General Issues / Questions

"I fully agree with General Washington, that we must protect this young nation from an insidious influence and impenetration. The menace, gentlemen, is the Jews. In whatever country Jews have settled in any great number, they have lowered its moral tone; depreciated its commercial integrity; have segregated themselves and have not been assimilated; have sneered at and tried to undermine the Christian religion upon which that nation is founded, by objecting to its restrictions; have built up a state within the state; and when opposed have tried to strangle that country to death financially, as in the case of Spain and Portugal. For over 1,700 years, the Jews have been bewailing their sad fate in that they have been exiled from their homeland, as they call Palestine. But gentlemen, did the world give it to them in fee simple, they would at once find some reason for not returning. Why? Because they are vampires, and vampires do not live on vampires. They cannot live only among themselves. They must subsist on Christians and other people not of their race. If you do not exclude them from these United States, in their Constitution, in less than 200 years they will have swarmed here in such great numbers that they will dominate and devour the land and change our form of government, for which we Americans have shed our blood, given our lives our substance and jeopardized our liberty. If you do not exclude them, in less than 200 years our descendants will be working in the fields to furnish them substance, while they will be in the counting houses rubbing their hands. I warn you, gentlemen, if you do not exclude Jews for all time, your children will curse you in your graves. Jews, gentlemen, are Asiatics, let them be born where they will nor how many generations they are away from Asia, they will never be otherwise. Their ideas do not conform to an American's, and will not even thou they live among us ten generations. A leopard cannot change its spots. Jews are Asiatics, are a menace to this country if permitted entrance, and should be excluded by this Constitutional Convention." Benjamin Franklin Thomas Jefferson (18th century American statesman) "Dispersed as the Jews are, they still form one nation, foreign to the land they live in." Thomas Jefferson (D. Boorstin, THE AMERICANS) "Those who labor in the earth are the Chosen People of God, if ever he had a chosen people." Thomas Jefferson (NOTES ON VIRGINIA)

Saudi Arabia fully respects Human Rights says Envoy http//www.spa.gov.sa/html/archive_e.asp?srcfile=592693&NDay=11/11/2003&wcat g=0 New York, Nov 11, SPA (Saudi Press Agency)-- The Kingdom of Saudi Arabia affirmed today that it abides by human rights including the rights that are endorsed by the Islamic Sharia. This came in a speech delivered here on Tuesday by The Kingdom's ambassador to the United Nations, Fawzi Abdul-Majeed Shobokshi at the third committee (social, humanitarian and cultural) of the 58th session of the General Assembly. Shobokshi said human rights were as ancient as mankind, and since Allah granted these rights, they were permanent, and not subject to abridgement or cancellation. "The leadership of Saudi Arabia had the unique privilege and honor to be the custodian of the two Holy Mosques and the guardian of the Islamic Holy Sites. The present Saudi Arabia, as its past, was founded on Islam and its teachings, which advocated justice, freedom, and the dignity of mankind," he noted. "Human rights in the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia were those recognized in Islam. They might not extend what the Almighty had prohibited, or transgress what the Almighty Allah had ordered. Shobokshi said Saudi Arabia had ratified four of the six international conventions relating to human rights, and was currently considering the ratification of other conventions on human rights. The Kingdom had also provided financial assistance to United Nations funds dealing with human rights, he added. "In addition, education efforts made a point of bringing human rights to the attention of the body of students at all levels of education. Today's world was going through great challenges that stood against the authentic concepts of human rights. It was a world where double standards were not restricted to political issues alone -- they extended to ideas and philosophical positions. Some media repeatedly pretended that Islam and Muslims had become the source of terrorism and violence. The phenomenon of globalization had also affected the manner, in which States dealt with human rights," Shobokshi said. He stressed that the sovereignty of individual States had been negatively impacted by the concept of open borders. "The practices of Israel with regard to the occupied Palestinian Territories were a perfect example of double standards in human rights," Shobokshi noted. --SPA

Why reject all Hadeeth out of hand? Isn't that just as foolish as accepting any and all hadeeth without question? I understand that hadeeth are for the most part hearsay, but although they may not have value as spiritual writings is it possible they could have historical value? After all, being hearsay doesn't automatically discredit them. It isn't impossible that what was said and what was heard was accurately and faithfully transmitted and recorded. And please - I am not trolling. This is of dead serious concern to me so I would appreciate rational and thoughtful responses. I can go to a christian board if I want to get flamed, ridiculed, held in derision, etc.

Salam all, This is an article that I found interesting in 19.org and wanted to share with you. Symmetry and Equality in the Quran BY Senobar Tafazoli The meaning of "symmetry" in Webster's dictionary is "balanced proportion, beauty of form arising from balanced proportions, the property of remaining invariant under certain changes." The meaning of equality is "like in quality, nature, or status." There is equality and symmetry all through the Quran. There is symmetry between the flies and the humans, among messengers and messengers, messengers and their followers, male and female. When God speaks of Heaven, usually the next verse is balanced with discussion of Hell and vice versa. The same is true of day and night, the sun and the moon and so on. God puts the believers and the messengers on the same level "The messenger has believed in what was sent down to him from his Lord, and so did the believers. They believe in God, His Angels, His scripture, and His messengers They make no distinction among any of His messengers" . Note also that He has put the messengers on the same level as us. Abraham is on the same level as the other believers "Peace be upon Abraham . . . we thus reward the righteous. . . . He is one of our believing servants" . Moses and Aaron are also put on the same level as the other righteous believers "Peace be upon Moses and Aaron. . . . We thus reward the righteous. . . . Both of them were among our righteous servants" . God places Muhammad on the same level as the other prophets. He does not want us to make any distinction among them "We have inspired you, as we inspired Noah and the prophets after him. And we inspired Abraham, Ismail, Isaac, Jacob, the Patriarchs, Jesus, Job, Jonah, Aaron, and Solomon. And we gave David the Psalms" . In the following verse Muhammad and his followers are placed on the same level ". . . God will not disappoint the prophet and those who believed with him. Their light will radiate in front of them and to their right. They will say, 'our Lord, perfect our light for us and forgive us, you are omnipotent' " . Muhammad is put on the same level as other Messengers "Muhammad was no more than a messenger like the messengers before him. . . " . God puts Muhammad and his followers on the same level. God tells Muhammad to say "Say, "This is my path I invite to God, on the basis of a clear proof, and so do those who follow me . . .' " . We too must not elevate the messengers above righteous believers. Both Moses and Aaron are given manifest authority, and they are put onthe same level as their followers, ". . . We will strengthen you with your brother, and we will provide you both with manifest authority. Thus, they will not be able to touch either of you. With our miracles, the two of you, together with those who follow you, will be the victors" . Moses is in charge yet both of them are prophets and both have been given manifest authority. Also, it is Aaron who can speak well. Jesus is put on the same level as the righteous "He will speak to the people from the crib, as well as an adult; he will be one of the righteous" . There is symmetry even in criminal justice "O you who believe, equivalence is the law decreed for you when dealing with murder the free for the free, the slave for the slave, the female for the female. If one is pardoned by the victim's kin, an appreciative response is in order, and an equitable compensation shall be paid. This is an alleviation from your Lord and mercy. Anyone who transgresses beyond this incurs a painful retribution. Equivalence is a life saving law for you, O you who possess intelligence, that you may be righteous" . If someone cuts one's ear one cannot turn round and kill him. There must be forgiveness or an equivalent esponse. All through the Quran we are told to be equitable in every thing we do, even in retribution "During the Sacred Months aggression may be met by an equivalent response. If they attack you, you may retaliate by inflicting an equitable retribution. You shall observe God and know that God is with the righteous" . In the following verse God has perfected His blessings on the family of Jacob, not Joseph alone. That is the same way he had blessed Abraham and Isaac. They were all given the equivalent blessings. "Your Lord has blessed you (Joseph), and has given you good news through your dream. He has perfected His blessings upon you and upon the family of Jacob, as He did for your ancestors Abraham and Isaac before that. Your Lord is Omniscient, Most Wise" . God puts Mary and Jesus on the same level. He treats Mary and Jesus the same, calling them both a portent for the whole world. "As for the one who maintained her virginity, we blew into her from our Spirit and thus we made her and her son a portent for the whole world" . The following verses put husband and wife on the same level ". . . You commit no error by mutually agreeing to any adjustments to the dowry. God is Omniscient, Most Wise" . Note that the dowry adjustment is made after mutual agreement. Regarding divorcing a wife God says not to take back anything you have given her and says "How could you take it back after you have been intimate with each other . . ." . Note it does not say you have been intimate with her -- the women is put on the same level as the man. The following verse demonstrate equality between male and female "Their Lord responded to them ' I never fail to reward any worker among you for any work you do, be you male or female -- you are equal to one another. . ." . There is also a parallel between the bad men and bad women and the good men and the good women "The bad woman for the bad men and the bad men for the bad women, the good women for the good men, and the good men for the good women." . The following verse shows the parallel between men and women "The submitting men, the submitting women, the believing men, the believing women, the obedient men, the obedient women, the truthful men, the truthful women, the steadfast men, the steadfast women, the reverent men, the reverent women, the charitable men, the charitable women, the fasting men, the fasting women, the chaste men, the chaste women, and the men who commemorate God frequently, and the commemorating women; God has prepared for them forgiveness and a great recompense" . God spreads human beings through joining male and female; they are equally responsible "O people observe your Lord; the One who created you from one being, and created from it its mate, then spread from the two many men and women. . ." . The following verse is about Joseph and the governor's wife. Joseph is not any better than the governor's wife except that God sent him a proof. Otherwise, "She almost succumbed to him, and he almost succumbed to her, if it were not that he saw a proof from his Lord. We thus diverted evil and sin away from him, for he was one of our devoted servants" . Speaking of property transactions, God tells us mutually acceptable transactions are permitted "O you who believe, do not consume each other's properties illicitly -- only mutually acceptable transactions are permitted. . ." . On the subject of idol worship ,God brings the idol to the level of a fly, telling us that both are helpless. "O people, here is a parable that you must ponder carefully the idols you set up beside God can never create a fly, even if they banded together to do so . Furthermore, if the fly steals anything from them, they cannot recover it; weak is the pursuer and the pursued" . God tells us that the believers and those who are well founded in knowledge believe in the Quran and what was revealed before the Quran, putting both groups on the same level "As for those among them who are well founded in knowledge and the believers, they believe in what wasrevealed to you, and in what was revealed before you. . ." . The Queen of Sheba places herself on the same level as Solomon ". . . My lord, I have wronged my soul. I now submit with Solomon to God Lord of the universe" . Note that she does not say she will follow Solomon. God in His infinite grace makes symmetrical statements by bringing Himself to our level. The following five verses demonstrate this ". . . God supports those who support Him. God is Powerful Almighty" . ". . . If you support God He will support you, and strengthen your footholds" . "O you who believe, if you revert from your religion, then God will substitute in your place people whom He loves and who love Him. . ." . "As for the early vanguards who immigrated (Muhajerin ) and the supporters who gave them refuge (Ansar) and those who followed them in righteousness. God is pleased with them, and they are pleased with Him" . "Their reward (SENOBAR FROM?)at their Lord is the garden of Eden with flowing streams, wherein they abide forever. God is pleased with them, and they are pleased with Him. . ." . "As for you O content soul . . . Return to your lord, pleased and pleasing" . God in His infinite grace has made Submission a symmetrical state. "You shall remember Me, that I may remember you, and be thankful to Me; do not be unappreciative" .

AN ULTRA ELECTRIFYING INTELLECTUAL DEBATE!!! http//www.faithfreedom.org/debates/Shahzad.htm

Peace DoctorNo (654) Do you accept 'Ethnic cleansing'? Where are you from originally? Thailand? Hmm...let's say a new indoctrination has come about by those tired of you and your people. 'Kill them all, wipe them and their memory from the face of the earth. Their culture and their lives are a waste, they deserve nothing less than a tormenting death. twisted ' Now you've a warrant out for your arrest. DoctorNo, because you are who you are, and believe in what you do, you are sanctioned by the authority of the people who feel you are wrong, to be put to a most punishable death. (1) You are to have your lips 'sewed', or 'stitched' together to ban you from speaking your mind. You are unworthy. You are filth, the scum of the earth. (2) You are to have your feet chopped off for there will be no escape from us, your masters, you slave. We choose that your ways are wrong and are not only pointing you to a better way, but giving it to you. lol (3) You are to be castrated, nobody wants your kind about anymore. You are not to breed again you scum. (4) You are to witness the rape and then the death of your women and children. Thereafter you will be executed along with all your peers before your masters. Now this hypothetical situation is full of metaphors pertaining to what you are doing and what those at Faith Freedom are doing. Take it however in it's literal sense and relate it to a hypothetical reality. wink What is 'Ethnic Cleansing'? The wiping out of anything associated with, or related to your concept of 'Al-Islam'. Why have the lips sewed shut? This is that all arguments, whether they are worthy, or not falls on death ears. Why the cutting of the feet? Those associated with 'Al-Islam' are to be held helpless in the wake of the ways you deem are better, that is, change from that which they were used to following. Why castration? Cutting off the means of those who are defending 'Al-Islam' in a display of loudness, overbearance, numerous circular arguments, and making a mockery of the beliefs of the people. Why the witnessing and the death thereafter? The plan to kill off the system of 'Al-Islam' by all means, even in attacking those who are associated with 'Al-Islam' and are yet following a caricature of the system. This is barbarism, take it to heart in the literal sense, make a connection with it in the metaphorical sense. Take care. Joe twisted

Is the word Kaaba mentioned at all in the Quran? http//members.lycos.co.uk/islampics/kaaba10.jpg Omari

SalaamAlaikum to all on the site. Ok am not gonna go into the story of how I ended up here just yet, I'll save that for another day, when I'm feeling more eloquent. I just have a few questions about peolples practices, here goes- When it comes to Sunni ritual prayers, what are peoples problems with them, for me it is the mention of others, other than God, is that a common feeling here? If so what did you decide to do instead?? As I was not bought up muslim, I have not been adverse (until my conversion to Islam) to the occasional alcoholic bevvie. I did wonder what the prophet Jesus thought he was up to, offering everyone a glass of house red, when we aren't supposed to touch it (until we die). What are others thoughts on this, I mean do any/many of you enjoy the occasional white wine spritzer, guilt free or not? Third and final for now) Halal meat, what do you all reckon??

peace all, I've been reading this site lately, some of the content is very interesting http//www.santarosa.edu/~dpeterso/permanenthtml/lessonFRAME.html I'll quote a short part of one of the lessons... Resistance to Change a. Insecurity and Fear Even if the belief you have is false, the thought of changing that belief is often frightening. This is usually because of the implications and consequences. What about all the effort you put into defending the old position? What about all those years of living as though that position were true? How will my life be different if I accept this new position? Will my family or my friends reject me? Many continue to believe something which is false because it is comfortable and familiar. This is irrational and unhealthy, but common. b. Fear and Tradition Tradition is connected to loyalties. Loyalties are connected to relationships. For instance, if a person is raised in a religious home, many relationships are tied to that belief. It is traditional for family members to continue on. If information comes one's way which challenges that faith, there are psychological reasons that the person will not want to consider the challenges. Always remember, truth cannot fall to criticism. Only those things which are not true can be revealed as false. One can challenge the truth all day long, and if it is true, then it will stand. If you are a member of a group which tries to shield itself from criticism, this should be a warning to you. Wakas

Salam all, What about the issue of makkia and madania in the chapters of the Quran? Do you think that the Quran was revealed in one night or during 23 years as is said by the sunnis? Any thoughts?? Thanks

peace all, With respect to the word salla in 7531, 8715 and 9610, is its root waw-sawd-lam, or sawd-lam-ya? From 7531-32, its clear 'salla' means something along the lines of "turn/go towards, connect". And the root waw-sawd-lam which means attain, reach, connect, apply, make close fits perfectly. However, in the Arabic I see it as sawd-lam-ya. But this root means to warm/burn/roast primarily, which doesn't seem to fit. Anybody clarify? In Lane, it states the root sawd-lam-ya is used in 277 and 2829. Which makes sense to warm. But I dont understand why the Arabic for 7531, 8715 and 9610 says sawd-lam-ya, with no waw before the sawd-lam. Secondly, is the word "musalleena" those who encompass the meaning of the root waw-sawd-lam? This is my understanding thus far, and was just wanting it clarified. Wakas

What we revealed to you in this scripture is the truth, CONSUMMATING all previous scriptures. GOD is fully Cognizant of His servants, Seer. the word "Consummating" to me means to join together and make as ONE. So the way I read this sura is the quran is the last scripture and when it is joined (Consummated) with the previous scriptures, god's word is than complete.. god would not say "Consummating" if the previous scripture are corrupt. Why would God Consummate the quran with something that is corrupt?. That makes no sense to me. I haven't been able to find a verse in the quran that says the previous scriptures are corrupt, but in fact god just says in the quran that jews and christians didn't follow the previous scriptures. Am I wrong in thinking this?

could any free-mind thinkers tell me what the true meaning of the word 'believer' is in reference marrying a believer... I am confused about this issue mainly to do with the fact that muslim men can marry non-muslims (i.e believing christians or believing jews) but muslim women can't marry a non muslim (i.e believing christian or believing jew)... This inequallity appears to contradict verses in the quran like (2221) "And do not marry the polytheist women until they believe. A believing slave woman is better that a polytheist woman, even though the latter may please you. And do not marry your womenfolk to disbelieving men until they believe. A believing slave is better that a polytheist even though the latter may please you . . ." according to this verse (2221) muslim men and muslim women should have this verse applied to them equally I mean no offense in asking this question it is just something that confuses me

What do these letters mean ?

Peace to you all Sura 2267 "For each 'ummah' (nation), we have decreed 'Mansakan' (set of rituals/rites) that they must uphold. Therefore, they should not dispute with you. You shall continue to invite everyone to your Lord. Most assuredly, you are on the right path. If they argue with you, then say, "God is fully aware of everything you do." God will judge among you on the Day of Resurrection regarding all your disputes We made a covenant with the Children of Israel "You shall not worship except GOD. You shall honor your parents and regard the relatives, the orphans, and the poor. You shall treat the people amicably. You shall observe the Contact Prayers (Salat) and give the obligatory charity (Zakat)." But you turned away, except a few of you, and you became averse. They are not all the same; among the followers of the scripture, there are those who are righteous. They recite GOD's revelations through the night, and they fall prostrate. They believe in GOD and the Last Day, they advocate righteousness and forbid evil, and they hasten to do righteous works. These are the righteous. Any good they do will not go unrewarded. GOD is fully aware of the righteous. Surely, some followers of the previous scriptures do believe in GOD, and in what was revealed to you,and in what was revealed to them. They reverence GOD, and they never trade away GOD's revelations for a cheap price. These will receive their recompense from their Lord. GOD is the most efficient in reckoning. Was not Noah a monotheist and not an idol-worshiper ? Was not Joseph a monotheist and not an idol-worshiper ? Was not Moses a monotheist and not an idol-worshiper ? Was not Jesus a monotheist and not an idol-worshiper ? What is the difference between Ibrahim and Noah in the Quran ? =Ibrahim received the rituals of Islam, Monotheism, submission but Noah, although was a monotheist submitter, did not receive any rituals according to the Quran. There is nothing for us to inherit from Noah as faith by itself does not have any ritual to practice. We are to follow Milat Ibrahim as it carries all the practices of THE Salat, Zakat, Hajj and Fasting and we are to apply the laws adjusted in the Quran and not to apply laws applied to the Jews if the Quran came with a new law. Do some of you here accept Abraham as a Jew or Muslim? The Qu'ran Say, "My Lord has guided me in a straight path - the perfect religion of Abraham, monotheism. He never was an idol worshiper." Say, "My Contact Prayers (Salat), my worship practices, my life and my death, are all devoted absolutely to GOD alone, the Lord of the universe. "He has no partner. This is what I am commanded to believe, and I am the first to submit. Surely this Islam is your religion, one religion (only), and I am your Lord, therefore serve Me. Surely they who divided their religion into parts and became sects, you have no concern with them; their affair is only with Allah, then He will inform them of what they did. O followers of the Book! why do you dispute about Ibrahim, when the Taurat and the Injeel were not revealed till after him; do you not then understand? And they say Be Jews or Christians, you will be on the right course. Say Nay! (we follow) the religion of Ibrahim, the Hanif, and he was not one of the polytheists. So how is Abraham the founder of Judaism ? http//www.jewfaq.org/origins.htm#Abraham Does anyone agree with this jewish link?

I just finished reading a chapter of "Arab Conspiricies" and I must say that I am wholely disgusted. x I cannot believe that someone so ignorant and so arrogant could write a book like this claiming to be progressive and claiming to be a guidance. I just read part of the chapter on the Pilgramage and the lying that the author did is disgusting. He never proves that bayt means 'system' he just imposes his own made-up meaning into the Quran, and says that this is the true meaning. He then does that with solat. He really shows his ignorance when he says al-buyoota means 'house' and that buyutan is the dual form (bayt means house and baytaan is the dual form, buyootan is tanweened, which is not the dual.) and further annoyed me with his imaginitive conjectures on buyuti, as all these words occurred in 2189, 2529 and 2461. He accuses the Arabs of misconstruing Arabic words when he wholely fabricates (lies up) new meanings and then claims that it is the original meaning. NO logic, No proof, just his whim! I can't even believe that people would take this book seriously. It just shows that people with limited knowledge will stop at nowhere to put forth their imaginitive ideas. I don't claim to be a professor in Arabic but the first thing someone should do is learn the rules of the Arabic langauge before he or she decides to go about interpreting the Quran. THe QUran says that it is in Arabic, this is the first pre-requisite. If God were to have sent us the Quran in Chinese I am sure that these same fools would neglect to learn the rules and grammar of Chinese and just try to begin interpreting God's message without logic, knowledge or sense. For the last time, and for anyone who hasn't gotten it yet, YOU HAVE TO LEARN ARABIC AND ITS RULES, MEANINGS AND GRAMMAR BEFORE,BEFORE,BEFORE you can understand the Quran. Additionally, just because you don't want to accept that a word can have more than one meaning, and you are too ignorant to even go about looking up those mulitple meanings, because of your one track mind, does not mean that the Quran is ambiguous. The Quran is clear to those who use knowledge, itelligence and good sense. Ambiguous, means "UNCLEAR", without SPECIFIED MEANING, in otherwords when you just have to say "We don't know what it means." But with mulitple meanings, you DO know what it can mean. ANd accepting multiple meanings is a whole lot better than making up your own. Godbless us all, Anwar

peace wakas was talkin about this i was tryin to find it, thought it was its own topic, here it was part of somethin else. anyways, to give my thoughts on the topic... i went here and searched for the search string "YA AYYUHAA ALLATHEENA AMANOO" (a departure from my general method of transliteration but anyways... k i gotta go now, but i will post more later... sorry!

Peace everybody, Why do you all check out the info at http//www.yuksel.org/e/books/rtq.htm and tell me what you think about this. Because I've been practicing the approach suggested by brother Wakas(referencing more than one Quran translation), I'm going to go ahead and purchase a copy myself, GW. Peace, Damon.

Concerning verse 8015, what is the correct translation? Why have some translators adopted "scribes" while others "messengers". There is huge difference! Is there any basis for the "scribes" translation? is it just translated that way since sunnis (erroneously) believe the Prophet was illiterate? Also what is the implication that the word under question is plural, as in more than one messenger? 080.015 YUSUFALI (Written) by the hands of scribes- PICKTHAL (Set down) by scribes SHAKIR In the hands of scribes KHALIFA (Written) by the hands of messengers. MUHAMMAD ASAD by the hands of messengers FREE-MINDS By the hands of revealed ones.

(9 24). Say ?If your fathers, and your sons, and your brothers, and your wives, and your clan, and money which you have gathered, and a trade which you would fear if it declines, and homes which you find pleasing; if these are dearer to you than God and His messenger and striving in the cause of God, then wait until God brings His decision. God does not guide the wicked people.? is the ''messenger'' here referring to Muhammad? The Sunnis have translated this as the reason why we should love muhammad and constantly give him salutations Omari