The Shahada
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As Salaamu Alaykum,
Throughout the Quran, in instances of the messengers being acknowledged as authentic, the scriptures say that Allah is enough as a witness. It NEVER tells us to testify about the prophets or messengers. For example
Anything good that happens to you is from GOD, and anything bad that happens to you is from you. We have sent you as a messenger to the people, and GOD suffices as witness. (479)
Those who disbelieved will say, "You are not a messenger!" Say, "GOD suffices as a witness between me and you and those who possess knowledge of the scripture." (1343)
This is just like His testifying about His message
But GOD bears witness concerning what He has revealed to you; He has revealed it with His knowledge. And the angels bear witness as well, but GOD suffices as witness. (4166)
It's not necessary for us to testify (through al-shahaada) about the prophets and messengers because God is enough as a witness about His messengers and his worshipers. There is no verse indicating that we should offer a shahaada/testimony about Mohammed to be regarded as Muslims. The rites of Islam/Submission were given to Abraham, and he was one of the submitters, and so were his children. So, how could they say, "Ash-hadu ana Muhammad ar-rasuwlu Allah" if Mohammed wasn't even born yet?
Peace,
Ahmad
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The rites of Islam/Submission were given to Abraham, and he was one of the submitters, and so were his children. So, how could they say, "Ash-hadu ana Muhammad ar-rasuwlu Allah" if Mohammed wasn't even born yet?
Is that is how you support your opinion? 2-285 shows you how you should complete your submission.
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Salaam BelH,
Is that is how you support your opinion? 2-285 shows you how you should complete your submission.
Wow... ) Is this how you support your opinion?
The messenger has believed in what was sent down to him from his Lord, and so did the believers. They believe in GOD, His angels, His scripture, and His messengers "We make no distinction among any of His messengers." They say, "We hear, and we obey. Forgive us, our Lord. To You is the ultimate destiny." (2285)
This only says that Muslims BELIEVE in the prophets and messengers, not testify about them. And if you make no distinction, then why don't you say, "Abraham/Moses/Jesus is the messenger of Allah"? Why Mohammed?
Peace,
Ahmad
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Salaam BelH,
The messenger has believed in what was sent down to him from his Lord, and so did the believers. They
This only says that Muslims BELIEVE in the prophets and messengers, not testify about them. And if you make no distinction, then why don't you say, "Abraham/Moses/Jesus is the messenger of Allah"? Why Mohammed?
Peace,
Ahmad
what is the different between believing and testifying?
Which is more stronger?
By the way, I do include all prophets in my testimony. There is no different between Saten and Us except that we Believe and Testify that God's Commandments are sent through His Messengers; and therefore, we submit to God by following their teachings that were revealed to them from our Lord. -
Peace all
Please every one use his Logic and tell me
If a Christian wants to become a Moslem, why Should He say I bear witness that there is no God But Thy One God "Allah"? He or She already Testified about that before thinking about Islam; The only thing that He or She will add to their believe is Mohamed and His Book "The Quran".Or if any one of you were asked to Come to the Court of any country To Testify about authenticity Of The Messenger of God "Mohamad", Would you Swear and Testify that He is God Messenger?
I'm done with this issue giveup
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Peace all
Please every one use his Logic and tell me
If a Christian wants to become a Moslem, why Should He say I bear witness that there is no God But Thy One God "Allah"? He or She already Testified about that before thinking about Islam; The only thing that He or She will add to their believe is Mohamed and His Book "The Quran".I'm done with this issue giveup
lol its good that you gave up, we surrender to god istislam lal rab not to anyone else and shahada to god and no one else
shahada to other then god is shirk, now you can take a 50/50 chance that you are right and that you are not doing shirk
when putting mohamads name in the shahada, orrrrrrrrrrr you can take 100% chance by not saying mohamads name in shahada still reading the quran knowing its from god brought down through mohamad and know you are not doing shirk. in the end it is your choice -
Being 'muslim' has nothing to do with The Quran, i.e. one can be 'muslim' without knowing of The Quran or reading it etc. This is demonstrated, even in The Quran.
i dont even beleive that all muslims are mo2mins most of them dont even know god, only by name, but a mo2min a true beleiver cannot and should not do shahada to mohamad that is one of the qualities of a beleiver
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Peace BelH,
what is the different between believing and testifying?
Which is more stronger?There is a clear distinction between believing and testifying. Believing is a mentality, an acknowledgement. Testifying, however, is an act of worship.
Say, "My Salaat, my worship practices, my life and my death are all devoted absolutely to GOD ALONE, the Lord of the universe. (6162)
Our acts of worship shouldn't be dedicated to the messengers at all; they are only for God. Placing the messengers' names in our acts of worship is blasphemy.
When God ALONE is mentioned, the hearts of those who do disbelieve in the Hereafter shrink with aversion, but when others are mentioned with Him, they become satisfied. (3945)
This is a clear reference to the Sunni shahaada, in which the unbelievers are INCAPABLE of reciting the true and only shahaada (i.e. "There is no god but Allah" without adding Mohammed's name into it. Don't be one of these...
By the way, I do include all prophets in my testimony. There is no different between Saten and Us except that we Believe and Testify that God's Commandments are sent through His Messengers; and therefore, we submit to God by following their teachings that were revealed to them from our Lord.
This doesn't have anything to do with testifying about their messengership. Making al-shahaada regarding the messengers is an innovation that is not prescribed in the Quran.
Peace,
Ahmad
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Being 'muslim' has nothing to do with The Quran, i.e. one can be 'muslim' without knowing of The Quran or reading it etc. This is demonstrated, even in The Quran.
This is true. The Quran says that Abraham was a Muslim/Submitter, and so were Moses and Jesus, who were also Jews. "Islam" isn't the name of any religion; it is the description, representing our submission to God. Abraham, Moses, and Jesus were around before the transcribing of the Quran, which shows that this wasn't even a requirement for them in their submission. So, yes, a person can be a "Muslim" without knowing of the Quran or of the prophet Mohammed.
Peace,
Ahmad
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what is the different between believing and testifying?
Which is more stronger?You can believe in things due to circumstanial evidence, but you can testify about them, only when you have witnessed it somehow, You can testify about something, only when you are 100% sure , whereas one could be wrong about his belief and change it, if a new evidence crop up.
siki
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Peace
If I'm 100% sure that Mohamed is a Prophet and Messenger of God, then can I testify?no you cant, in order to testify you ahve to be a witness, did you witness his prophethood or messengership........why you so obsessed with mohamad anyway, and if we dont testify does that make us non muslims, does islam belong to god or to mohamad
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Peace BelH,
Believing is a mentality, an acknowledgement. Testifying, however, is an act of worship.
Believing is far from ACKNOWLEDGEMENT, and Testifying is not ACT OF WORSHIPING. Do you Acknowledge the Quran only? or do you act upon the Quran-Believing?
How can testifying that the one who wrote the Quran is a Messenger (A HUMAN BEING) of God be act of Worshiping confused
So these people on the following verse were committing Sin when testifying
3 86 How can God guide a people who have rejected after believing, and they Testified that the messenger is true, and the clarity had come to them? God does not guide the wicked people.
Here it shows that Testifying was a common thing between the people who accepted Mohamed as a Prophet of God
631 When the hypocrites come to you they say ?We bear witness that you are the messenger of God.? And God knows that you are His messenger, and God bears witness that the hypocrites are liars.
Now, Do you consider this Shrik? How can you say about God what you do not Have knowledge of? What is your prove from Quran that this is Shrik? And if you do not have a well-established prove, then I advice you to not Follow Rashad Kalifa Advice Blindly as you did with deleting 9-128 and 129.
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How can testifying that the one who wrote the Quran is a Messenger (A HUMAN BEING) of God be act of Worshiping confused
So these people on the following verse were committing Sin when testifying
3 86 How can God guide a people who have rejected after believing, and they Testified that the messenger is true, and the clarity had come to them? God does not guide the wicked people.
Here it shows that Testifying was a common thing between the people who accepted Mohamed as a Prophet of God
631 When the hypocrites come to you they say ?We bear witness that you are the messenger of God.? And God knows that you are His messenger, and God bears witness that the hypocrites are liars.
Now, Do you consider this Shrik? How can you say about God what you do not Have knowledge of? What is your prove from Quran that this is Shrik? And if you do not have a well-established prove, then I advice you to not Follow Rashad Kalifa Advice Blindly as you did with deleting 9-128 and 129.
why would we have to prove that shahada other to god is shirk, you just brought the proof yourself
both ayat is talking about kufar and monafiqeen, -
Peace All
This what I just learned
Testifying upon something is a result of Believing in this thing.
When God says that Believers are the Ones who believe in the Unseen, then God expect the Believers to Testify that the Unseen is True.
One of the Unseen is the Title of Messenger ship and Prophet hood of Mohamed (PBUH), Jesus, Moses, Abraham, Ismael, Jacob..etc.why would we have to prove that shahada other to god is shirk, you just brought the proof yourself
both ayat is talking about kufar and monafiqeen,I have learned, when I was debating with you about 9-128 and 129 should not be deleted from Quran, that you follow Rashad Kalifa Blindly, which shows in your above short sighted reply. Thus, there is no point of debating with a blind.
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How can testifying that the one who wrote the Quran is a Messenger (A HUMAN BEING) of God be act of Worshiping confused
So, you're saying that testifying about the messenger (through al-shahaada) is NOT an act of worship? Then why do you have to do it? All the things you are required to do in your religion, including recitation of al-shahaada, are considered acts of worship. And all acts of worship should be dedicated to God ALONE, not to the prophets and messengers.
And if you do not have a well-established prove, then I advice you to not Follow Rashad Kalifa Advice Blindly as you did with deleting 9-128 and 129.
I see you are clearly promoting your ignorance and arrogance. When did you EVER hear of me blindly accepting anything? I did extensive research in the matter of the code 19, and I didn't blindly follow any religious guidance without carefully examining it. If you believe that 9128, 129 are actually the authenticated words of God, then you obviously haven't read the verses carefully... But regardless, this is about the shahaada and testifying regarding the prophets and messengers. So, my question is this Since the Quran is complete and fully detailed, why isn't your shahaada (i.e. "Ash-hadu an la ilaaha illa Allah wa'ash-hadu an Muhammad ar-rasuwlu Allah") in the Quran?
Peace,
Ahmad
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when I was debating with you about 9-128 and 129 should not be deleted from Quran, that you follow Rashad Kalifa Blindly, which shows in your above short sighted reply. Thus, there is no point of debating with a blind.
it seems that we have managed to bring you enough ayat to prove you otherwise about shahada, where youwere only able to bring the only 2 ayat that speak of monafiqeen and kufar, now you either take all of the quran or none......
i might wear glasses but thank you i am anything but blind...i have learned one thing about debating, when put in a corner, it resorts to put downs,
thank you, blieve what you want my dear lakom dinakom wali dini -
Peace
If I'm 100% sure that Mohamed is a Prophet and Messenger of God, then can I testify?What to talk of his messengership, you can not even testify about his existence, moreover if you come up with such a testification in any court of law on this planet, You will definitely be proven a liar in cross questioning.
To add, english word "testify" is not equvilant of "shahida" in arabic, which means , a first hand /or real experience, that is why you are told to "believe" in him, not shahida about him, God does not want to press you for a technical lie.
3-86 How shall God Guide those who reject Faith after they accepted it and bore witness that the Apostle was true and that Clear Signs had come unto them? but God guides not a people unjust.
The above aya is talking about those people who were actually present then, and who witnessed (shahda) the truth being presented by Mohammad(pbuh) yet later they converted back.
It does not talk about any testification of his prophethood.
siki
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It does not talk about any testification of his prophethood.
siki
When the hypocrites come unto thee, they say We bear witness that thou art indeed Allah's messenger. And Allah knoweth that thou art indeed His messenger, and Allah beareth witness that the hypocrites indeed are liars.
(631) The glorious opening of a 'surah' dedicated to the hypocrites.
Well according to Quran, the shahada is obviously a clear sign of hypocrisy.. period..
Having said that, as time progress, it seems that those arab hypocrites who loved to refer themselves as "the knowledgeable" (Ulema) eventually get the upper hand and wrote many falsehood and lies which being continously dogmatized, doctrinized and faithfully embraced by millions of people who called themselves muslims for many centuries up until today.
"Beware of the scribes, which love to go in long clothing, and love salutations in the marketplaces, And the chief seats in the synagogues, and the uppermost rooms at feasts Which devour widows? houses, and for a pretence make long prayers these shall receive greater damnation."
-- Iashua Ha Mossiach, Mark 1238-40
