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  4. How many verses are there in the quran ?

How many verses are there in the quran ?

Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved Questions/Comments on the Quran
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  • W Offline
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    wildguest1956
    wrote on last edited by
    #1

    The number of verses in the Arabic Qur'an are recorded after the title of the Surah, and the verses distinguished in the text by a small cypher or circle. The early readers of the Qur'an did not agree as to the original position of these circles, and so it happens that there are five different systems of numbering the verses

    (a) Kufah verses. The Readers in the city of al-Kufah say that they followed the custom of 'Ali. Their way of reckoning is generally adopted in India. They reckon 6,239 verses.
    (b) Basrah verses. The Readers of al-Basrah follow 'Asim ibn Hajjaj, a Companion. They reckon 6,204.
    (c) Shami verses, The Readers in Syria (Shiim) followed 'Abdu 'lliih ibn 'Umar, a Companion. They reckon 6,225 verses.
    (d) Makkah verses. According to this arrangement, there are 6,219 verses.
    (e) Madinah verses. This way of reading contains 6,211 verses.

    http//muslim-canada.org/quran_division.html

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      the_seeker
      wrote on last edited by
      #2

      The number of verses in the Arabic Qur'an are recorded after the title of the Surah, and the verses distinguished in the text by a small cypher or circle. The early readers of the Qur'an did not agree as to the original position of these circles, and so it happens that there are five different systems of numbering the verses

      (a) Kufah verses. The Readers in the city of al-Kufah say that they followed the custom of 'Ali. Their way of reckoning is generally adopted in India. They reckon 6,239 verses.
      (b) Basrah verses. The Readers of al-Basrah follow 'Asim ibn Hajjaj, a Companion. They reckon 6,204.
      (c) Shami verses, The Readers in Syria (Shiim) followed 'Abdu 'lliih ibn 'Umar, a Companion. They reckon 6,225 verses.
      (d) Makkah verses. According to this arrangement, there are 6,219 verses.
      (e) Madinah verses. This way of reading contains 6,211 verses.

      http//muslim-canada.org/quran_division.html

      Peace all

      Alhamdulillah after much searching (as I don't want to post the same question already posted here) I found the relevant post for my inquiry. I just wondered why this post did not prosper since 12/11/2007.

      My questions are

      1. Were the subdivision of chapters done by muhammad himself and is there proof in the quran?
        a) What method/system is used for chapter divisions? Do we have symbols or numbers?
      2. Were the subdivision of the verses done by muhammad himself and is there proof in the quran?
        a) What method/system is used for verse divisions? Do we have symbols or numbers?

      I pray that this topic will interest most of us here. Any help is greatly appreciated.

      Ramon

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        Bigmo
        wrote on last edited by
        #3

        Peace all

        Alhamdulillah after much searching (as I don't want to post the same question already posted here) I found the relevant post for my inquiry. I just wondered why this post did not prosper since 12/11/2007.

        My questions are

        1. Were the subdivision of chapters done by muhammad himself and is there proof in the quran?
          a) What method/system is used for chapter divisions? Do we have symbols or numbers?
        2. Were the subdivision of the verses done by muhammad himself and is there proof in the quran?
          a) What method/system is used for verse divisions? Do we have symbols or numbers?

        I pray that this topic will interest most of us here. Any help is greatly appreciated.

        Ramon

        Not much is known about origins of the Koran, as is the case with all Divine scriptures. Most of this info you provide are based on traditions and not historical facts. What you see is what you get. Anyways, who cares. Many people investigate the origins of planets and mountains and stars. But for most of us its who cares. The question that is a concern is who authored it and not how it was arranged. Who cares about plate tectonics? In fact it is still not clear how the Earth was formed or how the Stars were formed. They believe gravity pulled the dust together and in time the Sun was formed and heated up and then a nuclear fission occurred or something like that. But many details of that are still unknown. And we certainly do not know how we came here although the Darwinist will tell you otherwise. But who cares?

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          almarh0m
          wrote on last edited by
          #4

          Salamun alaykum

          Someone from "Submitters Study Group" in my home town told me that the Total Number of Verses in The Qur'an is 6327 . When I asked him how he knew that , he told me that he counted them manually and it is also 333x19=6327 . Whether this is true or not , I am not sure but I just believe in all of the verses . ( this was about 5 years ago ) .

          Peace

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            unknownuser
            wrote on last edited by
            #5

            6236 <---- Total Verses in Qur'an

            Value | Appears in Qur'an | Letter
            1 ???.. 59090 ???..
            2 ???.. 11492 ???..
            3 ???.. 3317 ???..
            4 ???.. 5990 ???..
            5 ???.. 17241 ???..
            6 ???.. 25589 ???..
            7 ???.. 1599 ???..
            8 ???.. 4141 ???..
            9 ???.. 1274 ???..
            10 ???.. 25734 ???..
            20 ???.. 10497 ???..
            30 ???.. 38191 ???..
            40 ???.. 26733 ???..
            50 ???.. 27270 ???..
            60 ???.. 6015 ???..
            70 ???.. 9406 ???..
            80 ???.. 8747 ???..
            90 ???.. 2072 ???..
            100 ???.. 7034 ???..
            200 ???.. 12407 ???..
            300 ???.. 2124 ???..
            400 ???.. 10469 ???..
            500 ???.. 1414 ???..
            600 ???.. 2497 ???..
            700 ???.. 4934 ???..
            800 ???.. 1686 ???..
            900 ???.. 852 ???..
            1000 ???.. 1222 ???..

            5995 ???.. 329037 <----- Total Letters in Quran

            5995 329037 is prime!
            Also check out the even/odd and symmetry...

            893
            And/By the even and the odd

            http//i43.tinypic.com/2ev9jxe.jpg
            http//i43.tinypic.com/2100qaf.jpg

            12791 is prime!

            209029 is prime!

            6236 12791 is prime!

            6555 209029 is prime!

            333667 (total sum all verses, 28+ 41041? + 8385? +21) is prime!

            12791 + 209029 + 333667 = 555487 is prime!

            http//www.usi.edu/science/math/prime.html

            Peace,

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              bkanwar2
              wrote on last edited by
              #6

              Peace, to all. This division of Quran in Suras and Ayas is a later happening, for purpose of referring to particular theme, in a big piece of written text. Hence it is okay for this purpose only and has no other significance. One has to realise that methods of writting were not as elaborate at that time.

              Badar

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                herbman
                wrote on last edited by
                #7

                Hi all,

                dear Mr bkanwar2 please prove your saying, Suras and Ayas are clearly mentioned in Al Quran

                eg sourat
                Al-Baqara
                At-Taubah
                At-Taubah
                At-Taubah
                At-Taubah
                Yunus
                An-Noor
                Muhammad

                and Aya
                Al-Baqara
                Al-Baqara
                An-Nahl
                There are many more references to Ayat but you know Ayat can mean either Verse or Miracle or Sign depending on the sentence.

                I do not say what we have today is the exact division of souras and verse but what I mean is the Quran is composed of these suras and verses as mentioned in the great reading and is not an invention.

                Regards

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                  bkanwar2
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #8

                  Dear Herbman Peace and profound regards. Linguistically, the claim that Alkitab was divided in Suras and Ayas doesn't hold up. If we consider Aya as verse, which means, literature in metrical form, usually in poetry. However, this does not apply to so to call Quranic verses or Aya. If we consider a verse equal to current sentence in present day prose, it does not hold up either. Let me elaborate by an example from Alkitab itself

                  23

                  24

                  Now, in poetry in metrical form, one neither starts next verse with "waa" meaning "and". Nor a sentence with "and" is considered two sentences. There are ample examples of this in great reading

                  As regards, it's division into Suras. We all know the most Suras have multiple names. Hence, this also could not be done and told by prophet as he did not add anything in Alkitab, except what he was told.

                  With regards, I am only talking about division of Alkitab, into Suras and Ayas. Nothing to do with, as to if these words are mentioned in Alkitab itself, or not. It is about interpertation of these words, to imply division.

                  Badar

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                    jonny_k
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #9

                    Peace all,
                    "Eid" got it almost right. 6236 - 2(9128&129) = 6234 numbered verses + the 112 unnumbered BISMILLAHS which are ALSO VERSES = 6346 = 19 X 334 just as the no Bismillahs despite it's absence on sura 9 and the total no of suras in the Quran. POINT TO NOTE is that the table of symmetry youve shown ALSO WORKS without 9128&129. See http//www.quranmiracles.com/19/19read.asp?id=38 . Infact i believe this is the original finder and "Eid" copied it. GOD Bless!

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                      unknownuser
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #10

                      Peace,

                      Dear Herbman Peace and profound regards. Linguistically, the claim that Alkitab was divided in Suras and Ayas doesn't hold up. If we consider Aya as verse, which means, literature in metrical form, usually in poetry. However, this does not apply to so to call Quranic verses or Aya. If we consider a verse equal to current sentence in present day prose, it does not hold up either. Let me elaborate by an example from Alkitab itself

                      23

                      24

                      Now, in poetry in metrical form, one neither starts next verse with "waa" meaning "and". Nor a sentence with "and" is considered two sentences. There are ample examples of this in great reading

                      As regards, it's division into Suras. We all know the most Suras have multiple names. Hence, this also could not be done and told by prophet as he did not add anything in Alkitab, except what he was told.

                      With regards, I am only talking about division of Alkitab, into Suras and Ayas. Nothing to do with, as to if these words are mentioned in Alkitab itself, or not. It is about interpertation of these words, to imply division.

                      Badar

                      Peace,

                      Linguistics and grammar rule standards agreed upon by people do not apply to Qur?an. Starting a sentence with ?and? ( wa) in Qur?an there is no restriction and likewise the initialed letters make no sense; e.g.

                      21 Alif-lam-meem

                      Recited as three separate words, written with three letters or the numerous chapters which start with ?Say? or ?And? linguistically and grammatically break rules and multiple surah names their mention in Quran are evidence along with early manuscripts

                      http//portal.unesco.org/ci/photos/showphoto.php/photo/3448/size/big

                      "Eid" got it almost right. 6236 - 2(9128&129) = 6234 numbered verses + the 112 unnumbered BISMILLAHS which are ALSO VERSES = 6346 = 19 X 334 just as the no Bismillahs despite it's absence on sura 9 and the total no of suras in the Quran. POINT TO NOTE is that the table of symmetry youve shown ALSO WORKS without 9128&129. See http//www.quranmiracles.com/19/19read.asp?id=38 . Infact i believe this is the original finder and "Eid" copied it. GOD Bless!

                      Removing verses is a lie leading to hell fire and nineteen is to convince the naive/ignorant that 1 / 19 = 0.0526315789 of all things is a multiple. The even/odd ALSO WORKS when ANY even #of verses is moved/added/deleted within even/odd group and by doing so all prime totals (see above) are lost

                      1-57 http//i35.tinypic.com/atonwz.jpg

                      58-114 http//i35.tinypic.com/2cr4yev.jpg

                      60 even # verses 54 odd # verses
                      30 even-even 30 odd-even 27 odd-odd 27 even-odd

                      1752 1708 1698 1806 1551 1225 1554 1497 <----- Totals

                      1752+1708+1698+1806 = 6964
                      1551+1225+1554+1497 = 5827
                      12791 <---- is prime (see above)
                      6964 5827 is prime.

                      All that can be done to the above is rename chapters with equal #of verses (still under study).

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                        jonny_k
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #11

                        Peace "eid",

                        Removing verses is a lie leading to hell fire and nineteen is to convince the naive/ignorant that 1 / 19 = 0.0526315789 of all things is a multiple. The even/odd ALSO WORKS when ANY even #of verses is moved/added/deleted within even/odd group and by doing so all prime totals (see above) are lost

                        1-57 http//i35.tinypic.com/atonwz.jpg

                        58-114 http//i35.tinypic.com/2cr4yev.jpg

                        60 even # verses 54 odd # verses
                        30 even-even 30 odd-even 27 odd-odd 27 even-odd

                        1752 1708 1698 1806 1551 1225 1554 1497 <----- Totals

                        1752+1708+1698+1806 = 6964
                        1551+1225+1554+1497 = 5827
                        12791 <---- is prime (see above)
                        6964 5827 is prime.

                        All that can be done to the above is rename chapters with equal #of verses (still under study).

                        JK- BUT there are more facts to be considered then just this table which works equally well without 9128&129 and those two verses stand out by many facts. Some of the most important being that the count of "allah" becomes 2699 and the term raheem, which is otherwise exclusively used for GOD in the Bismillah, the most significant phrase, is here used for Muhammad. FURTHERMORE we are not technically removing verses BUT ANALYSDING which verses are part of the Quran in the 1st place. Say that someone came up to you and said "Here this is quran take it" would that make it all Quran? It is very easy for someone to take a pen, include a few verses in what we know as quran, print that book and sell it off as quran. Should we accept those verses as Quranic EVEN IF they dont contradict the rest of the Quranic verses? THIS IS THE PROBLEM. How do you define what are Quranic verses and what arnt if not ultimetaly by a numerical structure? GOD Bless!

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                          jonny_k
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #12

                          Peace "Eid",
                          Let me also point out that those who ask of us to prove that certain verses, mainly 9128&129, are NOT from the Quran are comitting the fallacy of ASKING US TO PROVE A -VE. THEY have to prove to us that 9128&129 and any verses for that matter ARE part of the Quran in the 1st place. GOD Bless!

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                            herbman
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #13

                            Dear Herbman Peace and profound regards. Linguistically, the claim that Alkitab was divided in Suras and Ayas doesn't hold up. If we consider Aya as verse, which means, literature in metrical form, usually in poetry. However, this does not apply to so to call Quranic verses or Aya. If we consider a verse equal to current sentence in present day prose, it does not hold up either. Let me elaborate by an example from Alkitab itself

                            23

                            24

                            Now, in poetry in metrical form, one neither starts next verse with "waa" meaning "and". Nor a sentence with "and" is considered two sentences. There are ample examples of this in great reading

                            As regards, it's division into Suras. We all know the most Suras have multiple names. Hence, this also could not be done and told by prophet as he did not add anything in Alkitab, except what he was told.

                            With regards, I am only talking about division of Alkitab, into Suras and Ayas. Nothing to do with, as to if these words are mentioned in Alkitab itself, or not. It is about interpertation of these words, to imply division.

                            Badar

                            Peace,

                            • nobody has said an AYA (verse) = a sentence example has already been give e.g Alif lam mim, etc it is not a sentence
                            • You say "if we consider Aya as verse, which means, literature in metrical form, usually in poetry"--> Quran says " " Yasin verse 69 "We did not teach him poetry..." Then do not try to make equivalence with poetry it just does not work
                            • about this "As regards, it's division into Suras. We all know the most Suras have multiple names. Hence, this also could not be done and told by prophet as he did not add anything in Alkitab, except what he was told" I agree BUT what about sourate Noor v1
                            • But I agree with you when saying it has no significance it just helps to reference AL Quran.

                            and I would like to ask everyone what do you think about this verse 1587

                            yusuf ali translation And We have bestowed upon thee the Seven Oft-Repeated and the Grand Qur'an

                            Do you think the seven often repeated are the verses from Al fatiha?

                            Thanks

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                              bkanwar2
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #14

                              Thanks, Herbman for understanding the point. I have in past elaborated based on linguistic break down. The word AlKur'aan neither means, a proper name for Alkitab. Nor has any thing to do with intense reading or recitation. It means "the one I established".

                              Badar

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                                kn
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #15

                                1587

                                We have given you several examples from history that repeats itself, and We have given you this Sublime Qur?an that defines the Laws of the rise and fall of nations.

                                Please review above, yet another rendition on ourbeacon.com. I have reviewed several renditions, but looking at the flow of this Sura, above was very sensible and appears correct.

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                                  unknownuser
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #16

                                  Peace jonny,

                                  JK- BUT there are more facts to be considered then just this table which works equally well without 9128&129 and those two verses stand out by many facts. Some of the most important being that the count of "allah" becomes 2699 and the term raheem, which is otherwise exclusively used for GOD in the Bismillah, the most significant phrase, is here used for Muhammad.

                                  What exactly are you counting?

                                  "Eid" got it almost right. 6236 - 2(9128&129) = 6234 numbered verses + the 112 unnumbered BISMILLAHS which are ALSO VERSES = 6346 = 19 X 334

                                  Are you including BISMILLAHS or excluding BISMILLAHS?

                                  AL-RaHMaN or LL-RaHMaN?

                                  Al-Raheem (the Compassionate) or Raheem (Compassionate)?

                                  What about alAAazeezi (the Mighty) as in?
                                  365

                                  In context -- Who is The Mighty The Compassionate?

                                  http//www.openburhan.net/ob_w.php?w=2310
                                  Browse Word

                                  FURTHERMORE we are not technically removing verses BUT ANALYSDING which verses are part of the Quran in the 1st place. Say that someone came up to you and said "Here this is quran take it" would that make it all Quran? It is very easy for someone to take a pen, include a few verses in what we know as quran, print that book and sell it off as quran. Should we accept those verses as Quranic EVEN IF they dont contradict the rest of the Quranic verses?

                                  There is no contradiction (removing verses nullifies protection of the book) and raheem ?in context? -- always read in context, means simply as nice, caring...

                                  9127 And when any chapter was descended, some of them looked to some, (and said) "Does from anyone see you?" Then they went away, God diverted their hearts, because they are a nation (that) do not understand.

                                  9128 Now there has come to you a Messenger from among yourselves; grievous to him is your suffering; anxious is he over you, gentle to the believers, compassionate.

                                  9129 So if they turn away say, ?God is enough for me. There is no god but He. In Him do I place my trust. He is the Lord of the Mighty Throne!?

                                  THIS IS THE PROBLEM. How do you define what are Quranic verses and what arnt if not ultimetaly by a numerical structure? GOD Bless!

                                  The math is only an even/odd peculiarity including my prime number theory which is nothing unless one can prove consistency throughout with each chapter and tie it to text prevent simple stuff like flipping Alif-lam-meem to Meem-alif-lam or flip whole chapters and verses around or add/delete text.

                                  Most of the nineteen calculations are absurd, like adding numbers which are factorial combinations or clueless posts trying to tie in Fibonacci which has little to do with nineteen and other stuff proposed by the ignorant searching manipulating to make multiples or claiming to know the order of revelation for each chapter and other nonsense which pops into peoples? heads gives them a buzz every time they see a multiple proclaim themselves messengers prance about freaking out at anything nineteen calling it a miracle? lol

                                  Let me also point out that those who ask of us to prove that certain verses, mainly 9128&129, are NOT from the Quran are comitting the fallacy of ASKING US TO PROVE A -VE. THEY have to prove to us that 9128&129 and any verses for that matter ARE part of the Quran in the 1st place. GOD Bless!

                                  The book is there and those who believe see and know it.

                                  21
                                  22
                                  23

                                  Peace

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                                    jonny_k
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #17

                                    Peace "eid",

                                    Peace jonny,

                                    What exactly are you counting?

                                    Are you including BISMILLAHS or excluding BISMILLAHS?

                                    JK- The unnumbered 112 Bismilahs are EXCLUDED FOR ALL WORDS IN THE BISM CONSISTENTLY.

                                    AL-RaHMaN or LL-RaHMaN?

                                    JK- "rahman" WITH ALL POSSIBLE PREFIXES and no pluural forms. if it had suffices like hum/kum etc those woudlnt be counted. Agan this method is aplied throughout and had been done so before RK.

                                    Al-Raheem (the Compassionate) or Raheem (Compassionate)?

                                    JK- Agian "raheem" with all prefixes and no plural forms. This would include "arrahem" "birrahem" "raheem" but not "ruhama" for example.

                                    What about alAAazeezi (the Mighty) as in?
                                    365

                                    In context -- Who is The Mighty The Compassionate?

                                    http//www.openburhan.net/ob_w.php?w=2310
                                    Browse Word

                                    JK- Obviously in 365 GOD is the one from Whom came the revelation
                                    362 And the Quran that is full of wisdom.
                                    ...
                                    365 This revelation is from the Almighty, Most Merciful.

                                    There is no contradiction (removing verses nullifies protection of the book) and raheem ?in context? -- always read in context, means simply as nice, caring...

                                    JK- If IYU removing verses nullifies protection then that has already happened. There are thousands of copies of the Quran printed by submission.org which dont contain 9128&129.

                                    9127 And when any chapter was descended, some of them looked to some, (and said) "Does from anyone see you?" Then they went away, God diverted their hearts, because they are a nation (that) do not understand.

                                    9128 Now there has come to you a Messenger from among yourselves; grievous to him is your suffering; anxious is he over you, gentle to the believers, compassionate.

                                    9129 So if they turn away say, ?God is enough for me. There is no god but He. In Him do I place my trust. He is the Lord of the Mighty Throne!?

                                    The math is only an even/odd peculiarity including my prime number theory which is nothing unless one can prove consistency throughout with each chapter and tie it to text prevent simple stuff like flipping Alif-lam-meem to Meem-alif-lam or flip whole chapters and verses around or add/delete text.

                                    Most of the nineteen calculations are absurd, like adding numbers which are factorial combinations or clueless posts trying to tie in Fibonacci which has little to do with nineteen and other stuff proposed by the ignorant searching manipulating to make multiples or claiming to know the order of revelation for each chapter and other nonsense which pops into peoples? heads gives them a buzz every time they see a multiple proclaim themselves messengers prance about freaking out at anything nineteen calling it a miracle? lol

                                    The book is there and those who believe see and know it.

                                    21
                                    22
                                    23

                                    Peace

                                    JK- Ofcourse theres always alot of glass but that shouldn block one form seeing the diamonds. The counts of the words in the Bismillah are 1) done by a consistent method 2) Abdul Baqi came to a similar count 50 yrts before RK and 3) COINCEIDENTALLY??! the GVs of four other attributes of GOD in the Quran MATCHED EXACTLY the counts of the four words in the Bismillah e.g. "zul fadlil azeem" GV = 2698 which equals exctly to RK's count of "allah" though RK never knew about the GV which was discovered later. How likely is it that youll find an attribute in the Quran whose GV >2000. Unlikely aint it? Now how unlikely is it that itd be exactly 2698?? Extremely unlikely but yet it happened. Same goes for the other three words. GOD Bless!

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                                      jonny_k
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #18

                                      Peace "Eid",
                                      Regarding "al-azeez" you probably meant that that attribute is used for other than GOD in the Quran so why cant "arraheem"? BUT that was never my argument. Ofcourse CERTAIN attributes used for GOD can also apply to humans BUT "RAHMAN", "RAHEEM" and "ALLAH" ARE NOT AMONGST THEM. Thats why theyr in the first and most significant phrase which exclusively invokes GOD Alone. It makes no sense that any of THOSE attributes be used for any other besides GOD. Actually the example of "al-azeez" also strengthens my point against those who try to claim "well ar-raheem cant be used for any other than GOD but raheem can". If true then also only "azeez" should be used for humans too and not "al-azeez" BUT it is used for the king in Joseph's account in the Quran. I hope you understood it. GOD Bless!

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                                        herbman
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #19

                                        Peace all,

                                        Dera Kn where you get Bidha? from???? Please clarify.

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                                          unknownuser
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #20

                                          Peace jonny,

                                          JK- The unnumbered 112 Bismilahs are EXCLUDED FOR ALL WORDS IN THE BISM CONSISTENTLY.

                                          JK- "rahman" WITH ALL POSSIBLE PREFIXES and no pluural forms. if it had suffices like hum/kum etc those woudlnt be counted. Agan this method is aplied throughout and had been done so before RK.

                                          JK- Agian "raheem" with all prefixes and no plural forms. This would include "arrahem" "birrahem" "raheem" but not "ruhama" for example.

                                          Why, are not those 112 verses part of Quran as you stated prior? NOT nineteen multiple if NOT EXCLUDED. Then they remove verses to make multiples based on nonsense weak hadith at that.

                                          Then INCLUDED when counting initials; perhaps highlight which are CONSISTENTLY multiple?

                                          No Ch Initials
                                          1 2 ALM
                                          2 3 ALM
                                          3 7 ALMS
                                          4 10 ALR
                                          5 11 ALR
                                          6 12 ALR
                                          7 13 ALMR
                                          8 14 ALR
                                          9 15 ALR
                                          10 19 KHYAS
                                          11 20 TH
                                          12 26 TSM
                                          13 27 TS
                                          14 28 TSM
                                          15 29 ALM
                                          16 30 ALM
                                          17 31 ALM
                                          18 32 ALM
                                          19 36 YS
                                          20 38 S
                                          21 40 HM
                                          22 41 HM
                                          23 42 HMASQ
                                          24 43 HM
                                          25 44 HM
                                          26 45 HM
                                          27 46 HM
                                          28 50 Q
                                          29 68 N

                                          JK- Obviously in 365 GOD is the one from Whom came the revelation
                                          362 And the Quran that is full of wisdom.
                                          ...
                                          365 This revelation is from the Almighty, Most Merciful.

                                          Obviously also used for people depending on context

                                          1230

                                          1251

                                          1278

                                          1288

                                          JK- If IYU removing verses nullifies protection then that has already happened. There are thousands of copies of the Quran printed by submission.org which dont contain 9128&129.

                                          Yes, direct willful disobedience per recommendation of their idol and bad manipulative math.

                                          JK- Ofcourse theres always alot of glass but that shouldn block one form seeing the diamonds. The counts of the words in the Bismillah are 1) done by a consistent method

                                          False -- they removed verses, the first word only appears 3 times not nineteen, etc.

                                          Abdul Baqi came to a similar count 50 yrts before RK
                                          3) COINCEIDENTALLY??!

                                          So what, anyone can now easily varify counts with browser simple search tool and if one looks for all things nineteen they'll find on average 5% hits, whoopee do.

                                          Already did this on a 114 chapter book with #of verses chosen at random...
                                          http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9597403.msg196912#msg196912

                                          the GVs of four other attributes of GOD in the Quran MATCHED EXACTLY the counts of the four words in the Bismillah e.g. "zul fadlil azeem" GV = 2698 which equals exctly to RK's count of "allah" though RK never knew about the GV which was discovered later. How likely is it that youll find an attribute in the Quran whose GV >2000. Unlikely aint it? Now how unlikely is it that itd be exactly 2698?? Extremely unlikely but yet it happened. Same goes for the other three words.

                                          What? You have to be kidding, with 28 letters the combinations gv = 2698 are astronomical.

                                          28 factorial = 3.04888345^1029

                                          You know there are only 10^50 electrons in the known universe, and we already discussed this in another thread the larger the number the greater the probability.

                                          Here, start combining letters see how many combinations with gv = 2698...lol

                                          6236 <---- Total Verses in Qur'an

                                          Value | Appears in Qur'an | Letter
                                          1 ???.. 59090 ???..
                                          2 ???.. 11492 ???..
                                          3 ???.. 3317 ???..
                                          4 ???.. 5990 ???..
                                          5 ???.. 17241 ???..
                                          6 ???.. 25589 ???..
                                          7 ???.. 1599 ???..
                                          8 ???.. 4141 ???..
                                          9 ???.. 1274 ???..
                                          10 ???.. 25734 ???..
                                          20 ???.. 10497 ???..
                                          30 ???.. 38191 ???..
                                          40 ???.. 26733 ???..
                                          50 ???.. 27270 ???..
                                          60 ???.. 6015 ???..
                                          70 ???.. 9406 ???..
                                          80 ???.. 8747 ???..
                                          90 ???.. 2072 ???..
                                          100 ???.. 7034 ???..
                                          200 ???.. 12407 ???..
                                          300 ???.. 2124 ???..
                                          400 ???.. 10469 ???..
                                          500 ???.. 1414 ???..
                                          600 ???.. 2497 ???..
                                          700 ???.. 4934 ???..
                                          800 ???.. 1686 ???..
                                          900 ???.. 852 ???..
                                          1000 ???.. 1222 ???..

                                          5995 ???.. 329037 <----- Total Letters in Quran

                                          5995 329037 is prime!

                                          By the way, # of alif in the entire Qur'an with ALL 6236 verses = 59090 / 19 = 3110!

                                          Which means very little other than only that and check out this miracle...lol

                                          ch|verses|ch+v

                                          178
                                          2286288
                                          3200203
                                          4176180
                                          5120125
                                          6165171
                                          7206213
                                          87583
                                          9129138
                                          10109119
                                          11123134
                                          12111123
                                          134356
                                          145266
                                          1599114
                                          16128144
                                          17111128
                                          18110128
                                          1998117
                                          20135155
                                          21112133
                                          2278100
                                          23118141
                                          246488
                                          2577102
                                          26227253
                                          2793120
                                          2888116
                                          296998
                                          306090
                                          313465
                                          323062
                                          3373106
                                          345488
                                          354580
                                          3683119
                                          37182219
                                          3888126
                                          3975114
                                          4085125
                                          415495
                                          425395
                                          4389132
                                          4459103
                                          453782
                                          463581
                                          473885
                                          482977
                                          491867
                                          504595
                                          5160111
                                          5249101
                                          5362115
                                          5455109
                                          5578133
                                          5696152
                                          572986
                                          582280
                                          592483
                                          601373
                                          611475
                                          621173
                                          631174
                                          641882
                                          651277
                                          661278
                                          673097
                                          6852120
                                          6952121
                                          7044114
                                          712899
                                          7228100
                                          732093
                                          7456130
                                          7540115
                                          7631107
                                          7750127
                                          7840118
                                          7946125
                                          8042122
                                          8129110
                                          8219101
                                          8336119
                                          8425109
                                          8522107
                                          8617103
                                          8719106
                                          8826114
                                          8930119
                                          9020110
                                          9115106
                                          9221113
                                          9311104
                                          948102
                                          958103
                                          9619115
                                          975102
                                          988106
                                          998107
                                          10011111
                                          10111112
                                          1028110
                                          1033106
                                          1049113
                                          1055110
                                          1064110
                                          1077114
                                          1083111
                                          1096115
                                          1103113
                                          1115116
                                          1124116
                                          1135118
                                          1146120

                                          583180861 <---- Total is prime!

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