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  4. 4:48 and 4:116

4:48 and 4:116

Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved General Issues / Questions
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  • A Offline
    A Offline
    arnoldyasin
    wrote on last edited by
    #21

    Dear Leoxyz, Salaam Aleikum,

    1. I just made a quick commentary as a suggestion. I am at work and do not have access to my dictionaries. So I only gave a short description of the word and root meaning.

    2. A person can protect itself by following the revelation, thus the person comes INTO the Protection of Allah, thus it is Allah who is doing the protecting. Just as a person can be forgiven if it follows the revelation, and thus comes into the Forgiveness of Allah, and again it is Allah who forgives, not the person.

    3. I am not a Quranist or any label except Muslim, just as you refuse a label except Muslim. I do not reject history, but I do not see it as Divine either. I am very carefull with what I accept or reject when it comes to history. Obeying the messenger in my eyes referes to political obedience. I believe the downfall of Muslims was because of making man-recorded history an interpretation as divine. So for example, I do believe in Zaid the adopted son of the Prophet, but I believe Zaid in the Quran is used as John Doe as it was used in Classic Arabic.

    4. I study Arabic at the Islamic University of Rotterdam and I am still a student. Never claimed to be a master in Arabic, just a student.

    5. Your behaviour on this forum is very unprofessionel and is in many ways the opposite of how the Quran demands behaviour and how the Prophet would act as far as history tells us. And yes, I do not reject history and the wisdom in it.

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    • L Offline
      L Offline
      Leoxyz
      wrote on last edited by
      #22

      Dear Leoxyz, Salaam Aleikum,

      1. I just made a quick commentary as a suggestion. I am at work and do not have access to my dictionaries. So I only gave a short description of the word and root meaning.

      2. A person can protect itself by following the revelation, thus the person comes INTO the Protection of Allah, thus it is Allah who is doing the protecting. Just as a person can be forgiven if it follows the revelation, and thus comes into the Forgiveness of Allah, and again it is Allah who forgives, not the person.

      3. I am not a Quranist or any label except Muslim, just as you refuse a label except Muslim. I do not reject history, but I do not see it as Divine either. I am very carefull with what I accept or reject when it comes to history. Obeying the messenger in my eyes referes to political obedience. I believe the downfall of Muslims was because of making man-recorded history an interpretation as divine. So for example, I do believe in Zaid the adopted son of the Prophet, but I believe Zaid in the Quran is used as John Doe as it was used in Classic Arabic.

      4. I study Arabic at the Islamic University of Rotterdam and I am still a student. Never claimed to be a master in Arabic, just a student.

      5. Your behaviour on this forum is very unprofessionel and is in many ways the opposite of how the Quran demands behaviour and how the Prophet would act as far as history tells us. And yes, I do not reject history and the wisdom in it.

      If you knew ABC of arabic you would not have comitted such type of blunders ,my dear Arnold.
      Had I seen such things first time ,the things would have been different at all.
      I know instead accepting the "BLUNDER " by your Greatest scholar of this time (Author of QXP) ,you tried to support it.Don't you know that "ma3toof/ma3toof Alai have same Case sign when under one effect."??
      When I see this much arabic knowledge and your attempt to bash Bukhari ,and other scholars ,I want to strike head against wall.
      One of your friend said that dual of "Qiblatun" is not possible.
      Don't you think it is height of ignorance .
      With this much knowledge you people attack the interpreters.Don't you??
      When your faults are pointed out ,you people call it unprofessional.
      Right ???
      Anyway that is good thing that you are learning knowledge.I appreciate and will keep on waiting till you are a real scholar and I will learn something from you.Because I am also very fond of learning arabic.
      Yes one word of appreciation Your website.May allah Bless you .
      I was in need of "aqrabul mawarid" I got it from there.My personal and friendly thanks.
      handshake handshake

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      • A Offline
        A Offline
        arnoldyasin
        wrote on last edited by
        #23

        Salaam Aleikum,

        I know instead accepting the "BLUNDER " by your Greatest scholar of this time (Author of QXP)

        If you would study my material, you would see I disagree many times with Dr.Shabbir on many issues. I learned a lot from him, as I did and do from many different scholars, traditional or modern. I only follow my best of knowledge and the Quran.

        you tried to support it.

        Did I ever say I supported it? I posted only his reply he made a year ago to a similair question. You requested an answer from him and I gave it. I am still researching what is correct or not, my level of Arabic is not sufficient yet to judge this situation correctly.

        But I know you don't care, you just want to bash and bash, make false claims, generalize and so on. If you really want to teach people, use a different attitude.

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        • M Offline
          M Offline
          mz
          wrote on last edited by
          #24

          Salaams Samia,All,

          Whether you believe there is 1 God or 10 Gods does it make any difference? Not at all- i think!

          Although i do believe their is a life force of a sort that is propagating all this.

          Is Allah = God . no way.

          Can or do people ever forgive hypocrisy of/ in their relationships, or will it always be a black mark on a hypocrite?

          448
          (44 Surely Allah does not forgive that a partner be ascribed to Him, *79 although He forgives any other sins for whomever He wills. *80 He who associates anyone with Allah in His divinity has indeed forged a mighty lie and committed an awesome sin.

          Surely Their relationship does not forgive when they are hypocrites- in their relationships and forgives other then that whom it will and whoever associates in their relationship indeed he has devised a sin tremendous.

          6148
          Those who give partners (to Allah) will say "If Allah had wished, we should not have given partners to Him nor would our fathers; nor should we have had any taboos." So did their ancestors argue falsely, until they tasted of our wrath? Say "Have ye any (certain) knowledge? If so, produce it before us. Ye follow nothing but conjecture ye do nothing but lie."

          According to 6148 the mushriks face wrath on earth because of their shirk, why aren't the Christians and all other mushriks facing wrath?

          But if you was a hypocrite ? when you are found out you do face wrath in every community- I think, as 8148 is saying, don't you?

          Just my view.

          God Bless.

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          • E Offline
            E Offline
            Elke
            wrote on last edited by
            #25

            Peace mz,

            could you elaborate please. Do i understand right that you say allah is not god but relationship ?

            lk

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            • S Offline
              S Offline
              Samia
              wrote on last edited by
              #26

              Salaams Samia,All,

              6148
              Those who give partners (to Allah) will say "If Allah had wished, we should not have given partners to Him nor would our fathers; nor should we have had any taboos." So did their ancestors argue falsely, until they tasted of our wrath? Say "Have ye any (certain) knowledge? If so, produce it before us. Ye follow nothing but conjecture ye do nothing but lie."

              According to 6148 the mushriks face wrath on earth because of their shirk, why aren't the Christians and all other mushriks facing wrath?

              But if you was a hypocrite ? when you are found out you do face wrath in every community- I think, as 8148 is saying, don't you?

              Just my view.

              God Bless.

              Salaam mz

              My understanding of the verse is that past nations were punished on earth, but we do not see anymore punishment, perhaps because there are no more whole communities that are sinning because of the already ingrained divine laws that became universal. They will pay in the hereafter.

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              • M Offline
                M Offline
                mz
                wrote on last edited by
                #27

                Salaams Elke, Samia,

                Yes Elke I don't think Allah is name at all - just like in Judaism . God is one who has no name.

                Shirk in a relationship say when a husband cheats a wife, or a business partner cheats his partner, or a brother looks with an evil intent at say his sister e.t.c

                all these and other things similar are unforgivable- i think, as the particular relationship doesn't allow for that......

                Salaam mz

                My understanding of the verse is that past nations were punished on earth, but we do not see anymore punishment, perhaps because there are no more whole communities that are sinning because of the already ingrained divine laws that became universal. They will pay in the hereafter.

                And dear Samia as the ayah is saying the people where punished for professing multiple gods, and you are aware the whole community of Christians believe in the trinity - isn't that the same?

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                • L Offline
                  L Offline
                  Leoxyz
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #28

                  Salaam Aleikum,

                  I am still researching what is correct or not my level of Arabic is not sufficient yet to judge this situation correctly.

                  , make false claims generalize and so on. If you really want to teach people, use a different attitude.

                  Dear Arnold

                  I am still researching what is correct or not

                  Doesn't it look very strange ???

                  make false claims

                  I need just one example for it.I will apologize for that false claim.

                  Otherwise I take it as false accusation which is again showing a particular mindset.{ who is poor Bukhari}

                  generalize

                  Yes I have felt certain things in common.When your "Guru" can tamper the Quran ,why not the followers?

                  If you really want to teach people, use a different attitude.

                  How can I teach? I myself is a learner.Had I sufficient knowledge I would not have wandered from place to place to learn.
                  Teachers are only the "Zamakhsharis" of the time who have declared whole Quran as "metaphoric"

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                  • N Offline
                    N Offline
                    nadeem
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #29

                    Peace Samia,

                    Very good questions.

                    I believe that "Believing" and "doing good" is the same thing. I do not believe in an oral manifestation of belief; anything oral in this regard is little but a claim. I believe that the true marker of "belief" is "good works". One who does good works, then, IS a "believer". He DOES believe in the 'Judge' detailed by the Quran, otherwise he would stay miles away from good works. When a person orally denies the Quran, but practically embraces it, then practice should take precedence, and vice versa.

                    I think our language and use of words has made "god a dirty word". It's all about saying and claiming belief in this empty concept called "god". Today, simply say "I believe in God" and suddenly everyone counts you a believer. No one seems to care about your deeds or doings, or what you put in this rather godforsaken concept of "god", they just find the sentence "I believe in God" to be so awfully delightful to their ears.

                    I think the Quran is wiser than this. In fact, I know.

                    Some claim that god will magically waste the good works of the one who's lips never spat out those four delicious words "I believe in God", but I cannot find this to be Quranically sound. I read from the Quran that the works of the rejecter will be wasted, not because of lacking lip service, but because their works were intrinsically worthless. The rejecter focuses his efforts on works that result in pleasure in this worldly life, THATS why he's a rejecter in the first place(!), and the quran repeatedly says that such works carry no value in the afterlife. THATS why a rejecter's works are wasted, not because god is discriminating.

                    Peace,

                    Nadeem

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                    • E Offline
                      E Offline
                      Elke
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #30

                      Peace mz,

                      the principle of what you state does make sense. But how did you get from allah to relationship ? Sorry if i require spoonfeeding.

                      lk

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                      • A Offline
                        A Offline
                        arnoldyasin
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #31

                        I need just one example for it.I will apologize for that false claim.

                        When your "Guru"

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                        • M Offline
                          M Offline
                          mz
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #32

                          Salaams Elke,

                          http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=14336.0

                          Using lanes and QD.

                          Line1266 Ittakhathoo ahbarahumwaruhbanahum arbaban min dooni Allahi waalmaseehaibna maryama wama omiroo illa liyaAAbudoo ilahanwahidan la ilaha illa huwa subhanahuAAamma yushrikoona

                          They take their priests and their anchorites to be their lords in derogation of Allah, and (they take as their Lord) Christ the son of Mary; yet they were commanded to worship but One Allah there is no god but He. Praise and glory to Him (Far is He) from having the partners they associate (with Him).

                          Took their priests/delighting and their anchorites/fears to be their source besides their/His relationship and messiah son of Marry and not they were commanded but to serve their visible state of relationship one nothing of prominence but it- to endeavor to- from what they associate.

                          Here i think they should have also listened to mesiah son of Mary aswell- the ayah is about his time, if i am not mistaken.

                          God Bless.

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                          • M Offline
                            M Offline
                            maxq
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #33

                            I can't remember the sign right now but I believe that there is something about the deeds of rejecters being wasted.
                            la'an ashrakta laya7baTanna 3amaluk (surah zumar I think but do not know exact location of the verse)

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                            • U Offline
                              U Offline
                              unknownuser
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #34

                              Quote from ayman on August 29, 2007, 091053 PM
                              I can't remember the sign right now but I believe that there is something about the deeds of rejecters being wasted.

                              la'an ashrakta laya7baTanna 3amaluk (surah zumar I think but do not know exact location of the verse)

                              al-A`raf (The Heights, The Elevated Places) 7147
                              7147


                              Waallatheena kaththaboo bi-ayatina waliqa-i al-akhirati habitat aAAmaluhum hal yujzawna illa ma kanoo yaAAmaloona

                              Literal And those who denied with Our verses/evidences, and the end's (other life's) meeting, their deeds (were) wasted; are they being rewarded/reimbursed except (for) what they were making/doing?

                              Question at end of verse alludes to ?their deeds? as not being good; else verses 2789-90 apply.

                              Peace

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                              • L Offline
                                L Offline
                                Leoxyz
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #35

                                Quote from ayman on August 29, 2007, 091053 PM
                                I can't remember the sign right now but I believe that there is something about the deeds of rejecters being wasted.

                                al-A`raf (The Heights, The Elevated Places) 7147
                                7147


                                Waallatheena kaththaboo bi-ayatina waliqa-i al-akhirati habitat aAAmaluhum hal yujzawna illa ma kanoo yaAAmaloona

                                Literal And those who denied with Our verses/evidences, and the end's (other life's) meeting, their deeds (were) wasted; are they being rewarded/reimbursed except (for) what they were making/doing?

                                Question at end of verse alludes to ?their deeds? as not being good; else verses 2789-90 apply.

                                Peace

                                Glad to see that you have started putting arabic text of the Quranic aya yeah

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                                • U Offline
                                  U Offline
                                  unknownuser
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #36

                                  Glad to see that you have started putting arabic text of the Quranic aya yeah

                                  What are you the Taliban of free-minds? LOL

                                  OK sure; here you go in ORIGINAL form and in context verses 7142-151?

                                  http//noblequran.com/mp3/007_Al-Araf_142-151_030326.mp3

                                  Remember something about being illiterate.

                                  peace

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                                  • S Offline
                                    S Offline
                                    Samia
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #37

                                    What are you the Taliban of free-minds? LOL

                                    peace

                                    rotfl

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                                    • S Offline
                                      S Offline
                                      Samia
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #38

                                      Peace Samia,

                                      Very good questions.

                                      I believe that "Believing" and "doing good" is the same thing. I do not believe in an oral manifestation of belief; anything oral in this regard is little but a claim. I believe that the true marker of "belief" is "good works". One who does good works, then, IS a "believer". He DOES believe in the 'Judge' detailed by the Quran, otherwise he would stay miles away from good works. When a person orally denies the Quran, but practically embraces it, then practice should take precedence, and vice versa.

                                      I think our language and use of words has made "god a dirty word". It's all about saying and claiming belief in this empty concept called "god". Today, simply say "I believe in God" and suddenly everyone counts you a believer. No one seems to care about your deeds or doings, or what you put in this rather godforsaken concept of "god", they just find the sentence "I believe in God" to be so awfully delightful to their ears.

                                      I think the Quran is wiser than this. In fact, I know.

                                      Some claim that god will magically waste the good works of the one who's lips never spat out those four delicious words "I believe in God", but I cannot find this to be Quranically sound. I read from the Quran that the works of the rejecter will be wasted, not because of lacking lip service, but because their works were intrinsically worthless. The rejecter focuses his efforts on works that result in pleasure in this worldly life, THATS why he's a rejecter in the first place(!), and the quran repeatedly says that such works carry no value in the afterlife. THATS why a rejecter's works are wasted, not because god is discriminating.

                                      Peace,

                                      Nadeem

                                      Thanks Nadeem. You just put my thoughts in words. I have been thinking too whether believing means doing good.

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                                      • S Offline
                                        S Offline
                                        Samia
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #39

                                        Salaams Elke, Samia,

                                        And dear Samia as the ayah is saying the people where punished for professing multiple gods, and you are aware the whole community of Christians believe in the trinity - isn't that the same?

                                        The majority, if not all, of Christians were born christians. They did not choose to be christians. It's just a lable, but they do not necessarily act accordingly (act as idolators), and those who thought actively about it rejected religions altogether. If I or you were born to christian families, most probably we would have been christians. Even those who think they believe in one God could be practicing idolatory. Idolatory, like believing, is behaviour more than lip service

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                                        • I Offline
                                          I Offline
                                          ignoramus
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #40

                                          salam

                                          where does this leave someone who does not ostensibly worship anything, but is withal a doer of good?

                                          salam

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