Why do you beleive the Quran to be the Word of GOD?
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Peace Khyaletanzim,
It is true that the Quran you read today is a copy and a translation. It is NOT the original. If you don't believe me, that's your choice; but I challenge you to walk into a local masjid (i.e. mosque) and ask them for a copy of the ORIGINAL message written by Muhammad. You'll probably be laughed at and chased out of there by insults and chastisements... ) Do you actually believe that when you open your household Quran, you are actually reading the original Quranic manuscript written by Muhammad? I sure hope not, brother...
My last question If Quran is with God Then please tell me Where do you Get your Guidance? brickwall
I get my guidance from a COPY of the scripture delivered to the prophet Muhammad, just like all modern-day muslims do. By reading a purified version of this Quran, which is perfectly symmetrical and in harmony with no discrepancies, I develop my ideologies regarding the system of islam/submission, and I apply the principles inherent in the religion through the scriptures...
Peace,
Ahmad
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Dear Ahmad bilal,
Please tell me where do you get that copy. Kindly tell me where to Get that copy. If you have some link let me know.
Regards.
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Peace Afridi220,
No where just remove as many versese as you wish to purify it & brickwall
Allah will judge your mockery of His message and your rejection of His signs. By your statement, you have clearly shown your incredible ignorance, and you have made a mockery of the Qur'an. And surely, God will be the judge of all things.
Peace Khyaletanzim,
Please tell me where do you get that copy. Kindly tell me where to Get that copy. If you have some link let me know.
There is no link. The True Qur'an is not physical, it is spiritual. By reading the physical manifestation of the message, Allah explains His words for those with pure minds and hearts, and He grants these wisdom and understanding... If you wish to study the pure message of God, surely He will guide you to it. Now, in my personal opinion, Dr. Rashad Khalifa has a pretty good translation of the scriptures, and I think you will benefit from reading his copy, since it is free from sectarian views. Brother Edip Yuksel also has a decent translation of the scriptures, and I think you will benefit from reading his as well. However, if you want to read the True Qur'an, this only comes from Allah, and He alone is the provider of wisdom and knowledge, and He keeps His scriptures in a "preserved tablet".
Peace,
Ahmad
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Peace Afridi220,
Allah will judge your mockery of His message and your rejection of His signs. By your statement, you have clearly shown your incredible ignorance, and you have made a mockery of the Qur'an. And surely, God will be the judge of all things.
Peace Khyaletanzim,
There is no link. The True Qur'an is not physical, it is spiritual. By reading the physical manifestation of the message, Allah explains His words for those with pure minds and hearts, and He grants these wisdom and understanding... If you wish to study the pure message of God, surely He will guide you to it. Now, in my personal opinion, Dr. Rashad Khalifa has a pretty good translation of the scriptures, and I think you will benefit from reading his copy, since it is free from sectarian views. Brother Edip Yuksel also has a decent translation of the scriptures, and I think you will benefit from reading his as well. However, if you want to read the True Qur'an, this only comes from Allah, and He alone is the provider of wisdom and knowledge, and He keeps His scriptures in a "preserved tablet".
Peace,
Ahmad
Wow who is mocking and rejectin God verses and who is calling Quran a copy and not the true message of Allah you are me ???
Mock allah and his message with your 19 you are free to do so till the last day yeah -
Peace Afridi220,
Wow who is mocking and rejectin God verses and who is calling Quran a copy and not the true message of Allah you are me ???
hmm So, you actually think the Qur'an that you read everyday is the exact same document that Muhammad wrote over 1400 years ago, same paper and all? ) If you believe this, I really don't know what to tell you... In reality, though, every version of the Qur'an we have today is a COPY and a TRANSLATION, not the original... You don't really want to debate on this issue, do you? If you do, please show me a 1,400 year old version of the Qur'an.
Throughout the Qur'an, Allah condemns the disbelievers for rejecting His signs. It doesn't say anything about rejecting "verses". One of His signs is the manifestation of the Qur'anic pattern, which demonstrates it's infallibility and symmetry, since everything in it is completely proportionate and balanced. Your rejection of this only shows your willful rejection of His signs.
Peace,
Ahmad
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Dear Ahmad Bilal,
Do you know what you are saying? Are you trying to tell that verses(ayahs) are not signs(Ayahs) brickwall I think I have nothing to tell you anymore because you are so set in your understanding that you don't even give a dam to the words used and your understanding is so foolish that you can even say that ayahs are not signs.
Arabic - English
masterwork , masterpiece , gem , curio , wonder , chef d'oeuvre
warning , lesson , adage , preachment , example
logo , token , reference , catchword , charactery , ensign , graffito , temper
,
wonder , miracle , marvel , prodigy
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paradigm , example , exemplarPlease don't reply to my posts because I have given up already. I accept the fact that you are the winner under all circumstances either it is Arabic Quran or translations. The actually Quran is already in the sacred tablet where no one can reach accept few like you so this is definitely a win win situation.
Regards.
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Peace Afridi220,
hmm So, you actually think the Qur'an that you read everyday is the exact same document that Muhammad wrote over 1400 years ago, same paper and all? If you believe this, I really don't know what to tell you... In reality, though, every version of the Qur'an we have today is a COPY and a TRANSLATION, not the original... You don't really want to debate on this issue, do you? If you do, please show me a 1,400 year old version of the Qur'an.
Throughout the Qur'an, Allah condemns the disbelievers for rejecting His signs. It doesn't say anything about rejecting "verses". One of His signs is the manifestation of the Qur'anic pattern, which demonstrates it's infallibility and symmetry, since everything in it is completely proportionate and balanced. Your rejection of this only shows your willful rejection of His signs.
Peace,
Ahmad
"Having hearts wherewith they understand not, and having eyes wherewith they see not."
-the Holy Quran (7179)
?And their hearts are sealed, so that they apprehend not.?
-the Holy Quran (987)
Faith
?These are they into whose hearts He has impressed faith and strengthened them with a spirit from Him."
-the Holy Quran (5822)
Blasphemy and Disbelief
"And as for those who believe not in the Hereafter there hearts refuse to know, for they are proud."
-the Holy Quran (1622)
?Such are they whose hearts and ears and eyes God hath sealed. And such are the heedless.? -the Holy Quran (1610
Dissension
"The Hypocrites fear lest a surah should be revealed concerning them, proclaiming what is in their hearts." -the Holy Quran (9 64)
To Receive Guidance
"And whosoever believeth in God, He guideth his heart. And God is knower of all things." -the Holy Quran (6411)
?Most surely there is a reminder in this for him who has a heart or he gives ear and is a witness.? -the Holy Quran (50 37)
Negligence
"And obey not him whose heart we have made heedless of Our Remembrance, who followeth his own lust." -the Holy Quran (182
Certainty and Tranquility
"Verily in the remembrance of God do hearts find rest."
-the Holy Quran (132
"He it is who sent down peace of reassurance into the hearts of the believers that they might add faith unto their faith." -the Holy Quran (484)
Anxiety and Conflict
?They alone ask leave of thee who believe not in God and the Last Day, and whose hearts feel doubt, so in their doubt they waver."
-the Holy Quran (945)
Blessing and Kindness
"And places compassion and mercy in the hearts of those who followed him."
-the Holy Quran (5727)
"He it is who supporteth thee with His Help and with the believers. And (as for the believers) hath attuned their hearts." -the Holy Quran (8 62-63)
Hot-temper and Cruelty
"If thou hadst been stern and fierce of heart they would have dispersed from round about thee." -the Holy Quran (3159)
"Which is the true spirit hath brought down, upon the heart, that thou mayest be (one) of the warners."
-the Holy Quran (26193-194)
"Say (O Muhammad, to mankind) who is enemy to Gabriel! For he it is who hath revealed (this scripture) to thy heart by God's leave."
-the Holy Quran (297)
"And He revealed unto His slave (Prophet Muhammad) that which he revealed. The Heart lied not (in seeing the angel) what it saw."
-the Holy Quran (5310-11)
Soundness and Sickness of Heart
"The day when wealth and sons avail not (any man). Save him who bringeth unto God a whole heart " -the Holy Quran (26 88-89)
"Lo! therein verily is a reminder for him who hath a heart?
-the Holy Quran (5037)
"And the Garden is brought nign for those who kept from evil, no longer distant. (And it is said) that is that which ye were promised, (it is) for every pertinent and heedful one, who feareth the Beneficent in secret and cometh with a contrite heart."
-the Holy Quran (50 21-33)
"In their hearts is a disease, and God increaseth their disease."
-the Holy Quran (210)
"But as for those in whose hearts is disease, it only addeth wickedness to their wickedness."
-the Holy Quran (9125)
"And when the hypocrites, and those in whose hearts is a disease were saying God and His Messenger promised us naught but delusion."
-the Holy Quran (3312)
"And thou seest those in whose heart is a disease race towards them, saying We fear lest a change offortune befall us."
-the Holy Quran (5 52)
"The day when wealth and sons avail not (any man). Save him who bringeth unto God a whole heart." -the Holy Quran (26 88-89)
"But he who turneth away from remembrance" of Me, his will be a narrow life, and I shall bring him blind to the assembly on the Day of Resurrection. He will say 'My Lord! wherefore hast thou gathered me (hither) blind, when I was wont to see?' He will say 'so (it must be) our revelations come unto thee but thou didst forget them. In like manner thou art forgotten this Day."
-the Holy Quran (20124-126)
"Have they not traveled in the land, and have they hearts where with to feel and ears wherewith to hear ? For indeed it is not the eyes that grow blind, but it is the hearts, which are within the bosoms, that grow blind."
-the Holy Quran (2246)
"Whoso is blind in here will be blind in the Hereafter, and yet further from the road."
-the Holy Quran (1722)
"And he whom God guideth, he is led aright, while, as for him whom He sendeth astray, for them thou wilt find no protecting friends beside Him, and We shall assemble them on the Day of Resurrection on their faces, blind, dumb, and deaf "
-the Holy Quran (1797)
"Then those who believe in him (Muhammad) honor him, help him, and follow the light which is sent down with him They are the successful."
-the Holy Quran (7157)
"Now hath come unto you light from God and a plain scripture."
-the Holy Quran (515)
"Is he whose bosom God hath expanded for the surrender (unto Him), so that he followeth a light from His Lord (as he who disbelieveth) ? Then woe unto those whose hearts are hardened against remembrance of God. Such are in plain error."
-the Holy Quran (39 22)
"We have revealed unto thee (Muhammad) that thereby thou mayst bring forth mankind from darkness unto light."
-the Holy Quran (141)
"On the day when thou (Muhammad) wilt see the believers, men and women, their light shining forth before them and on their right hands (and will hear it said unto them) Glad news for you this day Gardens underneath which rivers flow, wherein ye are immortal. That is the supreme triumph."
-the Holy Quran (5712)
"On the Day when the hypocritical men and the hypocritical women will say unto those who believe, look on us that we may borrow from your light! It will be said Go back and seek for light!"
-the Holy Quran (5713)
only, when our disaster came on them, they had been humble! But their hearts were hardened and the devil made all that they used to do seem fair unto them!"
-the Holy Quran (643)
"Then woe unto those whose hearts are hardened against remembrance of God. Such are in plain error.?
-the Holy Quran (3922)
"There hath come unto you an exhortation from your Lord. A balm for that which is in the breasts."
-the Holy Quran (10-57)
"And We reveal of the Quran that which is a healing and a mercy for believers."
-the Holy Quran (1782)
"Have they not traveled in the land and have they hearts wherewith to feel and ears wherewith to hear."
"Having hearts wherewith they understand not, and having eyes wherewith they see not."
Some ppls consider God 19 above God so offtopic giveup
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Some ppls consider God 19 above God so fftopic giveup
salam dear friend afridi,
never give up, we are not all obsessed with 19 as many are, but we cannot deny its greatness either as it does come from god, all we try to do is give our opinion and bring proof to support our opinion, this world is an illusion for those who beleive, we as believers live in a spiritual world and in order to understand the spiritual world one must understand god and his last chapter the quran of the mother book, once you open the door to understanding it, you will find yourself in a different world all together.....
never give up finding the truth group -
Peace Khyaletanzim,
Do you know what you are saying? Are you trying to tell that verses(ayahs) are not signs(Ayahs) brickwall I think I have nothing to tell you anymore because you are so set in your understanding that you don't even give a dam to the words used and your understanding is so foolish that you can even say that ayahs are not signs.
Arabic - English
masterwork , masterpiece , gem , curio , wonder , chef d'oeuvre
warning , lesson , adage , preachment , example
logo , token , reference , catchword , charactery , ensign , graffito , temper
,
wonder , miracle , marvel , prodigy
,
paradigm , example , exemplarPlease don't reply to my posts because I have given up already.
I'm glad you have given up o this, brother, because by posting comments like this, you only show your ignorance regarding the Arabic language. Stop listening to your Sunni scholars, and examine the Qur'an. A sign ("ayah" is not the same thing as a verse ("abyah", and foolish are those who take the scripture as a book of poetry. Allah explains His signs throughout the reading, and it would probably benefit you if you paid attention to them. Please identify a passage in the Qur'an that says that VERSES ARE SIGNS, and I will listen to your understanding. But until then, you are only speaking on hearsay.
Peace,
Ahmad
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Dear Bilal,
As you have already noticed that i am an ignorant person so kindly enlighten me from the Quran that sign and verse are different. Please kindly provide the Arabic and clearly mark the difference with your translation so that i can understand.
Regards.
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Peace Khyaletanzim,
As you have already noticed that i am an ignorant person
Why do you keep doing this? I never said you are an "ignorant person", YOU DID. Stop making false accusations, claiming that I'm bad-mouthing you when I'm not. All I said was your conclusion was incorrect, showing your "ignorance" of the language.
so kindly enlighten me from the Quran that sign and verse are different.
Show you where SIGN and VERSE are different? -\ I don't understand this request. The WORDS ("ayaat" and "abyaat" are not even the same. There are plenty examples in the Qur'an showing that an "ayaat" is NOT a verse, it's a sign...
In the creation of heavens and Earth, and the difference between night and day, are "ayaatin" for those with pure hearts. (3190)
How are the creation of the universe and the alternation of night and day "VERSES" for those with pure minds/hearts? This would be illogical.
He said, "My Lord, make for me a AYAT." He said, "Your AYAT is not to speak to the people for three days except by symbol, and commemorate your Lord greatly, and glorify evening and morning." (341)
How could these refer to "verses"? This wouldn't make any sense at all. In the Qur'an, a reference to "ayaat" is always referring to a sign or proof. Please show me where the word "ayaat" is referring to verses instead of signs.
Please kindly provide the Arabic and clearly mark the difference with your translation so that i can understand.
I can't mark the differences on here because I didn't photocopy exerpts from the Qur'an onto my computer... Just look up the meaning of the word "ayaat", and it means "signs", not verses. This is a sectarian mistranslation and misinterpretation. You should probably even be able to find the answers to these questions online, maybe even on this website (i.e. "Free-Minds" or this forum.
Peace,
Ahmad
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Dear Bilal,
I don't know what to say after your answer except please learn to understand English. brickwall
Look at your quote again Posted on December 11, 2008, 032750 PM
Throughout the Qur'an, Allah condemns the disbelievers for rejecting His signs. It doesn't say anything about rejecting "verses".
I don't know what you wanted to say. But in English this quote meant that signs are not verses. Please read again all your stupid answers which you call explanations.
You contradict your sayings in every post. First you said that this Quran is not the copy of original manuscript then when I asked you to show me the alterations you showed me some letter alterations and when i asked you that tell me what difference it made in the meanings you came with a new idea that Quran we read in Arabic is also a translation and the actual Quran is spiritual not physical then when I asked you where did you Got your Quran then you said the same Quran we use and translation of Khalifa was approved by you.
I accept the fact that Quran means recitation and not book named as Quran. In my understanding God is telling us at many points that what we are reading are his signs in this book. We call this Book Quran and I hope that you will contradict again to this too. brickwall
Can you tell me why Mr. Khalifa did not translated word ayat altogether and used letter in bracket instead?
121 A.L.R. these are the symbols (or Verses) of the perspicuous Book
KhalifaA.L.R. These (letters) are proofs of this profound scripture.131 A.L.M.R. these are the signs (or verses) of the Book that which hath been revealed unto thee from thy Lord is the Truth; but most men believe not.
KhalifaA. L. M. R. These (letters) are proofs of this scripture. What is revealed to you from your Lord is the truth, but most people do not believe.
(131282 these are Verses of the Book that makes (things) clear.
KhalifaThese (letters) constitute proofs of this profound book.
(282)271 these are verses of the Qur'an,-a book that makes (things) clear;
KhalifaT. S. These (letters) constitute proofs of the Quran; a profound scripture.
(271)
If you pay attention to the verse 271 it says but nobody has translated and in this sign(verse). Do you know why?Now I have given the translations of Khlaifa too and you will see that he did not even translated as sign or verse but letters. In my ignorant understanding, first he wanted to confuse his followers with letters so that he can prove to them that letters have been tempered with and once that doubt has been created, he came with his idea of 19 and to to prove his formula true just as a sign or miracle for his followers. Why you cannot see the simple fact that if any kind of doubt can be created in the Book(Quran) then it will become equivalent to the Books others are having. This is not a new try from the disbelievers to prove that Quran has been tempered with and you know that hadith books are full with that kind of confusion creating hadiths.
If you accept Quran as a God is mentioning in his then you cannot deny that he is saying which can mean this or these and it means that one is seeing that. I know this too that you will never accept the simple fact provided by me and you will even now may deny that the translations I have posted are not even khalifa's. In any way i have tried my best to show you the truth but you keep on changing your words where ever you Got caught in your sayings. I am 100% sure that you will do the same again brickwall but i am helpless giveup
Regards.
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My belief in god was easy, and even before I came to find the Quran I believed god was guiding me. Sometimes you simply understand when god is speaking to you. This is what happened with the Quran. Every other religion and holy texts or writings out there either left me confused, or doubtful, as to whether or not it was the path god wanted me to follow. There were even some things (like Christianity) where I felt torn, both wanting to believe some things yet reject others within the religion. While I didn't understand before why I had these feelings of being torn, I do now.
When I read the Quran, it simply made sense. Everything that I come across, and come to understand, makes sense in a way that is not describable. Not only are the things I've always felt were right by god within the Quran, but also there were many doubts and idea's I'd previously wondered about that became clear to me. There is a verse (I'm sorry I do not remember the exact one or wording), towards the beginning, which said something to the effect that those who believe know when they hear the word of god. I just simply knew, it was that easy.
As far as the science behind the universe goes, I was actually suprised to find that some of the mysteries were actually revealed in the Quran. This wasn't what made me believe in the Quran as truth though (I was a believer before I found these things out)... so they are more like little wonders and pieces of knowledge I'm learning as I read.
The easiest way to answer the question though is this... God wanted me to see the Quran for myself and know that it was from God. If God had not guided me, there is no way to know where my beliefs would still be. I owe my faith in the Quran to God. That much I am sure of.
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Peace,
I don't know what to say after your answer except please learn to understand English. brickwall
I don't know what you wanted to say. But in English this quote meant that signs are not verses. Please read again all your stupid answers which you call explanations.
rotfl Okay, guy... In your view, "ayaat" means "verses". In REALITY, though, "ayaat" means "signs". You can take it as my inability to speak English if you want; I really don't care. However, you are only demonstrating your ignorance of the ENGLISH AND ARABIC languages. In Arabic, the word "aya" means "SIGN", not "verse". Get rid of your sectarian ideologies, and face reality. You are badly mistaken if you believe an "aya" is a "verse". It doesn't matter how Rashad Khalifa or any other translators translated the word "ayaat"; it doesn't make it correct. Dr. Khalifa made fairly accurate translations of the word "aya" by translating it as "proof" or "miracle" (which is a lot better than "verse", but the actual meaning of it is "SIGN". Before you call factual explanations "stupid answers", maybe you should examine your own "stupid" views on these concepts... -\ And I won't even waste my time talking about the whole "learn to understand English" comment. Trust me, I know English VERY WELL... ) What you need to do is stop relying on these sectarian Islamic Arabic dictionaries, and you need to purchase a real Arabic dictionary, or possibly take an Arabic language class. It could provide lots of help for you, since many of your ideologies on these issues are false and completely misleading. Just a suggestion. Just because a Qur'anic translation says, "These are the VERSES of a clear book..." doesn't mean the word "verses" is actually there; this is simply the translator's interpretation of the word "ayaat", which really means signs. So, the correct statement would be, "These are the SIGNS of a clear book..."
Peace,
Ahmad
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Dear Bilal,
Keep telling me that you know English and Arabic and also keep on telling me whatever you want to but my observation remains the same. Again the same problem just answering the same way. Half reply to my posts and ignoring the main points. Look at your hypocrisy.
Get rid of your sectarian ideologies, and face reality. You are badly mistaken if you believe an "aya" is a "verse". It doesn't matter how Rashad Khalifa or any other translators translated the word "ayaat"; it doesn't make it correct. Dr. Khalifa made fairly accurate translations of the word "aya" by translating it as "proof" or "miracle" (which is a lot better than "verse", but the actual meaning of it is "SIGN". Before you call factual explanations "stupid answers", maybe you should examine your own "stupid" views on these concepts...
what you are saying is that Khalifa did not translated it correctly and still he is a messenger and guided? In other words you are more guided than Khalifa rotfl
I really cant understand your what you stand for? verse is not the correct translation but it is almost the same kind of mistake which khalifa did so to me it is almost the same.
Regards.
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what you are saying is that Khalifa did not translated it correctly and still he is a messenger and guided? In other words you are more guided than Khalifa rotfl
I really cant understand your what you stand for? verse is not the correct translation but it is almost the same kind of mistake which khalifa did so to me it is almost the same.
I'm laughing too, brother... laugh Rashad translated the word "aya" in nearly all instances as "sign", "miracle", or "proof", all of which give the same descriptive meaning. Like I said, translating "aya" as "miracle" is a lot better than translating it as "verse"; the translation of it as "verse" (plural- ayaat, or verses) is completely wrong and misleading. The word "aya" means sign, and "ayaat" means signs. Besides, Rashad Khalifa never claimed that his Qur'anic translation was infallible or divinely inspired. His translation, although I feel it is better than most of the other translations in circulation, does contain errors and misinterpretations.
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it is BS