keep almasjid alharam his target/goal/qibla WHEREVER he is

3053 Nor can you enlighten the blind from their straying; but you can only make those who believe in Our revelations listen, for they have submitted.

He also fails to realize that a "physical" qibla will fail to distinguish those who follow the messenger from those who turn on their heels, thus again denying The God's revelations, and inventing lies about The God

621 And who is more wicked than one who invents lies about God, or denies His revelations! The wicked will never succeed.

unknownuser

Peace all,

-> See, ?And when it is said to them Come to what Allah has revealed and to the Messenger,?, see how Allah said ? what Allah has revealed and to the Messenger? see how the messenger was listed as independent entity from the Quran, this actually means following his confirmed Sunnah as qualified by the Quran

This is what Allah has revealed --------> The Qur'aan

This is what Prophet Muhammad reportedly said ---------> Follow The Qur'aan alone (sahih almuslim)

The above is confirmed by The God

1015 And when Our clear revelations are recited to them, those who do not wish to meet Us said "Bring a Quran other than this, or change it!" Say "It is not for me to change it from my own accord, I merely follow what is inspired to me. I fear if I disobey my Lord the retribution of a great day!"

7203 And because you do not bring them a sign, they Say "If only you had brought one." Say "I only follow what is inspired to me from my Lord. This is an evidence from your Lord, and a guide and mercy to a people who believe."

469 Say "I am no different from the other messengers, nor do I know what will happen to me or to you. I only follow what is inspired to me. I am no more than a clear warner"

From this anyone can see how we can come to what Allah has revealed and to the Messenger, and shows how the underlined portion in Ahmed's quote above is a conjecture.

1036 Most of them only follow conjecture. While conjecture does not avail against the truth in anything. God is aware of what they do.

unknownuser

Peace all,

This is how hypocrites are defined by The God

3167 And to let those who are hypocrites know, that they were told "Come fight in the cause of God or defend," they said "If we knew how to fight we would have followed you." They are closer to disbelief then they are to belief. They say with their mouths what is not in their hearts, and God is aware of what they conceal.

This is how one will KNOW and SEE the hypocrites despite their deception

631 When the hypocrites come to you they Say "We bear witness that you are the messenger of God." And God knows that you are His messenger, and God bears witness that the hypocrites are liars.

The hypocrites as per 3167 are those that say with their mouths what is not in their hearts, and SUCH HYPOCRITES are then exposed or seen when they say as per 631, and when they order evil and deter from good, AFTER saying with their mouths what is not in their hearts. For example they will claim to be muslims, and then order evil, THUS TURNING ON THEIR HEELS.

Thus we can easily see that the only way to distinguish such hypocrites from those who follow the messenger is by a mental target/goal/qibla of institution of obedience of alharam, and not by a physical qibla. The hypocrites can easily face a physical direction along with others and then after that order evil, but it will be impossible for such hypocrites to mentally and in their heart institute obedience of alharam.

unknownuser

Hello Bro TG

I started the refute to this silly alegation regarding Al Masjid Al Haram, it is a 15 page document and I'm still working on it and will add the rest later today inshaallah

Al Masjid Al Haram Silly Alegation Refuted

Cheers

unknownuser

Peace all,

The following 2 facts alone refute the 15 page of garbage by Ahmed

It is IMPOSSIBLE to face a physical building WHEREVER one is as per 2144, 2149, 2150
It is IMPOSSIBLE to distinguish a hypocrite from a believer by facing a physical building as per 2143

unknownuser

LOL

how come someone reply to a 15 pages document before I finsihed posting it

rotfl rotfl rotfl elektro

whatever

thegod

ahmedbahgat wrote
I started the refute to this silly alegation regarding Al Masjid Al Haram, it is a 15 page document and I'm still working on it and will add the rest later today inshaallah

Al Masjid Al Haram Silly Alegation Refuted

i am looking forward to ur complete article bro! -)

by the way...have u seen how those brimming with kufr and nifaq simply come and make noise...i show their "proofs" to be full of kufr and nifaq....and what to they do? simply make noise hoping they will be able to somehow divert the attention away from their nifaq!

..the verse that talks about peepz who simply make noise...so that they can drown the word of god? are not such peepz disbelievers?

4126 Those who disbelieve say Heed not this Qur'an, and drown the hearing of it; haply ye may conquer.

then how well have tanveer's fathers been described in the quran...and how well has he inherited their mannerisms! -S

ah...the requital of the enemies of god....an evil requital for an evil folk! -S

salam bro! -)

warner

Peace

This is out of this topic.

Can someone give me the origin, compilation and periods of earliest Arabic lexicons/dictionaries. Even any links on this subject will help.

48 27
Yusuf Ali Truly did Allah fulfil the vision for His Apostle Ye shall enter the Sacred Mosque if Allah wills with minds secure heads shaved hair cut short and without fear. For He knew what ye knew not and He granted besides this a speedy victory.

Transliteration Laqad sadaqal la_hu rasu_lahur ruya_ bil haq la tadkhulan nal masjidal hara_ma in sa_ al la_hu a_minina muhal liqina ruu_sakum wa muqash sirina la_ takha_fu_n fa'alima ma_ lam talamu_ fajaala min du_ni za_lika fat hanqariba_

I do not understand this verse properly. What was the vision of the messenger ? Does it say the messenger will enter or the believers or both will enter the sacredc mosque? Is this verse before or after entering the sacred mosque ?

Lets kindly stop accusing each other Kafir, munafiq and hypocrite although clearly some are misguided and some here twist the truth and some chose evidence from each source only if it fits their adamant theory.Let us strive to find the truth without letting anything cloud and deceive our minds and intelligence.