Question for Arnold Yasin - God does not break his laws
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Sorry to say, but the Qur'an is very clear on the father issue. But people can believe what they want.
As for the stopping, I have already answered it before. God has made the universe in such a way that it responses to human action. When a person acts accordign to the Revelation, the universe will bring out possibilities for that person which protects him from harm when needed. This has already been programmed into the universe.
As God programmed the universe, He Himself stopped the people from harming Jesus, but He used the laws of the universe.
And Malikah are the laws of the universe by my understanding. The word "angel" is the name of a Greek mythological creature which has no connection at all with the Arabic word Malikah.
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No I do not believe Jesus was born without a father as there is not any good reason why this hsould have happenned. It contains no message, it doesn't guide people. It is just a myth that was created a century after Jesus. The bible clearly says he had a father. Paul in his Letters constantly refers to Joseph the father of Jesus, Jesus the son of Joseph.
Let's see what the Qur'an has to say
In surah An-Aam verse 84-87 Allah mentions names of 18 prophets at a stretch. Of these, verse 86 specifically mentions name of Isa as "?. And Zakariyya, and Yahya and Isa and Ilyas - everyone was of the righteous." After stating the names of the 18 prophets, in the very next verse 88 Allah goes on to say that
688 And from among their fathers and their descendants and their brethren. And We chose them and We guided them towards the Right Path.
It means Prophet jesus had
1Father
2Descendants
3Brothers
Who were prophets
May I ask you their names or at least any prophet you know who was between Jesus and Prophet Muhammad ??.
Secondly ,my major concern was not fatherhood of Jesus rather it was Dr Shabbir 's lame aruguement who was thinking that for procreation mate is must and he was considering it as a "law of nature".When a person talks like this it means
1Either he is ignorant or
2He is deceiving the people.In another post your said
And Malikah are the laws of the universe by my understanding. The word "angel" is the name of a Greek mythological creature which has no connection at all with the Arabic word Malikah.
I will appreciate if you could provide the "arabic word" for "angel".
Thanks -
perhaps one can look at these miracles in a different way,
it doesn't have to be looked at as God not being able to create universe that runs itself or God not being smart enough...can it be looked at as God demonstrating power, showing that He has the power to change His laws?
since these miracles were shown as a sign, a few times, not always as if God can't make a perfect universe -
Peace,
What has being guided to do with being a Prophet? Nothing! We are guided too by the Qur'an, are we Prophets? So your question is pointless.
24 Those who acknowledge what was sent
down to you, and what was sent down
before you, and regarding the Hereafter
they are certain.*25 These are the ones guided by their Lord,
and these are the winners.And in the multiple choice you put out, I choose all three. If you do otherwise is your own choice. And what Dr.Shabbir says or does is not my concern, nor what your opinion is of him. We are discussing here, don't go deviating from the subject.
Malikah can be used for many things. The Arabs used it for their own mythological creatures and for forces of nature which they understood as gods and powerful spirits. But the meaning of Malikah describes something, a force that controls a certain thing. There is no need to blindly follow the mytholigical ideas of the ancient of any culture. We only need to follow the Arabic meanings.
Nerspi
God already showed power by CREATING the universe. Why ask for more signs then nature itself?
8817-21 Will they not, then, look at
- the water-laden clouds, how they are made? (1522).
- And at the sky, how it is raised high? (Without visible pillars 132).
- And at the mountains, how they are entrenched?
- And at the Earth, how it is spread out? (That you do not even feel the sphere, nor feel its speedy rotations 3110, 395, 7928-30).
Remind them, for you are one to remind.
2164 (Never does Allah propose blind faith.) Behold, there are ample Signs In the creation of the Heavens and the Earth, and the alternation of the night and the day - and the ships that roam the ocean for the benefit of mankind - and the water that Allah sends down from the sky, thereby giving life to the land after it had been lifeless - and in dispersing a great variety of creatures therein - and in the currents of winds - and the clouds subservient between the high atmosphere and the Earth. All these are clear Signs for those who exercise their intellect. (The Universe is too organized to be the result of an accident 673.)
1679 Have they not considered the birds enabled to fly in mid-air, with none but Allah holding them aloft? (2471). In this, behold, are messages for those who wish to attain conviction through reason.
4013 He it is Who shows you His Signs in the Universe and sends down sustenance for you from the sky. Yet none learns a lesson except those who turn to seek the Truth.
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Dear Arnold
You have not answered my question regarding Jesus brothers and descendants who are prophets ?Because according to your referenced aya there are prophets in Jesus's descendants.
You have not asnwered my question about the "arabic word for angels" .
Still waiting.Please respond just in one or two sentences.
How many prophets between Jesus and prophets Muhammad in the descendants of jesus ?
What is the Arabic word for "angel" ?
Thanks -
I have answered them. The Qur'an doesn't mention Prophets between Jesus and Muhammed. But it also says God hasn't mentioned all Prophets. So your question is pointless.
But back to MY question!
What has being guided immediately to do with being a Prophet? Read 24 please...
And for angel
Malikah can be used for many things. The Arabs used it for their own mythological creatures and for forces of nature which they understood as gods and powerful spirits. But the meaning of Malikah describes something, a force that controls a certain thing. There is no need to blindly follow the mytholigical ideas of the ancient of any culture. We only need to follow the Arabic meanings.If the Arabs believed Christian angels were the same as Arabian Malikah we do not know. But that doesn't matter, as we do not need to follow their mythological ideas of the universe. We only need to follow the Arabic descriptions of the root meaning.
Or do you want to remain in the bronze age?
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I have answered them. The Qur'an doesn't mention Prophets between Jesus and Muhammed. But it also says God hasn't mentioned all Prophets. So your question is pointless.
But back to MY question!
What has being guided immediately to do with being a Prophet? Read 24 please...
And for angel
Malikah can be used for many things. The Arabs used it for their own mythological creatures and for forces of nature which they understood as gods and powerful spirits. But the meaning of Malikah describes something, a force that controls a certain thing. There is no need to blindly follow the mytholigical ideas of the ancient of any culture. We only need to follow the Arabic meanings.If the Arabs believed Christian angels were the same as Arabian Malikah we do not know. But that doesn't matter, as we do not need to follow their mythological ideas of the universe. We only need to follow the Arabic descriptions of the root meaning.
Or do you want to remain in the bronze age?
So you want to say there were prophets between Jesus and prophet Muhammad in the descendants of Jesus
-Which are not mentioned in the Quran
-Even the History does not know
-As a muslim you beleive in the intemediary prophets.
-Quran does talke about bible but does not mention this intermediary revelation (why?) and the followers of these "prophets".Please simply fill in the blank if you can (detailed circumvented explanations)
English =Angel
Arabic = ??
These dilly dally explanation indicate that concept is not clear in your mind.Thanks for you time.
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Dear Leoxyz,
You are avoiding the questions, where does the verse refer to Prophets? Nowhere. It refers to being guided to the Path. This is what we ask in Al-Fatiha. It has nothing to do wtih Prophets. So who is avoiding the truth?
And have I become to technical, you need simple language, sadly language isn't that simple, especially when we are talking about two different languages with two different mythologies and meanings. Angel refers to a creature, a being. Malikah refers to something with power and control, so it refers to an ability. Arabs used this descriptions of this ability for many things. We don't need to follow them in their understanding, we only need to follow the language.
These concepts are very clear. That you don't accept them is a different story.
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Please look at your quoted verse
688 And from among their fathers and their descendants and their brethren. And We chose them and We guided them towards the Right Path.Would you please explain this phrase "chose them"?? Are they prophets or not ? Is this word used for non -prophets in the Quran?
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2277 O you who acknowledge, kneel and
prostrate and serve your Lord and do
good that you may succeed.
2278 Strive in the cause of God properly. He
is the One who has chosen you, and He
has made no hardship for you in the
system, the creed of your father
Abraham; He is the One who named
you 'those who have peacefully
surrendered' from before as well as in
this. So let the messenger be witness
over you and you be witness over
people. So hold the contact prayer and
contribute towards betterment and hold
tight to God, He is your patron. What
an excellent Patron, and what an
excellent Supporter.Does this mean we are all Prophets now?
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Peace Arnold,
What has being guided to do with being a Prophet? Nothing! We are guided too by the Qur'an, are we Prophets? So your question is pointless.
No, and as stated before...
From their fathers is a subset. The same logic would assume all had children and brothers guided as well.
1946 He said "Are you turning away from my gods, you Abraham? If you do not stop, I will stone you, and leave me a long/life time."
127-8 In Joseph and his brothers (there) had been signs/evidences to the askers/questioners. When they said "Joseph, and his brother, (are) more lovable to our father than us, and we (are) a group, that truly our father (is) in clear/evident misguidance."
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This is a weak argument as this refers to some of them being guided or not, this does not refer to not having a father or not.
But we can agree to disagree on this.
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This is a weak argument as this refers to some of them being guided or not, this does not refer to not having a father or not.
But we can agree to disagree on this.
If stated ALL then Qur'an would contradict and I could never agree to that.
Peace
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2277 O you who acknowledge, kneel and
prostrate and serve your Lord and do
good that you may succeed.
2278 Strive in the cause of God properly. He
is the One who has chosen you, and He
has made no hardship for you in the
system, the creed of your father
Abraham; He is the One who named
you 'those who have peacefully
surrendered' from before as well as in
this. So let the messenger be witness
over you and you be witness over
people. So hold the contact prayer and
contribute towards betterment and hold
tight to God, He is your patron. What
an excellent Patron, and what an
excellent Supporter.Does this mean we are all Prophets now?
Dear Arnold
You are doing exactly what Dr Shabbir is doing on his website.
The exact verses under discussion are
(84) (85) (86) (87) (8 (89)After mentioning all these names ,their fathers ,brothers ,descendants ,Allah says these are people who were given by us
-Kitaab
-Alhukm
-NabuwwatIs this talk about prophets or not ?
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Verse 89 is clearly refering to the Prophets mentioned in verses 83 till 86, which more logical. If you disagree, then we are disagreeing.
Peace
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Peace Arnold Yasin
How about the following acts by God, what do you call them?
1- When God sent a table of food from heaven to Jesus and his Disciples
Behold! the Disciples said "O Jesus the son of Mary! can thy Lord send down to us a table set (with viands) from heaven?" Said Jesus "Fear Allah if ye have faith." (5-112) They said "We only wish to eat thereof and satisfy our hearts, and to know that thou hast indeed told us the truth; and that we ourselves may be witnesses to the miracle. (5-113) Said Jesus the son of Mary "O Allah our Lord! send us from heaven a Table set (with viands), that there may be for us for the first and the last of us a solemn festival and a sign from Thee; and provide for our sustenance, for Thou art the best Sustainer (of our needs). (5-114) Allah said "I will send it down unto you but if any of you after that resisteth faith I will punish him with a penalty such as I have not inflicted on anyone among all the peoples. (5-115)
2-When God made Mary pregnant with Christ, without a male intervention
Behold! the angels said "O Mary! Allah giveth thee glad tidings of a Word from Him his name will be Christ Jesus, the son of Mary held in honour in this world and the Hereafter and of (the company of) those nearest to Allah. (3-45) "He shall speak to the people in childhood And in maturity and he shall be (of the company) of the righteous." (3-46) She said "O my Lord! how shall I have a son when no man hath touched me?" He said "Even so Allah createth what He willeth; when He hath decreed a plan, He but saith to it `Be', and it is! (3-47)
3- When God made the Fire Cool
We said "O Fire! Be thou cool, and (a means of)) safety for Abraham!" (21-69)
4- When God divided the Sea
Then We told Moses by inspiration "Strike the sea with thy rod." So it divided, and each separate part become like the huge, firm mass of a mountain. (26-63)
5- When God lifted the Mountain on the top of The Children of Israeli
And remember We took your covenant and We raised above you the towering height of Mount (Sinai) (saying) "Hold firmly to what We have given you and bring (ever) to remembrance what is therein perchance ye may fear Allah." (63)
6- When God spoke to Moses, made his stick a sneak, and his hand white
Has the story of Moses reached thee? (20-9) Behold, he saw a fire so he said to his family "Tarry ye; I perceive a fire; perhaps I can bring you some burning brand therefrom or find some guidance at the fire." (10) But when he came to the fire, a voice was heard "O Moses! (11) "Verily I am thy Lord! Therefore (in My presence) put off thy shoes thou art in the sacred valley Tuwa. (12) "I have chosen thee listen then, to the inspiration (sent to thee). (13) "Verily I am Allah there is no god but I so serve thou Me, (only) and establish regular prayer for celebrating My praise. (14) "Verily the Hour is coming My design is to keep it hidden for every soul to receive its reward by the measure of its Endeavour. (15) "Therefore let not such as believe not therein but follow their own lusts, divert thee therefrom, lest thou perish!" (16) And what is that in thy right hand, O Moses?" (17) He said "It is my rod on it I lean; with it I beat down fodder for my flocks; and in it I find other uses." (1 (Allah) said "Throw it, O Moses!" (19) He threw it, and behold! it was a snake, active in motion. (20) (Allah) said "Seize it, and fear not We shall return it at once to its former condition"? (21) Now draw thy hand close to thy side it shall come forth white (and shining), without harm (or stain) as another Sign (22) "In order that We may show thee (two) of Our Greater Signs. (23)
7- How about prophet Salmon and David power that were given to them by God (e.g., speak to birds, control the wind and Jin)
I call these direct interventions by God.
Peace
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Peace,
And I call them mistranslations, misunderstandings of the Arabic idioms and contradictions with the Quranic message.
I have answered your answers in this essay
http//deenrc.files.wordpress.com/2008/03/the-evolution-of-thinking.pdf
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8- How about the animal that God will make him speak?
(٢
And when the Word is fulfilled against them (the unjust), We shall produce from the earth an animal (Daba) to speak to them saying for that mankind did not believe with assurance in our Signs (verses). (27-82)
9- How about the Cave People who slept for 309 years, and then woke up?
Or dost thou reflect that the Companions of the Cave and of the Inscription were wonders among Our Signs? (18-9) Behold, the youths betook themselves to the Cave they said "Our Lord! Bestow on us Mercy from Thyself, and dispose of our affair for us in the right way! (10) Then We drew (a veil) over their ears, for a number of years, in the Cave, (so that they heard not) (11) Then We roused them, in order to test which of the two parties was best at calculating the term of years they had tarried! (12) We relate to thee their story in truth they were youths who believed in their Lord, and We advanced them in guidance (13) We gave strength to their hearts behold, they stood up and said "Our Lord is the Lord of the heavens and of the earth never shall we call upon any god other than Him if we did; we should indeed have uttered an enormity!" (14) "These our people have taken for worship gods other than Him why do they not bring forward an authority clear (and convincing) for what they do? Who doth more wrong than such as invent a falsehood against Allah? (15) "When ye turn away from them and the things they worship other than Allah betake yourselves to the Cave your Lord will shower His mercies on you and dispose of your affair towards comfort and ease." (16) Thou wouldst have seen the sun, when it rose, declining to the right from their Cave, and when it set, turning away from them to the left while they lay in the open space in the midst of the Cave. Such are among the Signs of Allah he whom Allah guides; but he whom Allah leaves to stray for him wilt thou find no protector to lead him to the Right Way. (17) Thou wouldst have deemed them awake, whilst they were asleep, and We turned them on their right and their left sides their dog stretching forth his two forelegs on the threshold if thou hadst come up on to them, thou wouldst have certainly turned back from them in flight, and wouldst certainly have been filled with terror of them. (1 Such (being their state), We raised them up (from sleep), that they might question each other. Said one of them "How long have ye stayed (here)?" They said "We have stayed (perhaps) a day or part of a day." (At length) they (all) said "Allah (alone) knows best how long ye have stayed here...Now send ye then one of you with this money of yours to the town let him find out which is the best food (to be had) and bring some to you, that (ye may satisfy hunger therewith) and let him behave with care and courtesy, and let him not inform anyone about you. (19) "For if thy should come upon you, they would stone you or force you to return to their cult, and in that case ye would never attain prosperity." (20) Thus did We make their case known to the people, that they might know that the promise of Allah is true, and that there can be no doubt about the Hour of Judgment. Behold, they dispute among themselves as to their affair. (Some) said "Construct a building over them" their Lord knows best about them those who prevailed over their affair said "Let us surely build a place of worship over them." (21) (Some) say they were three, the dog being the fourth among them; (others) say they were five, the dog being the sixth doubtfully guessing at the unknown; (yet others) say they were seven, the dog being the eighth. Say thou "My Lord knoweth best their number; it is but few that know their (real case)." Enter not, therefore, into controversies concerning them, except on a matter that is clear, nor consult any of them about (the affair of) the Sleepers. (22) Nor say of anything, "I shall be sure to do so and so tomorrow" (23) Without adding, "So please Allah!" And call thy Lord to mind when thou forgettest, and say "I hope that my Lord will guide me ever closer (even) than this to the right road." (24) So they stayed in their Cave three hundred years, and (some) add nine (more). (25)
10- How about the Person who destroyed the poor people ship, Killed a Kid, and built a fence in a top of treasure, following God?s orders?
So they found one of Our servants on whom We had bestowed Mercy from Ourselves and whom We had taught knowledge from Our own presence. (18-65) Moses said to him "May I follow thee, on the footing that thou teach me something of the (Higher) Truth which thou hast been taught?" (66) (The other) said "Verily thou wilt not be able to have patience with me! (67) "And how canst thou have patience about things about which thy understanding is not complete?" (6 Moses said "Thou wilt find me, if Allah so will (truly) patient nor shall I disobey thee in aught." (69) The other said "If then thou wouldst follow me, ask me no questions about anything until I myself speak to thee concerning it." (70) So they both proceeded until, when they were in the boat, he scuttled it. Said Moses "Hast thou scuttled it in order to drown those in it? Truly a strange thing hast thou done!" (71) He answered "Did I not tell thee that thou canst have no patience with me?" (72) Moses said "Rebuke me not for forgetting, nor grieve me by raising difficulties in my case." (73) Then they proceeded until, when they met a young man, he slew him. Moses said "Hast thou slain an innocent person who had slain none? Truly a foul (unheard-of) thing hast thou done!" (74) He answered "Did I not tell thee that thou canst have no patience with me?" (75) (Moses) said "If ever I ask thee about anything after this, keep me not in thy company then wouldst thou have received (full) excuse from my side." (76) Then they proceeded until, when they came to the inhabitants of a town, they asked them for food, but they refused them hospitality. They found there a wall on the point of falling down, but he set it up straight. (Moses) said "If thou hadst wished, surely thou couldst have exacted some recompense for it!" (77) He answered "This is the parting between me and thee now will I tell thee the interpretation of (those things) over which thou wast unable to hold patience. (7 As for the boat, it belonged to certain men in dire want they plied on the water I but wished to render it unserviceable, for there was after them a certain king who seized on every boat by force. (79) "As for the youth his parents were people of Faith, and we feared that he would grieve them by obstinate rebellion and ingratitude (to Allah and man). (80) "So we desired that their Lord would give them in exchange (a son) better in purity (of conduct) and closer in affection. (81) "As for the wall it, belonged to two youths, orphans in the Town; there was, beneath it, a buried treasure, to which they were entitled their father had been a righteous man so thy Lord desired that they should attain their age of full strength and get out their treasure a mercy (and favour) from thy Lord. I did it not of my own accord. Such is the interpretation of (those things) over which thou wast unable to hold patience." (82)
11- How about the person whom God made him and his donkey dead for 100 years; and then made them alive again?
Or (take) the similitude of one who passed by a hamlet, all in ruins to its roofs. He said "Oh! how shall Allah bring it (ever) to life, after (this) its death?" But Allah caused him to die for a hundred years, then raised him up (again). He said "How long didst thou tarry (thus)?" He said "(perhaps) a day or part of a day." He said "Nay, thou hast tarried thus a hundred years; but look at thy food and thy drink; they show no signs of age; and look at thy donkey and that We may make of thee a Sign unto the people Look further at the bones, how We bring them together and clothe them with flesh! When this was shown clearly to him he said "I know that Allah hath power over all things." (2-259)
These examples are not in your mentioned research, what do you think about them?
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37 He is the One who sent down to you the
book, from which there are definite
signs; they are the essence of the book;
and others, which are multiple-meaning.
As for those who have disease in their
hearts, eager to cause confusion and
eager to derive their interpretation, they
will follow what is multiple-meaning
from it. But none knows their meaning
except God and those who are well
founded in knowledge; they say, "We
acknowledge it, all is from our Lord."
None will remember except the people
of intellect.We must never forget that Qur'an also uses allegories.