General Issues / Questions

peace, I want to see the views of those on this board on this topic, I found FearfulofAllah's views interesting- In describing the two categories of people, I have taken the liberty of defining ?belief in god? as ?the conscious act of doing good, out of unselfish motives, even if it is at a personal cost?. One may be publicly an atheist and reject completely the notion of any supernatural power but if that person consciously does good acts as a matter of principle in life, then for the sake of this discussion, that person will be considered as having ?belief in god?. By this definition, the opposite is also true that a person, who normally does only bad things, lacks ?belief in god?, even if that person claims to believe in god. In my opinion, this way of defining ?belief in god? is valid because no one, to this date, has come up with a completely accurate description of what god really is, and given that proponents of god invariably describe god in positive terms, that ?belief in god? should be equated with ?belief in good?. In any case, this view of god makes a lot more sense than the stereotypical image of an old man sitting on his throne in the sky controlling the weather. Our current understanding, of what god is, is just an artificial construction that we have made up in our minds so that we can picture the unseen. Different people have different constructs in their minds about what god is. Some of these constructs are in contradiction to other constructs. A lot of people accept their own construct as being accurate but reject other people?s constructs. Similarly, some people reject everyone?s constructs and refuse to believe in anything that has no sound basis or logical justification. They make up their own version of what reality is and follow that philosophy. What they have chosen to do is reject everyone else?s definition of ?god?, and make up their own definition of ?god?, and follow that instead. They may or may not choose to use the word ?god? to describe what they have constructed in their minds. So when someone denies the existence of god, they are in effect denying what, in their view, other people have conjured up and are calling god. This is all valid behavior and in accordance with the Quranic instruction to not uphold anything for which one has no supporting information. And do not uphold what you have no knowledge of. For the hearing, eyesight, and mind, all these you are responsible for. There are two types of gods that people can chose to believe in, true gods and false gods. True gods are those that reflect all that is good around us love, life, good, happiness, knowledge, kindness, etc. False gods are those that reflect all that is bad around us hatred, enmity, greed, jealousy, arrogance, ignorance, etc. For the sake of this essay, I will define anyone who believes in the false gods to lack ?belief in god?. I have also used the term ?natural law? to loosely mean the way things work in the universe and the forces that keep order within the chaos. This can be the force of gravitation, the scientific and mathematical principles, light, human ideologies that promote peace and welfare, biological, geological, ecological and cosmological functions that sustain life, and many other things. There are two main categories into which all people can be classified. There might exist other subcategories within these two categories, but to my knowledge nobody can be excluded from the two main categories.

Dear spooks First of all, forgive me if this letter comes to you as a culture shock. I know the idea of an 'open letter' might seem rather alien to your general way of doing things. But just in case you've completely lost touch with reality, Britain is a democracy. People out here in the real world engage in public activities and exchange views and ideas freely, despite all those clever gadgets and phone taps you use to keep tabs on us. However, I am slightly worried things soon might not be so public, now you have decided to set up spy-centres outside of London, focusing on the comings and goings of British Muslims. You see, my local mosque (and I'm not telling you which one it is coz it's a secret) has an Islamist cell. This 'cell' consists of a few dozen silly young men on the dole who go around knocking on people's doors advising them to pray more frequently and be better Muslims generally. Like many Muslims, I find them mildly irritating, sometimes rather offensive in their views, but otherwise harmless. The problem is my young brothers are only too aware of some of the gaffs your services have made lately. At the risk of pre-empting the Butler Report, there is the small matter of Iraq. You did insist Saddam's empire was laden with weapons of mass destruction, but so far no show. Of course, every government agency ? and perhaps I am unfairly blaming one department for the crimes of another - is entitled to the odd mistake or two. However, I doubt my long-bearded brothers will be so forgiving. Just as they probably cannot tell one spook from another, you don?t seem able to distinguish between ordinary fundamentalists and the murdering thugs who want to blow up Tony Blair. I suspect my Islamist friends will simply assume a local spook-centre means more dawn sledge hammers knocking on Muslim front doors - theirs in particular. Worse still, they are only too aware how bitchy and provincial some Muslim communities can be. When the road you live in is effectively a transposed rural village, all sorts of fallings-out and fratching is inevitable. Snitching to the spooks will become just another bullet in the local gossips' arsenal. My excessively pious friends might as well mark their front doors with red paint and save you the trouble. The real danger, though, is that many fundamentalist British Muslim youth will hear news of your plans and go to ground. This is going to make them prime targets for the real crackpots, and before you know it, the very strategy you developed to prevent terrorism will have promoted it. So excuse me if I don't volunteer to join your ranks, or recommend Muslims to do the same. I don't believe creating a climate of fear and suspicion will ever stop the recruitment of terrorists. Giving young unemployed Muslims a decent job is a much better idea. Sincerely Yakoub Islam

Salaams, T o me the aplication of abrahams system gives the greatest returns to menkind. How is this achieved -by serving Allah ,serving his attributes. On one hand there are countries where the people may say they are shirkists but practically serve allah by serving his attributes. And there are countries where people may say they serve Allah alone but are shirkists ,they don't serve Allah by serving his attributes,but instead serve idols,or serving the opposite of the attributes so matter in fact -the devil. from whome there is no return so are the most least effeicient people in the world. Just looking around the world to see which countries recieve the greatest returns from allah for their work output. Most efficient..................................................................Least efficient. least corruption most corruption most of the west Most of the and the far east muslim world some central usa,uk,france,germany african, sweden,denmark, Japan ,malaysia you can name them. Love some of your thoughts. Thank you. Salaams.

Peace all Hafiz Kazi has wrot a number of articles that are doted around this forum I was wounderring if they could be put togeater and put down in the Whats new section of Freminds.they have all been informative and it would be a shame if they were missed by othere members. peace saleem

Peace How has the progressivemuslims.org translation sold? Does anyone know the numbers? What about downloads from the site? Roshan

What up guys? By nature I'm not a superstitious person, when people tell me about going to fortune tellers and such I let them know that I think its a load of bs. However, lately for approximately a year now, I've been seeing the same numbers repeatedly in different places. The numbers that seem to keep reappearing are 1111. I usually see these numbers when I look at the time, but not exclusively. Sometimes I'll see them on a license plate, or a book page number, etc... Anyway I just wanted to know if anyone has shared a similar experience, although I refuse to place any importance on these numbers and continue to believe it must just be a coincidence. Peacceeeeee!

This scripture is infallible; a beacon for the righteous, those who believe with the unseen/hidden and keep up/call for the salat and from what We provided for them they spend. This scripture is infallible; a beacon for the righteous, those who believe with the unseen/hidden and keep up/call for the salat and from what We provided for them they spend. Explain that to me. Zachariah I see a generation rising up No longer accepting lies Running to the battlefield And losing their lives I see a generation rising up No longer accepting lies As a band of worshippers Running to the battlefield And finding their lives

Salam All, Would like to share an extremely freaky episode with all of you, as I don't know what to make of it myself... We went for quite a long trip and after returning home, were busy sorting out various things etc...during this, my husband's wallet was lying on the floor in the living room, where my son was playing and i thought i should pick it up before it's destroyed...then, i just picked my son up and got busy with him...soon after, my husband started asking me where the wallet was, as he too had seen it lying on the floor and thought he should pick it up but neither one of us did...anyhow, we started searching for it and it very quickly became apparent that it was more serious than we thought... We spent 3 hours tearing the place down as my husband, like a lot of men, carry almost all the important stuff in one place, the wallet...searched the living room, and then all the other rooms as well...but couldn't find it...I thought maybe it was a figment of our collective imaginations that we thought both of us saw it, even though it couldn't be, we both saw it in the living room floor..so i went to search in the car...and guess what, didn't find it there either... So exhausted, we searched again and finally decided to give up at around midnight...praying that God would help us find the damn thing... In the morning my husband gets ready for work and lo and behold, as soon as he opens the car door, it's lying there patiently... Now what i don't understand is...both of us saw it inside the house...both of us saw it on the same place on the floor...both of us were searching for it, in all places imaginable...there was no one else who could have taken it...how did it get back in the car?? If this isn't strange don't know what is...if anyone has any comments/similar experiences, please pm me or post here...would be much appreciated!! Peace Nadia

An open letter to the Islamic Human Rights Commission Dear IHRC As-salaamu alaykum I am writing to congratulate you on the Islamophobia Awards, presented on 26th June 2004. I was particularly delighted to learn that this year?s ?Most Islamophobic Media Personality? was none-other than Guardian columnist Polly Toynbee. I believe the selection of Polly Toynbee for this award is likely to be warmly welcomed by the entire English-speaking Muslim ummah. Polly is a popular hate figure amongst the Muslim intelligentsia and clearly such a dark atheist is doomed to eternal torment come what may. It is only right we should remind this treacherous woman of her future fate. Many people mistake Polly Toynbee for someone resembling a decent human being. As a result of your hilarious award, her pose as a champion of human rights and social justice for the low paid and has been rightly exposed. No doubt those nasty Muslim liberal heretics and feminists who sympathized with her views will now think twice before making mischief and daring to speak out. It has been suggested in some quarters that the decision to target a highly esteemed figure within the British media, construed as having legitimate views about the British Muslim community, was an act of reckless stupidity based on vindictiveness and insular petty-minded politics. I can only assume these are malicious rumours put about by Polly?s secular friends. Indeed, I believe the decision to name Polly as the Most Islamophobic Media personality was nothing less than a cunning ploy conceived by the clever people at IHRC and their sharp-minded allies. Henceforth, anyone attempting to bring the British Muslim community into disrepute by drawing attention to issues such as the position of women, faith schools, inter-ethnic racism, feudal politics, religious intolerance, sectarianism and the seep of fundamentalist thinking into mainstream Islam will now live in fear of being declared a bigot. My sincere hope is that once these evil voices of hate are silenced, our network of friends will spiral beyond the micro-politics of Guardian liberalism to engulf the entire British media. Having crushed all voices of dissent by proxy, Muslims will then celebrate a free reign on positive PR. Better still, any thoughts of ?reform? or ?cultural evolution? can be quietly consigned to the rubbish bin called ?lip-service? where they rightly belong. In the meantime, might I suggest a nominee of comparable status for next year?s Islamophobia in the Media award. What about David Frost? Wasalaam Yakoub Islam Tasneem Project

Peace all, I think that the majority here believes in the life after the death, I adressed my question to Joe, kyle, Shamsul Arefin ...etc How do you confirm that the life after the death is something true? Do you have the possibility to confirm it? Thanks in advance Marie

The Muslim Personal Law Board of India has abandoned the THREE TALAQ SYSTEM (proclaimed at one time) and drafted a new Law for TALAQ, which is according to the Quran. This happened a week back and incidentally I was there in India, and what surprised me was the total silence of the Indian Muslims on this subject. While debating on this issue I found that 90% of the Muslims have never read the Quran with meaning and 75% of those who have read it with meaning do not know the commandments of TALAQ which are revealed by Allah in His ultimate Quran. There are very few Muslims who can talk on the subjects of the Quran with authority. These things exhibit the ignorance of the Indian Muslims towards the Quran and their total dependency on Mullahs for their guidance. The Raza Academy (Barelvi Madhab), instead of appreciating and supporting the bold step taken by the Muslim Personal Law Board, has threatened to stir agitation nation wide if the new Quranic law is passed. If the new Quranic law is passed, then this will be the first step of the ignorant Indian Muslims towards following the commandments of the Quran. Thanks

Hello there, Recently in the US, a person won about 300 million US Dollars in a lottery. Although I never play it, I am just wondering if playing the lottery a sin because the traditional Muslims that I know say it is an unearned income and is thus a sin. Thanks,

Peace, I address this question to those who think that the quranic stories about the preceding generations are only allegorical stories Let us imagine that you live at the time of Moses and God asks him to say to his people that the human will reach in the future the surface of the moon, how do you consider this news? as a lie, a fable, impossible to realize it an allegory or a truth Personally I believe that quranic stories have a double meaning literal and moral and I think the choice for the question above will be very difficult wink Peace Marie

Dear Reader, Let me aks you a question If Homer, Stan Lee, Shakespeare, or Sophocles considered themselves messengers of God, would you believe them. All have written fictional stories that contain consistency and many important moral lessons. I once asked this question to a moderator of the forum. That moderator who doesnt believe in miracles, who considered all stories in the Koran as fictional/fables, and who doesnt believe in tangible proof outside the Koran answered yes. That moderator said he/she would verify the person messengership by verifying the (1) Moral Value and (2) Consistency within their stories. Because the Koran contain statments and mentions past events that They believe cannot techinaclly be verify as actuality, these individual have concluded that such stories must be fictional only for moral value (symbolisim). They jusitify their position by quoting verse (226). Allthough they use it out of context and not in the contecxt God mention it (the allegories of Heaven and Hell are stated right before this verse). And althougth God specifically label a statment as an allegory right before using it (illustrating an easy system for us to work with, making the Koran easy to understand). Many in this forum believe that God wants us to verify Koran as a word from HIM. Therefore, they believe that we must verify each story and word of the Koran. They sincerely believe those who don't verfify every single letter, story, word, text of the koran are Blind or having Blind Faith. However, these individual are label as such because They believe God confirms the truth They believe the entire Koran (as a book) was deliever from God. They believe in the tangible proof given by God that this book is indeed from God. So i ask you, are fictional stories justification for messengership. yes, these fictional stories have consistency. yes, these fictional stories have moral value and lessons. But does that MAKE the individual who actual wrote these fictional stories a Divine Mesenger of GOD?]

As-salaamu alaykum A few months ago or thereabouts, my relentless search for a progressive Muslim voice in Britain delivered me to a pair of articles in The Observer and The Guardian, written by the staff on Q-News. To make courteous a piece of vulgar slang, both pieces heated my wee wee to precisely one hundred degrees centigrade. Two things annoyed me more than anything. The first was the sense that both these articles were a public relations exercise on behalf of Islam. As a Muslim, I strive not to do PR - I try to tell the truth, where my foibles permit. I sincerely hope I would never stoop so low as to massage left-wing sensibilities by quoting from that great bastion of the totalitarian left, Chairman Mao. It would be no better than leafing through the writings of al-Wahhab, in the hope of finding a quote to use in an article about progressive Muslims for Hizb ut-Tahrir Weekly. Worse was your bold conflation of Islam with the social problems facing the Muslim community in Britain. Many of the problems facing British Muslims have nothing to do with Islam. Poor housing, unemployment and social exclusion - do you really think these problems can be cured or explained by simple appeals to a renewed faith or tolerance? A helping hand that clenches the Qur'an cannot be grasped by those who need help and have no faith. First, they must know unconditional love. You are not only the only people to make this error of judgement. A recent report written by the Association of Muslim Social Scientists lent far to much weight to Islamophobia as an explanation of Muslim underachievement in education - or should I say, the underachievement of Pakistani and Bangladeshi Muslims. This slight of hand was quickly spotted by journalists, who will no doubt be on the look-out now for further cloak and dagger dawah. Of course, a similar accusation might be levelled at me. My website mixes Islam and development issues. But I do so for a good reason - I believe serving Ar-Rahmn requires Muslims to acknowledge that all knowledge systems are man made - whether it be Qur'anic exegesis or atomic physics. Truth is not afraid of open discussion - that's what being progressive Muslim is all about. It is tragic so many Muslims believe that open debate and discussion have never been part of Islam. However, I regret I committed a sin in confronting these issues. Rather than writing to Q-News telling them of my sudden need for ice blocks on the bladder, I impaled myself with a gross act of hypocrisy and, I confess, slagged you off to my friends and - worse - to the atheist journalist Polly Toynbee. I like Polly, but really, taking my grievances to her first and not you was simply wrong. I am writing this, to be frank, because I am going to get caught. Q-news have just published a copy of letter I wrote to them in April, asking for British progressive Muslims to get it together. Guardian journalists will no doubt read it and say, 'Bloody hypocrite!' Then they will ring Managing Editor Fareena Alam who will arrange to have me beaten up - well, in my paranoid fantasies, anyway. So, sorry Fareena and everyone at Q-News. I rubbished you to an atheist and then wrote you a letter as if you were my brothers/sisters, which you were kind enough to publish. As the Qur'an points out, that makes me a hypocrite. I'm genuinely sorry. Please don't cancel my subscription! Allah knows best. Wasalaam Yakoub Islam (This letter has been sent to Q-News and other assorted Muslim groups and organizations)

As-salaamu alaykum Dear Abdul Wahid Hamid I would like to draw your attention to a statement you make in your book "Islam The Natural Way", which I understand is a widely available and popular explanation of the basic beliefs and practices of Islam aimed at converts and Muslims seeking to educate themselves about their own faith. I am keen to understand the source of your assertion, made on page 86 and 87 of the MELS 1989 edition of your book, which states There is one thing in particular in which a wife should strive not to disobey her husband, and that is when he invites her to come to bed. Over the last 30 years, women in the developed world have argued that women's interests are best served when the notion of sexual consent is clear and unequivocal. This is often summarised by the slogan, 'No mean no!' The implication is that the right of women to refuse sex should be absolutely unconditional, without fear of social pressure, intimidation, bullying or any other form of coercion. I understand the weight of Islamic tradition is on the wife's duty to be sexually available to her husband in the absence of a legitimate excuse. However, I believe the time has come to challenge this tradition. In my view, the idea that sexual consent can ever be compromised is completely at odds with a faith that teaches compassion, kindness and justice as its fundamental values. When you first published this book, in 1989, sexual consent was an issue under debate. Today, the debate is over. No no longer means 'No if he says so'. No means no! And as a leading member of the Muslim community, you have a responsibility to God and Muslim women to make sure this message is delivered to Muslims seeking to better understand their faith in a clear and unambiguous way. I therefore urge you to withdraw this edition of 'Islam The Natural Way' from sale immediately, and reissue the same book only when the aforementioned phrase is deleted. In its place, may I suggest that you substitute the following statement A husband may never pressure, coerce or bully his wife into having sex. Sexual relations should only take place on the basis of mutual consent. For as Ar-Rahmn says of a believing husband and his wife, "they are as garments to you, as you to them" (2187) I look forward to hearing from you on this matter. Wasalaam Yakoub Islam (This letter has been widely circulated to assorted Muslim groups)

Dear Layth, Maybe it would be an idea to make it clear who the real enemies of God?s system are? Be aware that there would not be any division, or separation, without the sanctification from the various fundamental religions. Every one of the messengers, as far as history goes, had their real enemy amongst the existing religions of their time. Fundamental religions are built on slavery of the mind and/or body, magic, superstition and ignorance. Without the backing of these groups there would not be any vulturous bankers, globalists, war mongers or polluting corporations exploiting God?s creations, including their fellow human beings. ?The big fight? will be against the ?twisters? of people?s minds, for their own, short-term, selfish gains. Everyone who is creating an unbalance in God?s system, should be our target. The organizations you mentioned are all doing something positive to that end, but is there anyone attacking, more directly, the ?root of the problem?? Best regards Ali Omar

Peace brother Layth, You had a good idea to change the position occupied by the category "quranic study" in the forum. Now, it is visible for everyone D You are the best! Marie

Salaamun to All For those who don't know, the threads WHY IBLIS CANNOT BE AN ANGEL WHY IBLIS CANNOT BE OTHER THAN A HOMO SAPIEN SAPIEN are now under the Qur'an Study/Translation Section.

in the last few months i have drawn a few pictures that is illustrations...i am not particularly talented , actually my ability to draw is prety weak but i like to draw.. and i believe I have a few decent ideas what to draw...i am sending this in order to incite those more gifted ...of course i am continuing to improve my skils and i believe with the time i`ll be satisfied with them... i have a few of drawings but i have published only two... the first is from the main page of my web site in bosnian...the meaning of the text above the drawing is Koranic Workshop -A look at the Koran without the traditional glasses http//www.inet.ba/~hardy/kuranska_radionica.htm the second is an ilustration of the hadith as a troian horse.. with the short story explaing the story and how its related to the hadith and Koran....above the picture is the famous saying related to the story of troia...-that is, Timeo danaos et dona ferrentes- be aware, or watch or be cautious with/of the greeks or danais(danaos) even if they are carrying gifts.... below is the koranic saying .... truly satan is an enemy to you, so you treat him as an enemy http//www.inet.ba/~hardy/hadisi.htm i have few drawings more but i am lacking the web space at my site ... one of which i am particularly proud is a man who grow his beard so long that the beard has enslaved him sticking all around him and has disabled the moving of his hands and legs like a snake....( i am sorry i cant remember the proper words but you`ll understand i think)....of course, you probably guess the message already..... an extremely long beard as a paradigm of hadith and sunnah has captured its follower so he is not able to even walk not to speak of walking the straight path... there is alos one in which some people are standing on the Koran (disgracing it) while they are bowing to statues ,human graves, and book like monuments ...the drawings represent the muslims who fell into idolworshiping of the learned man and human books instead of the god... p.s. does anyone know where to buy more web space(its time to find a better adress)-possibly a place where its not necessary to sign below say 1 MB of the terms and conditions( do they really want the people who sign up to read the terms and conditions and to keep them or its just a formality and security before the law?) since i like to keep my promises i avoid to sign up what i have not time nor strenght to read not to speak of upholding...maybe i am a littel rigid .. but thats how I am now...i am currently working on me...and am not sure how much i am suceeding in bettering myself... best wishes Zlatan