Hitting One's Wife.
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I just want to say my opinion in the matter. The verse troubled me as well (especially when you talk to woman about it) until I read other verses. The verse commands you NOT to hit your wife. It doest it in a genius way.
The verse of the Quran are mention in a way to test your heart. To strengthen it or expose it. That is the genius of the Quran. Let look at a similar verse, multiple wifes. Many ?muslin? men have multiple wifes. They legalize there desire for women in this verse
43
If you deem it best for the orphans, you may marry their mothers - you may marry two, three, or four?..However many of the marriages are void and not legitimate. In this verse, you can ONLY marry multiple wifes IF they are single mothers. You cannot marry more than one wife UNLESS she have children. That simple. However this verse exposes a man lustful desire. This is how the Quran expose your true intentions.
The same is with the ?beat a wife? verse
434
The men are made responsible for the women, and GOD has endowed them with certain qualities, and made them the bread earners. The righteous women will cheerfully accept this arrangement, since it is GOD's commandment, and honor their husbands during their absence. If you experience rebellion from the women, you shall first talk to them, then (you may use negative incentives like) deserting them in bed, then you may (as a last alternative) beat them. If they obey you, you are not permitted to transgress against them. GOD is Most High, Supreme.#1
Please remember this verse is about wifes who have ALREADY cheated on her husband previously. That why God says ?FEARS rebellion? in the husband absence. How can you fear if you wife will cheat on you if she haven?t done so already in the past? That is why Khalifa authorize translation says ?experienced rebellion? to stress that fact that you must first experience cheating (adultery) in the past to even considered hitting you wife.So basically you CANNOT beat or even think of beating your wife if she hasn?t cheated on you in the past. Plus God give clear verses on what it takes to prove if a woman has cheated on her husband (244). That eliminates 99% of husband trying to justify hitting their wife.
#2
God hates oppression and ill treatment of women (4128, 2191). More responsibility means greater rewards. There is a reason why woman are responsible for the baring and nutriment of children.#3
God prohibit hitting your wife by giving major steps (all in one verse) to take first because even thinking of hitting your wife. Basically,- If she cheated on your in the past
- And she cheated again
- Seek a marriage counselor to about it / or talk with her
Now if she (1) cheated on you in the past, and you seek counseling or talked to her about it, BUT she still cheating
- Then don?t sleep with her (have sexual relations)
Now if she (1) cheated on you in the past, and (2) you seek counseling or talked to her about it, BUT she still cheating. Then you (3) stop sexual relations with her. Then
- Beat her
To me it like eatting junk food (i know it sound weird but let me explain). If I dont want child to eat junk food, I will tell him/her to eat other things first, so by the time her or she is finish with the other dishes, it will be too full to eat junk food. The same logic is apply to beating your wife. God doesn't want you to eat junk for (symbolic for beating your wife) so he tell you to do all these things other things first before you can eat the junk food. But by the time you finish the other things, you dont want the junk food anymore (want you cheating wife).
Like Khalifa states in his translation about verse 434 , ??..God prohibits wife-beating by using the best psychological approach. For example, if I don't want you to shop at Market X, I will ask you to shop at Market Y, then at Market Z, then, as a last resort, at Market X. This will effectively stop you from shopping at Market X, without insulting you. Similarly, God provides alternatives to wife-beating; reasoning with her first, then employing certain negative incentives. Remember that the theme of this sura is defending the women's rights and countering the prevalent oppression of women. Any interpretation of the verses of this sura must be in favor of the women. This sura's theme is ``protection of women.''?..?
So in reflection, the verse actually calls on you (and testes you) to NOT beat your wife by giving you a createria and steps and means to achieve the same goal of stopping your wife from cheating on you. But if you are so dumb to still try to be with her after all those times she cheated on you, maybe she needs to beat you instead for your stupidity. )
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SHM, that's a reasonable thing except for the simple step in logic - how did you find "fear nushuz" to = "experienced"? Also, please explain how "experienced cheating" is shown in the Quran to mean "fear nushuz". There is no link as far as I see, fear comes prior to the act. As for "you must first experience cheating (adultery) in the past to even considered hitting you wife", presumeably Rashad Khalifa had no experience with domestic violence.
http//www.womensaid.org.uk/landing_page.asp?section=0001000100050008
It is in some way, hard-wired in humans. It is not also something that happens rarely, being 16% of all violent crime in the UK (http//www.homeoffice.gov.uk/crime-victims/reducing-crime/domestic-violence/).
Can I please get an Arabic reference for the "(first), (second)" and others in the translations, please show me where these steps occur.
So, someone is considering suicide. The Quran will hence say "do X, do Y, do Z, then commit suicide", right?
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Here are other problems
In 434, the husband is commanded to beat his wife as a last resort, but then if the wife had already been disloyal/unfaithful, then she being the adulteress must also be lashed a 100 times as per 242 along with the adulterer. Hmmm, double punishment. Now what happens if she continues to disobey her husband even after she is beaten up???
Ahem! if she is still alive after being lashed or beaten up, then perhaps either marry her off to the adulterer or an idolworshipper ??? (243) or lock her up until death do her apart (415). Go figure!
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Please underline these "stages" from "Quranist" claims and please show where in the book of the "Quranist" these stages are defined. Thanks. More questions to follow.
Dear ;
No problem If you do not believe in these three stages ,translate this aya and let see which way the wind blows. -
Dear ;
No problem If you do not believe in these three stages ,translate this aya and let see which way the wind blows.yuck
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Dear ;
The actual aya is
434Which word is translated as "Either" ?
Should I take another example of tampering Quran ?Neither!
Dear (Function interjection -- used especially to express annoyance or dismay)
Either (Function conjunction -- used as a function word before two or more coordinate words)
write/add value or go waidriboo whomever. yuck
lol
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Neither!
Dear (Function interjection -- used especially to express annoyance or dismay)
Either (Function conjunction -- used as a function word before two or more coordinate words)
write/add value or go waidriboo whomever. yuck
lol
Another tampering of the Quran ---- Recorded
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Another tampering of the Quran ---- Recorded
You may be versed in Arabic, please do not accuse people of "tampering" when you cannot even comprehend what they are saying in English. The grammar of his post made it quite clear that "either" was not used as part of the translation.
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You may be versed in Arabic, please do not accuse people of "tampering" when you cannot even comprehend what they are saying in English. The grammar of his post made it quite clear that "either" was not used as part of the translation.
Then why did you put it ?
Explain !young man. -
That verse says either beat, leave, show (by way of example), etc.
There is the quote from the post. The only time you can accuse someone of "tampering with translations" is when there is no ambiguity. If there were quotation marks on "either" then you would have cause to do so. One would think the meaning is self-evident, but "that verse says" is a clear pointer to "daraba" given the context and "either" does not refer to the translation. If you replace the "verse" with "book", then it will have precisely the same meaning. The point being, the items in the list refer to the multiple meanings of the one word and not the existance of multiple words in the verse itself. Please exercise the benefit of the doubt in future, in other words, stop treating other muslims as an enemy, then you may actually end up being objective when posting.
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There is the quote from the post. The only time you can accuse someone of "tampering with translations" is when there is no ambiguity. If there were quotation marks on "either" then you would have cause to do so. One would think the meaning is self-evident, but "that verse says" is a clear pointer to "daraba" given the context and "either" does not refer to the translation. If you replace the "verse" with "book", then it will have precisely the same meaning. The point being, the items in the list refer to the multiple meanings of the one word and not the existance of multiple words in the verse itself. Please exercise the benefit of the doubt in future, in other words, stop treating other muslims as an enemy, then you may actually end up being objective when posting.
1Why did you realize that I am your enemy ? My answer is No.
I do not make small children my enemy rather I love them because my prophet (PBUH) advised so."He who does not respect elders and he does not love youngers is not from us".
I am sorry this sentence might stung you.(again excuse)
2I always muslims but get annoyed when see Quran tampering. ? Would n't you be upset if someone does Quran Tampering?Are you ready to condemn that person whosoever (of course without naming anyone) does this ?(Love of Quran is checked here) -
1Why did you realize that I am your enemy ? My answer is No.
I do not make small children my enemy rather I love them because my prophet (PBUH) advised so."He who does not respect elders and he does not love youngers is not from us".
I am sorry this sentence might stung you.(again excuse)
2I always muslims but get annoyed when see Quran tampering. ? Would n't you be upset if someone does Quran Tampering?Are you ready to condemn that person whosoever (of course without naming anyone) does this ?(Love of Quran is checked here)Please do not beat around the bush. Your tone is very accusatory and you are childishly jumping to conclusions in every thread, about "Quranists". For instance, "Genteel" is not a "Quranist" but you continue to spread falsehood/ignorance. So, there was no "stinging" (please remember that this is the internet, your words have no ulterior effects on anyone), but there was pure ignorance and failure to comprehend on your part.
2I always muslims but get annoyed when see Quran tampering. ? Would n't you be upset if someone does Quran Tampering?Are you ready to condemn that person whosoever (of course without naming anyone) does this ?(Love of Quran is checked here)
Perhaps it would be better for you to join an English class instead of accusing people without any knowledge on a predominantly English forum.
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Please do not beat around the bush. Your tone is very accusatory and you are childishly jumping to conclusions in every thread, about "Quranists". For instance, "Genteel" is not a "Quranist" but you continue to spread falsehood/ignorance. So, there was no "stinging" (please remember that this is the internet, your words have no ulterior effects on anyone), but there was pure ignorance and failure to comprehend on your part.
Perhaps it would be better for you to join an English class instead of accusing people without any knowledge on a predominantly English forum.
Honestly ,this forum is working as my class.
Are you ready to condemn an Quran tamperer ??Or not ?
If you have love for Quran ,you should say "yes" instantaneously.
You are ready to condemn Bukhari but not Quran tamperer .Strange this is love for Quran -
Honestly ,this forum is working as my class.
Are you ready to condemn an Quran tamperer ??Or not ?
If you have love for Quran ,you should say "yes" instantaneously.
You are ready to condemn Bukhari but not Quran tamperer .Strange this is love for QuranYes, I am ready to condemn anyone who tampers with the deen. The difference being that I keep my trap firmly shut until I have conclusive evidence.
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Yes, I am ready to condemn anyone who tampers with the deen. The difference being that I keep my trap firmly shut until I have conclusive evidence.
Very good my friend.Zinda baad
Now you are on right path.Remembe no one is above Deen.You use the more correct term.
The Quran tamperer have to be pinned down.
handshake -
Yes, the tamperers, and also those who make false accusations based on their own lack of knowledge in matters. )
handshake indeed.
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SHM, that's a reasonable thing except for the simple step in logic - how did you find "fear nushuz" to = "experienced"? Also, please explain how "experienced cheating" is shown in the Quran to mean "fear nushuz". There is no link as far as I see, fear comes prior to the act. As for "you must first experience cheating (adultery) in the past to even considered hitting you wife", presumeably Rashad Khalifa had no experience with domestic violence.
Fear comes period, before, and/or after and act. But God is talking about certains actions you should take base on the fear of your wife cheating. Now be logical, do you really think GOD will encourage a man to beat his wife as a last resort on a "hunch" without veritable information (1736, )? Do you think God will encourage a man to hit his wife when God hates aggression (2190)? Be logical.
Context is important when reading the Koran. Without context, you will follow your desires when reading the Koran.
IF I robbed you before OPF, would you instinctively fear me doing it again? If I stabbed you before, wouldn't you fear me doing it again instinctively? if i punch you or harmed you in any way, a human being will instinctively fear it again and protect him/herself from it again. If your spoused cheated on you before, wouldn't you fear her/him doing it again. Physiologically, many phobias are developed from past experience. To translated fear as "experience" stresses this fact. To translate 434 as "fear" nushuz is illogical when compared to other verses and its context (4128, 244). Remember, the Koran comes in context.
God prohibit a man from beating his wife, and does it with great wisdom.
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Fear comes period, before, and/or after and act. But God is talking about certains actions you should take base on the fear of your wife cheating. Now be logical, do you really think GOD will encourage a man to beat his wife as a last resort on a "hunch" without veritable information (1736, )? Do you think God will encourage a man to hit his wife when God hates aggression (2190)? Be logical.
Context is important when reading the Koran. Without context, you will follow your desires when reading the Koran.
IF I robbed you before OPF, would you instinctively fear me doing it again? If I stabbed you before, wouldn't you fear me doing it again instinctively? if i punch you or harmed you in any way, a human being will instinctively fear it again and protect him/herself from it again. If your spoused cheated on you before, wouldn't you fear her/him doing it again. Physiologically, many phobias are developed from past experience. To translated fear as "experience" stresses this fact. To translate 434 as "fear" nushuz is illogical when compared to other verses and its context (4128, 244). Remember, the Koran comes in context.
God prohibit a man from beating his wife, and does it with great wisdom.
Fear comes period, before, and/or after and act. But God is talking about certains actions you should take base on the fear of your wife cheating. Now be logical, do you really think GOD will encourage a man to beat his wife as a last resort on a "hunch" without veritable information (1736, )? Do you think God will encourage a man to hit his wife when God hates aggression (2190)? Be logical.
Exactly! ;D
Context is important when reading the Koran. Without context, you will follow your desires when reading the Koran.
Correct, again.
IF I robbed you before OPF, would you instinctively fear me doing it again? If I stabbed you before, wouldn't you fear me doing it again instinctively? if i punch you or harmed you in any way, a human being will instinctively fear it again and protect him/herself from it again. If your spoused cheated on you before, wouldn't you fear her/him doing it again. Physiologically, many phobias are developed from past experience. To translated fear as "experience" stresses this fact. To translate 434 as "fear" nushuz is illogical when compared to other verses and its context (4128, 244). Remember, the Koran comes in context.
I will have to check. However, clearly God commands, not prohibits a man to daraba his wife.
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People, please remember the the Quran is the word of a being claiming to be the MOST meriful, kind, and Compassionate. This means the most kind and meciful thing you can EVER do to a human being is not even equal and comparable to what God can merficully do.
If you fail to interpret His words in the Koran (or any other scripture) from this perceptive of a mercful God, you miss the essence of the message. God doesn't want you to beat you wife, be logical (3021). The Koran has a context, you cannot isolate a verse and except to find absolute meaning.