Are Progressive Muslims Demolishing Islam?
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I agree and this is because of reason of rejection of Quranic Ayas e.g.Quran Said
459
(459) Believers! Obey Allah and obey the Messenger, and those from among you who are invested with authority; and then if you were to dispute among yourselves about anything refer it to Allah and the Messenger *89 if you indeed believe in Allah and the Last Day; that is better and more commendable in the end.And we have abandoned this quranic teaching.
salam all
Isn't it supposed that some hadith are 100% from the prophet, that some are even from God, and that a muslim has to follow these hadith in order to "obey" the messenger?
If not what is the "obey the messenger" if it's not "through" hadith??
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Actually I find many of the 'free thinkers' here are not free thinkers at all. They have simply exchanged one dogma for another one and are just as convinced that only they are right - as the 'Sunnis' they constantly mock.
You are going down this road again...
-Define 'free thinker'
-Everyone thinks THEY are right.
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Salam,
You are going down this road again...
-Define 'free thinker'
-Everyone thinks THEY are right.
It would be helpful next time if you would please add the link to the quote you post. I had to search around to see who said this.
Actually I find many of the 'free thinkers' here are not free thinkers at all. They have simply exchanged one dogma for another one and are just as convinced that only they are right - as the 'Sunnis' they constantly mock.
In defense of Shakira. .. is he-she wrong in saying that?
There is a difference between "thinking" one is write, "knowning" and then acting to "know" one is right... whichever you choose.. many decisions and thoughts are based on much more than meets the eye.. experience a major factor... we create laws and truths through false mannors and then propose that they concrete and right etc.. this is in fact yet another falesy of the human condition which works against coming to "understand" Truth as a whole...
Meaning, once a system is accepted.. then many times (note not everytime time) the preciever becomes locked into that system therefore blocks themselves from the ability to freely think. These "systems" include much of our daily activities and cover much of our daily thoughts.
So in retrospect, I would think those who "think" they are right are more intersting to conversate with then those who act like they "know" they are right. Unfortunatly there is not enough room on this board or any board.. if all the oceans were ink and trees pens.. there still would not be enough to ... ... .... ... those who Know will understand the rest.
peace.
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I know there are many aspects on the mainstream religion that needs to be reevaluated, but are Progress Muslims demolishing Islam by blatantly and subjectively rejecting any elements of Islam simply because it an traditional view point (for example ritual salat, zakat, etc)?
I cannot follow your thinking dude..
How can one demolish "Islam"?
What is "Islam" anyway?
Is it a building or a physical construct that can be demolish?Salam
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Peace be upon you Genteel.
Hey Kyle, I'm not sure how Islam can be destroyed to experience islam? In any case, I'm all for it to get rid of blind faith altogether but the only major obstacle hindering such a path would be "holy books" if not our six senses. What say you?
Islam the title must be demolished because it is a sect, islam the behavior must be developed for the benefits to be reaped.
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Hello Kyle,
How do you understand by stating "Islam the title" and "islam the behaviour"? What significant change would an i bring over an I ?
Peace!
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Hello Kyle,
How do you understand by stating "Islam the title" and "islam the behaviour"? What significant change would an i bring over an I ?
Peace!
Islam by title = Islam in word and word alone
Islam by deeds = Islam by action.A = hypocrite.
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Salam,
How do you understand by stating "Islam the title" and "islam the behaviour"? What significant change would an i bring over an I ?
I think this is a very good point. If I remember right, someone brought up the point before that in the Arabic language there are no capitol and small letters. This could be a starting point on why we see the ideas of those like idolfree1 being the way they are. The notions brought by the thought process of & by idolfree1, as I read them, are living in duality.
This duality that is brought about by ideas such as Kyle's creates seperation. As we already see here in OPF's post
Islam by title = Islam in word and word alone
Islam by deeds = Islam by action.
A = hypocrite.This idea is nothing new. As a matter of fact it shows the decay of this so called "progressive movement". It is the same ideas spouted by so called traditionalists that now we see coming from so called "reformist" and "progressives".
This mind set brought about are only deceptions of the one we've been warned about time and time again in the Quran. That which continues to seperate human kind. This seperation is done through the drunkeness of a given movenment. The unfortunate part is it might have took so called traditional Islam many many years to come to the drunkeness of power, but it is taking the so called "progressive" movement much less time and the process is just about instantaneous.
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Salam,
I think this is a very good point. If I remember right, someone brought up the point before that in the Arabic language there are no capitol and small letters. This could be a starting point on why we see the ideas of those like idolfree1 being the way they are. The notions brought by the thought process of & by idolfree1, as I read them, are living in duality.
This duality that is brought about by ideas such as Kyle's creates seperation. As we already see here in OPF's post
This idea is nothing new. As a matter of fact it shows the decay of this so called "progressive movement". It is the same ideas spouted by so called traditionalists that now we see coming from so called "reformist" and "progressives".
This mind set brought about are only deceptions of the one we've been warned about time and time again in the Quran. That which continues to seperate human kind. This seperation is done through the drunkeness of a given movenment. The unfortunate part is it might have took so called traditional Islam many many years to come to the drunkeness of power, but it is taking the so called "progressive" movement much less time and the process is just about instantaneous.
You are correct, the Quran makes a good doorstop, doesn't it? )
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Maybe instead of rolling your eyes and making condensending comment, you can simply post how your position differs from the traditionalist mindset?
peace
I don't know what "traditionalist mindset" you are talking about, all I am saying is that people who are "Muslim" by name only are hypocrites.
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I don't know what "traditionalist mindset" you are talking about, all I am saying is that people who are "Muslim" by name only are hypocrites.
The same judgemental mindset that compells to create sites as this very one yet which has succeeded to only recreate the same mind-set.
So what is your definition of those who are "Muslim" by name only? How do you judge?
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The same judgemental mindset that compells to create sites as this very one yet which has succeeded to only recreate the same mind-set.
So what is your definition of those who are "Muslim" by name only? How do you judge?
Muslim by name as in calling oneself a muslim, but not following through with actions. Is it really hard?
So anyway, can you define "traditional mindset"? No dancing around the question please. A direct answer, or "I don't know".
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Muslim by name as in calling oneself a muslim, but not following through with actions. Is it really hard?
So anyway, can you define "traditional mindset"? No dancing around the question please. A direct answer, or "I don't know".OPF, the "traditional mindset" within the context of these posts that I'm talking about are those which compelled this very site to be started! The mind-set that stems from certain aspects which is embodied in articles of this site such as "5 Pillar Myth", "Submitters (Muslims) Vs. Believers (Mumins)", along with countless threads and posts against traditional mind-set of those who follow hadith, goto mecca etc etc etc~! Such as "Muslims according to 'tradition'"- (Submitters Vs. Believers).. This defines "tradition" as per the ideas spouted by this site thus my definition of "traditional mind-set in the context of my posts on this thread. This is why I believe that even though this site came about from going against this so called "traditional mind-set" it is suceeding to only re-create it. This re-creation is done by ideas that you, OPF, have spouted by seperating muslims into
Islam by title = Islam in word and word alone
Islam by deeds = Islam by action.
A = hypocrite.So I simply would like to know how do you judge?? So, using your own words, OPF, please stop "dancing around" my question What is your definition of those who are "Muslim" by name only? How do you judge?
You answer being
Muslim by name as in calling oneself a muslim, but not following through with actions. Is it really hard?
-----> )
Apparently it is "really hard" for you to answer a simple question. Actions?? What actions.. how do you judge?? Since you opened the door by spouting about Islam of actions and Islam by words.. I would think that you must be some sort of authority on the subject. So, How do you judge?peace
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Salaam,
What is a muslim and why? Where did the term come from? How long have 'muslims' been around?
I've often said that the english dictionary definition of a muslim is sufficiant for me. The reason is when we look at the definition it states (2nd definition)
- an adherent of Islam. (ditionary.com)
To me this is sufficiant. At the same I understand the opposition to such plain definition that others have had on this site who say these basics "english" definitions are not sufficiant to describe such things. However for this particulare word, muslim, I believe it is. If we go further into the definition we have to naturally understand what Islam is aswell. When we look up the word, Islam, in the dictionary we can start to see how the plain english definition starts to fail
Is?lam 1. the religious faith of Muslims, based on the words and religious system founded by the prophet Muhammad and taught by the Koran, the basic principle of which is absolute submission to a unique and personal god, Allah. (dictionary.com)
We all know well enough that the Prophet Muhammad did not invent nor "founded" Islam. So even though the english definition of the term Islam leaves much to be desired, the definition of Muslim is still correct in the way that a Muslim adheres to Islam.
After the common understanding of Islam from the actual term itself, we understand that it is peaceful submission to God etc.. So a Muslim being an adherent of Islam is one who submits their will peacefully to Allah.
I do not know the actual and factual origin of the term Muslim but do believe it is an arabic word. And Muslims have been around, in Quranic terms, since Adam.
What I posted above, and did so very simplistically for you, is the common understanding of the term. For myself, the term has meant something since I've been very little.
My first language was farsi. In farsi we say, "mosalmoon" for muslim. I remember everytime I heard "mosalmoon" I would always associate the term with "mazloom" and "mazloom" meaning innocent. So for me the term has always had that connotation to it. When I put it all together, meaning my own understanding of the term and the common understanding it all comes together with the same results. So a Muslim is innocent because they submit their will to Allah and it comes from the begining and end of the human life term and has been around for as long as there has been human conciousness that requires such a thing as language to define the world around them.
Innocence is key.
Surah 1670. It is Allah who creates you and takes your souls at death; and of you there are some who are sent back to a feeble age, so that they know nothing after having known (much) for Allah is All-Knowing, All-Powerful.
I pray this helps answer you questions.
peace