Why I Have No Free Will
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Peace bro "lobster",
peace Jonny,
Love is not "initiated" by attraction. I don't have to be physically attracted to someone to love them.JK- Oh man. Who is talking about attraction of mere physical appearance. Theres a hell lot more attractions than just tht. You can be attratced to words, ideas, thoughts, gestures, etc etc. Anyone or more of these go into your brain, are processed by your neural network and if they match with some prexisting info which matches it in a way to cause a chain reaction which leads to further and further reactions you might BUT NOT NECESSARILY suddenly experience immense pleasure which one then terms as love. GOD Bless!
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Peace bro "Arnold",
If you know of any neural research center which has provided some sort of evidence indicating that the quatum field intervenes/interacts with the neural network/individual neurons in any way i would be very pleased to know.
GOD Bless!BUY the books of Ervin Laszlo, you cannot have a better introduction.
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Peace bro "arnold",
BUY the books of Ervin Laszlo, you cannot have a better introduction.
JK- To be honest with you i dont like the idea of reading entire books or worse yet buying them to read them. I prefer the evidence at hand and that is all i need to change my view. Did ou know i did not come to beleive in evolution because i read 1000 of books on the subjects as many inc. you would probably like me to have done, BUT i checked for the evidence on the net and it convinced me. All you need is do some independent research from indepent and non biased lines of inquiry to get a good probability of the truth. Hence i ask you once more, plz state the neural research department which carried out the experiment to indicate theres quantum interaction/intervention with the human body's cells and particularly neurons in the brain. GOD Bless!
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Peace JM,
Nice article.
I agree with the author's description of how the brain works - that is, in the past. It is constantly analyzing information/stimuli and comparing it to past experiences and data. This is the absolute limitation of the brain. Where I disagree is in the author's limiting of people to the brain. He's ignoring the essence of man - the soul. The soul is the observer of the brain's activity and, if allowed, the source of free-will. The soul can command the brain to "stop", or "shut up". In that moment, the brain is rendered impotent.
So, at the most superficial level, it may appear to us that we are what we've experienced. Thus, what one may find funny or hurtful, whether one is outgoing or shy, aggressive or passive, content or depressed, is in part based on the long chain of experiences and his/her reactions to those experiences, and the eventual outcomes of those experiences. The brain catalogues all that information and in milliseconds, pushes the person to act one way or another based on history.
But the soul is the part of us that looks at this entire process and decides whether it is "right" or "wrong". And that's not based on history or experience, but the inner connection to God. When we know what we're doing is wrong, yet continue to do it, we become out of balance and our state decays. When we know something's wrong and we take corrective action, it is empowering - and momentum-building. Because this is new ground, a new frontier, based not on the past but on the now - the new information that we've allowed into our sphere.
Thus, I feel it is vitally important to recognize our dual-nature. We do this easily by simply observing our thoughts and not fooling ourselves into believing that we are our thoughts. The simple fact that we can change years of programmed behaviour is a testament to the infinite power that we hold at our fingertips, not to mention, proof-positive of our free-will.
Peace,
TayPeace tay,
Can you provide a biological proof for the existence of the soul ? -
Peace JM,
I believe the soul is part of the "unseen" and thus transcends anything biological that we can call proof.
Peace,
TayPeace Tay,
If I say that the "soul" is like "good" and "bad", or "free-will", a concept... do you agree ? -
Peace JM,
Yes, I'd agree, in particular, with this part of the entry
"Unlike perceptions, which are particular images of individual objects, concepts cannot be visualized. Because they are not, themselves, individual perceptions, concepts are discursive and result from reason. They can only be thought about, or designated, by means of a name. Words are not concepts. Words are signs for concepts."
Peace,
Tay -
Peace "tay" and all,
I think you need to define more what you mean by "free will". If you mean it means that other people are not able to determine how someone might act in response to something, then obviously this is wrong since many experiments have shown that people tend to react in certain ways under certain stimulations. Here an example from http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_will#NeuroscienceRelated experiments showed that neurostimulation could affect which hands people move, even though the experience of free will was intact. Ammon and Gandevia found that it was possible to influence which hand people move by stimulating frontal regions that are involved in movement planning using transcranial magnetic stimulation in either the left or right hemisphere of the brain. Right-handed people would normally choose to move their right hand 60% of the time, but when the right hemisphere was stimulated they would instead choose their left hand 80% of the time (recall that the right hemisphere of the brain is responsible for the left side of the body, and the left hemisphere for the right). Despite the external influence on their decision-making, the subjects continued to report that they believed their choice of hand had been made freely. In a follow-up experiment, Alvaro Pascual-Leone and colleagues found similar results, but also noted that the transcranial magnetic stimulation must occur within 200 milliseconds, consistent with the time-course derived from the Libet experiments.
But lets say "freewill" means you cannot determine exactly what one would do at any particular time. Ok so then the water cycle must also have freewill since we cant determine, not even close, where and when rain would fall in a year even if we restricted the locations to a country like England.
Secondly what is your definition of "soul"? If you say the "soul" is something which allows humans to be self aware and rationalize things in a much more eficient way than other animals, then id agree and this type of "soul" can be formed through neuro processes. If you say that the "soul" is part of the undifferentiated Quantum Field, still in its quantum form, each interacting with the correspoding human brain's neurons, then 1) id like to see evidence for this claim 2) quantum particles are part of the natural world too. GOD Bless! -
Peace "lobster",
JK, you said "people tend to." Just because people tend to, doesn't mean everyone does exactly that. From my experience, people tend to believe what they want to believe, that doesn't mean it's impossible for someone to do otherwise.
peace,JK- Well as i said we cannot determine ANYTHING with absolute certainty, even something like rainfall, which by far is less complex than reactins going on in the human brain. If you have programs like the weather channel or others you might have noticed that even whilst indicating rainfall for the next 10 days, it always states in terms of probabilities, 10%, 60%, 90% chances of precipitation BUT NEVER 100%. 0% is possible if no clouds at all are in sight but 100% is not possible because you can not even say with 99% accuracy till this day whether a cloud tomorrow is gonna give off rain or not. This is why we talk about "tendencies" and yes people may still act differently just as animals, the wter cycle, tornadoes could "act" differently than predicted in many cases. Do they all have free will? Thts why i asked for a definition. Regarding peoples beleifs its the same. There are certain reasons why people believe in certain things and there are also reasons why certain people convert from one belief to another and depending on the circumstances one can predict with a certain probablity which beelif a certain person is gonna choose as well but never with 100% accuracy or even 90% for that matter. GOD Bless!
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Peace "lobster",
JK- Well as i said we cannot determine ANYTHING with absolute certainty, even something like rainfall, which by far is less complex than reactins going on in the human brain. If you have programs like the weather channel or others you might have noticed that even whilst indicating rainfall for the next 10 days, it always states in terms of probabilities, 10%, 60%, 90% chances of precipitation BUT NEVER 100%. 0% is possible if no clouds at all are in sight but 100% is not possible because you can not even say with 99% accuracy till this day whether a cloud tomorrow is gonna give off rain or not. This is why we talk about "tendencies" and yes people may still act differently just as animals, the wter cycle, tornadoes could "act" differently than predicted in many cases. Do they all have free will? Thts why i asked for a definition. Regarding peoples beleifs its the same. There are certain reasons why people believe in certain things and there are also reasons why certain people convert from one belief to another and depending on the circumstances one can predict with a certain probablity which beelif a certain person is gonna choose as well but never with 100% accuracy or even 90% for that matter. GOD Bless!
peace JK,
We can't know exactly if and when rain will fall because we don't know all the factors...our technology isn't advanced enough, and I doubt if our knowledge is complete.
And that's my point, your knowledge about the human mind is not complete. That's one thing.
The second thing is that you know that in at least some cases, people will not act the way you expect them to act, that means there could very well be a free will. You don't KNOW yet, Jonny.You are saying that the events in our life determine what we think, and that's why we don't have a free will.
But we can choose what we think about regardless of what happens to us.If you really believe we don't have free will, then you must also accept that the quran is useless, that male homosexuals have no choice.
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Peace "lobster",
peace JK,
We can't know exactly if and when rain will fall because we don't know all the factors...our technology isn't advanced enough, and I doubt if our knowledge is complete.
And that's my point, your knowledge about the human mind is not complete. That's one thing.JK- So is that what you define as "free will" because we cannot know for sure where our mind goes?
The second thing is that you know that in at least some cases, people will not act the way you expect them to act, that means there could very well be a free will. You don't KNOW yet, Jonny.
JK- Ok and the same goes for the water cycle. Sometimes it does exactly the oppsoite of what forecasters predicted. Does this mean it has "free will". If thts your definition of free will then i agree we have it too.
You are saying that the events in our life determine what we think, and that's why we don't have a free will.
But we can choose what we think about regardless of what happens to us.JK- We, the conscious min, there to a result ofneural activity also, choose a certain way because of numerous envirnmentasl factors all of which cannot be known with exact precision just like with many other things like the water cycle.
If you really believe we don't have free will, then you must also accept that the quran is useless, that male homosexuals have no choice.
JK- Please define free will for me. Thts all im asking for now. 2ndly even murderers dont have a "free will" according to neuroscientists as defined by religion. Does that mean they should not be punished? Ofcourse not since thevery humans who in return punish the person are also causally responding to the murderer. A punishment is said to be apt if the person CONSCIOUSLY, be it the result of complex neural processes or otherwise, decides to carry out a deed which he/she knows would infringe uon the rights of another. Many atheists dont beleive in free will wither but they wont just allow the terrorists, murderers, rapists, etc to get away with what they do. I hope you got my point. GOD Bless!
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peace JK,
I defined it for you. What happens to us does not necessarily determine what we believe and what we do.
If all my life I've been taught that revenge is the right thing to do, and someone punches me in the face, you expect me to punch that guy back. But I don't. That's free will.
Even if all the factors, including the "unknowns" are pointing in the other direction.
We always have that choice.
We have an emotional response to everything that happens, and our emotions and beliefs and prejudices push us in certain directions, but we can ignore them, and CHOOSE.
That's the whole point of Peace in the quran. -
Peace "lobster",
peace JK,
I defined it for you. What happens to us does not necessarily determine what we believe and what we do.
If all my life I've been taught that revenge is the right thing to do, and someone punches me in the face, you expect me to punch that guy back. But I don't. That's free will.JK- There are numerous other factors to be considered also. Whilst you may have been taught this all your life, youve picked up other data from the environemtn which lead you to the rational conclusion that it was better not to take revenge on a certain occassion. This deviation from the "norm" can be seen in higher animals too. Suddenly a monkey in the zoo doesnt want to act a certain way anymore although it has been taught to it all its life. So if you wanna define "free will" by that, fine but its all explanable and it most certainly aint magic.
Even if all the factors, including the "unknowns" are pointing in the other direction.
We always have that choice.
We have an emotional response to everything that happens, and our emotions and beliefs and prejudices push us in certain directions, but we can ignore them, and CHOOSE.
That's the whole point of Peace in the quran.JK- Are you saying "free will" must violate causality? Please define the entity "we" that chooses, what hypothetical substance its made up off and if it exists wont it be under the causal influence of the particles which make it? GOD Bless!
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peace
Yes, there are numerous factors, that's why I said "even if all other variables point in the other direction."
Causality is the relationship of cause and effect.
We do certain things and we believe certain things because that's what we are conditioned to do.
We can make ourselves do things without some outside factor forcing us to do it. That does not violate causality.
If I understand you correctly, you think that the ONLY cause of our actions/beliefs is experience, I believe it isn't the only cause.
There is no magic involved."We" is us, our soul. I can't explain it any further, really.
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Peace "lobster",
peace
Yes, there are numerous factors, that's why I said "even if all other variables point in the other direction."
Causality is the relationship of cause and effect.
We do certain things and we believe certain things because that's what we are conditioned to do.
We can make ourselves do things without some outside factor forcing us to do it. That does not violate causality.JK- Please explain how this would not violate causality. What then was the cause of our acting in a particular way? You might say "free will". Well then what caused that free will? Youll need to define what substance that "free will" is made of and how exactly it directs the actions our bodies carry out.
If I understand you correctly, you think that the ONLY cause of our actions/beliefs is experience, I believe it isn't the only cause.
There is no magic involved.JK- I did NOT say that the ONLY CAUSE of our actions/beleifs is experience. Nowhere did i claim that. BUT i claim that all our actions/beliefs ARE CAUSED DUE TO SOME OTHER NATURAL, NON PARANORMAL FACTORS. That is my point. If despite this one can still label our decisions to result out of "free will" just because we cannot precisely determine the outcome of someones actions, fine.
"We" is us, our soul. I can't explain it any further, really.
JK- What is "our soul"? I mean it would be silly putting up a concept which is undefined. You must be having something in mind when you talk about "our soul". Is our soul made up of some hypothetical material which we dont know yet or is it part of the Qunatum Field as stated by me earlier and if it is wheres the evidence? GOD Bless!