How many verses are there in the quran ?

jonny_k

Peace "eid",

Peace jonny,

Why, are not those 112 verses part of Quran as you stated prior? NOT nineteen multiple if NOT EXCLUDED. Then they remove verses to make multiples based on nonsense weak hadith at that.

JK- Those 112 verses are part of the Quran BUT they are UNNUMBERED. GOD apparently showed this via His numerical structure. This is exactly why when we count the initials we INCLUDE THOSE BISMILLAH LETTERS CONSISTENTLY.

Then INCLUDED when counting initials; perhaps highlight which are CONSISTENTLY multiple?

No Ch Initials
1 2 ALM
2 3 ALM
3 7 ALMS
4 10 ALR
5 11 ALR
6 12 ALR
7 13 ALMR
8 14 ALR
9 15 ALR
10 19 KHYAS
11 20 TH
12 26 TSM
13 27 TS
14 28 TSM
15 29 ALM
16 30 ALM
17 31 ALM
18 32 ALM
19 36 YS
20 38 S
21 40 HM
22 41 HM
23 42 HMASQ
24 43 HM
25 44 HM
26 45 HM
27 46 HM
28 50 Q
29 68 N

JK- There is still problems with initial counts that have "alif" as initials. BUT the initial counts have shown an overall significant result. Here are the details
http//19.org/index.php?id=26,62,0,0,1,0

Obviously also used for people depending on context

1230

1251

1278

1288

JK- Ive explained this in my second post to you.

Yes, direct willful disobedience per recommendation of their idol and bad manipulative math.

JK- BUT you havnt answered my assertion. You claimed that removing verses would violate protection claimed by GOD. Meaning your claiming that no one should be able to remove verses or how do you understand that? So if there are two or more books in the world bith claiming to be Quran and one having less verses than the other HOW WOULD YOU TELL WHICH ONE IS THE TRUE QURAN? Can you answer that please?

False -- they removed verses, the first word only appears 3 times not nineteen, etc.

JK- "ism" is an exception i must admit. And yes for any exception there must be good justification and there is in this case. Please see
http//submission.org/miracle/miracle19x.html
Hence only "ism(alif sin miim)" is counted and that occurs 19 times. ALSO there is one additional attribute of GOD, namely, shaheed,, that occurs exatly 19 times.

So what, anyone can now easily varify counts with browser simple search tool and if one looks for all things nineteen they'll find on average 5% hits, whoopee do.

Already did this on a 114 chapter book with #of verses chosen at random...
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9597403.msg196912#msg196912

JK- Again this shows your probably not aware of RKs work. Otherwise you would have known that he recounted each word for himself later on and did not rely on a previous index. Thats how he came up with 2699 words "allah" in the mushaf later whilst Baqi was stating 2698. Initially RK also counted 2698 BOTH RK AND BAQI making a different mistake by exluding a term "allah" in a different verse. Bro Edip Yuksel whos been working together side by side with Edip can attest to all of this. Then finally RK conlusded the extra "allah" was tht of 9129.

What? You have to be kidding, with 28 letters the combinations gv = 2698 are astronomical.

28 factorial = 3.04888345^1029

You know there are only 10^50 electrons in the known universe, and we already discussed this in another thread the larger the number the greater the probability.

Here, start combining letters see how many combinations with gv = 2698...lol

JK- WAIT. STOP RIGHT HERE. WE ARE NOT TALKING ABOUT RANDOM COMBINATIONS OF LETTERS. THE TERMS MUST BE WORDS THAT EXIST IN THE ARABIC LANGUAGE. I thought that was clear but apparently not. Gibberish doesnt count otherwise ofcourse it would be non significant. MOREOVER the terms need to be ATTRIBUTES. So again HOW MANY ARABIC ATTRIBUTES HAVE GVS EQUAL 2698? Not many BECAUSE MOST NON GIBBERISH REAL ARABIC WORDS HAVE GVS LESS THAN 2000. That was my point.

By the way, # of alif in the entire Qur'an with ALL 6236 verses = 59090 / 19 = 3110!

Which means very little other than only that and check out this miracle...lol

ch|verses|ch+v

178
2286288
3200203
4176180
5120125
6165171
7206213
87583
9129138
10109119
11123134
12111123
134356
145266
1599114
16128144
17111128
18110128
1998117
20135155
21112133
2278100
23118141
246488
2577102
26227253
2793120
2888116
296998
306090
313465
323062
3373106
345488
354580
3683119
37182219
3888126
3975114
4085125
415495
425395
4389132
4459103
453782
463581
473885
482977
491867
504595
5160111
5249101
5362115
5455109
5578133
5696152
572986
582280
592483
601373
611475
621173
631174
641882
651277
661278
673097
6852120
6952121
7044114
712899
7228100
732093
7456130
7540115
7631107
7750127
7840118
7946125
8042122
8129110
8219101
8336119
8425109
8522107
8617103
8719106
8826114
8930119
9020110
9115106
9221113
9311104
948102
958103
9619115
975102
988106
998107
10011111
10111112
1028110
1033106
1049113
1055110
1064110
1077114
1083111
1096115
1103113
1115116
1124116
1135118
1146120

583180861 <---- Total is prime!

JK- Your forgetting that the alif counts are the most disputed even now. We dont even know for sure yet if RKs counts of "alif, laam , miim" etc are correct because of this very problem of identifying alif. Apparently you were not aware of this either. GOD Bless!

unknownuser

Peace jonny,

JK- Those 112 verses are part of the Quran BUT they are UNNUMBERED. GOD apparently showed this via His numerical structure. This is exactly why when we count the initials we INCLUDE THOSE BISMILLAH LETTERS CONSISTENTLY.

Pure conjecture to MAKE IT multiple, Qur?an states otherwise.
Likewise, to delete 9128-129 is pure conjecture to MAKE IT multiple.

JK- There is still problems with initial counts that have "alif" as initials. BUT the initial counts have shown an overall significant result. Here are the details
http//19.org/index.php?id=26,62,0,0,1,0

Insignificant, inconsistent work done by the clueless presented in a shroud.

I simply asked which are consistently multiple in their chapters? Here, lets verify per 1736...

No....Ch Initials ..............................................Total...Total / 19

1......2....ALM??.4704....3205...2196...............10105...531.8421053
2......3....ALM??.2662....1896...1249.................5807...305.6315789
3......7....ALMS?.2648....1531...1164....97..........5440...286.3157895
4.....10....ALR??1356....916....257....................2529...133.1052632
5.....11....ALR??1418....797....325....................2540...133.6842105
6.....12....ALR??1375....812....257....................2444...128.6315789
7.....13....ALMR?..627....482....260....137...........1506....79.26315789
8.....14....ALR......618....453....160.....................1231....64.78947368
9.....15....ALR......525....324.....96.......................945....49.73684211
10....19....KHYAS..137....175....334....117....26.....789....41.52631579
11....20....TH........28....251................................279....14.68421053
12....26....TSM......33....94.....484........................611....32.15789474
13....27....TS........27....94..................................121.....6.368421053
14....28....TSM......19....102....460.......................581....30.57894737
15....29....ALM.....814....554....344.....................1712....90.10526316
16....30....ALM?...317....395....317.....................1029....54.15789474
17....31....ALM.....389....300....173.......................862....45.36842105
18....32....ALM.....279....155....158.......................592....31.15789474
19....36....YS........231....48.................................279....14.68421053
20....38....S..........29...........................................29.....1.526315789
21....40....HM........64....380................................444....23.36842105
22....41....HM........48....276................................324....17.05263158
23....42....HMAySQ.53....300.....98.....54....57........562....29.57894737
24....43....HM........44....324.................................368....19.36842105
25....44....HM........16....150..................................166.....8.736842105
26....45....HM........31....200..................................231....12.15789474
27....46....HM........36....225..................................261....13.73684211
28....50....Q..........57..........................................57......3
29....68....N.........132...........................................132.....6.947368421

How embarrassing -- ONLY one chapter is multiple out of 29 = 0.0344827586 or 3.4%!

Perhaps check the above counts and tell us if they are incorrect or show how to manipulate.

JK- BUT you havnt answered my assertion. You claimed that removing verses would violate protection claimed by GOD. Meaning your claiming that no one should be able to remove verses or how do you understand that? So if there are two or more books in the world bith claiming to be Quran and one having less verses than the other HOW WOULD YOU TELL WHICH ONE IS THE TRUE QURAN? Can you answer that please?

God says the book is protected and the believers know this; you on the other hand believe in all things nineteen, therefore the burden of proof is on you so show us what happens if this simple verse is deleted...

21 Alif Lam Mim or flipped to Lam Alif Mim

JK- "ism" is an exception i must admit. And yes for any exception there must be good justification and there is in this case. Please see
http//submission.org/miracle/miracle19x.html

Feel free to reply to this thread.
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9597644.msg190391#msg190391

JK- Again this shows your probably not aware of RKs work.

Everything that I've read is a waste of time; mostly ignorant and absurd.

I know exactly what was done to manipulate the count.

JK- WAIT. STOP RIGHT HERE. WE ARE NOT TALKING ABOUT RANDOM COMBINATIONS OF LETTERS. THE TERMS MUST BE WORDS THAT EXIST IN THE ARABIC LANGUAGE. I thought that was clear but apparently not. Gibberish doesnt count otherwise ofcourse it would be non significant. MOREOVER the terms need to be ATTRIBUTES. So again HOW MANY ARABIC ATTRIBUTES HAVE GVS EQUAL 2698? Not many BECAUSE MOST NON GIBBERISH REAL ARABIC WORDS HAVE GVS LESS THAN 2000. That was my point.

Do you know how big 28 factorial = 3.04888345^1029 is?

That's all the electrons in 200 universes! lol I can't believe this discussion.

JK- Your forgetting that the alif counts are the most disputed even now. We dont even know for sure yet if RKs counts of "alif, laam , miim" etc are correct because of this very problem of identifying alif. Apparently you were not aware of this either. GOD Bless!

That is where it all started and now back to nowhere.

Peace

jonny_k

Peace "eid",

Peace jonny,

Pure conjecture to MAKE IT multiple, Qur?an states otherwise.
Likewise, to delete 9128-129 is pure conjecture to MAKE IT multiple.

Insignificant, inconsistent work done by the clueless presented in a shroud.

I simply asked which are consistently multiple in their chapters? Here, lets verify per 1736...

No....Ch Initials ..............................................Total...Total / 19

1......2....ALM??.4704....3205...2196...............10105...531.8421053
2......3....ALM??.2662....1896...1249.................5807...305.6315789
3......7....ALMS?.2648....1531...1164....97..........5440...286.3157895
4.....10....ALR??1356....916....257....................2529...133.1052632
5.....11....ALR??1418....797....325....................2540...133.6842105
6.....12....ALR??1375....812....257....................2444...128.6315789
7.....13....ALMR?..627....482....260....137...........1506....79.26315789
8.....14....ALR......618....453....160.....................1231....64.78947368
9.....15....ALR......525....324.....96.......................945....49.73684211
10....19....KHYAS..137....175....334....117....26.....789....41.52631579
11....20....TH........28....251................................279....14.68421053
12....26....TSM......33....94.....484........................611....32.15789474
13....27....TS........27....94..................................121.....6.368421053
14....28....TSM......19....102....460.......................581....30.57894737
15....29....ALM.....814....554....344.....................1712....90.10526316
16....30....ALM?...317....395....317.....................1029....54.15789474
17....31....ALM.....389....300....173.......................862....45.36842105
18....32....ALM.....279....155....158.......................592....31.15789474
19....36....YS........231....48.................................279....14.68421053
20....38....S..........29...........................................29.....1.526315789
21....40....HM........64....380................................444....23.36842105
22....41....HM........48....276................................324....17.05263158
23....42....HMAySQ.53....300.....98.....54....57........562....29.57894737
24....43....HM........44....324.................................368....19.36842105
25....44....HM........16....150..................................166.....8.736842105
26....45....HM........31....200..................................231....12.15789474
27....46....HM........36....225..................................261....13.73684211
28....50....Q..........57..........................................57......3
29....68....N.........132...........................................132.....6.947368421

How embarrassing -- ONLY one chapter is multiple out of 29 = 0.0344827586 or 3.4%!

Perhaps check the above counts and tell us if they are incorrect or show how to manipulate.

JK- Why is it insignificant? Dont you see a comparison has been done by dividing with ther nos and 19 CLEARLY STANDS OUT? How can tht be insignificant? ALSO would you say that just the initial "qaf" occuring exactly 57 times in each of the suras which have the initial "qaf" in them, although one sura is almost TWICE AS LONG as the other, is insignificant too?

God says the book is protected and the believers know this; you on the other hand believe in all things nineteen, therefore the burden of proof is on you so show us what happens if this simple verse is deleted...

21 Alif Lam Mim or flipped to Lam Alif Mim

JK- How do they know? How would they even know that this very statement itself is actually part of the Quran and thus from GOD? This is what you havnt told me yet. Hence youve not yet provided +ve evidence and your insiting for us to prove a -ve. This is a seriosuly fallacy. Regarding the flipping of alif lam meem sure one can but nobody is saying the findings are complete as of now. We'll have to see why that particular order in the future GW or whether it might need to be flipped which is unlikely though since all chapters have the same order.

Feel free to reply to this thread.
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9597644.msg190391#msg190391

JK- I will when i have time.

Everything that I've read is a waste of time; mostly ignorant and absurd.

JK- This is not an argument. Anyone can make this claim. You need to explain how.

I know exactly what was done to manipulate the count.

JK- Then you should point out the flaw in each individual point i made.

Do you know how big 28 factorial = 3.04888345^1029 is?

That's all the electrons in 200 universes! lol I can't believe this discussion.

That is where it all started and now back to nowhere.

Peace

JK- Again your not addressing the issue. There are not 3.xx^1029 words in the Arabic MUCH LESS ATTRIBUTES. Now please tell me how many attributes in Arabic are there approximately and how many of those have GVs=2698? That is the pt. GOD Bless!

unknownuser

Peace jonny,

JK- Why is it insignificant? Dont you see a comparison has been done by dividing with ther nos and 19 CLEARLY STANDS OUT? How can tht be insignificant? ALSO would you say that just the initial "qaf" occuring exactly 57 times in each of the suras which have the initial "qaf" in them, although one sura is almost TWICE AS LONG as the other, is insignificant too?

Are you serious -- CLEARLY STANDS OUT? WHERE?

No....Ch Initials ..............................................Total...Total / 19

1......2....ALM??.4704....3205...2196...............10105...531.8421053 NOT MULTIPLE!
2......3....ALM??.2662....1896...1249.................5807...305.6315789 NOT MULTIPLE!
3......7....ALMS?.2648....1531...1164....97..........5440...286.3157895 NOT MULTIPLE!
4.....10....ALR??1356....916....257....................2529...133.1052632 NOT MULTIPLE!
5.....11....ALR??1418....797....325....................2540...133.6842105 NOT MULTIPLE!
6.....12....ALR??1375....812....257....................2444...128.6315789 NOT MULTIPLE! 7.....13....ALMR?..627....482....260....137...........1506....79.26315789 NOT MULTIPLE! 8.....14....ALR......618....453....160.....................1231....64.78947368 NOT MULTIPLE! 9.....15....ALR......525....324.....96.......................945....49.73684211 NOT MULTIPLE! 10....19....KHYAS..137....175....334....117....26.....789....41.52631579 NOT MULTIPLE! 11....20....TH........28....251................................279....14.68421053 NOT MULTIPLE! 12....26....TSM......33....94.....484........................611....32.15789474 NOT MULTIPLE! 13....27....TS........27....94..................................121.....6.368421053 NOT MULTIPLE! 14....28....TSM......19....102....460.......................581....30.57894737 NOT MULTIPLE! 15....29....ALM.....814....554....344.....................1712....90.10526316 NOT MULTIPLE! 16....30....ALM?...317....395....317.....................1029....54.15789474 NOT MULTIPLE! 17....31....ALM.....389....300....173.......................862....45.36842105 NOT MULTIPLE! 18....32....ALM.....279....155....158.......................592....31.15789474 NOT MULTIPLE! 19....36....YS........231....48.................................279....14.68421053 NOT MULTIPLE! 20....38....S..........29...........................................29.....1.526315789 NOT MULTIPLE! 21....40....HM........64....380................................444....23.36842105 NOT MULTIPLE! 22....41....HM........48....276................................324....17.05263158 NOT MULTIPLE! 23....42....HMAySQ.53....300.....98.....54....57........562....29.57894737 NOT MULTIPLE! 24....43....HM........44....324.................................368....19.36842105 NOT MULTIPLE! 25....44....HM........16....150..................................166.....8.736842105 NOT MULTIPLE! 26....45....HM........31....200..................................231....12.15789474 NOT MULTIPLE! 27....46....HM........36....225..................................261....13.73684211 NOT MULTIPLE!
28....50....Q..........57..........................................57......3
29....68....N.........132...........................................132.....6.947368421 NOT MULTIPLE!

Qaf BIG DEAL! Here let's do a simple search and look for multiples...

In chapter 50 same as with 57 Qaf there are also 171 (19x9) Lam
In chapter 51 there are 19 H
In chapter 52 there are 38 Ayn and 19 H

IT MEANS NOTHING! In 114 chapters some will be multiple.

JK- Then you should point out the flaw in each individual point i made.

What points, that you do not understand basic probability, never bother check this for yourself.

JK- Again your not addressing the issue. There are not 3.xx^1029 words in the Arabic MUCH LESS ATTRIBUTES. Now please tell me how many attributes in Arabic are there approximately and how many of those have GVs=2698? That is the pt. GOD Bless!

#of electrons in 20 universes and you want me to waste time do your work for you to prove a pointless point. lol With infinity one can find anything and it is your claim, therefore you tell us.

You guys freak out every time you see something nineteen multiple -- IT MEANS NOTHING!

jonny_k

Peace "eid",

Peace jonny,

Are you serious -- CLEARLY STANDS OUT? WHERE?

No....Ch Initials ..............................................Total...Total / 19

1......2....ALM??.4704....3205...2196...............10105...531.8421053 NOT MULTIPLE!
2......3....ALM??.2662....1896...1249.................5807...305.6315789 NOT MULTIPLE!
3......7....ALMS?.2648....1531...1164....97..........5440...286.3157895 NOT MULTIPLE!
4.....10....ALR??1356....916....257....................2529...133.1052632 NOT MULTIPLE!
5.....11....ALR??1418....797....325....................2540...133.6842105 NOT MULTIPLE!
6.....12....ALR??1375....812....257....................2444...128.6315789 NOT MULTIPLE! 7.....13....ALMR?..627....482....260....137...........1506....79.26315789 NOT MULTIPLE! 8.....14....ALR......618....453....160.....................1231....64.78947368 NOT MULTIPLE! 9.....15....ALR......525....324.....96.......................945....49.73684211 NOT MULTIPLE! 10....19....KHYAS..137....175....334....117....26.....789....41.52631579 NOT MULTIPLE! 11....20....TH........28....251................................279....14.68421053 NOT MULTIPLE! 12....26....TSM......33....94.....484........................611....32.15789474 NOT MULTIPLE! 13....27....TS........27....94..................................121.....6.368421053 NOT MULTIPLE! 14....28....TSM......19....102....460.......................581....30.57894737 NOT MULTIPLE! 15....29....ALM.....814....554....344.....................1712....90.10526316 NOT MULTIPLE! 16....30....ALM?...317....395....317.....................1029....54.15789474 NOT MULTIPLE! 17....31....ALM.....389....300....173.......................862....45.36842105 NOT MULTIPLE! 18....32....ALM.....279....155....158.......................592....31.15789474 NOT MULTIPLE! 19....36....YS........231....48.................................279....14.68421053 NOT MULTIPLE! 20....38....S..........29...........................................29.....1.526315789 NOT MULTIPLE! 21....40....HM........64....380................................444....23.36842105 NOT MULTIPLE! 22....41....HM........48....276................................324....17.05263158 NOT MULTIPLE! 23....42....HMAySQ.53....300.....98.....54....57........562....29.57894737 NOT MULTIPLE! 24....43....HM........44....324.................................368....19.36842105 NOT MULTIPLE! 25....44....HM........16....150..................................166.....8.736842105 NOT MULTIPLE! 26....45....HM........31....200..................................231....12.15789474 NOT MULTIPLE! 27....46....HM........36....225..................................261....13.73684211 NOT MULTIPLE!
28....50....Q..........57..........................................57......3
29....68....N.........132...........................................132.....6.947368421 NOT MULTIPLE!

JK- ALIF suras have to be IGNORED FOR THE MOMENT because we dont yet have any consistent mehtod of identifying alifs in every case. Sorry i posted the third part of the article. Here this should show you
http//19.org/index.php?aid=61

Qaf BIG DEAL! Here let's do a simple search and look for multiples...

In chapter 50 same as with 57 Qaf there are also 171 (19x9) Lam
In chapter 51 there are 19 H
In chapter 52 there are 38 Ayn and 19 H

IT MEANS NOTHING! In 114 chapters some will be multiple.

JK- YES but WHY do the only two chapters which have "qaf" as their initials have qafs EXACTLY EQUAL 57, thus totalling 114 and that as we know is coincidentally!?? the no. of chapters in the Q(qaaf)uran.

What points, that you do not understand basic probability, never bother check this for yourself.

JK- Youve ignored my main point but lets move down shall we?

#of electrons in 20 universes and you want me to waste time do your work for you to prove a pointless point. lol With infinity one can find anything and it is your claim, therefore you tell us.

JK- ARE THERE AN INFINITE NO OF WORDS IN ARABIC? ARABIC MAY HAVE AT BEST 1M ATTRIBUTES. MOREOVER ARE THERE MANY ARABIC ATTRIBUTES HAVING GVS GREATER THAN 2000? Show me if there are because i dodnt think so. Most attributes in Arabic have GVs less than 2000 IMO. Show me otherwise.

You guys freak out every time you see something nineteen multiple -- IT MEANS NOTHING!

JK- NONSENSE. Bro Edip, myself and others are very critical of many claims of arbitary calcs. We differentiate between glass and diamond. Have you read Edip's debate with Ayman named "Intelligent ppls guide to code-19". If no i ask you to please do that first
http//19.org/index.php?aid=246
http//19.org/index.php?aid=250 (2nd round)
http//19.org/index.php?aid=275 (3rd round)
GOD Bless!

unknownuser

Peace jonny,

JK- ALIF suras have to be IGNORED FOR THE MOMENT because we dont yet have any consistent mehtod of identifying alifs in every case. Sorry i posted the third part of the article. Here this should show you
http//19.org/index.php?aid=61

Why IGNORED, because not multiple, shall we ignore alif in ?
Simple letter pop ?alif into browser and search text.

That site is full of lies; already gave you the exact counts, tell us which are not correct and we can search together...

JK- YES but WHY do the only two chapters which have "qaf" as their initials have qafs EXACTLY EQUAL 57, thus totalling 114 and that as we know is coincidentally!?? the no. of chapters in the Q(qaaf)uran.

The same reason there are 57 Qaf in chapter 14
The same reason there are 133 (19x7) Qaf in chapter 26
The same reason there are 38 Qaf in chapter 32
The same reason there are 38 Qaf in chapter 47
The same reason there are 19 Qaf in chapter 61

IT MEANS NOTHING!

This is basic probability; choose any prevalent letter and you?ll get multiples.

JK- Youve ignored my main point but lets move down shall we?

You have no point only conjecture, why this, why that, why why. lol

JK- ARE THERE AN INFINITE NO OF WORDS IN ARABIC? ARABIC MAY HAVE AT BEST 1M ATTRIBUTES. MOREOVER ARE THERE MANY ARABIC ATTRIBUTES HAVING GVS GREATER THAN 2000? Show me if there are because i dodnt think so. Most attributes in Arabic have GVs less than 2000 IMO. Show me otherwise.

You still don't get it, the pool is infinite and you found a meaningless conjecture like someone giving all the combinations for lotto and you freak out in amazement that you won; the same with Qaf in chapter 50 -- BIG DEAL!

JK- NONSENSE. Bro Edip, myself and others are very critical of many claims of arbitary calcs. We differentiate between glass and diamond. Have you read Edip's debate with Ayman named "Intelligent ppls guide to code-19". If no i ask you to please do that first

Waste time reading that site full of lies and miscounts, the land of the clueless.

Have little respect for people who believe 1974 special although this sounds cool...lol

http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=lTiSzFp4arg

peace

jonny_k

Peace "eid",

Peace jonny,

Why IGNORED, because not multiple, shall we ignore alif in ?
Simple letter pop ?alif into browser and search text.

That site is full of lies; already gave you the exact counts, tell us which are not correct and we can search together...

JK- According to RK ALL alif intiialed suras occur in mutliples of 19. BUT we are honest enough to admit that the alif counts are controversial. You can play around with alif counts since there is no consistent method shown yet for their counts. Submission.org claims to have reanalysed the counts and states that the sets of alif initialed suras occur in xples of 19 just like the HM sets. HOWEVER this still needs independent verification.

The same reason there are 57 Qaf in chapter 14
The same reason there are 133 (19x7) Qaf in chapter 26
The same reason there are 38 Qaf in chapter 32
The same reason there are 38 Qaf in chapter 47
The same reason there are 19 Qaf in chapter 61

IT MEANS NOTHING!

JK- But sice those two chapters are initialed by "qaf" it means something. And also the initials of suras 19, 36, 42 occur in xples of 19. Reg HM you should check this out
serach for "orchestra" at http//19.org/index.php?aid=246
Regarding sura 68 or sura NOON yes indeed the initial noon is to be spelled noon waw noon. The reason is justified by a verse in the Quran which mentions "ZAN NOON" i.e. "posessor of noon"
2187 And Zan-Noon (Jonah, "the one with an `N' in his name&quot, abandoned his mission in protest, thinking that we could not control him. He ended up imploring from the darkness (of the big fish's belly) "There is no god other than You. Be You glorified. I have committed a gross sin."
NOW in sura 68/noon there is one reference to "Jonah" termed as "sahibal hoot"
6848 You shall steadfastly persevere in carrying out the commands of your Lord. Do not be like (Jonah) who called from inside the fish(sahibal hoot).
NOTICE GOD didnt call him yuNus but instead used a term without "N". Then in another sura He refers to the SAME PERSON calling him "posessor of NOON" i.e. the one noon tht wld make 132 to 133=19x7. One must be blind not to see this relation. Is all this coincidence? If so explain to me the 2187.

This is basic probability; choose any prevalent letter and you?ll get multiples.

You have no point only conjecture, why this, why that, why why. lol

You still don't get it, the pool is infinite and you found a meaningless conjecture like someone giving all the combinations for lotto and you freak out in amazement that you won; the same with Qaf in chapter 50 -- BIG DEAL!

JK- THE POOL IS NOT INFINITE. There is NEVER an infinite amount of words in any language. Suppose there are 1B attributes. HOW MANY of those would have GVs = 2698. Perhaps 10.

Waste time reading that site full of lies and miscounts, the land of the clueless.

Ayman easily took you out and have little respect for people who believe 1974 special although this sounds cool...lol

http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=lTiSzFp4arg

peace

JK- Where did Ayman take me out? I addressed all his points regarding this issue and so did brother Edip. GOD Bless!

kn

Peace all,

Dera Kn where you get Bidha? from???? Please clarify.

Dear Alen

Please review the following. I am also trying to learn, so help us God.

304Within ten years! God?s is the Command in the past and in the future. On that day the believers too will have cause to rejoice.

( from ourbeacon.com )

Bidha = denoting less in number in single digit, and Sineen = years so any thing between about 3 to 9, word Bidha can be used as is written in this Ayat in connection with Sineen (years,) meaning less than 10. ( May God forgive me for possibly misspelling Bidha in English script here)

Just like Saba has been used do denote seven ( meaning several) Bidha has been used in above Ayat to denote a single digit number of years.

unknownuser

Peace jonny,

JK- According to RK ALL alif intiialed suras occur in mutliples of 19. BUT we are honest enough to admit that the alif counts are controversial.

No they are not controversial and he knowingly lied simple as that.

You can play around with alif counts since there is no consistent method shown yet for their counts.
I'm not playing, you are the ones manipulating; simply count alif.

Submission.org claims to have reanalysed the counts and states that the sets of alif initialed suras occur in xples of 19 just like the HM sets. HOWEVER this still needs independent verification.

It's obvious they are liars like their idol.

JK- But sice those two chapters are initialed by "qaf" it means something.

That SOMETHING is only (illa) in your head. lol

And also the initials of suras 19, 36, 42 occur in xples of 19.

NO THEY DO NOT! Instead of parroting lies check and verify?

19 KHYAS 137 + 175 + 334 + 117 + 26 = 789 NOT MULTIPLE!

36 YS 231 + 48 = 279 NOT MULTIPLE!

42 HMAySQ 53 + 300 + 98 + 54 + 57 = 562 NOT MULTIPLE!

Reg HM you should check this out
serach for "orchestra" at http//19.org/index.php?aid=246

More clueless stuff about 1974; wast of time.
Already told you NONE of the initialed chapters are multiple only one.

Regarding sura 68 or sura NOON yes indeed the initial noon is to be spelled noon waw noon.
Manipulation to make nineteen; changing adds another initial
ww

Is all this coincidence? If so explain to me the 2187.

Conjecture and nothing to explain the pen 681 has little to do with 2187

JK- THE POOL IS NOT INFINITE. There is NEVER an infinite amount of words in any language. Suppose there are 1B attributes. HOW MANY of those would have GVs = 2698. Perhaps 10.

You still don?t get it; you conjectured and found a combination GV = 2698; with 28 letters there are close to INFINITE combinations with GV=2698, no reason to freak out that you found one. lol

JK- Where did Ayman take me out?

It?s obvious you did not even bother to count. Here is chapter 36 YS simply do a search

y? mu?jamah gv=10 (total 211)
y? muhmalah gv=10 (total 20)

211 + 20 = 231

sn gv=60 (total 4

231 + 48 = 279 NOT MULTIPLE!

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unknownuser

Forgot to include (y hamza) gv =10 changes count although still not multiple.

19 KHYAS 137 + 175 + 349 + 117 + 26 = 804 NOT MULTIPLE!

36 YS 242 + 48 = 290 NOT MULTIPLE!

y hamza gv=10 (total 11 )
y? mu?jamah gv=10 (total 211)
y? muhmalah gv=10 (total 20 )

11 + 211 + 20 = 242

sn gv=60 (total 4

unknownuser

I see no reply to the above.

Alright, had time to waste look at this 2698 stuff plastered on the web.
http//www.quran.org/math.htm

Dr. Cesar Adib Majul, in his book "The Attributes of Allah in Relation To The Mathematical Structure of Quran" discovered the following two facts

Only four attributes of God have gematrical (numerical) values that are a multiple of 19, i.e. Wahed, Zul fadlil 'azeem, Majeed, and Jami'.
The numerical values of these four attributes correspond exactly to the frequency of the four words of "basmalah," in the Quran; that is, 19, 2698, 57, and 114.

Removing 9128-129 is ONLY (illa) fitna and here are more "attributes" also multiples...

3152 ?and God full of grace on the believers.
waAllahu thoo fadlin AAala almu/mineena

700 + 6 + 80 + 800 + 30 + 70 + 30 + 10 + 1 + 30 + 40 + 10 + 40 + 50 + 10 + 50 = 1957 / 19 = 103

3163 and God seeing with what they do.
waAllahu baseerun bima yaAAmaloona

(2 + 90 + 10 + 200) + (2 + 40 + 1) + (10 + 70 + 40 + 30 + 6 + 50) = 551 / 19 = 29

866 and God (is) with the patient.
waAllahu maAAa alssabireena

40 + 70 + 1 + 30 + 90 + 1 + 2 + 200 + 10 + 50 = 494 / 19 = 26

1219 and God knowledgeable with what they make/do.
waAllahu AAaleemun bima yaAAmaloona

70 + 30 + 10 + 40 + 2 + 40 + 1 + 10 + 70 + 40 + 30 + 6 + 50 = 399 / 19 = 21

Peace,

jonny_k

Peace "eid",

Peace jonny,
No they are not controversial and he knowingly lied simple as that.

JK- They ARE CONTROVERSIAL and you not knowing this just shows your ignorance on the subject. If you look at the manuscripts in ciculation today youll find hell lot more alifs filled in which you wont find in the older manuscripts mostly indicating a "hamza" pronounciation. You can look this up for yourself. Eg in 2132 we have "wa Awsa" with alif in warsh and "wawasa" WITHOUT alif in hafs.

I'm not playing, you are the ones manipulating; simply count alif.

JK- If it were that simple then why dont you accept the counts revised by submission.org as of now
http//www.submission.org/miracle/alif.html
In that case the alif lam meem sets act just like the HM sets. YET im not claiming these counts are correct for they still require independent verification. Bro Edip would tell you the same. So it aint all that clear is it?

It's obvious they are liars like their idol.

JK- "Liar" means one who delibaretely puts up false information. This is a big accusation your hurling at them and hence your appealing to emotions rather than reason.

That SOMETHING is only (illa) in your head. lol

JK- Ok i get it your claiming it to be non significant whilst i clearly dont.

NO THEY DO NOT! Instead of parroting lies check and verify?

19 KHYAS 137 + 175 + 334 + 117 + 26 = 789 NOT MULTIPLE!

JK- I believe you ignored the subtle "ya"s as in "la-In" in 1946 for example. The auto count wont give you that easily. http//www.submission.org/quran/reader/arabic/v-19.htm

36 YS 231 + 48 = 279 NOT MULTIPLE!

JK- http//www.submission.org/quran/reader/arabic/v-36.htm

42 HMAySQ 53 + 300 + 98 + 54 + 57 = 562 NOT MULTIPLE!

JK- http//www.submission.org/quran/reader/arabic/v-42.htm
MAN these counts have BEEN VERIFIED BY BRO LAYTH AND OTHERS AS WELL. Your not paying attention to the subtle "ya"s. Here check this too
http//www.free-minds.org/sites/default/files/19.pdf

More clueless stuff about 1974; wast of time.
Already told you NONE of the initialed chapters are multiple only one.

JK- You must be using a wrong counter or some other manuscript. Check the above article carefully.

Manipulation to make nineteen; changing adds another initial
ww

JK- The "waw" is justified from "Zan NOON" which has "noon" spelled as "noon WAW noon" in it. He is the "posessor of Noon waw Noon".

Conjecture and nothing to explain the pen 681 has little to do with 2187

JK- It has little to do? Then why does chapter 68 have exatly one less noon than 133 which is ZMN and at the same time in another chapter we find GOD talking about a "POSESSOR OF NOON WAW NOON"? Is this coincidence? Explain to me the significance of 2187 then.

You still don?t get it; you conjectured and found a combination GV = 2698; with 28 letters there are close to INFINITE combinations with GV=2698, no reason to freak out that you found one. lol

JK- There are IFNINTE RANDOM COMBINATIONS YES BUT NOT REAL ARABIC WORDS. Thats what your not getting so either your fooling around with me by not addressing this or you didnt get my point.

It?s obvious you did not even bother to count. Here is chapter 36 YS simply do a search

y? mu?jamah gv=10 (total 211)
y? muhmalah gv=10 (total 20)

211 + 20 = 231

sn gv=60 (total 4

231 + 48 = 279 NOT MULTIPLE!

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JK- Check 19-fact or fiction above. These counts have been VERIFIED. GOD Bless!

jonny_k

Peace "eid",
Remember when your coutning "ha" you need to include "ta marboota" and the count of "ya" is also a bit difficult for one needs to look at the subtle "ya"s as well(as in "BiduaIk" in 194 contains a subtle "ya&quot. The auto count makes this almost impossible and hence this letter shld be counted manually. ALSO I beleive you excluded the count of the initials in the BISMILLAHS whilst ive specifically told you before that whilst counting initials they have been CONSISTENTLY included. Here are the counts of those suras listed again
http//www.submission.org/quran/reader/arabic/v-19.htm
http//www.submission.org/quran/reader/arabic/v-36.htm
http//www.submission.org/quran/reader/arabic/v-42.htm
You may check the other HM chapters as well by just typing in "v-x" where x is sura no at the above address.
http//www.submission.org/quran/reader/arabic/v-68.htm
Check them carefully. GOD Bless!

jonny_k

Peace again "Eid",
Here I'm just going to point out the mistakes you probably made in your counts of initials in sura 19. Your counts of kaf, ain and sad are correct. Your net count of ha also came out to be correct even though i suspect you didn't count the one in the BISM. This is probably because you falsely inlcuded the "ha" of "rahmat" in verse 192 which in the original manuscript is spelled out "ra Ha meem TA" NOT "ra Ha meem ha/ta marboota". Lastly your count of ya is FALSE. There are 343 yas in total. You made quite a few mistakes here. First you didnt include the ya of the BISMILLAH. Then you probably didnt count the ya of "fanadaaha" and "'ataniya" in 1924 and 1930 respectively. Lastly you probably forgot to include the 6 undotted yas with hamza on top. Those include the yas of the terms "biduaika", "jita", "la-in", "ulaaika", "faulaaika" and "jitum" each having one ya.

Thus we get 313 yas (dotted) + 22 yas (undotted) + 6 yas (hamza on top and undotted) + 1 ya (1924 fanadA(YA)ha) + 1 ya (1930 ?atA(YA)niya) = 343 yas.

This makes the total of the initials in sura 19 equal 137 + 175 + 343 + 117 + 26 = 798 = 19 X 42

GOD Bless!

jonny_k

Peace again "Eid",
Rearding the "initial" waw i want to make a comment i didnt do above. Waw is NOT an initial of itself. It's the letter NOON which is spelled out so as to give it's pronounciation. Without "waw" how would you say "possesor of Noon"? You cant say "zan NN" for that is not the correct pronounciation of NOON. This doesnt make waw into an initial of its own. Think of sura 68 having ONLY ONE INITIAL SPELLED OUT AS PRONOUNCED. GOD Bless!

unknownuser

Peace jonny,

JK- They ARE CONTROVERSIAL and you not knowing this just shows your ignorance on the subject.

Yes I am fully aware of their need to manipulate hamza and alif to manipulate the count and people who believe nineteen are the most ignorant on the planet.

JK- "Liar" means one who delibaretely puts up false information. This is a big accusation your hurling at them and hence your appealing to emotions rather than reason.

INSTEAD OF BEING A PARROT -- COUNT!

JK- I believe you ignored the subtle "ya"s as in "la-In" in 1946 for example. The auto count wont give you that easily. http//www.submission.org/quran/reader/arabic/v-19.htm

DO YOU EVER READ WHAT PEOPLE POST?

NOTHING from submission.org is reliable -- they are known manipulators and liars!

Forgot to include (y hamza) gv =10 changes count although still not multiple.

19 KHYAS 137 + 175 + 349 + 117 + 26 = 804 NOT MULTIPLE!

36 YS 242 + 48 = 290 NOT MULTIPLE!

y hamza gv=10 (total 11 )
y? mu?jamah gv=10 (total 211)
y? muhmalah gv=10 (total 20 )

11 + 211 + 20 = 242

sn gv=60 (total 4

MAN these counts have BEEN VERIFIED BY BRO LAYTH AND OTHERS AS WELL. Your not paying attention to the subtle "ya"s.

JK- You must be using a wrong counter or some other manuscript.

Here I've color coded the different ya's simply COUNT!!!

19 K H Y A S 137 + 175 + 349 + 117 + 26 = 804 NOT MULTIPLE!

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unknownuser

Peace jonny,

Waw is NOT an initial of itself.

Why NOT, you want to change N the pen to fit that stupid code of the ignorants.

JK- There are IFNINTE RANDOM COMBINATIONS YES BUT NOT REAL ARABIC WORDS. Thats what your not getting so either your fooling around with me by not addressing this or you didnt get my point.

Again -- DO YOU READ WHAT PEOPLE POST?

ARE THESE NOT REAL ARABIC WORDS FROM QUR'AN?