General Issues / Questions

Salam all, The Pazuzu theory of south Arabia-Yemen- as historical base of prophetic Civilisations seems to be a solid alternative. I just discover a city "Hajjah" in the western Yemen. My question is could be that city place related to hajj rituals, both of the terms having the same root. Should you please clue us thereon. Salam siwto

1669 And suck from all fruits and flit about the unrestricted paths of their Lord. A drink of various hues comes out of their bellies which contains medicine for men. In this is a sign for those who reflect. Can you please explain Quran 1669 to me regarding Bees eating fruits?

Peace, Has anyone seen this video? http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=0FyiHUK8rDs I fully agree with what he is saying. I think we have to try not to become an institution or a sect. Just by using this term Quranist, you already have sectarians associating a particular set of beliefs just on hearing this word Quranist. I thought the whole point was to follow the Quran and live a way of life, as prescribed by Allah? We should really be free from tags and labels, but surely saying you are a muslim,l or a believer is enough? If they ask what school or what sect, we can simply tell them neither, just someone who follows the Quran alone. When you start adding ists and isms to it, you are in danger of institutionalizing the belief system we have. people need to remember, Islam is not a religion, it is a way if life. We don't want nor need leaders or heads of the group etc. Then you will end up with a set of standardized interpretations spouted by Quranist leaders which people will follow, we will become much like the sectarians adopting a similar model. There is a real danger of this happening. Watch this video and would like to hear your thoughts. Do you think it's ok to give yourself a label a banner to fall under?

A video (youtube link) was posted here sometime ago. It was a debate on arabic tv. The guest on the show had pro Quran view. I'm trying to find out his name. One of the things he said that whenever somebody becomes religious they become intolerant, for example they start calling Christians and Jews, pigs and apes. He said that this not the language of peace. The show was in arabic , with subtitles or someboday here translated it. Thanks.

http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=dx7irFN2gdI

http//www.japantimes.co.jp/life/2013/06/30/travel/how-the-ark-of-the-covenant-got-to-ethiopia/#at_pco=cfd-1.0 According to the Bible, the Koran and several detailed Ethiopian texts, the Queen of Saba/Sheba, named Makeda, visited Solomon in Jerusalem in the 10th century B.C. They had previously exchanged letters full of questions and riddles. When she arrived, bringing gifts of gold, spices, precious stones and beautiful wood, Solomon was bewitched by her beauty. He ordered his courtiers not to disturb them for three days and three nights, after which she went back to Saba (present-day Aksum in Ethiopia). Another version of the story is that he invited her to stay on condition she take nothing of value from him. Offended, she replied that she would stay on condition that he did not touch her. He ordered a meal of salty and spicy food. That night she awoke feeling thirsty and drank some water. At that moment Solomon appeared, declaring that she had broken her word and had taken the most precious thing of all ? water. Thus she was tricked into giving way to his desire. Ancient icons in the Ethnological Museum and historic paintings in other museums show two heads, one with black hair and a beard, the other with black hair and no beard, with a sheet pulled up to their chins Solomon and the Queen of Sheba in bed together. Back in Saba the Queen bore a child, Menelik I, from whom the entire imperial dynasty of Ethiopia is said to be descended, right down to the last in line, Emperor Haile Selassie (1892-1975). When Menelik was 20, in 950 B.C., he went to Jerusalem to meet his father. When he returned to Ethiopia, Solomon ordered the first-born of all the elders there to accompany him. One secretly stole the Ark of the Covenant ? which held the Ten Commandments and on which the safety of the Jewish state depended ? and took it with him. When Menelik discovered this he was angry ? but then he realized that if such a momentous event had occurred, it must be because God had willed it. And thus it was that the Ark of the Covenant is now said to reside in Ethiopia.

http//d.gr-assets.com/books/1347930467l/5449948.jpg Far from being a polemical defence of Islam, this school attempted to show how Islam and Confucianism are two harmonious branches growing from the single tree of prophecy and sagehood. http//new.oberlin.edu/dotAsset/2684651.pdf

Are there any social media sites or groups online for Muslims? I dare to ask for quran only muslims as we seem to be few and far inbetween. Do we have a FB page even though I don't use FB anymore ?!

Peace I am trying to grasp the subtle concept of Existentialism from many days. I have come closer to it. But I am still in a vicious confusion and am frustrated.That's why I need real help. Any one who could lay men type explain me existentialism and give a critique discussing "Quran and Existentialism" is kindheartedly invited. Existentialism is compatible with Christianity and Judaism as there have been many Christian and Jewish Existentialists. It's our clergy's fault that we have been kept far from these things. So For God, if you can help me out, Feel free, Hope God will reward the good willed.... pr With Love Bros and Sis Peace

Peace, I was wondering, according to the Quran, if you break an oath, is the oath renewed?

Salaam Everyone Are there any Free minders living in Kenya or Uganda on this forum? I will be travelling in those countries during Ramadan and would love to share iftar meal.

salah.hemsida24.se How to peform salah from quran alone pleace take a look its a uniq style Allah dident give the quran to Gabriel and told him here Mohammad is the quran now go and folow hadith hadith dident exist until after quran there are MANY ways u can peform salah many styles the only thing Allah wanted uss to do it to folow quran folow the teachers ) Do like Mehdi do when u take a shit think about (Iblis) ;D Do u want some wisdom ??? use my salah and Inshalla Allah is going to give u som of his wisdom

Lions,Tigers and Bears oh my! & rotfl http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=NBcakULBBMU Ufologist and editor of Unicus Magazine, Robert Stanley, argued that Middle-Eastern shadow beings called the 'jinn' may be related to terrorism and acts of violence. The legend of the jinn (genie) in a bottle dates back to King Solomon, who was said to have found a way to bind the entities, and get them to do his bidding. They were allegedly instrumental in the building of King Solomon's Temple, he said. According to Middle Eastern lore, everyone has a jinn assigned to them, and the supernatural beings can be benevolent, neutral or evil. Stanley compared the jinn to fallen angels, and noted that in Islam, "Shaitan" (like Satan) commands an army of demons or jinn who tempt humans to sin. Historically, there are descriptions of jinn-like entities across many different cultures, and it's only in the West that they've been dismissed as fictional, he commented. Stanley characterized their mode of action as like an infection from mental parasites, such as the Archons described in the Book of Enoch, who feed on negative energy. "They're non-physical but they have a physical effect on us through the energies in our body...and they can literally manipulate us into doing things for their benefit," he remarked. Biography Formerly a corporate journalist for HONDA Research & Development in Torrance, California, Robert M. Stanley is currently the editor of UNICUS magazine and the author of CLOSE ENCOUNTERS ON CAPITOL HILL. He has passionately researched UFOs for over 30 years. In that time, he has interviewed dozens of eye-witnesses and leading experts. His ongoing investigation of UFOs has been featured on international television and radio, and in print. Mr. Stanley is a native of Los Angeles. He spent 20 years growing up in Malibu, California, before moving to the South Bay. He has traveled to over 50 countries in search of answers to ancient mysteries. The jinn (Arabic jinn, singular jinn; also spelled djinn), or genies, are spirits mentioned in the Qur'n and Islamic theology who inhabit an unseen world in dimensions beyond the visible universe of humans. Together, the jinn, humans and angels make up the three sapient creations of God. The Qur'an mentions that the jinn are made of a smokeless and "scorching fire", and they have the physical property of weight. Like human beings, the jinn can also be good, evil, or neutrally benevolent and hence have freewill like humans and unlike angels. The jinn are mentioned frequently in the Quran, and the 72nd surah is titled Srat al-Jinn.

The following is my first thread I opened back in 2007. One of the blessings of being Quranist is that you get to see how your views have changed as you continue the journey. My goal here is to look back and see where I think I went wrong. This is from the thread called "hadith versus sunnah". I have two posts I posted one of them is response to Arnold Yassin. I have bolded the parts where I see my arguments were flawed due to assumptions, something that many of us still have. Quote from Arnold Yasin on May 14, 2007, 065229 AM Peace, To say Sunnah did survive untouched is naieve in my point of view. Just as people followed Hadith, and the whole of Islam changed, the same way people changed the Sunnah they orignally followed. Although people do not read Hadith, their scholars and Imams do, and they eventualy decide the customs. This can be seen with all the sects around the world. And yes of course there are similarities with other religions as Islam has always been propagated. But the point is that it is the Quran that is the Criterion for knowing which traditions are true and which ones are man-made. But in this argument, the Quran is looked through the glasses of Sunnah, instead of the Sunnah through the glasses of the Quran. End Quote Islam did not changed. Most Muslims around the world never read hadiths and do not know who Bukhari is. The hadith wars the occur in mosques occurs in North American and European mosques cause they are controlled by the Muslim Brotherhood type groups(Isna etc). The idea of hadith being heard by people is a recent phenomena due to the information technology the past 60 years which helped groups like the muslim Brotherhood and Wahhabi Islam to spread. Their is no way that Muslims for over 50 years were praying a certain way and then the Ummayids and Abbsids made everybody change the way they prayed. Even something as basic as where to face when praying can be changed by the Ummayids and the Abbasids. Hadith do not alter whats been established and for almost 400 years after the prophet even the Ulema class was still primitive. They grew as time went along. Even when we see Al Shafi arguing the case for hadiths against the Mutazilites and the other rivaling schools, nobody was disputing the rituals of Islam. Other religions did not spread by the prophet and his companions so even the basicrituals was established by narration later but in Islam the religion spread straight from the oven. Anyways hadith itself does not show the whole way to pray, there are many parts of the salaat that was not mentioned in hadiths yet everybody prays that way. So where did they get that ? The notion that for 5o years the religion spread in a certain way and then the Umayyids(who did not even care about religion and were secular) could have then followed everybody to alter the rituals and then the Abbasids did the same is impossible to conceive. The reality the first book of hadith(Muwatta) was compiled 160 years after the hijra and that it somehow manage to alter how Muslims pray or fast or do haj is hard to believe. Why was there no revolution and revolt by the people against people trying to change the Qibla or haj from the way they were used to doing it for 50 years. !0 with the prophet and 40 with the 4 Caliphs. Even the 4 Caliphs were surrounded by thousands of companions. Now I can understand that the prophet prayed 5 times a day and others and the Muslim jurist later on made 5 as an obligation when its really 3 or 2 or 4 or 8 thats obligatory, that may have taken place. Another words the Sunnah is 5 but not all 5 are obligatory that may be possible. But to say that something as obvious as Qibla or haj which everybody would easily memorize and pass on to their children and family can be altered is far fetched. Also Recently there has been a wide and emerging discussion about the old question of hadiths and its role in Islam. There has also been the emergence of various ideological trends that is now beginning to re-examine the traditional thought and thinking in Islam that is dominated by the Sunni and Shia Islam. That is the traditional hadith oriented Islam that has dominated Islam for now 1,000 years at least in theory. However for those who chose to eleminate hadiths and those who vehemently defend them, there is an issue that both sides are not taking into account. That is the difference between hadith and the Sunnah. The Sunnah as understood in Arabic and the Quran is the accepted set of a'mal(deeds). It is an act, behaviour or physical outcome that is accepted, repeating and repetitive. The Quran tells us reaping what we sow is the Sunnah of this life. Also the opposition thepeophets faced is the sunnah of this life. Therefore sunnah hear means the established physical and behavioral patterns of this life like trial and tribulation, evil and righteousness and war and famine and so on. It was the practice of God amongst those of old that have passed away. And the Command of God is a decree determined. (333 Now are they but looking for the way the ancients were dealt with? But no change will thou find in God's way No turning off wilt thou Find in God's way . (3543) Here the term Sunnah is translated as approved practice or God's way. These are a'mal(actions, behaviors and physical characters) that is established as a norm and a law of life. What we refer to in general term as "this is life". The prophetic Sunnah is the established, accepted, normative and repeated behaviour and deeds of the prophet. It is not based on a specific speech or act, but what is the established behavioral characteristics of the prophet. While hadith may vary due to circumstance, the sunnah does not. Treating the neighbours kindly is a sunnah(established repetitive norm and deed) of the prophet. The prayers at night, the fasting of ramadan and the friday prayers and funeral prayers, are all the prophet's sunnah. We must not confuse the two. Muslims prayed 5 times a day, prayed the friday prayers, celebrated eid, made haj to mecca and payed the zakat long before hadiths were compiled and made public. The first hadith officially compiled was the Muwatta of Imam Malik about 160 years after the hijra in the begining of the Abbasid era. Bukhari and Muslim was even later by almost 100 years. By then the Quran reached China probably and Muslims have prayed and made haj and celebrated Eid for 160 years without knowing any of these hadiths. In fact the traditional sholars and fiqh only began to emerge in large numbers during the Abbasid era. We did not perform these because of a hadith from Abu Huraira or Ibn Al Abbas or Aesha. Muslims make the azan and wudu and make salam to each other the way the Sunnah was. This Sunnah was watched, performed and then passed down by thousands of the companions and not the handfull we see in Bukhari's or Muslim's collections. It is not based on memerizing a speech but observing and set of behavior and rituals and practicing them and passing that practice to others. These are not single narrated testimonies or eye witness but was expressed by mass transmission. This is how the Quran came to us. While these established Sunnah were passed down to us by the companions, hadiths were not designed like the Quran. Hadiths were based on specific speeches and narrations witnessed by a few and on a specific occasion. Hadiths were not compiled and codified by the 4 Caliphs like the Quran. It was actually discouraged for various reasons. It was not even witnessed by the majority of companions and nearly all are single narrations.The defenders of hadith rightfully ask the Quranites, how do you know how to pray and when, the answer we should say that we do not get that from hadiths since no hadiths explain the whole salaat but we got it from the companions who followed the prophet's Sunnah. The current definition of Sunnah prevailing in thje Sunni world, was constructed by Imam Al shafi who believed Sunnah must be grounded with a specific hadith. But sunnah is never specific, its always general and its not based on a speech, but an act or behaviour which is consistent and repetitive. The prophet always prayed and payed the zakat and performed haj and so did the companions, they learned that by example and passed it along. It was their dudy to do so, hadiths meanwhile were actually forbidden and were never written down and were passed down mostly from a handful of the companions many were either very young or knew the prophet for a short time. In fact the 4 caliphs represent less that 3% of the hadiths in the Sunni collections. For more on this http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=14273.msg126703#msg126703 End quote Lets look at this "Why was there no revolution and revolt by the people against people trying to change the Qibla or haj from the way they were used to doing it for 50 years". This was the assumption everything was based upon. But this is a flawed assumption. Because this assumes that there was a specific ritual established. But if there was not than why revolt? If lets say the Ummayids introduced the 5 daily prayers due to Judaic or Persian influence than to assume that there would have been some revolt due to this innovation assumes that this 5 daily prayers is against Islam. But it is not. The assumption I made was that I did not differentiate between something stipulated in the Quran versus something that contradicts the Quran. This explains why the Mutaziltes did not object to the 5 daily prayers. It is not necessarily has to do whether this is a prophetic or practice or not but whether this practice contradicts the Quran or not. This explains why the Mutaziltes emerged during the beginnings of the Abbasid Empire because this was when the notion of an Islamic State emerged. It was this, and not the rituals of Islam that the Mutaziltes objected to. Given the despotic nature of Abbasid rule the only way that such a state can be an Islamic state was to introduce new concepts to Islam. The rituals that was established by the Ummayids now became the state religion to be imposed and therefore maing binding what the Quran did not. Also many laws now have to be manufactured that can only come from hadiths. This explains why the need for hadiths emerged with the Abbasids. It was Shariah law as understood today that was the reason why the Mutaziltes emerged as now the issue became not only making binding what the Quran did not but also introducing many concepts in Islam that violated the Quranic commands. A Quranist can accept what is not stipulated in the Quran but does not contradict the Quran as long as its not made binding. This explains why there wa sno revolt or an emergence of any challenges until there was an attempt to make things binding. This also explains why most of us are here. Its Shariah law that brought many of us here because that is how we learned many aspects of Sunni Islam previously hidden from us. The fall of Sufi islam and the rise of the Salfia Islam is bringing about the rise of the Quranist as the rise of the notion of an islamic state by the Abbasids brought about the rise of the Mutaziltes. In Shfi''s source theory the possibility of abrogation between the Sunna and the Qur'n was vehemently denied Arguing determinedly that any verbal discrepancies between the Qur'n and the reported sayings or reports of the practices of Muhammed- the Sunna of the Prophet- were merely illusory and could always be removed on the basis of a satisfactory understanding of the mechanism of revelation and the function of the prophet-figure, Shfi' set his face decidedly against any acceptance of the idea then current that in all such cases the Qur'n had abrogated the Sunna, or the Sunna the Qur'n. This stance was a reaction to larger developments within Islamic jurisprudence, particularly the reformulation of the Fiqh away from early foreign or regional influences and toward more eminently Islamic bases such as the Qur'n. This assertion of Qur'nic primacy was accompanied by calls for an abandonment of the Sunna. Shfi''s insistence upon the impossibility of contradiction between Sunna and Qur'n can thus be seen as one component in this larger effort of rescuing the Sunna He campaigned tirelessly to justify use of the Sunna as the second primary source alongside the Kur'n against those who would accord the hadth no role in the derivation of the shar'a on the argument that the degree of conflict in the hadth, the inadequacies of the guarantee against corruption, fraud or error afforded by the isnds rendered the hadth unfit for the sacred role of declaring the divine intent underlying the Kur'n's declarations. Asked point-blank whether the Sunna could ever be abrogated by the Qur'n, Shfi' had bluntly replied that that could never happen. Were the Sunna to be abrogated by the Qur'n, the Prophet would immediately introduce a second sunna to indicate that his first sunna had been abrogated by his second sunna- in order to demonstrate that a thing can be abrogated only by its like (mithlihi) . Later scholars, writing when the juridicial legitimacy of the Sunna could be taken for granted (thanks largely to Shfi''s efforts!), were less inclined to adopt his inflexible stance. To their minds the reality of this sort of inter-source abrogation was proven by several "indisputable" instances the changing of the qibla towards Mecca and away from Jerusalem, and the introduction of the penalty of stoning for adultery. http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naskh_(tafsir) The Mutazili grammarian and author of the Qur'anic commentary Jami al-Ta'wil li-Muhkam al-Tanzil, Abu Muslim al-Asfahani (254-322), was reputed to have denied intra-Qur'anic naskh altogether. Al-Razi and al-Shawkani refuted him in al-Mahsul and Irshad al-Fusul respectively, but others (such as Ibn Daqiq al-Id and the contemporary scholar Ali Hasabullah) justified his stance as a difference in terminology only (khilaf lafzi) - due, for example, to interpreting the word aya as "(super)natural sign" or "previous Scriptures" rather than "Qur'anic verse," or a reconsideration of purported abrogation to be mere specification (ikhtisas). Hence al-Qarafi's rebuttal, when al-Razi questioned the claim of consensus on the existence of abrogation "Agreement has indeed formed over meaning; difference is only over naming." http//wikiislam.net/wiki/Abrogation_(Naskh) The Mutaziltes rejected abrogation of any kind and wanted to do away with the Sunnah and return to the Quran. But this only took place with the rise of the Abbasids who wanted to establish the so called Islamic state. When the Umayyads were overthrown by the 'Abbasids in I32/750, Islamic law, though still in its formative stage, had acquired its essential features; the need of Arab Muslim society for a new legal system had been filled. The early 'Abbasids continued and reinforced the islamizing trend which had become more and more noticeable under the later Umayyads. For reasons of dynastic policy, and in order to differentiate themselves from their predecessors, the 'Abbasids posed as the protagonists of Islam, attracted specialists in religious law to their court, consultet them on problems within their competence, and set out to translate their doctrines into practice. But this effort was shortlived. The early specialists who had formulated their doctrine not on the basis of, but in a certain opposition to, Umayyad popular and administrative practice, had been ahead of realities, and now the early 'Abbasids and their religious advisers were unable to carry the whole of society with them. This double-sided effect of the 'Abbasid revolution shows itself clearly in the development of the office of qadi. The qadi was not any more the legal secretary of the governor; he was normally appointed by the caliph, and until relieved of his office, he must apply nothing but the sacred law, without interference from the government. But theoretically independent though they were, the qadis had to rely on the political authorities for the execution of their judgments, and being bound by the formal rules of the Islamic law of evidence, their inability to deal with criminal cases became apparent. (Under the Umayyads, they or the governors themselves had exercised whatever criminal justice came within their competence.) Therefore the administration of the greater part of criminal justice was taken over by the police, and it remained outside the sphere of practical application of Islamic law. The centralizing tendency of the early 'Abbasids also led, perhaps under the influence of a feature of Sasanian administration, to the creation of the office of chief qadi. It was originally an honoriflc title given to the qadi of the capital, but the chief qadi soon became one of the most important counsellors of the caliph, and the appointment and dismissal of the other qadis, under the authority of the caliph, became the main function of his office. The caliph, too, was given a place in the religious law of Islam. He was endowed with the attributes of a religious scholar and lawyer, bound to the sacred law in the same way as qadis were bound to it, and given the same right to the exercise of personal opinion as was admitted by the schools of law. The caliph retained full judicial power, the qadis were merely his delegates, but he did not have the right to legislate; he could only make administrative regulations within the limits laid down by the sacred law, and the qadis were obliged to follow his instructions within those limits. This doctrine disregarded the fact that what was actually legislation on the part of the caliphs of Medina, and particularly of the Umayyads, had to a great extent entered the fabric of Islamic law. The later caliphs and other secular rulers often enacted new rules; but although this was in fact legislation, the rulers used to call it administration, and they maintained the fiction that their regulations served only to apply, to supplement, and to enforce the sacred law. This ambiguity pervaded the whole of Islamic administration during the Middle Ages and beyond. In practice, the rulers were generally content with making regulations on matters which had escaped the control of the qads~, such as police, taxation and criminal justice. The most important examples of this kind of secular law are the siyasa of the Mamluk sultans of Egypt which applied to the military ruling class, and, later, the qanun-nama of the Ottoman sultans. Only in the present generation has a secular, modernist legislation, directly aimed at modifying Islamic law in its traditional form, come into being; this became possible only through the reception of Western political ideas. But the postulate that law, as well as other human relationships, must be ruled by religion, has become an essential part of the outlook of the Muslim Arabs, including the modernists among them. Joseph Schacht- Origin of Islamic Law So there you have it. peace

Here is evidence from Quran which will prove that the Quran was available in the book form during the lifetime of the prophet. The Quran has used the word <Kitab 'book' for itself at so many places. Scattered written sheets of paper are never called a book. A book is a treatise written on a number of sheets which are fastened together. After 'Sura Fateha' the opening chapter, the Quranic text begins with the following verse- "Here is the book, in it there is no ambiguity, uncertainty or psychological complex. It is a guidance to those who save themselves from the consequences of going against the Divine laws." (21) At hundreds of other places the Quran has called itself a book in different contexts. The Quran is a book which is a collection of various "Sura" chapters. Thus in support of the truth contained therein, the Quran challenges the vain-glorious opponents of the prophet who doubted the revelation of the Quran and said that he (Muhammad) composed the verses himself, in the following words 'Or do they say, "He forged it"? Say "Bring then a Sura like onto it." (103 "Or they may say, "He forged it". Say, "Bring you then ten Suras forged like unto it." (1113) Again it is repeated ""Say "If the whole of mankind both civilised and uncivilised were to gather together to produce the like of this Quran, they could not produce the like thereof, even if they backed up each other with help and support." (178 Thus the whole world is challenged to produce a book like this and it has not been able to produce one. Its beauty, standard and purity is a proof by itself that it is a book revealed by Allah and compiled by one to whom it was revealed. The Quran is a book which was not only written but also rehearsed side by side with its gradual descent. Thus it is said "Recite from the book what has been revealed to you." (2945) "And recite (and teach) what has been revealed to thee of the book of thy Rabb None can change His words." (1827) But in spite of all this, when the non-believers persisted in their opposition to the Quran, they were questioned in the following words "Is it not enough for them that We have sent down to thee the book which is rehearsed to them?" (2951) Again it is said "Or have you a book through which you learn?" (6837) "Shall I seek for judge other than God? When it is He Who has sent unto you the book explained in detail." (6114) "This is the book whose verses are explained in detail (so that there remains no ambiguity); a Quran whose language is clear and explicit for men of knowledge." (413) Thus the Quran is preserved in the form of a book and only those people can be benefited by it who have a clean and unbiased mind, free from prejudice and fixed notions. "Furthermore I call to witness the location of the heavenly bodies and that indeed is a mighty witness if you but know that this is indeed the Quran, which benefits humanity by raising its stature without lowering its dignity, in a book well guarded which none shall touch (or be benefited) but those who are clean (in body, mind, thought and attention); a revelation from the Sustainer of the universe." (5675-80) The Quran describes further the distinctive marks of the scribes who used to write the Quran in the presence of Muhammad. Thus it is said ?Nay but it (the Quran) is indeed a message of instruction. Therefore let whoso will, keep it in remembrance that it is in papers held in great honour, exalted (in dignity), kept pure and holy, (written) by the hands of scribes, honourable, pious and just." (8011-16) It is abundantly clear from the above verses that the Quran was dictated, as soon as it is was revealed to the prophet, to the scribes who were honourable, pious and just. Thus the question of any addition, alteration or invention does not arise. This also indicates that the verses of the book had a regular order and sequence, so they could be rehearsed by the prophet and his followers. The practice of learning the Quran by heart was prevalent during the days of prophet and still continues from the last 14 centuries. This is a clear proof that the verses of the Quran were already arranged in a given order and sequence during the time of the prophet himself in a book form. The prophet used to dictate the revealed verses to his companions immediately after they were revealed and this become a regular practice. Then comes the great proclamation "We have, without doubt, sent down the message and We will assuredly guard it (from corruption)." (159) Again it is said "..Indeed it is a book of exalted power (whose prescribed way of life is bound to dominate). No falsehood can approach it, from before or behind it (i.e., openly or secretly). It is sent down by One full of wisdom and worthy of praise." (4141-42) Thus the Quranic text has been guarded eternally from corruptions, inventions and accretions, even if the whole world is bent upon destroying it. To allege that the Quran, after it was revealed, was left uncared for, in a haphazard manner, scattered on pieces of stones, bones and leaves etc is a blasphemy. In the words of the Quran itself- (1) It is not a forged book. (2) It is a confirmation of the revelation which went before it and is a criterion of differentiation between right and wrong. (3) It places things related to human problems in an orderly manner, in correct perspective and in exact proportion. (4) It is a book which discloses hidden realities of life. (5) It is a constructive book. (6) It is a book whose code of life promotes preservation, stability, growth and manifestation of human personality as well as society. (7) It is a book which explains itself. 8 It is not poetry (false, futile, and imaginary description). (9) It is a book whose laws are based on permanent values. Can a revealed book of this standard which, according to the Quran itself, was dictated gradually and in bits, simultaneous with its revelation, to the most honourable and pious scribes who were men of great integrity and then copied, learnt by heart and rehearsed daily by a large number of believers, and whose safety Allah took upon Himself, be said to have been left uncared for?

Peace to all Broz and Sis Please read the Wiki Article and post your Comments........ http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fate_of_the_unlearned Unevangelized or Unlearned in my terminology means something like "UnQuranized".......................one who never found an evidence to believe in God or Quran as he has never heard of it or if heard heard it from either the Zionists or the Dangerous Mullahs......... Peace and Greetings Harun

I haven't read it, might be good Download here http//avaxhome.ws/ebooks/religion/east/0060730641_0060099240Heart_of_I.html Or here http//sdrv.ms/WgQWW2 Very good ratings for this book here http//www.amazon.com/The-Heart-Islam-Enduring-Humanity/dp/0060730641/

Have the Muslims become of those who provoke the wrath of god and of those astray? What is a Muslim suppose to do Adore, glorify, exalt, worship, serve, ask for help, etc. only to God, the Creator of life, He that forms in the wombs, The Eternal. How to extol Him Everything/ every being has his/her/its own way of worshiping the omnipotent. Asad 2441 ART THOU NOT aware that it is God whose limitless glory all that are in the heavens and on earth extol, even the birds as they spread out their wings?62 Each knows indeed how to pray unto Him and to glorify Him; and God has full knowledge of all that they do. Monotheist 2441 Do you not see that everything in the heavens and the earth glorifies God? Even the birds in formation, each knows its contact prayer and its glorification. And God is fully aware of everything they do. How to serve Him One that is in peace/ one that has submitted/a mslm serves God being pious. Piety is feeding the hungry, giving warm to the one suffering from cold, helping the slave to be free, helping the oppressed against the oppressors. Treating, loving, acting towards your neighbor, brother, fellow human being as you love, treat, act towards your self. A submitted one obeys God?s laws not allying or becoming friend with the enemies of God. He doesn?t wish to be like God?s enemies, nor does he help them to kill his own brothers. A submitted one shall honor the name of his teacher who is the Supreme one, God, by his/her/its actions. Saying that one is a servant/ believer/ student/ follower of the All Knowing and doing contrary to His teachings is using His name in vain, and that is a great sin. Asad 2177 True piety does not consist in turning your faces towards the east or the west143 - but truly pious is he who believes in God, and the Last Day; and the angels, and revelation,144 and the prophets; and spends his substance - however much he himself may cherish it - upon his near of kin, and the orphans, and the needy, and the wayfarer,145 and the beggars, and for the freeing of human beings from bondage;146 and is constant in prayer, and renders the purifying dues; and they who keep their promises whenever they promise, and are patient in misfortune and hardship and in time of peril it is they that have proved themselves true, and it is they, they who are conscious of God. Monotheist 2177 Piety is not to turn your faces towards the east and the west, but pious is one who believes in God and the Last Day, and the angels, and the Book, and the prophets, and who gives money out of love to the relatives, and the orphans, and the needy, and the wayfarer, and those who ask, and to free the slaves; and who upholds the contact prayer, and who contributes towards purification; and those who keep their pledges when they make a pledge, and those who are patient in the face of hardship and adversity and when in despair. These are the ones who have been truthful, and these are the righteous. Ask for help Asking for help shall be done directly to the Omnipotent, he is the Hearer, He answers to those who ask. A submitted one shall never ask for help to anything from the heavens or the earth, only to the Eternal. There are no intercessors between Him and His creatures, and that is very clear in the Qura?n, the Torah, the Bible, the saying of Jesus, and in the writings of other prophets inspired by the All Knowing, except for the blind ones. How to ask and what to ask Asad 2200-202 (2200)And when you have performed your acts of worship, bear God in mind as youwould bear your own fathers in mind - nay, with a yet keener remembrance!185 For there are people who pray, "O our Sustainer! Give us in this world" - and such shall not partake in the blessings of the life to come. (2201) But there are among them such as pray, "O our Sustainer! Grant us good in this world and good in the life to come, and keep us safe from suffering through the fire" (2202) it is these that shall have their portion in return for what they have earned. And God is swift in reckoning. Monotheist 2200-202 2200 When you have completed your rites, then remember God as you remember your fathers or even greater. From among the people is he who says ?Our Lord, give us from this world!? But in the Hereafter he has no part. 2201 And some of them say ?Our Lord, give us good in this world, and good in the Hereafter, and spare us from the retribution of the Fire.? 2202 These will have a benefit for what they have earned; and God is swift in reckoning. What are Muslims Doing They are glorifying mere human being/ saints/ martins/ leaders/ Kings. When they name them they add a phrase or two to emphasize their praise to these human beings, but when they name the Omnipotent, the Omniscient, the Eternal, they name it as if they were talking about their brother. They are not serving God. They kill each other, hate each other, are expelling from their houses to each other, destroying the houses of worship of the other, killing their children (abortion), raping women with all kinds of excuses, acquirind slaves instead of freeing them, sex slaves, etc. All these they do while screaming that God is greater (allah akbr) and praying five times a day. They know that all this is against the law, and that those are some of the worst sins that can be committed. Furthermore, the majority of muslims have become allies of the enemies of God, and help them to kill muslim brother for the sake of power and money. Also, they desire to be like the enemies of God, adopting their laws, their dress, their traditions, even coloring their hair and making surgery to their noses and bodies. They are asking for help, praying for intercession, to saints, martyrs, prophets. They say that they have even being granted new prophets who have brought to them the ?Qura?n?, or clarification of it. They refuse to accept that with Mohamed was delivered the last revelation before the Day of Judgment, and that only God clarifies it. They visit their tombs and serve them as the ignorant serve their idols. They forget that what lays there is not the soul but the rotten remains of the flesh, and that even if the soul were there she will be powerless in front of the ETERNAL GOD; but yet, they cry over the tombs as the astray ones do. What is the punishment for this hypocrite mslms who use the name of The ETERNAL in vain and break their covenant with GOD On the other life The Fire, torment. And on this life Lest learn from the earlier peoples Deuterinomy 19-25 19 ?And when the LORD saw it, He spurned them, Because of the provocation of His sons and His daughters. 20 And He said ?I will hide My face from them, I will see what their end will be, For they are a perverse generation, Children in whom is no faith. 21 They have provoked Me to jealousy by what is not God; They have moved Me to anger by their foolish idols. But I will provoke them to jealousy by those who are not a nation; I will move them to anger by a foolish nation. 22 For a fire is kindled in My anger, And shall burn to the lowest hell; It shall consume the earth with her increase, And set on fire the foundations of the mountains. 23 ?I will heap disasters on them; I will spend My arrows on them. 24 They shall be wasted with hunger, Devoured by pestilence and bitter destruction; I will also send against them the teeth of beasts, With the poison of serpents of the dust. 25 The sword shall destroy outside; There shall be terror within For the young man and virgin, The nursing child with the man of gray hairs. Could this be why the muslim world is being punished, and so troubled?

Bismillah Alrahmanir raheem, who are sufis? I have done some search on internet but I would like to know some personal observation from members over here....

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