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  4. 4:48 and 4:116

4:48 and 4:116

Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved General Issues / Questions
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  • E Offline
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    Elke
    wrote on last edited by
    #61

    That is true .
    Why to discuss Quranic verses when these are
    -Fully detailed
    -Clear
    -Explained
    Is reading the Holy Quran not sufficient ?

    Peace leo

    how about understanding them ?

    lk

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      Leoxyz
      wrote on last edited by
      #62

      Peace leo

      how about understanding them ?

      lk

      This is what I want to know.It is you people who go on harping that Holy Quran is
      -Detailed
      -Explained
      -Clear
      It is you people who should answer it not me.
      Is it not so??

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        Samia
        wrote on last edited by
        #63

        Why it is so that whatever Quranists say ,they do not act accordingly??
        Why this double policy ?? I have not been able to understand.

        I am not a learned person.What I have learnt from this scholarly forum is that Holy Quran is a ,well explained book ,very clear book but still I see
        -explanations going on
        -difference of opinion
        Is the explanation of the Quran insufficient or defective (ma3zallah) that you are further explaining it?
        Just confused

        I am trying to help you understand and answer your querry. My answer depends on whether you were really asking or just being sarcastic. Is this too much to answer?

        Also, do you mean before coming to this forum you did not believe/know that the quran was well explained, detailed and clear?

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          Leoxyz
          wrote on last edited by
          #64

          I am trying to help you understand and answer your querry. My answer depends on whether you were really asking or just being sarcastic. Is this too much to answer?

          Also, do you mean before coming to this forum you did not believe/know that the quran was well explained, detailed and clear?

          Madam
          I am telling you I am not a learned person.When I came to this forum I came across many time some verses which stated that
          -Quran is detailed
          -Quran is explained
          -Quran is clear.
          But along with it I see many explanantion over and above the Quran going on side by side.
          Is the explanation of the quran insufficient or defective ? Ma3aazallah
          Or You people are more learned than the Quran itself ?
          Why this contradiction in speech and action ?? I mean double standard.

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            Elke
            wrote on last edited by
            #65

            This is what I want to know.It is you people who go on harping that Holy Quran is
            -Detailed
            -Explained
            -Clear
            It is you people who should answer it not me.
            Is it not so??

            Peace leo,
            it is not us people (whatever) that claim this but the quran itself.
            No if in order to understand quran you need hadith in order to feel confortable, why not.
            I'd just say that they are not the only explanations available and imo they are not divine by any means just as are the explanations you might find in our discussions. They will always only be human understanding. You don't need to be a learned person for that, just willing to think for yourself.

            Az-Zumar - 39.18 . Who hear advice and follow the best thereof . Such are those whom Allah guideth , and such are men of understanding .

            lk

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              Samia
              wrote on last edited by
              #66

              Is the explanation of the quran insufficient or defective ? Ma3aazallah
              Or You people are more learned than the Quran itself ?
              Why this contradiction in speech and action ?? I mean double standard.

              I do not know why you answer in circles and in questions, whn I really do not know if these questions are genuine or sarcasm.

              I will presume from this part that you believe that the quran explains itself, and you wonder why we still discuss.

              The answer is that for centuries and until now on this very forum, we (muslims) were not told that the quraan explains itself, but we were told that we needed hadith and tafseer of scholars for that (and many more stuff). Since young age and primary school that's what we have been taught. We have a lot of luggage to get rid off and a lot of "detox" to do. Even the meaning of some of the quraan words were distorted to accommodate for that old understanding. People take years to get over a bad habit while being supported by family, friends and authority. We are doing our own riddance of bad habits against all odds. And you are still surprised why we are still discussing?

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                ijaz
                wrote on last edited by
                #67

                I do not know why you answer in circles and in questions, whn I really do not know if these questions are genuine or sarcasm.

                I will presume from this part that you believe that the quran explains itself, and you wonder why we still discuss.

                The answer is that for centuries and until now on this very forum, we (muslims) were not told that the quraan explains itself, but we were told that we needed hadith and tafseer of scholars for that (and many more stuff). Since young age and primary school that's what we have been taught. We have a lot of luggage to get rid off and a lot of "detox" to do. Even the meaning of some of the quraan words were distorted to accommodate for that old understanding. People take years to get over a bad habit while being supported by family, friends and authority. We are doing our own riddance of bad habits against all odds. And you are still surprised why we are still discussing?

                Salaam Samia,

                You have professed above that Quran explains it self then perhaps you could explain two things in the Quran, who was Abu Laheb and who is God refering to in the big lie incidence without using Hadith.

                And I agree Quran explains itself, but how is the question for you?

                Regards

                Ijaz

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                  Navid
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #68

                  Why it is so that whatever Quranists say ,they do not act accordingly??
                  Why this double policy ?? I have not been able to understand.

                  I am not a learned person.What I have learnt from this scholarly forum is that Holy Quran is a ,well explained book ,very clear book but still I see
                  -explanations going on
                  -difference of opinion
                  Is the explanation of the Quran insufficient or defective (ma3zallah) that you are further explaining it?
                  Just confused

                  Do you not understand this simple logic? Very sad. Firstly, you are mocking the quran by sarcastically saying "it's clearly explained, complete" as if it doesn't really say that.

                  Because the quran is complete, cites every example, is clearly explained (AS IT STATES), we cannot have any discussions about it? Or perhaps it IS clearly explained (AS IT STATES) and we discuss concepts to gain the best understanding at our own individual level. It saying it is clearly explained is not synonymous with every single verse/sign being objective and disallowing any interpretation.

                  The difference is that you follow MAN-MADE works OUTSIDE of the quran as religious guidance. Period. That's it. We, on the other hand, do not. Please, at least take one step and accept the situation for what it is. You follow man for divine guidance. This shouldn't be surprising for someone who refers to men as "Holy" and still has the nerve to call other people kafirs? Truly hilarious.

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                    ijaz
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #69

                    Do you not understand this simple logic? Very sad. Firstly, you are mocking the quran by sarcastically saying "it's clearly explained, complete" as if it doesn't really say that.

                    Because the quran is complete, cites every example, is clearly explained (AS IT STATES), we cannot have any discussions about it? Or perhaps it IS clearly explained (AS IT STATES) and we discuss concepts to gain the best understanding at our own individual level. It saying it is clearly explained is not synonymous with every single verse/sign being objective and disallowing any interpretation.

                    The difference is that you follow MAN-MADE works OUTSIDE of the quran as religious guidance. Period. That's it. We, on the other hand, do not. Please, at least take one step and accept the situation for what it is. You follow man for divine guidance. This shouldn't be surprising for someone who refers to men as "Holy" and still has the nerve to call other people kafirs? Truly hilarious.

                    Salaam Navid,

                    I understand Leo's point of view and I understand you. Regarding Leo there have been many post which were not able to resolve the questions from the Quran by the Quran, two of those I mentioned above who was Abu Laheb and who is God talking about in the Quran regarding "Big Lie", this is a minute example, there are many more Quran is full of this.

                    The answer to resolving this issue is the usage of miracle of 19, but most people object to this including Samia..

                    I have a database of queries resolved by 19 based codes which otherwise would not have been able to resolve..

                    Regards

                    Ijaz

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                      Navid
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #70

                      Salaam Navid,

                      I understand Leo's point of view and I understand you. Regarding Leo there have been many post which were not able to resolve the questions from the Quran by the Quran, two of those I mentioned above who was Abu Laheb and who is God talking about in the Quran regarding "Big Lie", this is a minute example, there are many more Quran is full of this.

                      The answer to resolving this issue is the usage of miracle of 19, but most people object to this including Samia..

                      I have a database of queries resolved by 19 based codes which otherwise would not have been able to resolve..

                      Regards

                      Ijaz

                      I understand, not everything that every existed in the universe is not going to be mentioned in the quran. That's Leo's argument. Hadith gives detail x, y, z. Quran doesn't. Therefore, we need hadith. Do you see the circular logic?

                      If any detail regarding anything that someone personally desires is not in the quran, it does not mean the quran is not complete. It is complete, everything we need for our guidance or anything regarding laws in the deen is in the quran. We cannot add on to this.

                      Peace

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                        ijaz
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #71

                        I understand, not everything that every existed in the universe is not going to be mentioned in the quran. That's Leo's argument. Hadith gives detail x, y, z. Quran doesn't. Therefore, we need hadith. Do you see the circular logic?

                        If any detail regarding anything that someone personally desires is not in the quran, it does not mean the quran is not complete. It is complete, everything we need for our guidance or anything regarding laws in the deen is in the quran. We cannot add on to this.

                        Peace

                        Salaam Navid,

                        What ever is mentioned in the Quran should be able to be defined by the Quran, only then the Quran is complete and fully detailed by definition of these two words. Both Abu Laheb and Big Lie is mentioned in the Quran.

                        My database from Quran about Quran..

                        Regards

                        Ijaz

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                          Leoxyz
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #72

                          Peace leo,
                          it is not us people (whatever) that claim this but the quran itself.
                          No if in order to understand quran you need hadith in order to feel confortable, why not.
                          I'd just say that they are not the only explanations available and imo they are not divine by any means just as are the explanations you might find in our discussions. They will always only be human understanding. You don't need to be a learned person for that, just willing to think for yourself.

                          Az-Zumar - 39.18 . Who hear advice and follow the best thereof . Such are those whom Allah guideth , and such are men of understanding .

                          lk

                          I do not know why Quranists always circumvent the question.
                          Where do Hadith come in ??
                          I repeat my question
                          Quran says and Quranists repeatedly post these verses tha Quran is
                          -Detailed
                          -Explained
                          -Clear
                          Why do Quranists need to explain it an already fully explained ,easy and clear book terms?
                          Do they think that Quran's explanations are defective or insufficient so that need further extra Quranic explanations ??

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                            Leoxyz
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #73

                            I do not know why you answer in circles and in questions, whn I really do not know if these questions are genuine or sarcasm.

                            I will presume from this part that you believe that the quran explains itself, and you wonder why we still discuss.

                            The answer is that for centuries and until now on this very forum, we (muslims) were not told that the quraan explains itself, but we were told that we needed hadith and tafseer of scholars for that (and many more stuff). Since young age and primary school that's what we have been taught. We have a lot of luggage to get rid off and a lot of "detox" to do. Even the meaning of some of the quraan words were distorted to accommodate for that old understanding. People take years to get over a bad habit while being supported by family, friends and authority. We are doing our own riddance of bad habits against all odds. And you are still surprised why we are still discussing?

                            Do not touch Tafseers or Hadiths or extraQuranic material.
                            Just read out verses .No need to explain.Those are already fully explained.

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                              Leoxyz
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #74

                              Do you not understand this simple logic? Very sad. Firstly, you are mocking the quran by sarcastically saying "it's clearly explained, complete" as if it doesn't really say that.
                              Because the quran is complete, cites every example, is clearly explained (AS IT STATES), we cannot have any discussions about it? Or perhaps it IS clearly explained (AS IT STATES) and we discuss concepts to gain the best understanding at our own individual level. It saying it is clearly explained is not synonymous with every single verse/sign being objective and disallowing any interpretation.

                              The difference is that you follow MAN-MADE works OUTSIDE of the quran as religious guidance. Period. That's it. We, on the other hand, do not. Please, at least take one step and accept the situation for what it is. You follow man for divine guidance. This shouldn't be surprising for someone who refers to men as "Holy" and still has the nerve to call other people kafirs? Truly hilarious.

                              It is not I who is "mocking the Quran" rather those are mocking the Quran by trying to explain an already fully explained book.
                              When do we need to explain a thing?? Naturally when we do not understand it.
                              The correct method is ,just read out verses.Do not try to explain it .
                              If you will try to explain Einstein Theory to a Professor of physics ,Is this not his "insult"
                              Quran is by itself a "Professor".please do not try to insult it.
                              No dictionary 'no further interpretation is needed.
                              These interpretations (tafseers) have already damaged Islam.And you are doing the same thing.Why ??

                              You said

                              It saying it is clearly explained is not synonymous with every single verse/sign being objective and disallowing any interpretation.

                              Interpretation ??Interpretaion means explanation.
                              You said

                              The difference is that you follow MAN-MADE works OUTSIDE of the quran as religious guidance

                              Yes I agree with you.This is the reason let Quran alone.These man made works (Tafseer) have damage Islam.Do not try to give your own explanations .Let Quran explain itself and it has.
                              Only Verses please .Nothing else.

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                                Navid
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #75

                                I give up (

                                Peace all

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                                  Leoxyz
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #76

                                  I give up (

                                  Peace all

                                  It seems as you some "Brain" .
                                  Thanks

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                                    Samia
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #77

                                    Salaam Samia,

                                    You have professed above that Quran explains it self then perhaps you could explain two things in the Quran, who was Abu Laheb and who is God refering to in the big lie incidence without using Hadith.

                                    And I agree Quran explains itself, but how is the question for you?

                                    Regards

                                    Ijaz

                                    Only two?

                                    There is a whole chapter named the arguing woman (5 but does not tell who this woman was; there is also that one man who believed the mesengers (chapter Yaa-Seen - 36); the people of the cave (1 including the dog; the man whom God made dead for 100 year; his donkey; Moses mother and sister; Noah's wife; Lot's wife or any other prophet's/messenger's wife...ah, and Our Mother, wife of Adam (for those who believe Adam is an individual)...the list is very long. Why among all these very important personalities, whether believers (on top of whom are the mothers of the mu'mins/wives of the prophet) or criminals who were probably worse than Abu Lahab, would God give Abu Lahab the honor of mentioning his name, telling us about his punishment but does not tell about his crime?

                                    And what about Abu Jahl? He must be jealous!!

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                                      Leoxyz
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #78

                                      Only two?

                                      And what about Abu Jahl? He must be jealous!!

                                      Who is "Abu Jahl" .
                                      Reference from the Holy Quran Please

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                                        Samia
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #79

                                        Who is "Abu Jahl" .
                                        Reference from the Holy Quran Please

                                        Brother of Abu Lahab rotfl

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                                          Leoxyz
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #80

                                          Brother of Abu Lahab rotfl

                                          Evidence please ??

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