Hitting One's Wife.
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Maybe they should've gotten out a little more
I with you on that D
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cosmicdancer on the plus side, now that you are no longer bound by your religion you are now free to explore the true origins... for example, who knows if it's even really 1400 years old... but if you are no longer religiously bound to accept the narrations you can dig deeper and deeper... if you're interested, that is
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cosmicdancer on the plus side, now that you are no longer bound by your religion you are now free to explore the true origins... for example, who knows if it's even really 1400 years old... but if you are no longer religiously bound to accept the narrations you can dig deeper and deeper... if you're interested, that is
Sure AaRoN - I know that life is a long journey - I am not foolish enough to think I have reached the end of the road - learning and discovery never ends.
That works both ways though, my friend.
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satanhatesme you make me laugh because you go on and on about the agendas of others and then you bring in your 19 code miracle stuff... so who has the agenda?
it wasn't a agenda but the best example and argument fr that particular point I was trying to communicate. Dont be mad because the topic fit so perfectly.
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Hello Nadeem,
If a friend of mine asked me about marital advice, I could actually advise him as a last step to leave his wife,
Wise point! I would certainly convey that advise too out of humbleness and current perspectives. But from holy books and historical standpoints, there are inumerous articles portraying the very beating of wives and other unjustified punishments arising from jahilia periods sanctioned in these very ancient books. Ofcourse one will always find apologetics defending desperately their holier-than-thou books and "God" point of views. Besides, there are other Quran Alone groups that do support wife beating as justifed including other sectarians. You will also notice similar patterns in other non-Muslim religions as well. On the contrary, when one ponders upon certain humantarian modified justifications from a "religious" standpoint, western countries seem to have surpassed those of what once the alleged prophets of God brought about (and this statement does not apply to western countries being right in every respect).where the word "leave" literally would mean "beat", or "beat her with a bullet".
But then that wouldn't be literal.In urdu, we often say "Usko goli maar!" = "Hit him/her/it with a bullet" and it could mean "Just leave it alone", "don't bother with it", "Stop worrying about it" etc, i.e it conveys the idea of distancing oneself. My intonation and body language would leave no doubt as to what I meant. No one would think I said "Shoot your wife", even though those are the words I used. For those who didn't witness my intonation or body language, a minimal amount of brains on their part would assist them in reaching the right meaning.
Yes, body gestures and voice cadences do carry their strengths, but sometimes may give out wrong impressions, such as, "aray do chanta mar dey seethe ho jai gi" and especially from afar or to a crooked person. I'm sure many other factors come into play where a husband would simply let go of his wife without putting up a "fight". Perhaps in our current eccentric and egocentric populated environments, it is hard to find humble ones on either sides.In any case, whether idrib meant beat or leave, 434 would still become a problem in relations to other verses where punishment of adultry is stated. If a husband were to let go of his wife as a last resort for being unfaithful, what about her adulterer? If the adulterer (assuming he was single) was to be punished by lashings, then why would the wife be set free at all since she is found guilty on two counts. How about the verse which states that one's women must be confined to their homes until death do her apart? Such "wisdom" is rare these days.
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Their sources were Hadith, the Arabic language, it's Grammar and the Qur'an itself. (Zamakhshari was an expert on Arabic grammar and wrote a grammar book, a dictionary and many other works that are still used to today)
But my question is this - are you saying that all these classical scholars were mistaken and didn't understand the Qur'an properly?
Salaam
There are people who believe God is a man who died on a cross or Jesus is son of God or God himself or God is a black stone who are grammar experts , written Grammar books , dictionaries many other in their own languages such as Hebrew , Aramaic.
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Arabic is EFFICIENT, yes, but not very detailed. English can be just as detailed as Arabic, but not with the same efficiency. Plus GOD said the only reason he deliver the Quran in Arabic is because Muhammad and his community spoke that language (4144).
4144
If we made it a non-Arabic Quran they would have said, "Why did it come down in that language (clear)?" Whether it is Arabic or non-Arabic, say, "For those who believe, it is a guide and healing. As for those who disbelieve, they will be deaf and blind to it, as if they are being addressed from faraway."Muhammad's (and his community) spoken language is the ONLY reason supported in the Quran. It not me saying this, the Quran said that. The Arabic language is not divine or special with regards to the Quran.
Salaam
Do you think God had to compromise with a word which has the closest meaning since He could not find a word to convey the exact meaning since Arabic was not detailed enough so all of us can be confused for 1200 years? We must have more trust in God and His revelation. If we do not understand or confused it is because of our own problems. The Arabic language, detailed or not efficient or not, is just sufficient to convey what God wanted to convey 100 %.
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Could it be that some "god" must have sealed all those intelligent minds who thought adribu meant hit/beat and decided to wait till 21st century to open up minds of some of his favoured ones? The very belief of an ancient god (s) and goddess (es), have also been hijacked but the body parts remain the same, as it seems.
Well said .
But who can tell this thing to "pseudointellectuals"? -
Salaam
There are people who believe God is a man who died on a cross or Jesus is son of God or God himself or God is a black stone who are grammar experts , written Grammar books , dictionaries many other in their own languages such as Hebrew , Aramaic.
Indeed.
That is true.
But don't you think it's odd how all these Islamic scholars and Muslims down the ages didn't understand the Qur'an and the Arabic language properly until today?
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But don't you think it's odd how all these Islamic scholars and Muslims down the ages didn't understand the Qur'an and the Arabic language properly until today?
Those islamic scholars were also hell-bent on following their glorious hadeeth that rationalize, and enforce wife-beating. Subjective opinions have no weight.
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you also do understand that any scholar that preaches God alone is declared an apostate in the so called islam world? (most of 'islamic' world) And ordered to be killed. I don't have the sources myself, but 'quran alone' is not a new idea, it's been around a while...
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you also do understand that any scholar that preaches God alone is declared an apostate in the so called islam world? And ordered to be killed. I don't have the sources myself, but 'quran alone' is not a new idea, it's been around a while...
Can you give example how many Qadiani's were Killed in Pakistand within the last 60yrs in Pakistan.
To lie is the art of Quranists .... A built - in defect -
Indeed.
That is true.
But don't you think it's odd how all these Islamic scholars and Muslims down the ages didn't understand the Qur'an and the Arabic language properly until today?
Peace cosmicdancer
When Noah came to the people and lived for 950 years preaching among them don?t you think it was only ark full of people who understood and followed his message in the entire earth? If from Adam to Noah People can go that far astray why should we doubt the last 1400 years.
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Indeed.
That is true.
But don't you think it's odd how all these Islamic scholars and Muslims down the ages didn't understand the Qur'an and the Arabic language properly until today?
I think they understood the Quran VERY well, based on hearsay and conjecture. Keep in mind I only have read a few snippets/books of them.
Is it fruitful, to understand a subject but with additional information - information that relates to the existance of Pegasus reincarnate? One could say every mentally ill person understood the world they saw very well. But at the end of the day, that world invariably had pink elephants and other things that are obviously ridiculous to the reality we know and agree on.
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Peace cosmicdancer
When Noah came to the people and lived for 950 years preaching among them don?t you think it was only ark full of people who understood and followed his message in the entire earth? If from Adam to Noah People can go that far astray why should we doubt the last 1400 years.
I'm sorry but I don't believe in these stories.
What is the evidence that they are real?
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I think they understood the Quran VERY well, based on hearsay and conjecture. Keep in mind I only have read a few snippets/books of them.
Is it fruitful, to understand a subject but with additional information - information that relates to the existance of Pegasus reincarnate? One could say every mentally ill person understood the world they saw very well. But at the end of the day, that world invariably had pink elephants and other things that are obviously ridiculous to the reality we know and agree on.
And is belief in God and angels and jinn etc... not ridiculous to the reality we know?
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And is belief in God and angels and jinn etc... not ridiculous to the reality we know?
What angels?
Define "jinn". I want to know why it is untranslated perpetually, like "hadeeth", "quran", "muslim" and other words. Like I said, you are still stuck in the Sunni mindset and idealogy.
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Exactly
use the search function cosmicdancer, and even though there is no consensus, you'll find that jinn and malaika can be found inside yourself.
And did you never read about an organizing force behind all that exists that some great scientists suspect to exist?
Another question - again who is your avatar ? I hope it's not you cause i might just decide to stalk you ...
peace
lk