Why I Have No Free Will
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peace JK,
JK- I did NOT say that the ONLY CAUSE of our actions/beleifs is experience. Nowhere did i claim that. BUT i claim that all our actions/beliefs ARE CAUSED DUE TO SOME OTHER NATURAL, NON PARANORMAL FACTORS. That is my point. If despite this one can still label our decisions to result out of "free will" just because we cannot precisely determine the outcome of someones actions, fine.
Most of the time, the input is what what we observe or what happens to us...that's experience. There's a perfectly natural reason why you can't predict what someone will do, and that is free will.
Please tell me if this is what you're saying
People learn from their experiences, so everything they do is based on what happened to them before. If I poke my finger into a socket and get shocked, I will not do it again. So actions are directly based on past experiences.
But people act irrationally. They sometimes choose to ignore experience. That, you say, is the result of some medical condition. If I poke my finger into the socket again, I'm retarded.
Have I understood you correctly?If so, let me explain why I think we base our actions on our experiences...it has to do with beliefs. We have to see to believe, so when we see something happening, we believe it, and our beliefs determine our actions.
But the thing is, we do not have to experience something to believe it, it can be put directly into our heads through things like subliminal messages.
So we can choose what we put into our heads. We can choose which thoughts to focus on and which to ignore. And we are not bound by anything.Most people have no free will, but they can. That's the whole concept of peace (salam), I believe.
We have the ability to pick and choose our thoughts. We have the ability to change our beliefs, our conditioning. We have the ability to completely ignore the past and do what we want to do.
I don't know of any way to prove this to you. -
To feed the debate?
Libet found that the unconscious brain activity leading up to the conscious decision by the subject to flick his or her wrist began approximately half a second before the subject consciously felt that she had decided to move. Libet's findings suggest that decisions made by a subject are first being made on a subconscious level and only afterward being translated into a "conscious decision", and that the subject's belief that it occurred at the behest of her will was only due to her retrospective perspective on the event.
In generative philosophy of cognitive sciences and evolutionary psychology, free will is assumed not to exist. However, an illusion of free will is created, within this theoretical context, due to the generation of infinite or computationally complex behaviour from the interaction of a finite set of rules and parameters. Thus, the unpredictability of the emerging behaviour from deterministic processes leads to a perception of free will, even though free will as an ontological entity is assumed not to exist.
http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_will
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Salam.
Why i do have a free will?
Here is why?The future doesn't exist untill we get there and therefore that is the evidence that we have free will. Because if we didn't have free will, we could have predicted all the things we planned, plan or will plan.
I suggest you see this movie Langoliers. It will take 3 hours to see it, but i strongly recommend it.
Good luck.
Peace.
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Peace JM,
Yes, I'd agree, in particular, with this part of the entry
"Unlike perceptions, which are particular images of individual objects, concepts cannot be visualized. Because they are not, themselves, individual perceptions, concepts are discursive and result from reason. They can only be thought about, or designated, by means of a name. Words are not concepts. Words are signs for concepts."
Peace,
TayPeace Tay
Here is the point I would like to draw people?s attention to.
In the field of natural sciences, such concepts as ?soul?, ?free-will?, ?right and wrong? have no place.
However, AQ is mainly about all that. The goal of AQ is not to teach us that the earth is a egg-shaped, or things like that. Its goal is to teach us how to live a righteous life.I think Maurice Bucaille has misled many among us. Science should not be regarded as a second god. Science is about material things only.
See also http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=14952.msg140227#msg140227
Peace
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Peace "lobster",
Just saw this post of yours unanswered so thought id replypeace JK,
Most of the time, the input is what what we observe or what happens to us...that's experience. There's a perfectly natural reason why you can't predict what someone will do, and that is free will.JK- Ok so your defining free will as something which comes out of an indivduals conscious neural processing which ultimately does depend on causal factors BUT others cannot determine the outcome? Is that right?
Please tell me if this is what you're saying
People learn from their experiences, so everything they do is based on what happened to them before. If I poke my finger into a socket and get shocked, I will not do it again. So actions are directly based on past experiences.JK- Yes people do learn from past experiences but it one single experience may not be always enough.
But people act irrationally. They sometimes choose to ignore experience. That, you say, is the result of some medical condition. If I poke my finger into the socket again, I'm retarded.
Have I understood you correctly?JK- No not necessarily as ive said some peoples brains are more sensitive others less, all through natural assembly processes depending on environement, genetic traits acquired, etc. Some people may not learn through a single experience but need more. Yet its all causally determined ultimately. Theres no "magical free will" as some would like it.
If so, let me explain why I think we base our actions on our experiences...it has to do with beliefs. We have to see to believe, so when we see something happening, we believe it, and our beliefs determine our actions.
JK- I agree the visual stimulance of our brain is indeed one which can be very convincing but at the saame time also very deceptive which is why so many people beleive theyve seen ghosts, etc whilst it were mere hallucinations.
But the thing is, we do not have to experience something to believe it, it can be put directly into our heads through things like subliminal messages.
So we can choose what we put into our heads. We can choose which thoughts to focus on and which to ignore. And we are not bound by anything.JK- Remeber wer defining that "WE" itself here. What is "we"? What is the "I". I say that it is the conscious formation due to certrain complex neural interactions in the brain and all neurologists would agree with that. So when we say that "we choose" it technically means that the neural network which is responsible for activating the consciousness "chooses". But then again it does not magically choose but the choice depends on causal factors once again. It is very important to realize this.
Most people have no free will, but they can. That's the whole concept of peace (salam), I believe.
We have the ability to pick and choose our thoughts. We have the ability to change our beliefs, our conditioning. We have the ability to completely ignore the past and do what we want to do.
I don't know of any way to prove this to you.JK- Yes we do but ultimately it all depends on causal, not magical, factors. Consider an altered state of consciousness like a NON LUCID dream for example. You act and choose very differently than you would in the wake state or perhaps lucid dream. Once you wake up you wonder why you didnt act differently. Again causal determination. Ultimately it whatvere we choose to do or not be it changing religious beleifs, becoming righteous, etc depends on the pathway taken by the electrochemicals in the neurons which were "kicked" by some particles before them, which were again by some before them, going towards the start of the universe and ultinately infinite regression. There is also no known causal but alien intervention into the neural network till now. GOD Bless!
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Peace "JM",
Peace Tay
Here is the point I would like to draw people?s attention to.
In the field of natural sciences, such concepts as ?soul?, ?free-will?, ?right and wrong? have no place.
JK- Oh yes they can. "right and wrong" in science could be rationally and most proably is defined in the follwoing way. Whatever causes progress for our species and does not hence undermine or suppress the accomplishemts deliberately of one indvidual by any other(s) can be termed as "right". Wrong is the opposite of that. "Soul" can be the consciousness formed through certain complex neuro activity in the brain and "free will" the result of any unpredictable, yet causal, activity perofomed by any individual. GOD Bless!