Economics Forum

American corporate tax is lower than Sweden's lol Sweden corporate tax If one earns +1million SEK (about 130.000 USD), they will take 55% rotfl rotfl Estonia is looking good for companies, they only take 20% when profit is distributed. So no tax if one keeps everything in company. Would one be able to send these money off-shore to a sister company, and then avoid taxes completely? EU wants tax from us also. Hence, not all of us can now do business with its countries. No matter how much we despise it, we are forced to turn down the EU customers and clients. The reason for the tax is so unrealistic and deceptive. They said if we want to do business tax free then we have to open office in one of the EU countries. But oh well, not all of us are big corporations and it is obvious that even if we choose to have an office in one of them we will still have to pay local tax.

Greetings and Peace, all group Stocks do not generate interest income. Bonds do. Some stocks generate dividends regularly, some irregularly, and some not at all. When properly researched, buying and selling stocks is not gambling--although just like any other business, returns are not guaranteed. Capitalizing business has many benefits, including creation of jobs, economies of scale, and creation of products (such as modern medicines) that can't be created otherwise. Riba can be understood one of several ways; one way is any form of interest; another (middle) view is anything that is an excessive burden. For a person that has sufficient income and pays a credit card on time, it isn't an excessive burden. For a person living paycheck to paycheck, the credit card with interest rates of 29% is an excessive burden. To take advantage of a person's situation is riba in this view, even if interest is not involved. An example is price gouging. I do find the Islamic banking models to be interesting, but that's going on a tangent from stocks and bonds... ALLAH knows best. peace ~Abdul-Hadi

Bitcoin is just another system that is similar to present fiat system. its not a solution. Its just another product to make money from nothing. In the end, ppl will be chasing after bitcoin and become enslaved to the system. A solution to the present system cannot be another slave and master setting. Aren't we the master here on earth? or are we the failed masters who have created systems to enslave ourselves? Of course having the herd mentality is not helping us but only giving the current minority power to enslave us further. In fact the current global financial crisis is our best chance of changing the whole system altogether, But first we have to realise who is master of the 'new'system and does the 'new' system empowers the masters (all of us) OR otherwise (only the present minority few).

............. after all my original question is.. what policy should we apply for sorting out this thing..called money.. why its become so much important and on other hand its continiously critised by moral and religious teaching.. we are doing double standard here.. every body poor rich, black white, student teacher, religious scholar or don of street they need it and they have a greed for this thing from their starting to ending.. on one hand we are advised to not get trap of money on other hand we advised to b successful and successful is the one who have money.. is it not confusing at all... ............. peace Salaam/Peace Imran, in my Understanding, to eagerly work for (legitimately/lawfully) acquiring "money/properties" is absolutely a Good/Best Deed, in the Sight of AL-LAH, when/if we do This with it, if we can (legitimately/lawfully) acquire it ============================== 261- The example of those who spend their money/goods in the Cause of AL-LAH --(in the form of Zakat-Charity here 8/41 or/and in the form of Sadaqa-Charity here 9/60 & 2/271-274)-- is like a Seed that sprouts forth seven pods, in each pod there is a hundred Seeds; and AL-LAH may multiply (the Rewards even much more than this, even into such a limitless measure therein =40/40) for whoever wishes (it); for AL-LAH is Encompassing, Knowledgeable. QURAN TESTAMENT 2/261 274- Those who spend their money/goods in the night and in the day, secretly and openly, --(in the form of Zakat-Charity here 8/41 or/and in the form of Sadaqa-Charity here 9/60 & 2/271-274)-- they will have their (Abundant & Limitless) Reward with their LORD (=2/261 & 40/40), there is no fear over them and they will never grieve! QURAN TESTAMENT 2/274 26- And give the close relative-friend his/her due, and the poor, and the wayfarer; but do not squander (your money/goods) with (utter) squandering --(by exceeding the limits way beyond that which is Most Equitably and Most Adequately set for that Zakat-Charity here 8/41 or/and for that Sadaqa-Charity here 9/60 = 2/219)-- 27- (Because) those squanderers (may ultimately) become brothers/sisters to the satans, and the Satan (=i.e. the Leader of all of those human and jinn satans here =6/112-113) (thus) became ungrateful to his LORD. 28- Even if you have to turn away from them (=i.e. that close relative-friend, and the poor, and the wayfarer above) because you are (in a situation in which yourself) are seeking a Mercy from your LORD which you hope/wait (receiving) it, then say to them a considerate/gentle saying. 29- And do not make your hand stingy by holding it to your neck, nor shall you lay it fully open (scattering away) --(by exceeding the limits way beyond that which is Most Equitably and Most Adequately set for that Zakat-Charity here 8/41 or/and for that Sadaqa-Charity here 9/60 = 2/219)-- lest you end up --(for being such an extravagant scatterer)-- utterly-blamed and deeply-sorry. QURAN TESTAMENT 17/26-27-28-29 77- And seek with all (money/goods) bestowed upon you by AL-LAH the abode of the Hereafter, --(by rightfully and wholeheartedly giving our Zakat-Charity here 8/41 or/and our Sadaqa-Charity here 9/60 = 2/219 first of all)-- and do not forget your Share in this World (=i.e. we may spend the rest of our money/goods for every legitimate and lawful blessings of this World, for ourselves and our family, as we please =7/32 & ........), and be nice and compassionate (to all people) as AL-LAH has been Nice and Compassionate to you. And do not seek corruption in the land (by destroying the crops and the human-lives therein =2/205). For AL-LAH does Never love (such) corrupters. QURAN TESTAMENT 28/77 Remain in peace/salaam.

Salam alaykum. Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I still believe the lender has to be at least compensated for the amount of inflation that occurs within the loaning period, otherwise it doesn't seem just to me. Lets say I want to build a house right now and I also have the money to buy it. Then someone comes and tell me to give him the money cause he needs it for business, and he will return it to me 2 years later. I consider his situation and I be like okay for the sake of God I will wait 2 more years to buy my house and he can have my money now. Then 2 years later when I receive the money back from him, I find out that because of inflation the material costs have increased, the house which would have cost $80,000 to build 2 years ago, will now cost me $90,000, i.e. $10,000 more. So as a result of this, I will be at a loss and I believe I should be compensated for it. Salaam, I agree

This fair price and what iI said abour value might be comprised in the very common expression in the Qur'an "bil ma3ruf"? Salaam Salamun Alaikum. I agree 100%. Regards, Arman

Salamun Alaikum I have posted my views on this topic here http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9606569.msg350924#msg350924 Best regards, Arman

Now that the prerequisite has been met, let me present a very clear and unambiguous definition of Ribba derived purely from the description given in the Quran i.e. "increase which is not trade" Any increase on the returned sum/asset which is in excess of incurred costs (inflation etc.) affecting a reduction in value of the original sum/asset lent. This definition requires no elaborate argument because it is derived from the precise description provided by the Quran. Salaam well, i will try to traduce part of this article https//nawaat.org/portail/2013/05/24/du-riba-du-grand-singe/ For simplicity, consider the following schedule 1000 $ loan over two years at 10% interest. The first year requires payment of interest 100 $ and 500 $ of capital reimbursment. The second year requires the payment of interest of 50 $ and 500 $ for the remaining capital. this is clear "RIBBA' according to official understanding Now let's remove Haram and replace it by halal simply by playing with words. Let's link the loan to a computer for example. In the "halal" contract, the lender buy a computer and choose to rent it to the borrower. Then "borrower" have to pay a rent of 100 $ for enjoying a computer he didn't pay for the first year. At the end of the first year the "borrower" buy half a computer. For the second year, borrower have to pay 50 $ for enjoying half a computer he didn't pay for a year. Finally, he pay 500 $ for buying the remining half of computer. what does it mean ? clearly, interest is the rent of money. if rent of money is forbidden, then, just by playing with words, we can replace "rent of money" by "rent of the good wich is to be brought by the money". Money, in economics, is considered as a good like others. It is just ignorance in economics to says that renting money is not like renting other goods. Classical understanding of ribba is pure hypocrisie. Ribba is selling words of Gods. it is same root as word Rabb and mean take money for being a sub-Rabb. That's What Allah mean by saying that exchanging "hooda and guideness" for money is not a tijara (commerce). Ribba is what false arbabs (imams, cheikhs, rabbi, monks...) do every day. They are living from what they earn by being dealers of what allah gave for free. it is easy to understand why false arbabs all agree that ribba is not what they eat. Such unanimity is very rare in religion. hail Peace

Salam. Can you describe more about riba and your knowledge from al-kitaab. Salam And Praise be to ALLAAH Alone, The Lord of The Worlds Brother you asked two good questions a) ?Can you describe more about riba?? Yes one can describe it with all sorts of diagrams and background information about the letters/huruwf/signs, which spell ribba. Even if I was to do that I am not in a position to do so, as it would be a waste of your time and mine. The best approach is to carefully study al-amiyr?s posts. He is the Zobri (zuburi), and best equipped to teach you the the meanings of the alphabetical letters/ symbols (aayah = letter) of al- kitaab, which are multi-dimensional /space/time configurations. Be assured there is no mysticism involved, just an unblocked, free mind. b) ?your knowledge from al-kitaab ? Ahhh again good question, but how do I share my knowledge with you? It?s like someone, who has never experienced pain ask's; Can you describe pain?. Say, I start describing what pain is all about etc. If you take this second hand information from me and tell others in your situation, what pain is, you?d only be describing what I felt, with my senses and how it made me feel. Is it real knowledge? Now let?s say while you were passing on second hand information, the wind blows depositing dust particles in your eyes and your eyes feel irritated. That is first-hand experience of one of the dimension of pain. Next a big shrapnel flies into your eye and you feel deep pain, that?s first-hand experience of a different dimension of pain. Only now you will have gained ?aiyn ul yaqiyn and have solid knowledge ?ilm-ul yaqiyn /?of pain . All praise to my Lord, who best equipped us to gain from the fountain of His knowledge? salaam

When reading discussions about taking usury, everyone seem to assume that taking usury is unjust, cheating, inequitable, etc. However, how can people accept such premisses? What if paying even 50% interest is beneficient to me, it is me who is accepting to pay this extremely high interest. Traditionalist translation 2282 summarizing, according to 2282, when we are about to contract a debt we must write it down writing it in fairness not to refuse to write it dictate it be carefull not diminsh anything if the debter is unsound or weak, let a guardian dictate in fairness- call two male witnesses, or one male and two female witnesses the witnesses should not refuse when they are summoned be not averse to writing it, whether small or large have witnesses when barter with one another This is to be more equitable assure accuracy to not attain doubts afterwards have witnesses have no harm done to the witnesses or scribe I can not remember a verse on the Quran that is so full of warnings, advices, information and details as this verse. Also note how this verse (2282) is followed right after the verses about Riba (2275-281). Lets assume that "Riba = usury" is true. So my questions are How can taking usury contradict any of the great amount of above mentioned advices, warnings and information? How is taking usury against Quran's morals / standards (to be unjust, cheating, inequitable, etc.), when both parties have created an agreement, with witnesses, a scribe, and a contract, that follows all points mentioned in 2282 ? Did the debtor not know and accept all the risks? How can this be the fault of the creditor? Peace Not to forget that it is the debtor who has right to dictate in fairness the terms of the debt/loan ......and in fairness and let him who owes the debt dictate. Now think of a situation where the one who owes has been given the chance to dictated the terms of repayments in fairness and the creditor agrees with it. salaam

As long as the trade not contains speculation (maisir),gambling, or no one feel aggrieved.It's allowed in Islam.

Apart from investing our money in heaven via alms to the poor, what about the Co-operative bank? They claim to be ethical. Then again, I could be devious and suggest donating your money to 'sharia compliant' Al-Quaeda ... (sorry, just being silly!) Richard Peace )

Peace I believe half of the food produced in the world is thrown away. Yes in a Times article for Jan/28/2013 it says that 1.2 billion tons of food gets thrown away. So that's alot of waste that could be put to better use. In the end people have to be trained to be productive members of society so that work is not wanting. Joe

Quran 831-12 Woe to those that deal in fraud,- Those who, when they have to receive by measure from men, exact full measure, But when they have to give by measure or weight to men, give less than due. Do they not think that they will be called to account?- On a Mighty Day, A Day when (all) mankind will stand before the Lord of the Worlds? Nay! Surely the record of the wicked is (preserved) in Sijjin. And what will explain to thee what Sijjin is? (There is) a Register (fully) inscribed. Woe, that Day, to those that deny- Those that deny the Day of Judgment. And none can deny it but the Transgressor beyond bounds the Sinner! Please note that those people who deal in fraud, aka, mutaffifin get an increase (Riba?) by taking full measure from people while giving others less than the full measure are people who will enter the hellfire, similar to the previous quoted verses, which say that those who take Riba and do not stop so will have a war with God and his messenger Salaam mohf, They don't "get an increase" but they take exact full measure as per 832. Otherwise, the word "riba" could have used in the aayat for sure, but it is missing . So, I think, this understanding is not correct as per the aayaats quoted. May Allah increase us in knowledge and guide us to His only path pr mmKhan

There are many green citys outside of USA

Salam everybody, I have to share this new podcast about the apple factory. This is a retraction made by This American Life because they discovered many reported errors about the conditions there. Please listen ti this as well in order to get the right picture. http//www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/460/retraction Shalom Aleikhem, I can't believe what happened !! Really ???!! Anyways, thanks for letting us know, thanks to you and "This American Life Podcast" for the honesty. Peace ----------- Student of Allah

I watched the Zeitgeist video in which he discusses the Resource based economy, and I believe it is a complete farce. The first being is that capitalism is need to attain the system he wants. Yet he speaks strongly against it. And secondly, ain't we heading towards a resource based economy already - in the sense that technology is being used to make our lives easier? Also I see Anarcho-Capitalism being the best solution. Puts all this idea of a credit/debt based economy out the window.

I do realize that sunnis and shias have their own systems of banking based on what they perceive as the principles of islam such as no interest, etc. However, from my understanding this stuff is probably largely based on ahadith. I'm interested in some of the concepts so does it have any basis in the Qur'an whatsoever? I think the idea is quite simple you cannot charge interest. Whether hadith is irrelevant the main purpose surrounding Islamic Banking is that you cannot charge interest. Of course, a bank is a business at the end of the day. So it will seek to profit, but through means other than interest.

Capitalism, by it's very nature, is predatory. Hence the Roman saying "Caveat emptor!" (Buyer beware!) Anarchism and capitalism cannot exist side-by-side because eventually a law will need to be passed to keep business from encroaching on the rights of the individual. In American history, the rise of monopolies and Rockefeller's tactics in dealing with smaller petroleum busineses should show the true nature of capitalism. Not to mention the lawless and stateless capitalism that goes on in Mexico known as gang-driven drug trafficking. God's commands limit capitalism to ensure that the practice of buying and selling does not transgress the limits of what is just. Peace, Joel Salam, But that is entirely incorrect. Do not confuse corporatism with capitalism. Governments create monopolies. The majority of the monopolies today exist precisely because of government. Companies like British Telecom (BT), Royal Mail, national rail, NHS etc are monopolies, and became monopolies because of state intervention. The example you gave of Rockafellar abusing its position in the market place is precisely because of state intervention. It is corporatism, not capitalism. The free market on the other hand always creates an alternative. Yes there is a few monopolies in the private sector e.g Microsoft with Windows. But are we deprived of choice here? Linux is a free operating system and equally as powerful. But the choice here for corporations is levering risk with cost. Yes Linux maybe free, but support for linux will be more difficult that Microsoft. But for the poor, the ones that cannot afford Windows, can have Linux - for free! Is this wrong? You forget that capitalism is VOLUNTARY. It is not forced. It is a transaction between 2 or more people coming together. I do not know of a system better than this that God would prefer. There is choice. You are not deceived. You are not forced. Your example of drug trafficking, is precisely because the state controls the drug trade. If people were able to grow drugs in their back garden, it won't lead to mafia's and these outrageous prices because the state permits certain companies to be in the drugs trade and not others. Capitalism is JUST. Socialism is anything but. Salaam, law does not need inventing, it is a natural order born from two simple principles, do all you have agreed to do, that is the basis of all contract law, do not encroach upon another, is the basis of all criminal law. The natural prescriptive law of the land is inalienable and immutable, as it is founded on reason based upon natural order, the law cannot impose it can ONLY protect, is the first, you can only contract with a living tangible man or woman, is the second, your right to contract is unlimited, and you can seek remedy and recourse through a court of your peers. The system of compliance is also simple, based upon a surety bond contract between members of the local community you exist within, and the allodial right of use system removes the fraud of ownership. these ideas are the true Islam, and were in use for many centuries in the past. Nicely put. Jazakullah

Salaam Al-Ahzar, the idea that the corporations who declare themselves 'Islamic banks' have any basis in Islam is like saying, this is an halal brothol because all the girls are Muslim, or this is Halal slavery because these people were born into slavery as their parents were slaves. Firstly what is Riba? Riba is Usury, what is usury? Usury is the theft of the fruits of another. If you gain without any labour, this means someone else has lost their labours without gaining anything from the exchange, as you have invested nothing of yourself. This is because all wealth is generated through human labour, only deceptions invent wealth that has no basis in reality, and that deception is ponzinomics, as the modern banking system uses as its base the ponzi scheme. The need to get an advance upon your labours is quiet acceptable, but this does not require anyone else to drain your efforts for the privilege, they are your labour you wish to gain an advance upon, and you are responsible to repay them, the need for a bank does not exist within that dynamic, all you need is a local repository, a surety bond system of contract and an Islamic community. If you want to understand the repository structure it is explained on my website, a system where you gain an advance without costing any more than you have used, based upon the true generator of wealth, you. http//servantofthelight.com/content/view/176/211/ The ideas are explained further in the contract of community http//servantofthelight.com/content/view/178/235/ Also it is possible to claim the land back from the criminal who control the land through corporations http//servantofthelight.com/content/view/197/239/