General Issues / Questions

Peace be with you Putaradivi From personal experience and those of other followers of The Qur'an , I found as you did that , the so called "Muslims" really hate The Qur'an but revere the sayings of Bukhari and others like him. This is to be expected as The Qur'an has warned us about these people ( Qur'an 1015 , if memory serves me right ) . As for what you tell these so called Sunni/Shi'a regarding The Hadiths that you follow , I suggest you tell them that , you follow The Hadiths of The Messenger of God 100% . ( since the Qur'an came out from the mouth of the Messenger ) , then proceed to tell them all the relevant Verses regarding Hadiths . As for going to the Mosque on Fridays , speaking for myself , I only go to meet people there to engage them in discussions and Debate about what Islam is all about according to the Qur'an and my current understading of it . I have not done any of the Traditional Form of Prayers ( eg the Bending over one ) even inside the Mosque for years . this alone will prompt The Sunni/Shi'a people to ask you why you did what you did ( not praying like them ) . So you will then have your opportunity to explain your form of Islam that you follow i.e. Islam based on The Qur'an and Logic . Peace , almarh0m

but Muslims and Jews are bitter rivals, Through history muslims an jews have had a great relationships it's only the stupid fabricated sunni hadiths that are causing problems according to the hadith Muhammad wished a curse on the jews/christians, but regardless jews can pray in mosqe and muslims can pray in jewish temple. Agreed with rest

Much of the claims of conspiracy theorists are in light of biblical history (which should be treated as no less fictitious than arab history), & with an intent to prove that the quraan & the prophet are lies. Much can be said of the attitude & beliefs of crone, cook, wansbrough, warraq, & the rest. There is a difference between scholarly research & hostile speculation. Psychopathic Vandalism? Puin speaks with disdain about the traditional willingness, on the part of Muslim and Western scholars, to accept the conventional understanding of the Koran. "The Koran claims for itself that it is 'mubeen,' or 'clear,'" he says. "But if you look at it, you will notice that every fifth sentence or so simply doesn't make sense. Many Muslims -- and Orientalists -- will tell you otherwise, of course, but the fact is that a fifth of the Koranic text is just incomprehensible. This is what has caused the traditional anxiety regarding translation. If the Koran is not comprehensible -- if it can't even be understood in Arabic -- then it's not translatable. People fear that. And since the Koran claims repeatedly to be clear but obviously is not -- as even speakers of Arabic will tell you -- there is a contradiction. Something else must be going on." Not everyone agrees with that assessment -- especially since Western Koranic scholarship has traditionally taken place in the context of an openly declared hostility between Christianity and Islam. (Indeed, the broad movement in the West over the past two centuries to "explain" the East, often referred to as Orientalism, has in recent years come under fire for exhibiting similar religious and cultural biases.) The Koran has seemed, for Christian and Jewish scholars particularly, to possess an aura of heresy; the nineteenth-century Orientalist William Muir, for example, contended that the Koran was one of "the most stubborn enemies of Civilisation, Liberty, and the Truth which the world has yet known." Early Soviet scholars, too, undertook an ideologically motivated study of Islam's origins, with almost missionary zeal in the 1920s and in 1930 a Soviet publication titled Ateist ran a series of articles explaining the rise of Islam in Marxist-Leninist terms. In Islam and Russia (1956), Ann K.S. Lambton summarized much of this work, and wrote that several Soviet scholars had theorized that "the motive force of the nascent religion was supplied by the mercantile bourgeoisie of Mecca and Medina"; that a certain S.P. Tolstov had held that "Islam was a social-religious movement originating in the slave-owning, not feudal, form of Arab society"; and that N.A. Morozov had argued that "until the Crusades Islam was indistinguishable from Judaism and ... only then did it receive its independent character, while Muhammad and the first Caliphs are mythical figures. "Morozov appears to have been a particularly flamboyant theorist Lambton wrote that he also argued, in his book Christ (1930), that "in the Middle Ages Islam was merely an off-shoot of Arianism evoked by a meteorological event in the Red Sea area near Mecca." A crone or a wansbrough coming up with a conspiracy theory is insignificant; what is significant is the credibility of their sources, which is essentially the credibility of the theory. And the credibility of both the author & the source leaves a lot to be desired. It is not merely a question of (accepting or rejecting the) conspiracy theories. It is also a question of "why?" bigmo-@http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bakkah The Qur'an states that Abraham asked for Bakkah to become a city of peace. Yerushalim (Hebrew for Jerusalem) literally means 'City of Peace'. The word used in quraan is "aman" & not "salaam".....so even that claim (made by whoever wrote that statement) is misleading. Further, there is nothing in the quraan to claim that jerusalem has anything to do with israel. Then, far as consipracy theories go, "quraanists" can very well make a claim to a "jerusalem-israel " conspiracy. The hebrew name for jerusalem is held to be "yerushalayim" (& not "yerushalim&quot, while in arabic it has been known as "al quds". It can be further speculated that as yerushalayim denotes duality, there is more here than meets the eye. Also, shalim was a deity. And far as amari himself goes The Bible as a Valid Resource for Ancient History It is true we have all of these resources to validate ancient history, but the single most reliable resource is the Bible. The books of the Bible were written by various prophets who lived at various times. Moreover, they were inspired by God to ensure accuracy. Most of the inspired writers of the Old Testament lived and wrote before the historians themselves. God bless all. al'hamd li Allaah Rabb al'aalameen

Wakas, can I ask you a question? Why do you quote the verses number but not the verse itself? Because it's relatively easy to look a verse up.

Wow Bubbles! Seems to me you place a lot of trust in Bukari and Co. Let's be clear that the hadiths are attributed to Muhammad. There is no way we know Muhammad uttered the things that are in the hadiths. What if I came to you and said "Prophet Muhammad said if your nick is Bubbles you are going to hell" heard by <insert name> on the authority of <insert name> narrated by Abu Huraira. Will you believe me? By your reasoning, you would because all people who have met me think I am an upright and righteous person. You do not know me but you would are relying on other people's judgement who you have never met either! Hope this makes you reflect.

read the title. http//www.dreamsnightmares.com/snakes.html

This is called attaining maturity at the crucial age 40. This is the most bizzare response I hear from Muslim apologists. Maturity is NOT specific to age 40, LOL! rotfl Just one question if you are really FORTUNATE and FAR HAPPIER without religion how come you are chasing religionist on this site, trying to force your point of view on them, rather wake and shake them, to me is a bigger migrane headache and a permanent mental distress. ) The answer is in your own quote; no wonder you have a BIGGER migrane and permanent mental disorder. brickwall

It is 50, if you are a true follower of Muhammad. 50 is ordained! 5 is bargained. Bro the discussion on this issue has been moved to the following thread http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9597936.msg194613#msg194613 Btw, this discussion is not about who is a "true follower" of the Prophet.

That's what I don't understand... how can one be 'helped' after they are dead? As far as I know, messengers brought good news and were warners. And for those who didn't revert until death caught up with them, their time was up. And We helped the Children of Israel cross the sea, and Pharaoh and his soldiers followed them out of hatred and animosity. But when he was certain to drown, he said ?I believe that there is no god except the One in whom the Children of Israel believe, and I am of those who have surrendered.? Now you say this?, while before you disobeyed and were of the corrupters! Peace 9.84. Nor do thou ever pray for any of them that dies, nor stand at his grave; for they rejected Allah and His Messenger, and died in a state of perverse rebellion. So the prophet did pray for the dead and did stand at the grave to seek their forgiveness. The Koran just said do not do the same for the disbelievers. 9.80 Whether thou ask for their forgiveness, or not, (their sin is unforgivable) if thou ask seventy times for their forgiveness, Allah will not forgive them because they have rejected Allah and His Messenger. and Allah guideth not those who are perversely rebellious. Once again the prophet did use to pray for the dead.

Instead of saying good and bad is from God, it is better to regard the issue that we earn as per Allah's decree in the following manner God has allowed good for good and bad for bad and such is the decree that has gone forth to the heavens and the earth before the Quran is revealed to man to understand this Allah created the heavens and the earth for just ends, and in order that each soul may find the recompense of what it has earned, and none of them be wronged.

Beautiful!! Thank you Bigmo for posting the links. The Egyptian (Mabrouk Attiya) in the third link makes me sick. He uses his fancy words and jumps to show off his memory of the quran to impress the people. The people love him because he feeds them what they want to hear. You can see that in the moderator who thanks the 'shiekh' for telling him what he wanted to hear all along, regardless of whether it contradicts quran. However I believe the moderator did an EXTREMELY good job in the 3rd link. He understood that Adnan Rifai wanted to discuss evidence from quran alone. And he ensured that Marbouk Attiya stuck to quran alone for his evidence. Bravo Adnan Rifai, a very brave thing to do, especially in an Arab country. If people listen to his proofs and arguments against these tales in the hadith and sunnah then they will see his point. Unfortunately, the people listening and the people he debated with were more interested in his background, how many books he had written, his certificates, credentials, and what he does for a living. Who cares if he is a garbage man that has swept roads for 20 years, or a civil engineer or doctor. Are you not going to listen to what he says and judge him on that rather than where he's coming from? The guy in one of the first two links actually asked him if he had a certificate in Deen from one of the schools/colleges of Deen!!! Couldn't he see that Adnan Rifai was challenging the system and the corrupt schools of thought in these colleges? So he expects Adnan Rifai to get a degree from these corrupt schools of thought in order for his argument against them to be heard? If a monkey pointed to the moon, these people will look at the monkey's finger! Bravo to the channel for broadcasting this and bravo to Adnan Rifai once again! Regards Ramzi There is more I think in Google video. Type in search engine in video google or youtube.

buy up debt (which means loans, property, assets, houses etc), which means the bank gets them for effectively nothing, and the process starts again. A perfect example of how the corrupt fiat currency money system works. Peace This is, unfortunately, how our politicians work today. The politicians themselves steal money (e.g. 'Jacqui' Smith ) directly, encourage private companies to steal money from the taxpayer (read Private Eye magazine), whore themselves out to rich tax exiles (Mandelson, George Osbourne, Rothschild) and waste billions of tax payers pounds in unnecessary stupidity (I.D. cards, 'PFI', NHS I.T. system, online conveyancing etc.). The three main political parties are essentially the same in wanting larger, more intrusive government, which governs for the super-rich elite at the expense of normal people. It is essentially an oligarchy, and the example you give is a good one. If the government has guaranteed people's money (upto 50,000) then what is the big deal if these banks go bust, which they deserve? Unfortunately most people are simply stupid, for a variety of reasons, and do not see the situation for what it is. As for what individuals can do right now (this has been mentioned before), purchasing gold is a good option, however there are problems in that such as storage and theft. Furthermore having gold in a paper currency situation is difficult. Probably, the best option is to go to the amazon/outback and live the life of a nomad! They won't be affected by this crisis! Perhaps a discussion of long term plans for individuals would be a good idea. Roshan

Peace BelH You outlined some important stuff here.. However, on the stoning issue, the guy will surely tell us that hadith is WAHY and part of hidden revelation.. Wasalaam Peace If he would say that, then his dark side that he is trying to hide will be exposed. Then He will become an easy meat to fry by Quran. Good Bless

There is no scientific way to understand quran. Science is based on materialistic, for example to measure room temperature it needs thermometer but to measure how much mother loves you.. Dear Jango Unfortunately, you are influenced by story tellers... How can you utter such an ignorant statement about a book that uses the same word, AYA, both for nature and scripture? How can you reject matter, while the Quran mentions hundreds of material things as blessings, from honey to lentil, from sun to the moon, from rain to the trees, from clothes to homes, from your eyes to your ears? Aren't all of them made of material things? Unfortunately, the story tellers and fabricators of hadith have turned Muslim masses against science and mathematics. Later the charlatan spiritualists even led them to deny matter, God's creation, turning one of their eyes blind. As for your mother's love... Science even can measure and quantify that one through brain waves and other innovations that yet to be discovered. Furthermore, through the study of genes and hormones, science is now getting better in providing medicine for many ailments once considered "metaphysical." or "paranormal." For instance, those with bipolar disease were deemed possessed by spirits in the past by people like you... But, now a small pill containing lithium turn those crazy people into normal and functioning people. Thumping your nose at science and matter is not a sign of an appreciative person dear Jango. I hope you will wake up and smell the flowers, watch the bees, and enjoy their honey. You should know that they are made of matter according to science and all act according to the science, which is God's law in nature. Peace, Edip

It's a big bang Jango! Good post.

Peace "Ahmed Bilal", Peace "Jonny_K", Your statement implies that God is limited by space and time, physical constants. If this is the case (which it isn't), then God is universally subject to these factors. So, where exactly is God? How old is He? These questions CAN'T be answered because God is not subject to these external forces, and therefore, He is all places at all times. Simple. JK- GOD is everywhere yes but at any place he is not there in His entirety but in part. The Whole of GOD can never be seen or measured because Hes infinite in size. Your implication is unreasonable. According to physics, energy (by definition) can't be created or destroyed; it can only be converted into other forms of energy, such as material substances and particles... Now, realistically, this is CONTRARY to the central belief of monotheism. How is God the creator of everything in existence if He didn't create matter and energy? Doesn't this make these eternal forces "gods" just like Him?! Everything in existence had a beginning at some distinct point in time, everything except God. Not limiting the concept of speed as being relative to light, there's a huge difference in measuring the speed (time) of light and the "speed" of God. In our universe, light is the fastest known thing in existence. So, does this mean that God can't travel faster than the speed of light?! Again, you're placing limitations on His degree of supremacy. He's not limited to any of these factors, and He can manipulate them as He wills. JK- Creation is ultimately a differenatiation process i.e. one type of energy tranforming into another. The speed of light does not have an absolute limit. It is limited because of the laws of this particular universe. GOD can thus move faster if He changed the laws of the universe but He doesnt need to anyways because parts of Him are already everywhere so theres no point 1 and 2ndly GOD's laws are fixed. This is a completely different concept, and you're making things up now. This is not a paradox, this is a divine reality. Energy exists when there is something, by the finite scientific perspective. So, you're saying that energy is just as old, or older, than God Himself?! This is idolatrous! Based on the scriptures, by the way that He reveals Himself, God is more than just external energy; so, by your conclusion, energy is 'greater than or equal to' the almighty god... I don't know what you think of this, but it doesn't sound very "monotheistic" to me... By definition, God is the ultimate creator of everything, which means He also created matter and energy, time and space. If God didn't create matter and energy, then He is subject to them, which means He has a physical body and manifestation, and He can only be in certain places at certain times. This is completely contradictory to the message in the Qur'aan regarding His might and magnitude... JK- To say energy is "older" than GOD is not idolatrous because 1) random energy is not intelligent and hence not a being of any sort 2) that was an infinite amount of "time" ago anyways so it was never actually traceable. And by no means is tht inifnite time ago random not then "evolved" energy greater than GOD. So GOD is the creator of every other differentiated entity except eternal Light which He is Himself. As for GOD being subject to anything there needs to be something intelligent. Saying that GOD is subject to light wouldnt make much sense since random light is not yet an intelligent entity. So yes GOD created matter and the energy in turn derived from tht matter but not the eternal Light which He is Himself. Where's your proof of this?! The Qur'aan specifically mentions a period of "six days". Now, does this mean six 24-hour days? Possibly. We don't know. HOW LONG IS A DAY? To us, a day is a 24-hour period where the earth travels the complete distance around the sun. God, though, doesn't live on the earth, and He doesn't measure His timeline by the rotation of our planet and our sun. So, to Him, one day could be a nearly immeasurable period of time; it could range from 24-hours to a million (or more) of our solar years. If it was (hypothetically) based on the distance of our planet and our sun, GUESS WHAT! God is in complete control of our planet and our universe, and He therefore controls the measurement of a day, a month, a year, and so on. These are all relative factors that can be manipulated by Him, by His own will. JK- the Quran says GOD's day is like a 1000 years of ours. Hence taking tht the six days refer to GOD's days i made it 6000 of our yrs if "day" is understod in tht way. However "yaum" can mean "periods" and every "yaum" can be different. A certain "yaum" can be 1000s, 1yr, 24hrs, etc etc. tht was my pt. However in the six "yaum" statement "yaum" doesnt mean "periods" at all but rather "stages" as bro Arnold has also explained in one of his articles. Your statement contradicts itself. Time is a measurement, and a measurement is an object. Therefore, time is an object, period. You're applying a finite scientific description to an infinite object or being. This is completely illogical... You're implying that God is a certain definate age. So, how old is He? When is His birthdate? Who were His parents?! These are unreasonable questions, and they can't be answered with a scientific description... If time exists as long as an object is moving, processing, or "creating", then what was there BEFORE God created the heavens and the earth? In other words, before the period known as "in the beginning", was there time? JK- NO i said tht GOD is of Infite age. I just said if we were to hypothetically go back INFINITELY in "time" thered be nothing but random fluctuations and after tht infinite "time" had already passed GOD came to be but technically this can termed as GOD always being there anyways. It's just a logical and consitent explanation. Before the heavens and the erath were created there was quantum "time" which we are unable to observe but it is there logically because of cause and effect and the very movement which GOD made in order to create us for lolgically if He didnt do anything i.e. didnt move on one level or the other thered wldnt be anything. GOD Bless!

Peace bro "Andya", Indeed this maybe true for the vast majority of men. BUT 1) this does not promote the "Muslim" concept of Hijab but the Quranic that women should cover adequately relative to the environment theyr in which is very true 2) I myself dont even objectify women when theyr dressed scantily but i might admire her beauty and get aroused i must admit but im still still young so it shld be understandable. Moreover i convert those thoughts into +ve love making and pleasing that woman or taking her needs into account as well, not objectifying her. GOD Bless!

Salaam BelH I edited your message to correct the last quote. It was not mine but belongs to Jim19 Thank you;

You said we are "Muslims". Could you explain what is a " Muslim"? Peace I asked him before, but he never answered me. My question was If Moslems should be united in their believe, would I be a Moslem if I believe that 9-128 & 129 are Quranic verses? And if I'm a moslem (I can join his organization), who would be the ones who reject them? I hope he will answer this time. Peace

drfazl, Ahmad Bilal, anna, Fadhli- Thanks for some interesting replies; keep adding if u guys develop more insight into this. Joe Betik-does 'thegod' has a temperature or what? Everybody has a temperature. Or not? God bless all. amru Hu kun