Why I Have No Free Will
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Salam.
What about cause and effect?
If we have no free will and no free choice, why is it that i cause a certain effect in people when i go out?Salam Alen,
Is this what happened with initial domino being tripped by the big bang?
http//video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7699005803996302162
Are also our thoughts predestined and result of the cosmic domino chain reaction?
I believe we set up our own dominos continuously every moment under physical limits while God without time-space constraints is witness to our entire journey which is prerecorded same as we observe in that short video.
Peace
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Peace bro "Alen",
Salam.
What about cause and effect?
If we have no free will and no free choice, why is it that i cause a certain effect in people when i go out?JK- You cause certain effects on certain ppl at certain times because at that time the particles in your brain responsible for your neural activity are in a certain position, again as a cause of surrounding environment as well as internal body action and reaction, and you then pass this on to other people in the form of human speech or emotion.
I go out.
I enter a store.
Sales person asks"How can i help you?"
I think"Would she said this sentence, if i never entered the store?"
My question"Who or what caused her question?"
Further more"Would she even say this sentence, if i never entered the store?"There is no spoon .... if you close your eyes.
Peace.
JK- The same as above. She saw you and had certain thoughts accumulated in her mind and seeing you plus those was the cause of her making her first statement which is also common with shopkeepers. GOD Bless!
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Peace "nun de plume",
Salam Alen,
Is this what happened with initial domino being tripped by the big bang?
http//video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7699005803996302162
Are also our thoughts predestined and result of the cosmic domino chain reaction?
I believe we set up our own dominos continuously every moment under physical limits while God without time-space constraints is witness to our entire journey which is prerecorded same as we observe in that short video.
Peace
JK- There is no intitial particle so the domino example aint right. All has to come out of an infinite stream of particles which according to the big bang came from an infinitesimally small pt in theory, which means if wed rewind the time wed see the universe becoming smaller and smaller forever. Ive a theory about the universe being there as a result of a compression of energy out of an ultiverse(which is infinite in size) though because it makes more sense than an ever decreasing point for me especially when a possibility of the existence multiple universes is to be considered. Buit whatever the case i dont see any possibility of there being a first particle. What moved tht particle then? GOD Bless!
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Peace Jonny,
Oh ok i get wht you mean, the love issue. Well if you have a better explanation of how love is created please go ahead.
I don't have an explanation. There is no explanation. That's the point.
Also note tht animals also experience love(you can see tht in dogs) but once their brain is damaged by rabis all the love is gone. Doesnt take too much brain power to notice theres a connection between the operation of healthy neurons and love.
I believe you're confusing loyalty with love. Dogs are pack animals and live in a structured hierarchy. The alpha male is spoiled by the lower dogs as a sign of submissiveness. But make no mistake - if the alpha male shows weakness, the lower dogs will challenge him. But as a whole, the strength of dogs is in the pack. Without it, they wouldn't survive.
Whatever is not scientific is not necesarily true or cannot be said to be true so to talk abt such would be useless and harmful in the long run.
Just like love(unscientific), not all things can be measured by science. It doesn't mean it's not true or harmful. I'm not sure where you're getting this from.
I never made tht claim. I clearly admitted tht we dont yet know everything about quantum particles but to assume theres some sort of magic going on there is as ridiculous as it can get. Ppl once thought the same of the brain and the mind but now we know better.
Ridiculous to you because you're limited to science. You have "faith" that science will provide all the answers, as opposed to "faith" in the fact we'll never get all the answers per the qur'an. If science was as all-encompassing as your devotion suggests, then you have yourself a contradiction with the qur'an. Call it magic, or call it God's way of humbling us, some things we'll never grasp.
Imagination is the combination of various observations which accumulate in the neural network. Try to imagine a color which you havnt experienced before, a new color. It wld hardly be possible and even if it would it would be a unique mixture of available visual info in the brain.!
This can't be proven Jonny. I've imagined flying before and I have no reference to flight.
Now i never said using imagination is wrong. But we must filter out the rational and irrational imaginations by using science and the scientific method later on i.e. once we think something up which we think maybe rational we still need to scientifically verify it. Thts is infact the 1st stage in science, the formation of a hypothesis coming more or less through random thoughts or in rare cases a rationally processed combination of pre existing infos. Just throwing up imagination as fact wont do. Thts wht i meant. GOD Bless
Thanks for clarifying. I agree. However, some things we imagine and/or experience with no scientific explanation.
Peace,
Tay -
Regarding "scientific explanations", ponder this fact
When Einstein wrote his general theory of relativity in 1915, he found a new way to describe gravity. It was not a force, as Sir Isaac Newton had supposed, but a consequence of the distortion of space and time, conceived together in his theory as 'space-time'. Any object distorts the fabric of space-time and the bigger it is, the greater the effect.
Just as a bowling ball placed on a trampoline stretches the fabric and causes it to sag, so planets and stars warp space-time - a phenomenon known as the 'geodetic effect'. A marble moving along the trampoline will be drawn inexorably towards the ball.
Thus the planets orbiting the Sun are not being pulled by the Sun; they are following the curved space-time deformation caused by the Sun. The reason the planets never fall into the Sun is because of the speed at which they are travelling.
According to the theory, matter and energy distort space-time, curving it around themselves. 'Frame dragging' theoretically occurs when the rotation of a large body 'twists' nearby space and time.
Ninety years after he expounded his famous theory, a $700m Nasa probe has proved that the universe behaves, just as he said, 'to a precision of better than 1 per cent', the assertion Einstein made 90 years ago - that an object such as the Earth does indeed distort the fabric of space and time. Now the race is on to show that the other half of relativity also works. Einstein was right space and time do bend.
While TAY is quite correct in his postulated theory that intangible things (like love) can not be measured by science, it is also indeed true that in the realm of 'legitimate science', one can test God's Divine TANGIBLE Laws of Nature and confirm their brilliance!
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Peace "tay",
Peace Jonny,
I don't have an explanation. There is no explanation. That's the point.
JK- Oh yes there is for me and many other neurologists the simplest and most rational explanation is tht it is due to certain complex neural activities taking place in particular regions of the brain.
I believe you're confusing loyalty with love. Dogs are pack animals and live in a structured hierarchy. The alpha male is spoiled by the lower dogs as a sign of submissiveness. But make no mistake - if the alpha male shows weakness, the lower dogs will challenge him. But as a whole, the strength of dogs is in the pack. Without it, they wouldn't survive.
JK- Alright consider a human getting rabbis and/or severe damage of neural activity. He/she wont love any human no more, i can rest assure you tht. It has happned tht a girl in an accident who suffered severe brain damage was even unable to distinguish right from wrong, much less know to love. Again i advise you please refer to some neural clinic or reserch center. They have loads of such cases
Just like love(unscientific), not all things can be measured by science. It doesn't mean it's not true or harmful. I'm not sure where you're getting this from.
JK- Love has evolved into the neural system of the human through the constants fixed by GOD just like everything else.
Ridiculous to you because you're limited to science. You have "faith" that science will provide all the answers, as opposed to "faith" in the fact we'll never get all the answers per the qur'an. If science was as all-encompassing as your devotion suggests, then you have yourself a contradiction with the qur'an. Call it magic, or call it God's way of humbling us, some things we'll never grasp.
JK- Yes science will get EVER INCREASING answers but since therell alweays be infinite qs left well never have all the answers at hand. And yes we cant grasp everything just now but just because we cant just to say tht its magic and/or tht wed never understand it is nonsensible.
This can't be proven Jonny. I've imagined flying before and I have no reference to flight.
JK- Wht do u mean? Have no never observed birds flying in nature and very closely watched them over time the info of which got fixed in you subconsiousness? Or perhaps even flew a plain in a simulator game or observed flight on TV or tried to jump up and down from some height thus experiencing the gravitational forcess too? From all this, ones neural network can derive enough info to imagine flight.
Thanks for clarifying. I agree. However, some things we imagine and/or experience with no scientific explanation.
Peace,
TayJK- I can tell you uptil this very day all tht i remember erver imagining or dreaming was always a combination of something which ive observed somewhere at sometime in life. Ofcourse i could betray myself and state otherwise but i wont. I wld be delusional. GOD Bless!
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Peace Jonny,
Oh yes there is for me and many other neurologists the simplest and most rational explanation is tht it is due to certain complex neural activities taking place in particular regions of the brain.
What processes in what regions??
Using scientific jargon does not equal scientific evidence.
Jonny, please, enough. Let's move on, shall we?He/she wont love any human no more, i can rest assure you tht.
No, you can speculate that.
This is really going nowhere bro.
I agree to disagree.Peace,
Tay -
Peace bro "tay",
Peace Jonny,
What processes in what regions??
Using scientific jargon does not equal scientific evidence.
Jonny, please, enough. Let's move on, shall we?
No, you can speculate that.JK- The exact regions are not yet known as far as my knowledge is concerned. But you may consult a neuroscience department for more info. What we do know is tht people can stop feeling love when certain regions of the brain are damaged. If you dont believe me refer to some neuroresearch departmernt or www.randi.org. Im sure theyll provide you with lots of relevant info on the subject. Love too is n emotion and there is ABSOLUTELY ZERO EVIDENCE to speculate that it is some sort of supernatural emotion. Moreover you said what dogs show is loyalty only. Well ask many a dog owners and they will clearly tell you that their dog loves them or shows them a lot of love and affection so i dont know how you are defining love here. Also if a human being is effected with rabis and not treated within the necessary time range, he/she wont show any signs of love either. GOD Bless!
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Peace bro "tay",
Theres a whole section on wiki termed "Love(scientific views)"
http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Love_%28scientific_views%29
Heres just an excerpt from wiki about how love comes into beingBiological models of sex tend to view love as a mammalian drive, much like hunger or thirst. Helen Fisher, a leading expert in the topic of love, divides the experience of love into three partly-overlapping stages lust, attraction, and attachment. Lust exposes people to others, romantic attraction encourages people to focus their energy on mating, and attachment involves tolerating the spouse long enough to rear a child into infancy.
Lust is the initial passionate sexual desire that promotes mating, and involves the increased release of chemicals such as testosterone and estrogen. These effects rarely last more than a few weeks or months. Attraction is the more individualized and romantic desire for a specific candidate for mating, which develops out of lust as commitment to an individual mate forms. Recent studies in neuroscience have indicated that as people fall in love, the brain consistently releases a certain set of chemicals, including dopamine, norepinephrine, and serotonin, which act similar to amphetamines, stimulating the brain's pleasure center and leading to side-effects such as an increased heart rate, loss of appetite and sleep, and an intense feeling of excitement. Research has indicated that this stage generally lasts from one and a half to three years.
Since the lust and attraction stages are both considered temporary, a third stage is needed to account for long-term relationships. Attachment is the bonding which promotes relationships that last for many years, and even decades. Attachment is generally based on commitments such as marriage and children, or on mutual friendship based on things like shared interests. It has been linked to higher levels of the chemicals oxytocin and vasopressin than short-term relationships have.
In 2005, Italian scientists at Pavia University found that a protein molecule known as the nerve growth factor (NGF) has high levels when people first fall in love, but these levels return to as they were after one year. Specifically, four neurotrophin levels, i.e. NGF, BDNF, NT-3, and NT-4, of 58 subjects who had recently fallen in love were compared with levels in a control group who were either single or already engaged in a long-term relationship. The results showed that NGF levels were significantly higher in the subjects in love than as compared to either of the control groups.
Taken from http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Love#Biology_of_love
You may also wish to read http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interpersonal_chemistry#Neurochemistry
GOD Bless! -
Peace bro "tay",
Peace Jonny,
Stress causes an elevated heart rate. It's not the other way around. Think about this.
Peace,
TayJK- If your by any chance trying to infer tht tht indicates some sort of occult activity/energy then i have to disappoint you. Stress is setup in the brain and through various impulses the heart rate is increaswed so more blood and hence more oxygen and other required chemicals are supplied to the brain in order for neural activities to calm down again. Stress is also not just a phenomenom unique to humans as itoccurs in animals as well. GOD Bless!
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Peace Jonny,
You missed the point entirely. But that's ok. The world needs good scientists and, God willing, I hope you keep up the good work.
Peace,
TayJK- I forgot to mention why it's not necessarily the other wy around. Well an increased heart rate can be due to many factors, not just stress so obviously if the heart case increases it doesnt neessarily cause stress. It can be excitement too. If your implying feelings of love and emotion then thts perfectly fine since i do agree that the heart plays an important role in these. Ive read an article where it has been shown tht the heart communicates with the brain in a special way as compared to all other organs and tht it also posesses a small neural nerve network of its own. This however still has nothing to do with the occult or the paranormal and tht wht im against. GOD Bless!
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Peace Jonny,
Well an increased heart rate can be due to many factors, not just stress so obviously if the heart case increases it doesnt neessarily cause stress. It can be excitement too.
Exactamundo! But I'm afraid you're not making the correlation(or not looking for it) and I can no longer spell it out because time and again we've proved only that I say "to-may-to" and you say "to-mah-to".
Peace,
Tay -
Peace Jonny,
Exactamundo! But I'm afraid you're not making the correlation(or not looking for it) and I can no longer spell it out because time and again we've proved only that I say "to-may-to" and you say "to-mah-to".
Peace,
TayJK- ??? . Im just against supernaturalism, paranormal and thr sort of pseudoscience. If you agree that love aint supernatural or some occult mystical stuff out of this world then theres no problem. GOD Bless!
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Peace Jonny,
Have you ever been in love?
JK- You mean with a woman/girl? If thts wht you mean then yes, ive been many times. Sometimes by just looking at her, other times by watching the PATTERN of her behaviour and many other things. Ive never yet had any sexual relationships with any though as yet. The love mostly faded away before it could come that far so im still searching and GW may find a good partner someday.
If you mean love towards siblings, parents, or even animals than i can once again assure you that i still expereince those feelings. Reg parents they are the most permanent since they brought me up and only in a dream where most of my neural activity is blocked could i perhaps lose the feeling of love towards them which i would immediately retain afetr awakening. Reg farther reletives its not all tht stable and love can fade away, if not titally, to a great extent. The love for animals in me is also very strong IMO but it may fade if i get to have bad experience with a certain species.
So from all the above i can surely say tht love is a wonderful feeling and emotion which has been creted by GOD through the process of evolution, resulting in us having a brain whose complex neural activities enable such feelings but i dont see anything magical or supernatural about it. GOD Bless! -
Peace Jonny,
You mean with a woman/girl? If thts wht you mean then yes, ive been many times. Sometimes by just looking at her, other times by watching the PATTERN of her behaviour and many other things.
No offense, bro, but I doubt you've experienced being in love if you can characterize it by "watching the pattern of her behavior". That sounds more like lust. Then again, maybe I'm wrong and we experience different flavors of love. At any rate, my own experience with it is pretty far from what you've described here and in your arguments. You'll just have to take my word for it. God knows best.
Peace,
Tay