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. The hadiths are disgrace to islam and defending them is equal to defending the movie Innocent of Muslims. So true what you said, the sahih bukhari is in line with the movie Innocence of Muslims. Perhaps muslim always became an innocent ;D

Shalom, Welcome! welcome I had missed your thread and I apologize. I usually say hello to everyone who joins here. God bless you

Interesting how you your criticizing mind began to work that early! I think the secret in moving forward in guidance is actually how much the believer is doing what he is really believing, the more i do or implement what i believe, the more guidance and new knowledge and wisdom i get. That was applicable when i was a sunni .. the moment i started applying what i know from Hadith, and the more i tried to follow every Hadith i know, I started to see the real truth about it .. aaaall the time when i was just knowing that Hadith and Sunna are right, i was misguided. I am certain of this rule .. do more good deeds to have more guidance and wisdom .. do less or do wrong deeds and start to fall into mind puzzles .. even more .. My understanding of the Quran gets affected! This fact is crystal clear to me. Yes, Sorry i meant deists not agnostics, agnostics say that reason and mind are not enough to know the truth of the world, but deists are much reasonable .. they believe in God or in Designer or Super power, and they may fear that one day after death they will meet Him .. That's OK to be a believer but only there is one more condition left., which is to do good deeds, that would make them true believers. One more thing that can be understood from other Quran verses, which is to NOT deny what they may receive from the scripture as a sign of God! they can't disbelieve or deny something that they don't know, but if it happens that they encountered signs from God from any scripture, and they deny it then they are non believers Those to whom We have sent the Book study it as it should be studied They are the ones that believe therein Those who reject faith therein,- the loss is their own. Atheists who believe in Higher Power are not really atheists .. Of course they aren't .. they just changed the name from God to Higher Power.

Welcome bergenguy!

Peace There are many good jins and many of them are loyal and more courteous than human beings.. (al-Jin) It (Qur'an) guides to the right course and we (jin) have believed in it And we will never associate with our Lord anyone (722) And among us (jin) are the righteous and among us are not so we were divided ways (7211) And among us (jin) are Muslims and among us are the unjust And whoever has become Muslim those have sought out the right course (7214) Good jin will always travel and search for guidance and a true believer, because they cannot be a Khalif. They also like to acquaint and assist the true believers; ie. the same way that the Qur'an told us that jin are searching for guidance and Muhammad, Solomon etc.

not even a single hadith came from muhammed since as per quran muhammed is not even a person ...there is no chance for people to change the words of allah Salaam, You mean to say if not person then its personality.

Thank you all for all the informative posts!

Greetings and Peace, all group ... As for religion is concerned, Im getting to where I?m seeing that God has no religion as we define it. There is a system of God but thats it. I mean all the names we use, like Christian, Buddhist, Muslim etc , and the rituals associated with each religion as if one way of thinking is the most correct one. I think I have been so misstaken there. These are all our own inventions. There is a natural law, and thats it. And God has through the years given us revelations/sighs/messengers to remind us of this. To know He exists, to stop corrupting, and do good, and to remember Him and try to stay close to Him. Everything else is our own inventions. ... This is indeed supported by AQ 262 Surely those who believe; and those who are Jewish, and the Nazarenes, and the Sabians, whoever of them believes in GOD and the Last Day and does good works; they will have their recompense with their Lord, and there is no fear upon them, nor will they grieve. 569 Surely those who believe; and those who are Jewish, and the Sabians, and the Nazarenes, whoever of them believes in GOD and the Last Day and does good works; then they will have nothing to fear nor will they grieve. 494 O you who believe, if you go forth in the cause of GOD, you shall investigate carefully. And do not say to those who greet you with peace "You are not a believer!" You are seeking the vanity of this world; but with GOD are many riches. That is how you were before, but GOD graced you, so investigate carefully. God is expert over what you do. I've yet to hear of a religion that didn't have some version of the Golden rule in it. There are some monotheists in most any "religion." If there was one word that encompasses the Deen (to the best of my understanding) it would be monotheism. All monotheists are brothers and sisters, even if they don't recognize it. For those that aren't currently monotheist...ISA they will come to it before it is too late for them. I've heard it put that "All wars are civil wars, because all men are brothers." Perhaps so, but monotheists are a little closer to each other--or should be. To the best of my understanding, ALLAH doesn't care about religion. ALLAH has sent down a way of life for any who would be Guided. Religion is not inherently bad. This statement might be supported by the following Ayah 2267 For every nation We have established rites which they are to fulfill. So do not let the matter fall into dispute. And call upon your Lord, for you are on a guidance which is straight. ALLAH knows best. peace ~Abdul-Hadi

Salaam, For the leaders I suppose you are right. It is not much about God and religion. It works like the drug business; there are those one street level, there are middle hands and there are brokers and then there is the boss. The consumers are like the followers of that sect you mentioned. The hierarchy from the boss and below are the clergymen and the higher up this hierarchy you go the more insane they get. The boss and his goons do not care about the outcome of their product as long as they are paid. A nice analogy actually. The consumers get so crazy by their product that they can kill for it and the same goes for brainwashed people in religions. And the insanity and crave for more is making them pay any price in the end. They even kill for their product, listen to that. God bless you

Salaam, You are right. Without all hadith and human conjecture the world would be a much better place. As soon as humans delve into religion no rationality applies anymore and superstition flourishes. Anyway, welcome to the forum. God bless you

welcome Like you, many of us reject hadiths because of contradictions and a lot of shocking stuff. Hope you feel belonged! Hafiz, Australia

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welcome bro

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Greetings and Peace, all group @ForTheTruth welcome Did you accidentally the whole thing? ) peace ~Abdul-Hadi

Salaam Earthdom, Please note that my post was not intended as an insult. I tried to formulate myself positively, but perhaps I failed. I meant that most people can understand what you write and your input is appreciated. Hope you will stick around. I tried to help you before when I made a remark on your usage of the word apology that some sensitive people would not be offended. God bless you

welcome bro ) )

welcome bravo