Can it be proved that "Qiblatain" is an Arabic word?
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A mosque in Madina Munawwara is popularly known as "Qiblatain". If someone suggest that this word is false and fabricated can someone show us this word in any old Lughat/lexicon/dictionary of Arabic? There are three nations who have their own "Qiblata" different from each other. If qiblatain is a proper arabic word, what is its plural. The question in detail is posed in the book titled "Kaaba Moazamma=Qiblata awwal wa Aakhar" available at site www.haqeeqat.org.pk
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Brother Anwar,
Request is to research whether the word "Qiblatain" is a genuine or fabricated one. If the word is fabricted one then the concept/perception behind it is false and fabricated. The word must have a concept/fact and the concept/fact must have a word. It relates to a story of change of Qiblata from Kaaba Moazamma to so called "Baitul Muqaddas".
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Peace,
Be patient brother and calm down. You don't need any dictionary lexicon or anyting of the sort. The proper word is qiblataani (two qiblahs). In Classical Arabic this becomes qiblataini when it comes after a preposition or if it is the owner of something like jaamalu qiblataini (the beauty of two qiblas) or masaajidu qiblataini (masjids of two qiblahs).
In modern Arabics the dual is only used in the 'ain' form. So everything that is doubled is 'ain' rajulain, baitain etc. etc. And the kasrah on the end is dropped. I guess I wasn't conscious of your level of Arabic before i answered you, I apologize for that. I hope the answer is clear now that qiblatain is not a proper word in and of itself but the dual form of qiblah that is always used in modern Arabics.
If you want to know why that place is called qiblatain you are going to have to dig into the history of that place. I was somewhat familiar with the idea that both Mecca and Madina were called the qiblatain (two qiblahs). The meaning of qiblah that I gave above should complete the picture for you.Godbless,
Anwar -
Thanks brother Anwar, for such decent and lovely way of teaching a new comer on the Forum. I am Ajmi and most humbly admit the superiority of Arabic over all (even taken collectively) ajmi languages. Allah has divided the globe, not territory wise, but on the basis of language into two parts Arabic and aajmi. Arabic of Quran e Majeed is Mubeen like the Quran itself, which is Mubeen, Kitabi Mubeen. Since 1990 I had gone through dozens of Tafasir in Urdu and English and then tried to go through Arabic Tafasir of Qurtabi, Jalalain, Ibne Kathir etc but didn?t help to know exactly what the ?Alhaqqo? i.e. Quran e Majeed was explaining the ?proven truth?. Their contribution was enough to complicate things and then people like Rashid Khalifa and Pervez compounded the confusion for a simple reader. Therefore I decided to forget everything, remove everything from the memory, and listen carefully directly to the words of the Book. And found the book revealing, it is a ?living? book.
Brother, I was impressed and enlightened by Sister Samia and your discussion about linguistic theories, perfect synonym and ?signify?, ?to mean?(perhaps in Mohsanaat). In response to what I had written, your impression was ?Be patient brother and calm down?. This shows that placing of the words in a certain manner also become a reflection for the other person to guess the state of feelings/mind. But if you had heard and seen expressions on my face when I uttered these words before placing them on computer, you may have taken my state of mind differently. I was calm, cool, relaxed and smiling.
Bi ay yi dzambin qutilat;
For what crime she was killed;{819}.
This is correct ?meaning? but how cool, void of passion and expression and force. This reflects the poverty of aajmi language while translating words of Quran e Majeed to express or signify in what mood it had been said. Quran e Majeed says men can be recognized from ?Lahinil qaul?. I don?t know the intricacies and niceties of grammar, linguistics, but I wish that you and sister Samia keep on discussing about such matters for benefit for people like me.My problem is solved ?that qiblatain is not a proper word in and of itself?. I understand elementary things how a singular is converted into dual. But can we write in the middle of any statement ?Qiblata? as Qiblah? We will not pronounce ?ta? if it is in the end of the speech but we will have to write with ?ta? always. My study was regarding the stories in Hadith and Rawait regarding ?Qiblata awwal? and myth of changing from Kaaba etc. And general confusion of Masjidul Harram considered as Qiblata. Qiblata is always referred as ?feminine? while Masjidul Harram and Al Aqsaa is always ?masculine?.
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Peace,
Thanks for the reply. I don't agree that Arabic is superior to any language or more clear than any other language. I just think it served God's purpose for the revelation of his last book in orienting us on how to understand it and what we can get from it.
From an Arabic perspective A'jamee can mean foreigner or in particular Persian.I am glad you are benefiting from the conversation on this forum. The tafseers mostly are opinions but reading them I am sure has definitelly help to improve your Arabic.
As far as qiblat is concerned. Not pronouncing the ta marbootas on the end of a word I believe is an invention all in order to make the Quran rhyme more. It is possible that it was apart of Old Arabic voicing and oratory, as there are examples of this and other things with poems, however it is poetic license that moved its way into real Classical Arabic in my opinion.
Qiblah is techncially qiblatun and can change to qiblatin, qiblatan qiblatu, qiblata and qiblati depending on where it falls in the sentence
thammata qiblatun (there is a qiblah)
ra'aitu qiblatan ( I saw a qiblah)
heya wahidatun min qiblatin (it/ she is a qiblah/one of the qiblahs/a female from the qiblah)
thammata qiblatu-ul-daabati (There is the qiblah of the animals)
ra'itu qiblata -anasaaraa ( I saw the Christian's qiblah)
heya wahidatun min qiblati-inaasi (It/She is a qiblah of the people/one of the qiblahs/a female from the qiblah of the people)Godbless,
Anwar -
Brother Anwar,
Can you refer me to dual/plural of Qiblata written anywhere in any lexicon, dictionary, peotry book, Quran? If it is not available in writing anywhere, would it not be correct to presume that it is a peculiar nown which does not have dual and plural?
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Salaam Mazhar
Very good question and I can understand the reason for your insistence.
Possibly you know this already since you have done quite a lot of analyzing the word. The word comes from the root QBL and the core meaning of the root is ?opposite?. From this the derivatives take the meanings such as ?in front? and before?. Also facing, face to face and even predecessors are indirect meanings from the core meaning. Another important meaning is ?accept? according to some it may be from the meaning "standing/being in front to accept/receive". All these meanings are used in the Quraan over 300 times for the derivatives from this root. Also few times with the meaning ?tribe?. Use the openburhan or Text in Motion to find all uses of this root in the Quraan. You can find details of this root with use in the Quran the verses and the meanings from studyquran.org as well. Direction and focal point has no relation to the core meaning and it is not used to mean those in the Quraan.
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?Possibly you know this already since you have done quite a lot of analyzing the word? {Warner}
Yes, Brother I conducted a little bit of research to find the true meanings of the word ?Qiblata? and tried utmost to find somewhere the word ?qiblatain? which seemed to me false and fabricated word. I asked few scholars and doctors in Arabic telling them that I call this ?word? a fabricated and false one; can you prove it to be a genuine word? When they don?t find it anywhere, I say for a concept there has to be a word, if word is not there the concept is false and fabricated one. When they find that things are going somewhere else they start ?ain?, ?tain? style of trying to prove it a genuine word. But this does not work. I want to be 100% sure; that is why I request for it because I could not go through all the lexicons, old as well as modern; though 5-6 of them consulted are considered authority by many.
All those who messed up the things, at least created two strong myths which are being believed as ?absolute truth?. As for example Rashad Khalifa survives on two points ?messenger of covenant? and ?false verses 9128-129?. Prove these two myths as fraudulent; RK will die his own death. And the best way, as taught by Quran, is to confront his followers with realities by referring to Rasjhad Khalifa alone. A liar and cheater always leave very visible traces of his fraud. Just study him with little care; and he will start exposing himself.
Similarly amongst the traditionalists, two traditions are the main life of those who spread them. One about the changing of Kaaba as Qiblata and the other about the air lifting to skies and return of Easa {Jesus-peace is upon him}, since it also includes so called ?signs? of coming of the last day, dramatically said ?End of time?. Prove these two wrong and baseless by confronting them with the facts, and the pyramid of hadith will fall on ground for those who are not theselves Fasiq.
?The word comes from the root QBL and the core meaning of the root is ?opposite?. From this the derivatives take the meanings such as ?in front? and before?.
The Arabic Root " " does not perhaps have the core or basic meaning ?opposite?. The word ?opposite? is misleading since it is not specific and gives different perceptions; on facing side positioned so as to face somebody or something from the other side of an intervening space; facing away pointing, facing, or moving away from each other; totally different different from or contrary to something or each other in every respect.
Its core or basic meaning is ?face to face?, ?confronting?, and ?focusing each other?
It does not refer to ?direction?, ?angle, side?.
Its contr. is which means backside, opposite of the facing side.
Lexicons translate this root as ?face to face?, ?object, objective focused in thought and perception?, traditionalists assign it the meanings like ?its original meanings are direction {east,west,north,south}, the place in the direction of which face is kept during salat, the direction in which one faces towards the location of Kaaba; and since Kaaba is in front of the face of the person saying salat, therefore, Kaaba is Qiblah?
Quran does not support this perception. has said that the basic meanings of this root is ?one thing facing the other? ?face to face?. Evidence and the meanings, interpretation given by Quran about this word,sometime later, InshaAllah. -
Mazhar,
I don't know what you are getting at exactly in trying to prove that qiblatain is a false word. It is more than a given that qiblatain is the dual of qibatun. It is a derivative of qiblatun. Just because it may have never been written does not mean that it is a fabricated word. You may never find kalbaini or jaannain(two snakes) in your life but ain is just the dual form that is mansoob or majroor. If qiblataani is the direct object or followed by a preposition it will be exactly qiblataini. You need these two conditions to make the aani convern to an aini.
In the Arabic dialects or Modernized Fushaa you will see qiblataani and qiblataini only as qiblatain. This is ONLY a pronuncation issue, they all still mean that same thing. Dialects will not follow the rules of mansoob and majroor and Modernized Arabics will not pronounce the 'i' on th end of aani and aini.
As for the concept of what most Muslim refer to when they say qiblatain that is COMPLETELY different. When they say Qiblatain they will most likely be referring to Mecca and Medina. Qiblatun also has the meaning of Kullumaa yustaqbal. That is everything that you go to meet, head towards, convene on. It is the equivlant of mazaar, place that you visit. So Mecca and Medinah were most likely given this name al-qiblatain (in the Modern Arabic/Dialect style of talking) to denote that these two places are both places that Muslim convene on and visit.
Do you get it now? I hope you don't persist in trying to prove that this is a false word. There is no need to go around trying to prove traditional Islamic words false and that they are fabricated. What is more correct is to distinguish the fabricated MEANINGS that came around after the Quran, know where they came from, how they came about and annul those meanings when you see the word written in the Quran.
Godbless,
Anwar -
I thnk I understand what mazhar is at, and it is very logical! Linguistically you can say "qiblatain two qiblas" and "qiblaat plural, qiblas"; similarly you can also say "anfaihi his two noses, and unuufihihi his noses"!! So, his question is not the theoretical, linguistic part, but the semantic one. Can someone have "two qiblas"? Can you have "two fronts"?
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Yes Brother. Brother Afridi has also posted the link, my problem/point of study. A word is not paper currency that the governments of third world countries keep publishing without the backup support of gold and silver. A word is that which has a fact/perception on its back. If a fact/perception is not there it becomes meaningless how a word is formed and converted into dual and plural. Dual/plural must exist before we convert a singular into dual/plural by applying the agreed methods.
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Peace,
I read the story, but what is your point brother? The word qiblah exists and the dual or plural for them can always exist. Qiblah has a few meanings but one of them for traditional Muslims is a direction towards which one prays. So look at that story and that explains why they say that the mosque has two qiblahs. I mean would you question the phrase two qiblahs and say that 'two qiblahs' is a fabricated phrase? It is obvious that two and qiblahs have separate meanings and when you put the two together you get two qiblahs. The same goes for the Arabic qiblat and ain. If you put dhoo in front of qiblataan you get dhool-qiblatain. Would you even dare to say that masjid and dhoo are fabricated words as well? Of course they're not and neither is qiblatain. If you don't agree with the story then say the story is a load of crap to you, but don't over think this thing. Don't start annulling obvious Arabic patterns and grammar. What is the point to that? The word qiblatain is no more made up than the phrase 'two directions of prayer.' If you think that story is fabricated just say that. You don't have to throw out the baby with the bath water. With all due respect that is more than extreme, it's illogical and irrational.
Godbless,
Anwar -
Brother Anwar, Salam,
The story is no doubt false. This word is not the singular evidence. But you are not considering my premises. I say a word must have a fact/physical existence of a thing/perception on its back otherwise it will be nothing but fabrication/false, nothwithstanding all prinicpals of language coming on its side. If there was a plural of this word in existance then Allah should have used it in 1087 Wa auhaina_ ila_ mu_sa_ wa akhihi an tabawwa'a li qaumikuma_ bi misra buyu_taw waj'alu_ buyu_takum qiblataw
All words are plural except Qiblata, why not Qiblataan?
Reason is simpleWa likulliw wijhatun huwa muwalliha_{Ref 2148}
At a point of time there is only one direction a man can turn/face. This is the limitation of human beings. We don't have the eye of housefly, fixed with 5000 lenses. A man can be Dhulqirnain but not dhulqiblatain; and if a man at one point of time was facing North and at another point of time facing towards Sourth, would he/it be called Dhulqiblatain? -
Peace,
Every Muslim who would go in that mosque now would only pray to one direction. So dhul-qiblatain is a nickname. It is a nickname for those people who believe in that story to give to the masjid to relate back to this story that they believed happend there. To me the issue is not so deep or gross as to try to consider that qiblatain cannot even exist as word.
Honestly in the context of 1087 qiblatan is qualifying the context in which the houses should be taken. It can be plural or singular. You can say that the men fought qaa'iman lillahi or qaa'imeena lillaahi. It doesn't really matter. To be specific the first is qualifying the fighting and the second the men. Just as wa aj'aloo buyootakum qiblatan, specifically refers to the making (aj'aloo), although if it had said waj&aloo buyootakum qubalan or qiblaatin it would have meant the same thing, but would have been qualifying buyoot instead.
So after I've said all that, I would like to know did you make your decision about the plural of qiblah based on the fact that you thought qiblatan was qualifying buyoot or because you believe that if the plural of a word used by the Quran is not in the Quran it is an invented word? I am praying you made your decision on the first premise, and that that issue has been resolved.
Godbless,
Anwar -
Peace Anwar , Samia
Qibla according to etymology the old meaning is ?opposite?. In Hebrew the word means opposite, in front, accept.
10 87
Wa auhaina_ ila_ mu_sa_ wa akhihi an tabawwa'a li qaumikuma_ bi misra buyu_taw waj'alu_ buyu_takum qiblataw wa aqimus sala_h(ta), wa basysyiril mu'minin(a).The verse is addressed to both Moses and Aaron. Is it possible the verse is instructing them to establish houses for their people ?within Egypt? (since the command to take the Children of Israel and leave Egypt has not come) and to make houses for Moses and Aaron on the opposite/in front/ qiblataw meaning outside Egypt/out side the jurisdiction of Pharaoh.