Interesting difference: muslimeen & mumineen
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peace all,
After a gut feeling I had I checked the occurrences of "muslimeen" and "mumineen" to see if there were any differences in the way they were addressed and the context in which they occurred and there was a significant difference.
This is perhaps an obvious extrapolation from the following important article, but nice to see nonetheless.
http//www.free-minds.org/articles/gods_system/mumin.htmWhat I found was that the "muslimeen" are rarely addressed as an entity/group. It seems to primarily be used to describe a mindset. Furthermore, they are never? given any commandments as a group, unlike the "mumineen" in which there are many many examples of addressing them in such a manner. This would explain why the "mumineen" are mentioned many more times in 'al quran' than the "muslimeen", because the people upholding 'al quran' are the "mumineen" (see the above article) and that is why their battles, commandments, resistance, triumphs etc are linked to them, NOT the "muslimeen".
mumin (338 occurrences?) 28, 29, 213, 214, 214, 225, 226, 262, 262, 276, 282, 2103, 2104, 2126, 2136, 2137, 2137, 2153, 2165, 2172, 2177, 2178, 2183, 2208, 2212, 2213, 2214, 2218, 2249, 2253, 2254, 2257, 2264, 2267, 2277, 2278, 2282, 2285, 2285, 37, 316, 352, 353, 357, 368, 372, 384, 399, 3100, 3102, 3110, 3118, 3119, 3130, 3140, 3141, 3149, 3156, 3193, 3200, 419, 429, 439, 443, 451, 455, 457, 459, 460, 471, 476, 494, 4122, 4135, 4136, 4137, 4137, 4144, 4147, 4152, 4173, 4175, 51, 52, 56, 58, 59, 511, 512, 535, 541, 551, 553, 554, 555, 556, 557, 559, 561, 565, 569, 569, 582, 582, 583, 587, 590, 593, 593, 593, 594, 595, 5101, 5105, 5106, 5111, 648, 682, 6158, 732, 742, 775, 776, 786, 787, 788, 796, 7121, 7123, 7126, 7153, 7157, 812, 815, 820, 824, 827, 829, 841, 845, 872, 872, 874, 875, 918, 919, 920, 923, 928, 934, 938, 961, 988, 9113, 9119, 9123, 9124, 102, 104, 109, 1051, 1063, 1083, 1084, 1090, 1098, 1098, 1099, 10103, 1123, 1129, 1136, 1140, 1158, 1166, 1194, 1257, 1328, 1329, 1331, 1423, 1427, 1431, 1699, 16102, 1813, 1830, 1888, 18107, 1960, 1973, 1996, 2070, 2071, 2073, 2082, 216, 2214, 2217, 2223, 2238, 2250, 2254, 2256, 2277, 23109, 2419, 2421, 2427, 2447, 2455, 2458, 2462, 2570, 2647, 2649, 26227, 2753, 2853, 2867, 2880, 292, 297, 299, 2910, 2911, 2912, 2926, 2946, 2952, 2956, 2958, 3015, 3045, 318, 3219, 339, 3341, 3349, 3353, 3356, 3369, 3370, 344, 3437, 3452, 357, 3625, 3647, 37148, 3824, 3828, 3910, 407, 4025, 4030, 4035, 4038, 4051, 4058, 4084, 418, 4118, 4144, 4215, 4218, 4222, 4223, 4226, 4236, 4245, 4369, 4514, 4521, 4530, 4610, 4611, 472, 472, 473, 477, 4711, 4712, 4620, 4733, 4829, 491, 492, 496, 4911, 4912, 4914, 4915, 5221, 577, 5713, 5716, 5719, 5721, 5727, 5728, 589, 5810, 5811, 5811, 5812, 5910, 5918, 601, 6010, 6013, 612, 6110, 6114, 6114, 6114, 629, 633, 639, 6414, 6510, 6511, 666, 668, 6611, 6729, 722, 7213, 7431, 8329, 8334, 8435, 8511, 9017, 956, 987, 1033, 1064
muslim (42 occurrences?) 2128, 2128, 2132, 2133, 2136, 352, 364, 367, 380, 384, 3102, 5111, 6163, 7126, 1072, 1084, 1090, 1114, 12101, 152, 1689, 16102, 21108, 2278, 2731, 2738, 2742, 2781, 2791, 2853, 2946, 3053, 3335, 3335, 3912, 4133, 4369, 4615, 5136, 665, 6835, 7214
To disprove the point, can anyone find an example in which a commandment is directly given to the "muslimeen"?
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Good observation.
You will not find in the Quran the command "O' Those who have submitted" ( Ya ayyuhallazheena aslamu)
But you WILL find "O' Those who have believed/faithful"
(Ya ayyuhallazheena amanu).It is my belief that "iman" (faith/belief) is a step higher than "islam"( submission)
The following verse gives us a clue about this
{The Nomads said "We believe." Say "You have not believed; but you should Say 'We have submitted', for belief has not yet entered into your hearts." If you obey God and His messenger, He will not put any of your works to waste. God is Forgiver, Merciful.}
Peace...
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It is my belief that "iman" (faith/belief) is a step higher than "islam"( submission)
I agree.
What about those times 'muslimeen' are addressed as an entity? (assuming that you don't equal 'rarely' to 'never'.)
I never noted down the occurrences when they were addressed as such but I definitely noticed a difference in the way they were addressed and the context it was in. It seemed very general, not specific situations like the "mumineen". I never checked it thoroughly though, hence posting it here for others to scrutinise/reflect upon.
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Peace Wakas, all,
Thank you for your interesting observation.
I think when The God gives a command in general without saying "Ya ayyuhallazheena amanu", it is meant for "muslimeen" by default, as only the "muslimeen" out of the mankind will submit to it.
To disprove the point, can anyone find an example in which a commandment is directly given to the "muslimeen"?
Interesting thing is, according to 2277-78, The God calls/names the believers "muslimeen" directly !! and because of that all commandments for believers are also commandments to muslimeen directly !!
2277 O you who believe, kneel and prostrate and serve your Lord and do good that you may succeed.
2278 And strive in the cause of God its truly deserved striving. He is the One who has chosen you, and He has made no hardship for you in the system, the creed of your father Abraham; He is the One who named you 'those who have submitted'/"almuslimeen" from before as well as in this. So let the messenger be witness over you and you be witness over the people. So honor the Recital and contribute towards betterment and hold tight to God, He is your patron. What an excellent Patron, and what an excellent Supporter. -
Bismillah ir-Rahman ir-Raheem.
049.014 PICKTHAL The wandering Arabs say We believe. Say (unto them, O Muhammad) Ye believe not, but rather say "We submit," for the faith hath not yet entered into your hearts. Yet, if ye obey Allah and His messenger, He will not withhold from you aught of (the reward of) your deeds. Lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.
Best Regards / Salam-o-aleikum
Arif. -
Hello All
The Muslim is surely the highest level of a believer
i.e. every Muslim is a Mumin but not every Mumin is a Muslim, also 3335 referred to the Muslimeen as a separate entity than the Mumineen
Salam
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2277-78 is interesting (even though it doesn't use "mumineen" but I'm not sure how much I'd conclude from it.
"Allazeena aamanu" are same as al-mumineen.
FM 10/103 Then We will save Our messengers and allazeena aamanu/those who believe. It is thus binding upon Us that We save al-mumineen/the believers.
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peace Fahad,
"Al-muslimeen" is the name of "al-mumineen/those who believe" (227. So both terms should be referring to the same people.
"Allazeena aamanu" are same as al-mumineen.
FM 10/103 Then We will save Our messengers and allazeena aamanu/those who believe. It is thus binding upon Us that We save al-mumineen/the believers.
IF the above is true, how do you then resolve the contradiction of 4914? UNLESS you believe "muslimeen" is a higher level compared to "mumineen" as AB does?
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Hello all
Of course Muslimeen is not equal to Mumineen
Muslimeen is higher level than Mumineen
Thanks
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peace Fahad,
IF the above is true, how do you then resolve the contradiction of 4914? ...
I think verse 4914 is talking about "muslimeen", not "AL-muslimeen". Because people can be "muslimeen" even before being introduced to and believing in Al-Quran
28/53 And when it is recited to them, they say "We believe in it. Surely, it is the truth from our Lord. Surerly, we have been muslimeen from before it."
...UNLESS you believe "muslimeen" is a higher level compared to "mumineen" as AB does?
I don't understand how "muslimeen" can be a higher state of "al-mumineen", because 4914 seems to be saying the opposite.
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Hello
All4914 is saying that the Arabs claimed to have believed but the advce to them was to say they submit, and because we know that submitting is an action then after they believed it is not the end of it they shoud try and reach the higher level of submission, that is what 4914 says
also tens of verses clearly and logically proves that Submission is higher than belief
the belief is not in the Quran only as Fahd thinks, it is the believe in what they required to believe in at their time, at least they shuld have belived in Allah then they sumit to all His wills during their life time whever that is, like being struck with a horrible disease as it happened with prophet Ayub
I can show tens and tens of irrefutable verses that prove my claim, I will do it when I have time
Salam
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Hello
All4914 is saying that the Arabs claimed to have believed but the advce to them was to say they submit, and because we know that submitting is an action then after they believed it is not the end of it they shoud try and reach the higher level of submission, that is what 4914 says
Bro, the verse says "belief has not yet entered your hearts". So how can you say "after they believed"?
the belief is not in the Quran only as Fahd thinks, it is the believe in what they required to believe in at their time, at least they shuld have belived in Allah then they sumit to all His wills during their life time whever that is, like being struck with a horrible disease as it happened with prophet Ayub
Which verse are you talking about here?
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Peace all,
All mumineen are muslimeen per 2277-78, but all muslimeen are not mumineen per 4914.
Mumineen are at higher level than muslimeen per the following
2853 And if it is recited to them, they Say "We believe in it. It is the truth from our Lord. Indeed, we had submitted before it."
2854 To these We grant twice the reward for that they have been patient. And they counter evil with good, and from Our provisions to them, they give.The above verses clearly indicate that the believers will get twice the reward of the submitters.
3437 And it is not your money or your children that will bring you closer to Us, but only those who believe and do good work, they will receive double the reward for their works, and they will reside in the high dwellings in peace.
This verse confirms the double reward for those who believe AND do good works.
5728 O you who believe, you shall reverence God and believe in His messenger. He will then grant you double the reward from His mercy, and He will make for you a light by which you shall walk, and He will forgive you. And God is Forgiving, Merciful.
Double reward confirmed again for believers. This should leave no doubt that mumineen are at higher level than muslimeen.
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Bro, the verse says "belief has not yet entered your hearts". So how can you say "after they believed"?
Which verse are you talking about here?
I'm talking about the verse you are talking about
the words are not "Lam Yadkhul Al Iman Fi Qlubikum" which means Belief did not enter your hearts
the words are "Lamma Yadkhul Al Iman Fi Qlubikum", i.e. Lamma not Lam, and means "When the belief enters your heart", i.e. the right belief then they should know that they should submitt to Allah
check with any Arabic speaker that Lamma " ", is not for denial
do you get it?
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Bro, the verse says "belief has not yet entered your hearts". So how can you say "after they believed"?
Which verse are you talking about here?
the many verses that told us what we should belief in and what the previous people should have belived in
