Muhammad Wrote the quran
-
I am having a discussion with my freind who does not believe that Quran was written by Muhammad with his own hands.I already quoted him sura 25 verse 5 but still he insist on more evidence.Can any one help me find more verses from the quran or a suitable article which could help me in convincing my freind.
-
From what I remember, (From History Channel) is that he did not write it down. It was about a couple of years after his death were his followers gathered people who memerized entire verses and made the quran.
-
Peace Munshi,
Please see the article at the following link
http//free-minds.org/books/wadud_05.htm
-
I am having a discussion with my freind who does not believe that Quran was written by Muhammad with his own hands.I already quoted him sura 25 verse 5 but still he insist on more evidence.Can any one help me find more verses from the quran or a suitable article which could help me in convincing my freind.
Salam
Your friend is 100% right, 255 can not be taken conclusivley as Mohamad wrote the Quran, the verse does not say that, the verse only say, this is what the Kafiroon clamied, it was a propaganda on thier side, in fact, in the verse just before it, they said something else, i.e. they were just saying BS
now you want me to take the BS said by the kafiroon in 254 and 255 as conclusive evidence that Mohammad wrote the Quran?
I say, impossible to take it as such and it has to stay as this, we don't know if Mohammad wrote the Quran or not
Salam
-
Peace Munshi,
I hate to say it, but I agree with your friend on this one, I cannot take 254-5 as proof that he wrote quran. Even though I do believe that he did. Here's what I would use..
Chapter 73
- O you who are covered with your garments.
- Stand the night except for a little.
- Half of it, or a little less than that.
- Or a little more, and arrange the Qur?an in its arrangement.
- We will place upon you a saying which is heavy.
- The time of the night is more effective and better for study.
Atleast with this one, you can use it against the illiterate argument. )
Here's another one;
- You were not reciting any scripture before this, nor were you writing one down by your hand. In that case, the doubters would have had reason.
Also, do check out the article link that Tanveer posted.
peace
-
Peace Munshi,
I hate to say it, but I agree with your friend on this one, I cannot take 254-5 as proof that he wrote quran. Even though I do believe that he did. Here's what I would use..
Chapter 73
- O you who are covered with your garments.
- Stand the night except for a little.
- Half of it, or a little less than that.
- Or a little more, and arrange the Qur?an in its arrangement.
- We will place upon you a saying which is heavy.
- The time of the night is more effective and better for study.
Atleast with this one, you can use it against the illiterate argument.
Here's another one;
- You were not reciting any scripture before this, nor were you writing one down by your hand. In that case, the doubters would have had reason.
Also, do check out the article link that Tanveer posted.
peace
Salam brother Zenje
Can you please explain to me where in these two locations it tells us that Mohammad knew how to WRITE?
Cheers
-
If the prophet did not know how to read and write, it would mean that he was unable to make sure that the quraan was written correctly, or to advise on how some words should be written. Take as an example the phrase "bism" in "bismillaahir-rahmaanir-raheem"", which is written with a different spelling elsewhere
As in "bismillaahi"
As as in "bismi rabbika"How would an illiterate know the difference? How would someone being dictated know that there should be a difference in writing the same word, according to context? Mind you, this is not a rule in Arabic. The way it is written in "bismillahi" is specific to the quraan.
If we believed that he did not write the quraan, it would mean that the quraan was full of mistakes. Is it what the hadith wants us to believe?
-
nobody can prove who wrote it... is that the important part? i thought the important part was who inspired it P
Can you please explain to me where in these two locations it tells us that Mohammad knew how to WRITE?
well if the root of quran has to do with reading, then it would thus imply that whoever it was being delivered to could at least read. thus such a person would not be completely illiterate, although this is no guarantee that they could write as well as read. it is taken for granted in our modern times that literacy means being able to both read and write. it has not necessarily been so throughout every era of history.
-
If the prophet did not know how to read and write, it would mean that he was unable to make sure that the quraan was written correctly, or to advise on how some words should be written. Take as an example the phrase "bism" in "bismillaahir-rahmaanir-raheem"", which is written with a different spelling elsewhere
As in "bismillaahi"
As as in "bismi rabbika"How would an illiterate know the difference? How would someone being dictated know that there should be a difference in writing the same word, according to context? Mind you, this is not a rule in Arabic. The way it is written in "bismillahi" is specific to the quraan.
If we believed that he did not write the quraan, it would mean that the quraan was full of mistakes. Is it what the hadith wants us to believe?
I believe this is an argument that just cannot be refuted. So logical...
-
If the prophet did not know how to read and write, it would mean that he was unable to make sure that the quraan was written correctly, or to advise on how some words should be written. Take as an example the phrase "bism" in "bismillaahir-rahmaanir-raheem"", which is written with a different spelling elsewhere
As in "bismillaahi"
As as in "bismi rabbika"How would an illiterate know the difference? How would someone being dictated know that there should be a difference in writing the same word, according to context? Mind you, this is not a rule in Arabic. The way it is written in "bismillahi" is specific to the quraan.
If we believed that he did not write the quraan, it would mean that the quraan was full of mistakes. Is it what the hadith wants us to believe?
Traditionalists claim that after a scribe wrote the Qur'an down, the (illiterate) prophet would run his finger along the words and if there was a mistake his finger would stop and the mistake would be corrected.
sigh
The thing that makes me wonder about their logic is this
Some of them literally believe the Qur'an was the first thing written and compiled in Arabic, now if this was the case why was there an abundance of scribes living in what should have been a completely illiterate 7th Cent. Makkah? And why does the Qur'an talk about using scribes in certain legal rulings?
-
nobody can prove who wrote it...
Of course nobody can
is that the important part? i thought the important part was who inspired it P
then tell those who argue that Mohammad wrote the Quran without any evidence they provided but conjectures
well if the root of quran has to do with reading, then it would thus imply that whoever it was being delivered to could at least read.
but reading is not writing, or are both the same?
thus such a person would not be completely illiterate,
there is no such thing called completely illiterate, it is either you are or not. on the other hand if you know how to read but you can not write then you are 100% illiterate
although this is no guarantee that they could write as well as read.
of course, the only gurantee that we read in a verse that Mohammad wrote it
it is taken for granted in our modern times that literacy means being able to both read and write.
exactly
it has not necessarily been so throughout every era of history.
In Arabic countries al least it has been forever
-
Peace
It seems to me that the bearer of the quran possessed a level of literacy (that is for both reading and writing).
http//www.geocities.com/fingolfin_hk/illiteracy.html
Joe
Hello
It seems, or it is certain?
if it seems, then sorry what you say is nothing but conjectures
Salam
-
Peace
It seems to me because no human is ever 100% certain of a thing in my opinion. So it seems, refers to MINE OWN awareness Ahmed. Perhaps being an Arab you cannot comprehend such a western disposition.
Joe
Hello
Well, we are not having a chat chat in here to kill the time, what we say about the religion will be held against all of us, the Quran told us not to follow MOST of conjectures, can you please convince me that what you say is one of those lil conjectures that we may follow
on the other hand is believing in who write the Quran a requirement to be a Muslim to Allah?
Salam
-
Peace Ahmed
1- I never told you to follow what I believe to be the case here regarding the bearer of the message.
2- I am a fallible human and my views are more likely than not a mixture of rights and wrongs.
3- I think I am just as incapable of convincing you of anything as the envoy is in his efforts to convince those who do not want to be convinced.
4- If my work is conjecture than that is what it seems to you, to me it seems otherwise.
5- Yes, God is the author of the quran, but you may believe or not, if it seems right or wrong to you.
Joe
-
I think if we can make a collaborative effort putting all the evidences together (unlike the Trads with their own conjectures) then insha Allah we will have a better picture than simply making out of the blue theories.
What we can do is something very few people (usually Secular Western Scholars of Islam and 7th Century Arabia) have done and look at the environment, circumstances and other factors Muhammad lived in to make an educated guess.
I am having a discussion with my freind who does not believe that Quran was written by Muhammad with his own hands.I already quoted him sura 25 verse 5 but still he insist on more evidence.Can any one help me find more verses from the quran or a suitable article which could help me in convincing my freind.
It seems all too often one Muslim will have the goal of finding that Muhammad was literate and simply twist or interperet the facts (or lack of them) to their beliefs, again another Muslim will have the goal of finding that Muhammad was illiterate and will do the same to support their views.
Our views on this issue may only be formed after a good look at facts available not ther other way round. So simply, I say - I don't know for sure whether he was illiterate or not, and until further compelling evidence to either realisation, if I am to be true to myself, my view/belief in this should not change.
-
I believe this is an argument that just cannot be refuted. So logical...
Hello
Yeh yeh, let's see how logical that non sense is
so we have the Hadith of Bukhari telling us a story on how the prophet instructed his fellow to write the Quran in what order, this is hadith is rejected by you and Samia and by myself of course, why?, because it is nothing bbut conjectures
now we have another hadith, it is called the hadith of Samia
in the hadith of Samia, Samia told us that the prophet wrote Be Ism as Bism,
now this hadith of Samia must be rejected also because it is exactly like the hadith of bukhari, or Samnia hadith is more Sahih mister Arnie?
See, I got both of you red handed in a double faced act
Salam
-
Peace Ahmed
Salam mate
1- I never told you to follow what I believe to be the case here regarding the bearer of the message.
did I say that?, on the other hand one of your main principals to reject the hadith that it is nothing but conjectures by the Sunni, can't you see that your fellow Quran Aloners are doing the eact same?
2- I am a fallible human and my views are more likely than not a mixture of rights and wrongs.
well, then the same goes to the hadith advocates and every human on earth, i.e. we are dividning the religion and following our own low desires, that is no no in the Quran btw
3- I think I am just as incapable of convincing you of anything as the envoy is in his efforts to convince those who do not want to be convinced.
well, anyone wants to convince others with anything that is related to islam, must bring their evidences from the Quran if they are truthful, that is the heart and soul of the Quran alone movement, right?
if you failed to convince me then you failed to provide comelling evidences from the Quran, as simple as this
4- If my work is conjecture than that is what it seems to you, to me it seems otherwise.
of course it is, now I ask you again, SHOW ME A VERSE IN THE QURAN THAT TELLS US CONCLUSIVLY THAT MOHAMMAD KNEW HOW TO WRITE.
5- Yes, God is the author of the quran, but you may believe or not, if it seems right or wrong to you.
Joe
Oh, please donlt manipulate my question, I mean to believe that a human like mohammad wrioite the Quran,
my question still stands, here it is reohrased
is it a requirement to believe which human documented the Quran to be 100% Muslim to Allah?
Salam
-
now we have another hadith, it is called the hadith of Samia
in the hadith of Samia, Samia told us that the prophet wrote Be Ism as Bism,
I don't get it really? She posted about what she thought, just as you post about what you think. If you have a problem with what she's posted shouldn't you refute it according to what she actually said rather than she posted "x" and just on that basis alone it's a hadith and not worth it? Explain please.