Hitting One's Wife.
-
Also, remember that the position you are taking is even more ridiculous when we use the "1400 years of scholarship cannot be wrong" logic. If that is indeed the case, then why is it that it took 6000+ years of human history for atheism/agnosticism to be established? Were all those people (some of who wrote far better literary and other works than of today) wrong?
-
What angels?
Define "jinn". I want to know why it is untranslated perpetually, like "hadeeth", "quran", "muslim" and other words. Like I said, you are still stuck in the Sunni mindset and idealogy.
You rarely actually answer any question do you?
OK - forget angels and Jinn - just more nasty lies of those evil "Sunnis".
Let's just stick with God.
Is not belief in God also "ridiculous to the reality we know" ?
-
Exactly
use the search function cosmicdancer, and even though there is no consensus, you'll find that jinn and malaika can be found inside yourself.
And did you never read about an organizing force behind all that exists that some great scientists suspect to exist?
Another question - again who is your avatar ? I hope it's not you cause i might just decide to stalk you ...
peace
lkI'm afraid I don't believe in Jinn, Malaika or any of that stuff.
The avatar is not me.
-
You rarely actually answer any question do you?
OK - forget angels and Jinn - just more nasty lies of those evil "Sunnis".
Let's just stick with God.
Is not belief in God also "ridiculous to the reality we know" ?
Why would I answer about something I don't know? But also, what angels? And please define "jinn". I simply want to know what you imagine from these terms.
Is not belief in God also "ridiculous to the reality we know" ?
A man in the sky or mount olympus, definitely. Can you explain why out of all of these trillions of star clusters, so far, the number of planets with life found are 1? Also, how all these super-coincidences came to be? Atheism takes more faith. 1 in 10x10^blah blah blah chance vs God, which wins?
If there is a God as described in the Quran, that 1x10^blah blah blah chance becomes 1. God as described in the Quran is closer to pantheism/panentheism than any other "ism" I've seen so far.
-
I'm afraid I don't believe in Jinn, Malaika or any of that stuff.
The avatar is not me.
salaam cosmicdancer
i think you really don't read, be it answers or questions. Lucky you that the avatar is not you!
And yes, the second part - just as of my last post - is supposed to be a joke.
lk
-
Can you explain why out of all of these trillions of star clusters, so far, the number of planets with life found are 1?
I can't.
Atheism takes more faith. 1 in 10x10^blah blah blah chance vs God, which wins?
I'm not an athiest. My position is closer to an Agnostic - I neither confirm nor deny the existence of God - I believe such a thing is unknowable for certain.
My point was that if one can believe in God - for which there is no evidence according to the "reality we know" - then one cannot dismiss things like Jinn, Angels, Miraculous journeys to the heavens, or flying spaghetti monsters.
What one decides to believe when it comes to spiritual matters is inevitably going to be a subjective decision.
-
then one cannot dismiss things like Jinn, Angels, Miraculous journeys to the heavens, or flying spaghetti monsters.
Jinn, I am waiting your definition of. What angels, again? How does malaikah = angels? The difference is that the FSM hasn't been claimed to have been communicating to humans as far back as history goes - God has. Effectively every single prior civilisation was polytheist - but the thing is, they all had a "head" God. Zeus, Ra, Odin and so on. The idea and concept of God is stamped firmly into the brain, where are the ancient atheist/agnostic civilisations? As for miraculous journeys - again, you are displaying the Sunni mindset. What miraculous journey? Surely you have heard of a spiritual journey?
I believe such a thing is unknowable for certain.
It all comes down to the simple question - Chance, or God. Either the universe is the way it is - because otherwise, we would not exist - or God exists. This is, of course, beyond our perception.
I'd say clear out the Sunni mindset first )
-
The difference is that the FSM hasn't been claimed to have been communicating to humans as far back as history goes - God has. Effectively every single prior civilisation was polytheist - but the thing is, they all had a "head" God. Zeus, Ra, Odin and so on. The idea and concept of God is stamped firmly into the brain, where are the ancient atheist/agnostic civilisations?
People believed all sorts of things. But the fact that people were far more supersitious in the past doesn't mean such supersitions are true.
It all comes down to the simple question - Chance, or God.
Actually there is another possibility. That it is not chance, but is simply beyond our understanding and unknowable - at least at our present level of understanding.
-
But don't you think it's odd how all these Islamic scholars and Muslims down the ages didn't understand the Qur'an and the Arabic language properly until today?
To assume that past scholar were completely unaware or completely misguide it TOTALLY illogical and blatantly rejecting for rejecting sake without reason.
Cosmicdancer,
The absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. Human are limited to only five sense, anything the exist beyond those five senses are invisible and to our perception, non-existence. That is why God requires us to BELIEVE in jinns/angels (2285). Because we (humans) cannot sense their existence. We are obvious to them (5021-22). But because we canNOT sense these things, is not factual evidence of their absence. Something to consider.
BTW, is you avatar of the Beatles? Or some 70's movie star. Dude look familiar.
-
People believed all sorts of things. But the fact that people were far more supersitious in the past doesn't mean such supersitions are true.
Actually there is another possibility. That it is not chance, but is simply beyond our understanding and unknowable - at least at our present level of understanding.
The fact remains that every civilisation had a head God, pagan Arabs included. This is in line with the story of Noah and others, i.e. starting from monotheism, then additional idols are brought forwards. No matter where you look (Mayans, Native Americans, etc) and no matter the level of sophistication (some were very sophisticated, how do you explain Pennrose tiles? Pyramids?), people always believed in a God - they set up partners with God, but there is always such and such. Where is there an atheist/agnostic civilisation in history, and did it prosper if it even existed?
That it is not chance, but is simply beyond our understanding and unknowable - at least at our present level of understanding.
Which is why I said "This is, of course, beyond our perception."
What matters is not God, because in the Quran God is described as beyond need of us, what matters is humanity, and our own prosperity.
-
What matters is not God, because in the Quran God is described as beyond need of us, what matters is humanity, and our own prosperity.
words of wisdom
-
BTW, is you avatar of the Beatles? Or some 70's movie star. Dude look familiar.
None of those... hehe... I'm not saying... I wonder if anyone can guess D
-
... Silly me.
-
The fact remains that every civilisation had a head God, pagan Arabs included. This is in line with the story of Noah and others, i.e. starting from monotheism, then additional idols are brought forwards. No matter where you look (Mayans, Native Americans, etc) and no matter the level of sophistication (some were very sophisticated, how do you explain Pennrose tiles? Pyramids?), people always believed in a God - they set up partners with God, but there is always such and such. Where is there an atheist/agnostic civilisation in history, and did it prosper if it even existed?
Which is why I said "This is, of course, beyond our perception."
What matters is not God, because in the Quran God is described as beyond need of us, what matters is humanity, and our own prosperity.
I agree with you that man has generally believed in God - and I even I must admit that although my position is Agnostic, I lean towards belief in God/Cosmic Force/Divine Power or whatever one wants to call it.
The problem for me is religion.
EDIT btw I thought you rejected what people of the past believed when it came to the scholars who said the verse means hit/beat. Yet now you are happy to accept what people in the past believed.
-
Which is why I said "This is, of course, beyond our perception."
What matters is not God, because in the Quran God is described as beyond need of us, what matters is humanity, and our own prosperity.
Do you believe that the Quran is from God or have you changed you mind as it seems? The Quran by all its exegesis, clearly emphasizes that this "god" (the God of the Quran) is in desperate need of humans and cannot stand anyone from disobeying Him. -
For those who say the verse says "Leave them" - what does that mean?
-
Divorce them?
-
Abandon them?
-
Let them carry on rebelling?
-
Something else - What?
)
-
-
You rarely actually answer any question do you?
OK - forget angels and Jinn - just more nasty lies of those evil "Sunnis".
Let's just stick with God.
Is not belief in God also "ridiculous to the reality we know" ?
Well said
These do not answer to any question.
How can they answer when they do not know ?? They always try to distract the thread by putting another question very common modus operandi.
see what "Jinns" have to do with "Beating of wife" ?? -
Peace Genteel,
The Quran by all its exegesis, clearly emphasizes that this "god" (the God of the Quran) is in desperate need of humans and cannot stand anyone from disobeying Him.
Perhaps the following might be of some use
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=15057.msg141643#msg141643Nadeem
-
Well said
These do not answer to any question.
How can they answer when they do not know ?? They always try to distract the thread by putting another question very common modus operandi.
see what "Jinns" have to do with "Beating of wife" ??Please do not butt in without reading, I already gave my answer.
When is your eye test, by the way?