Introduce Yourself

Peace Thanx for the replies. Something else happened during this journey that really ticked me off. I asked coordinator of the school if he could ask the Imam to let me give a small lecture during sunday Ta'leem. At first, they said they will see if they can work me in and schedule it, which was taking waaaayyy too long. Then they finally gave me the okay and gave me a date to give my talk, but it was inconveniently cancelled and they could not (would not) give me a different day to give my talk. First, i wouldnt even DARE to ask for such an appointment over here. I would find myself stoned to death if i told people that they are into diolworshipping, and it may be a good idea to turn that ship around. These guys are something else. They completely reject this message without having ANY reason to reject it. My wife and I were told by the Amir of the mosque that there was woman who had given a talk there a year before my wife and I came to them. According to them, she was from the submission.org persuasion, but her talk wasn't on number 19 it was only about hadith and sunnah. He verbally admitted to me and my wife that after she gave her talk, she told everyone that she was open to questions. He and his son said that they specifically remember that NO ONE had ANYTHING to say!! No questions, no rebuttals, no refutations!! The message is clear and yet they reject for no valid reason. I could come up with a lot of answers, but heres one from someone that knows better than i do; 27 God has sealed upon their hearts and upon their ears, and over their eyes are covers. They will incur a great retribution. 6112 And We divert their hearts and eyesight, as they did not believe in it the first time; and We leave them wandering in their transgression. Im not hearing you LALALALALALALA Puts fingers in ears and Salikah, please do tell yours ) ONE.

Peace and to further add. Who could majority be then? Could it be the established prison relegions? Lets take a look at some numbers. Christianity 2 billion Islam 1.3 billion Hinduism 900 million Secular/Nonreligious/Agnostic/Atheist 850 million Buddhism 360 million Chinese traditional religion 225 million primal-indigenous 150 million African Traditional & Diasporic 95 million Sikhism 23 million Juche 19 million Spiritism 14 million Judaism 14 million Baha'i 6 million Jainism 4 million Shinto 4 million Cao Dai 3 million Tenrikyo 2.4 million Neo-Paganism 1 million Unitarian-Universalism 800 thousand Rastafarianism 700 thousand Scientology 600 thousand Zoroastrianism 150 thousand And according to you, we are a sect of 20 members. Regards Noah Peace I have honestly no idea how these got in the two posts this and the one before it came intot his thread. Im sorry, it was aimed at nobody, i used that excact argument in a hadith debate. But whats its doing here is beyond me i just noticed. Wow, that really made me stand out as a buttneck. Im really sorry if i caused any anger or confusion with anyone ( . Please forgive me, im really going to some wierd phase atm. Regards Noah

Peace Humility, I find what you have expressed re catholicism and later in what you have experienced within mainstream Islam really interesting. I myself was brought up to hold no particular faith, but from my early teens became a genuine spiritual seeker across all faiths and traditions. Through the guidance of good friends I chose Christianity and became a Roman Catholic, eventually taking monastic orders and becoming a Benedictine monk for 3 yrs. Always having been interested by the mystical tradition within the church, theological questions re concepts such as the 'trinity' were not a real problem as from a more mystical viewpoint a lot of 'truth' becomes relative word play. As my understanding of the church became more rooted in historical fact and less hopeful relativism and mystical mumbo-jumbo I had to make a decision about whether I could consciously remain within the fold of an institution so ruined with half truths or outright lies. I decided to leave, the christian church that is, not God. My experience since then has led me to the Qur'an which very much like yourself I have never been able to put aside and has become an absolute neccesity in my life. Islam as I see the majority of Muslims practicing it (Hadiths, arab inculturalisation, over ritualising etc) makes me uneasy. By this I mean, having escaped a christian church lost in the myre of its own illusions and myths the last thing I intend to do is present myself at the front of the queue for an extra value portion of more dodgy dogma and fanciful cultural accessories. So, I can understand where you are coming from somewhat, although obviously your experience within the mainsteam Islamic fold so to speak, is vastly more than mine. I have been a member of this forum community for a couple of years now and have always found it a great place to speak out fears, concerns, off the wall thoughts and most of all do all of this without fear of ridicule or attack. There is a lot of stuff said on this forum that I don't in any way agree with, but I thank God for the opportunity he has granted us all here, the opportunity to use our God ordained intellect to seek the truth. I truly believe that ours is a community of sincere individuals seeking truth, our ultimate guide being God Alone and the Qur'an. We all hope you will return often, you are a valued member of this community. I personally hope to speak with you much more Humility Peace, Gavin

Salam, PostPosted Mon Apr 04, 2005 340 pm Post subject Salam Reply with quote salamualaikum everyone. i am very fresh here.i just found out about this forum 2 days ago...and i decided to join this forum. i am not sure about this forum...is it anti-hadeeth forum? I am new to this web site too. You indicated that not all hadiths are bad, just some and how would we deal with the 'good' hadiths? That's an excellent question and here is my humble answer You can open up a piece of literature/article/quote by Socrates, Plato, Kant, Mother Teresa and find it very good. It might have all the good things of this world Justice, humanity, goodness, piety. And surely you can say these are good words and I'll reflect upon them, but if you live your life by say Kant's words, then you have become a Kantian (actually, in reality, there are Kantians - people who follow all the teachings of Kant). Doing this is idol worhsip. Same case with hadith.

Greetings with peace, Perhaps you meant you have stopped performing the must 2-4-4-3-4 ritual... ) Anwar Azim Peace I have now stopped performing salat as i am not sure about it anymore after reading articles here. The Arab conspiracy article was fascinating. That seems to make sense. However i still have to verify many things myself.

peace One advice try to read without any biased glasses. shock lol regards. Noah

peace be upon you S, many ppl turn to islam after reading al quran. i often hear this from reverts. i hve never heard anyone say this about trditional hadith. the God has given us signs everyhwere, and in this, is a beautiful sign. welcome. Wakas Yes ofcourse, the millions of huffaaz the islamic world knew and still knows were all khalifites...

I know this becoz i come from that culture. Oh, you used to be hindu?

Assalam Alaikum. I have been reading these forums for a while now and today I have registered. Welcome to the forum Antar and may Allah continue to guide you I believe that Islam would be more respected if Muslims followed only the Quran instead of man made laws. I can't begin to say how much I agree!! salaams asdfjk

heres another indicator of how far this arabisation thing has gone.... below is my post sent to soc.religion.islam....a forum where alternative views are allowed... however there being no arabic words the moderator rejected it cause it wasnt clear to him if it is relevant to the forum... I mentioned the god, his book, there being no punishement for adultery prescribed, this being sign the practice is not the god prescribed...however this wasnt relevant to forum about Islam!?....there was no mention of arabic words, there was no any mention of Allah, Quran, Sunnah, Islam, halal and haram......so clearly arabic is essential part of Islam, but not of the true religion... Title of the post Man-made practices/teachings attributed to The God. No2. Stoning for adultery I wish peace, salvation and the well- being to the participants of this forum There`s nothing much to add to the title of the topic...the god has never ordered that aynone should be killed for adultery...His book testifies to this... This is simply an invention falsely attributed to the God and it couldnt be found in His book, His only valid representative.... And those who searh for the judge outside of His book are seeking the judgement of ignorance.... One who believe this practice is from the God should repent and hurry up to study His book properly cause he wasnt making the proper study till now... Killing of innocent, and that is what stoning for adultery is about, is of the greatest sins... Those who propagate this practice are propagating the tiranny...no wonder the Gods wrath and punishements are upon such a people throughout the world...may they repent and come forward to the god and His Word in order to avoid the hereafters punishement which is neverending... best wishes , Zlatan heres his explanation(after rereading my post) of how he didnt recognise that it was relevant to the forum http//groups-beta.google.com/group/soc.religion.islam/browse_frm/thread/1ec38ef8cf914501/1cdc33b413916ade?_done=%2Fgroup%2Fsoc.religion.islam%3F&_doneTitle=Back+to+topics&_doneTitle=Back&&d#1cdc33b413916ade

Nice to hear from you b-lansing! Allow me a correction...The God dont want of us to convert to Islam but to be submissive to Him....this might seem as nitpicking, however it is very important to use the most correct terminology since we learn through the words and based on the words we form the concepts and belief in our heads, and of what is in our head depends what kind of destiny we will have in hereafter...will we end up in the eternal fire or will deserve the bliss. Islam is only one of the arabic words/terms that is misuderstood and innapropriately used...add up few words more( and there is plenty of them outthere) and you get a terrible accumulating effect which is able to horribly change our perception of the truth and the god`s message.... best wishes to all, Zlatan

Peace Ansar u said Thats not true. We have between 500-1000 narrations from Umar bin Khattab. And we have between 100-500 narrations from abu bakr. If you look carefully, then these sahaba have laid down the foundations of hadith criticism. i did n,t ask u how many hadiths were narrited by these two big sahabis wut i wanna know is why did not they order to compile the hadith books if they think hadith is an authontic source of islam they would have ordered to collect the hadith like they order to collect Quran i guess for u Bukhari is far more better muslims than Umer, Abu Bhaker N usman who collect Quran but did not collect hadiths n another thing peoples who spend there whole lives with Muhammed could only have to narrited 500-1000 from Umer hadiths n 100-500 from Abu Bhaker but Abu Hurrera have to narreted 5000 Hadiths really strange peace

Salut Mohammed, In your story and the stories of the other members, there is a good lesson for us ) Thanks for your sincerity.

Salaamun Ansar, I have read the autobiography of El Hajj Malik Shabazz. What is your point? We do not know if El Hajj discovered true Islam because his life was cut short, before he could expound on his transformation after leaving the Nation of Islam. Ma'Salaam, Olu'sanya My point is that you should act like he did. And believe me...he clearly said he was a SUNNI and followed islam like other muslims in the world at that time. The muslims of the east.... I guess you havent read that book at all, otherwise you wouldnt have stated that. Salaam Ansar, I told you I read the book, so that is not open for debate. My name is Olu'sanya, therefore I should not "act" like "any" man, other than myself. That is what truth is... El Hajj had his truth, at the time his autobiography was written he had just recently returned from his pilgrimage, his understanding of Islam was changing. He may have said he was Sunni back then, that in no way means he would be today, besides... who said Sunni was true muslim? He was evolving his understanding of Islam, obviously wasn't afraid to change his perspective as his perceptions developed, the same way you should be evolving yours, based on your "own" experience of Islam, instead of talking about what someone else did. All of my actions are based upon my understanding of Islam, my experience of Islam, not conjecture about someone who cannot speak for themselves. I don't live my life based upon what someone said... who heard it upon good authority that someone said... they hear from so and so that... they heard Olu'sanya doesn't "act" like a true "muslim". You have no idea about how I should act because you don't know me. Any idea you have of me that is not in my writing is pure conjecture. I have the Qur'an as a guide, and my experience is the best teacher, so autobiographies and hadeeth are just the stories of men, that may or may not inspire me in my growth and development, I have Allah as a guide. Ma'Salaam, Olu'sanya

Peace Naxus and all I agree, there are too many people who can be guided by Quran in Urdu that includes my parents and relatives. Its hard for them to understand english whereas Urdu is just like a mother tongue. From Urdu it will be easy to translate to Hindi by some translator and rechecked. I keep searching for something in Urdu that i can forward to my father and all others who need it. God Bless

Peace bro deniel wellcome Somehow I think that life is an endless seeking for what is best for me. If you think you have settled down and found the trouth then you are in deep water. Its only God who know the trouth and ofcourse Quran is the word of God that must be the truth. But anyway you have to read and studdie all life to not forget and keep on walking on the straight path. Everything might not be written in the Quran, but then its important to listen to your heart and feel what is right and wrong. This is why I left some groups and put some hadith behind me. i completly agree with u peace

Good point burhan, Even though the likes of Adam, Noah and Abraham had been around in the past. ... And preaching the same basic message. )

Peace Ansar Once again my point proved! N.B. The Christians would say the exact same thing about Jesus. May Allah guide us all. Roshan We are talking about muslims here. Not the christians. Look what the quran says about sectarian groups and those who dont follow the path of the believers...

Peace be upon you Daniel, Now is the time for you to leard the difference between Du'a and Salaat. One of them means prayer, one of them doesn't. I'll leave it up to you to find out, because you have to do the work anyway. Welcome to the Steep Path

Peace be upon you Ansar, For example the book that has been published, or the articles on this website I am not a supporter of all the positions of that book, nor of the articles, and you will find many who feel the same way. Likewise, those who support the positions of that book do not agree with the understandings of others either. There is only understandings that are debated here to bring out the truth. And we do not relyon theMINDS of other when we know that we are ALL responsible for our OWN MINDS(nafs).