The Shahada
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When the hypocrites come unto thee, they say We bear witness that thou art indeed Allah's messenger. And Allah knoweth that thou art indeed His messenger, and Allah beareth witness that the hypocrites indeed are liars.
(631) The glorious opening of a 'surah' dedicated to the hypocrites.
Well according to Quran, the shahada is obviously a clear sign of hypocrisy.. period..
Peace all
Reread the verse; can you note that God, at the end of the verse says "The Hypocrites Indeed are Lairs"
Now, why God called them Liars and not Moshrkeen, when saying the Shahada)?............ confused
Let me tell you why? Because the Hypocrites do not mean what they say.... They testify that Mohamed is
the Messenger of God, saying with their lips what was not in their hearts (The Hypocrites Sign).What to talk of his messengership, you can not even testify about his existence, moreover if you come up with such a testification in any court of law on this planet, You will definitely be proven a liar in cross questioning.
How about in your court of Law, would you believe me? would you believe that Mohamed is a Prophet of God?
3-86 How shall God Guide those who reject Faith after they accepted it and bore witness that the Apostle was true and that Clear Signs had come unto them? but God guides not a people unjust.
The above aya is talking about those people who were actually present then, and who witnessed (shahda) the truth being presented by Mohammad(pbuh).
So, Saying the Shahda or Testifying about the Prophet was a common and required act by any person who accepts The Quran.
So, why some people, such Ahamed and anna and Edip, are calling it an act of Shrik? Do they have new Revelation from God that calls that Act "Shrik"? -
So, you're saying that testifying about the messenger (through al-shahaada) is NOT an act of worship? Then why do you have to do it? All the things you are required to do in your religion, including recitation of al-shahaada, are considered acts of worship. And all acts of worship should be dedicated to God ALONE, not to the prophets and messengers.
I worship God by being Mercy to My Dad and Mom, should I Stop?
Worshiping = Obeying
Worshiping God = Obeying God Commandments -
How about in your court of Law, would you believe me? would you believe that Mohamed is a Prophet of God?
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Salaam
We can not single out prophet Mohammad in our shahadaas as we are not allowed to discriminate among prophets. So any one who wants to testify should include all prophets, naming each one as a part of the shahada. For us to say he was the last prophet in the line of all the prophets who passed away before him would be inclusive of all, as well as acknowledgement that he is not among us anymore.
So, Saying the Shahda or Testifying about the Prophet was a common and required act by any person who accepts The Quran.
As I understand this was the requirement for those who lived at the same time as the prophet, in order to join him they had to testify him as the prophet and ask others to do the same.
So, why some people, such Ahamed and anna and Edip, are calling it an act of Shrik? Do they have new Revelation from God that calls that Act "Shrik"?
Prophet Mohammad died like the rest of the prophets, to give shahada that he IS the prophet of God indicates that he is still alive and still prophet over us, thus it would come under shirk.
peace -
Peace all
Reread the verse; can you note that God, at the end of the verse says "The Hypocrites Indeed are Lairs"
Now, why God called them Liars and not Moshrkeen, when saying the Shahada)?............ confused
Let me tell you why? Because the Hypocrites do not mean what they say.... They testify that Mohamed is
the Messenger of God, saying with their lips what was not in their hearts (The Hypocrites Sign).Even saying such testimony is an act of the hypocrites, the act of a liars.. the argument will be described below..
How about in your court of Law, would you believe me? would you believe that Mohamed is a Prophet of God?
If you (or someone else) bearing a testimony in the court of law that he/she believes that a guy named Mohammed is a prophet of God.
Then.- Which Mohammad are they talkin' bout? There are millions of Mohammad nowadays.
- If he/she refer to a guy named Mohammad which supposedly lived and died around 1400 years ago, unless he/she is around +1400 years of age, then it is a false testimony, he/she has surely comitted a lie in the court of law (a liar), as it is impossible he/she met this Muhammad guy who lived and died around 1400 years ago.
- If this Mohammad he/refers to is NOT a guy which which supposedly lived and died around 1400 years ago, and happens to be a famous american boxer named Muhammad Ali (for example) which he/she has closely met, and he/she believes that his/her friend, this Muhammad Ali The Boxer is indeed the prophet of God. Then it is of course a TRUE testimony as he/she is entitled to believe in anything that he/she wanted to believe, and his/her right of doing so is protected by law... well at least by law on some secular countries.
So, Saying the Shahda or Testifying about the Prophet was a common and required act by any person who accepts The Quran.
No it isn't, shahada is bullshit (Please excuse my french)..
A sectarian concept deviced by some Sunni/Shia scribes/ulema/priest centuries ago..So, why some people, such Ahamed and anna and Edip, are calling it an act of Shrik? Do they have new Revelation from God that calls that Act "Shrik"?
Agree with you on this one...
Saying bullshit (please excuse my french), is not a crime..
They can say any bullshit (again, please excuse my french) that they wanted..
But of course they're definitely qualified as a liar...Salam / Peace
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Even saying such testimony is an act of the hypocrites, the act of a liars.. the argument will be described below..
If you (or someone else) bearing a testimony in the court of law that he/she believes that a guy named Mohammed is a prophet of God.
Then.- Which Mohammad are they talkin' bout? There are millions of Mohammad nowadays.
- If he/she refer to a guy named Mohammad which supposedly lived and died around 1400 years ago, unless he/she is around +1400 years of age, then it is a false testimony, he/she has surely comitted a lie in the court of law (a liar), as it is impossible he/she met this Muhammad guy who lived and died around 1400 years ago.
- If this Mohammad he/refers to is NOT a guy which which supposedly lived and died around 1400 years ago, and happens to be a famous american boxer named Muhammad Ali (for example) which he/she has closely met, and he/she believes that his/her friend, this Muhammad Ali The Boxer is indeed the prophet of God. Then it is of course a TRUE testimony as he/she is entitled to believe in anything that he/she wanted to believe, and his/her right of doing so is protected by law... well at least by law on some secular countries.
No it isn't, shahada is bullshit (Please excuse my french)..
A sectarian concept deviced by some Sunni/Shia scribes/ulema/priest centuries ago..Agree with you on this one...
Saying bullshit (please excuse my french), is not a crime..
They can say any bullshit (again, please excuse my french) that they wanted..
But of course they're definitely qualified as a liar...
Very rational post, Jafar. Muslims are the only ones on earth that are continuing to drumbeat upon their ancient foolish and distorted belief systems. -
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Salaam
We can not single out prophet Mohammad in our shahadaas as we are not allowed to discriminate among prophets.
Peace all
Farida, we are talking about the shahada for the New Moslems and not about the existing Moslems. I say if a Christian, who believes in God and Jesus and Moses and all prophets, wants to become a Moslem, He or she will have to complete what is missing in His submission to God--accepting Mohamed as a Prophet.Otherwise, what would you ask the Christian to do in order to become a Moslem?
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Even saying such testimony is an act of the hypocrites, the act of a liars.. the argument will be described below..
If you (or someone else) bearing a testimony in the court of law that he/she believes that a guy named Mohammed is a prophet of God.
Then.- Which Mohammad are they talkin' bout? There are millions of Mohammad nowadays.
- If he/she refer to a guy named Mohammad which supposedly lived and died around 1400 years ago, unless he/she is around +1400 years of age, then it is a false testimony, he/she has surely comitted a lie in the court of law (a liar), as it is impossible he/she met this Muhammad guy who lived and died around 1400 years ago.
- If this Mohammad he/refers to is NOT a guy which which supposedly lived and died around 1400 years ago, and happens to be a famous american boxer named Muhammad Ali (for example) which he/she has closely met, and he/she believes that his/her friend, this Muhammad Ali The Boxer is indeed the prophet of God. Then it is of course a TRUE testimony as he/she is entitled to believe in anything that he/she wanted to believe, and his/her right of doing so is protected by law... well at least by law on some secular countries.
No it isn't, shahada is bullshit (Please excuse my french)..
A sectarian concept deviced by some Sunni/Shia scribes/ulema/priest centuries ago..Agree with you on this one...
Saying bullshit (please excuse my french), is not a crime..
They can say any bullshit (again, please excuse my french) that they wanted..
But of course they're definitely qualified as a liar...Salam / Peace
Peace All
I have provided verses to prove that the act of saying the Shahadda was common during prophet time3 86 How can God guide a people who have rejected after believing, and they Testified that the messenger is true, and the clarity had come to them? God does not guide the wicked people.
631 When the hypocrites come to you they say ?We bear witness that you are the messenger of God.? And God knows that you are His messenger, and God bears witness that the hypocrites are liars.
Now you have provided non-quranic evidences (bullshit ;D excuse my French) to support your argument; Jafar, my advice to you and everybody, only Quran can dictate and not you.
I will agree with you if you bring me the Truth from the Book, as I did. Let us be a true believers and accept the Quran as our Final and decisive Judgment. Let us cut the aggressive language between us so we can focus and find the truth.
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Peace all
Farida, we are talking about the shahada for the New Moslems and not about the existing Moslems. I say if a Christian, who believes in God and Jesus and Moses and all prophets, wants to become a Moslem, He or she will have to complete what is missing in His submission to God--accepting Mohamed as a Prophet.Otherwise, what would you ask the Christian to do in order to become a Moslem?
a new muslim and old muslim a green one or purple a fat one or skinny one, one from outter spaces one from the deep waters anywhere anything you want muslim, you are right belH you can do shahada for mohamad, IT IS ONLY TRUE BELIVERS AND MO2MININ WHO DO NOT DO SHAHADA FOR MOHAMAD,
LA TAQOOL MO2MIN QOOL MUSLIM 7ATA YOU2MIN BILLAH
SO UNTIL YOU START BELEIVEING AND DOING SHAHADA FOR GOD ALONE YOU ARE STILL AT THE LEVEL OF A MUSLIM -
SO UNTIL YOU START BELEIVEING AND DOING SHAHADA FOR GOD ALONE YOU ARE STILL AT THE LEVEL OF A MUSLIM
I do not do shahada (the one under debate in this thread) any more, I was born Moslem. But when I left the Hadiths Sect, I Retook the Shahada by saying "I Submit only to Allah"
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I do not do shahada any more, I was born Moslem.
so was i, not only a muslim but my father was a shiekh so yes we did shahada for mohamad everytime we prayed, i stopped when i became a true mo2min, a submitter..........
and if you dont do shahada as you claim, why are you wasting everybodies time with something you know is wrong, and if you were born a muslim, and still do shahada, you are still a muslim and have not been promoted to a mu2min yet.... so please allah yi5alik jarib 2i2ra lkalam 2abil ma trod 3al posts -
so was i, not only a muslim but my father was a shiekh so yes we did shahada for mohamad everytime we prayed, i stopped when i became a true mo2min, a submitter..........
and if you dont do shahada as you claim, why are you wasting everybodies time with something you know is wrong, and if you were born a muslim, and still do shahada, you are still a muslim and have not been promoted to a mu2min yet.... so please allah yi5alik jarib 2i2ra lkalam 2abil ma trod 3al postsPlease reread my post (after I audited); moreover, we are debating about the Shahadda for the new Moslems.
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Please reread my post (after I audited); moreover, we are debating about the Shahadda for the new Moslems.
i dont think you read this or any posts so i reposted it for you and for ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL new muslims
a new muslim and old muslim a green one or purple a fat one or skinny one, one from outter spaces one from the deep waters anywhere anything you want muslim, you are right belH you can do shahada for mohamad, IT IS ONLY TRUE BELIVERS AND MO2MININ WHO DO NOT DO SHAHADA FOR MOHAMAD,
LA TAQOOL MO2MIN QOOL MUSLIM 7ATA YOU2MIN BILLAH
SO UNTIL YOU START BELEIVEING AND DOING SHAHADA FOR GOD ALONE YOU ARE STILL AT THE LEVEL OF A MUSLIMi have an idea for all those who want to be muslims, why dont they skip the shahada for mohamad and become straight mo2mins or true believers by doing shahada or submitting to god alone
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a new muslim and old muslim a green one or purple a fat one or skinny one, one from outter spaces one from the deep waters anywhere anything you want muslim, you are right belH you can do shahada for mohamad, IT IS ONLY TRUE BELIVERS AND MO2MININ WHO DO NOT DO SHAHADA FOR MOHAMAD,
LA TAQOOL MO2MIN QOOL MUSLIM 7ATA YOU2MIN BILLAH
SO UNTIL YOU START BELEIVEING AND DOING SHAHADA FOR GOD ALONE YOU ARE STILL AT THE LEVEL OF A MUSLIMi have an idea for all those who want to be muslims, why dont they skip the shahada for mohamad and become straight mo2mins or true believers by doing shahada or submitting to god alone
D I think repititon was requird, cause even i missed the punch line, ) keep it up anna.
siki
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Peace all
Farida, we are talking about the shahada for the New Moslems and not about the existing Moslems. I say if a Christian, who believes in God and Jesus and Moses and all prophets, wants to become a Moslem, He or she will have to complete what is missing in His submission to God--accepting Mohamed as a Prophet.Otherwise, what would you ask the Christian to do in order to become a Moslem?
Simple..
I would ask the Christian (or whomever) to submit himself/herself to God..
I would NOT ask the Christian (or whomever) to meet some Sunni/Shia cleric to be taken testimonied.It is easier said than done actually, thus no testimony is required.. as God knows what lies within the human heart.
As matter of fact, some christians are 'more submissive to God' than the Sunni/Shia..There are many references on Quran for the above, but I let you seek those verses yourself...
You see, some of the people here are still suffering from "the sectarian syndrome"...
That people should 'believes in the same thing', in order to be saved/go to heaven etc..
And Heaven is 'available' exclusively only for specific sect..The Shahada itself was 'invented' by the Sunni/Shia clerics (along with other dogmas, for instance the so called 'five pillars' when they were 'defining' a new sect which to be called "Islam", due to the influence of Christianism and Judaism sect. Or in other words, taking Judaism an Christianism as the 'role model'.
In Christianism they have "Symbolum Apostolorum", (Creed of The Apostle)
"I BELIEVE in God, the Father almighty, Creator of heaven and earth. I believe in Jesus Christ, His only Son, our Lord. He was conceived by the power of the Holy Spirit and born of the Virgin Mary. He suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, died, and was buried. He descended to the dead. On the third day He rose again. He ascended into heaven and sits at the right hand of God, the Father Almighty. From thence He shall come to judge the living and the dead. I believe in the Holy Spirit, the holy catholic Church, the communion of saints, the forgiveness of sins, the resurrection of the body, and the life everlasting. Amen."In Judaism they have "The Shema"..
"Hear, O Israel! The LORD is our God! The LORD is One!"Thus it is natural that they need to invent a new testimony for the new sect to be called Islam...
And I wouldn't be surprised either, when some sectarian people in this forum will also eventually invent a new sect called "God Alone" or "Quran Alone" and invent a set of dogmas which includes a new "Testimony" or "Shahada" for its member and demonizing the members of other sects.... it's an endless cycle of hatred, pride and hypocrisy..
It is much better to end this 'sectarian paradigm'... NOW.
Salam / Peace
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VIOLATION NO. 1
- And when God alone is mentioned, the hearts of those who do not believe in the hereafter shrink, and when those besides Him are mentioned, lo! they are joyful.
Why do you have to mention the name of Muhammad? Can't you just mention "God"?
VIOLATION NO. 2
- ... We make no distinction between any of His messengers.
Your repeated mentioning of Muhammad gives him distinction over other messengers of God.
VIOLATION NO. 3
- Whatever benefit comes to you (O man!), it is from God, and whatever misfortune befalls you, it is from yourself, and We have sent you (O Prophet!), to mankind as a messenger; and God is sufficient as a witness.
We read here that God is already sufficient as a witness to the messengership of Muhammad. Why do you need to testify to it? Were you there when Muhammad was assigned as a messenger?
VIOLATION NO. 4
63 1. When the hypocrites come to you, they say We bear witness that you are most surely Allah's Messenger; and Allah knows that you are most surely His Messenger, and Allah bears witness that the hypocrites are surely liars.
That is what the hypocrites did.
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VIOLATION NO. 1
- And when God alone is mentioned, the hearts of those who do not believe in the hereafter shrink, and when those besides Him are mentioned, lo! they are joyful.
Why do you have to mention the name of Muhammad? Can't you just mention "God"?
VIOLATION NO. 2
- ... We make no distinction between any of His messengers.
Your repeated mentioning of Muhammad gives him distinction over other messengers of God.
VIOLATION NO. 3
- Whatever benefit comes to you (O man!), it is from God, and whatever misfortune befalls you, it is from yourself, and We have sent you (O Prophet!), to mankind as a messenger; and God is sufficient as a witness.
We read here that God is already sufficient as a witness to the messengership of Muhammad. Why do you need to testify to it? Were you there when Muhammad was assigned as a messenger?
VIOLATION NO. 4
63 1. When the hypocrites come to you, they say We bear witness that you are most surely Allah's Messenger; and Allah knows that you are most surely His Messenger, and Allah bears witness that the hypocrites are surely liars.
That is what the hypocrites did.
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Say "O men! I am sent unto you all, as the Messenger of Allah, to Whom belongeth the dominion of the heavens and the earth there is no god but He it is He that giveth both life and death. So believe in Allah and His Messenger, the unlettered Prophet, who believed in Allah and His words follow him that (so) ye may be guided." (7-15
What you have said above are the words of God that Mohamed taught you in the book he wrote and believed in and followed. And the reason you are repeating them is because you accepted his teachings as a divine teachings; thus you are Testifying that he is the Prophet of God.
If the Jews and christian do not accept Mohamed, they are violating 2-285
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Peace Tony
I agree with what you wrote, i just have a small thought that i would share.
First i want to clarify that i do not do the shehada which includes prophet Mohamed name ever since i followed the quraan alone cause God name is never associated with any other names (la illah illa allah is mentioned alone). But of course i believe in all the messengers including Mohamed without any discrimination between them.
386 How can God guide a people who have rejected after believing, and they witnessed that the messenger is true, and the clarity had come to them? God does not guide the wicked people.
From the above verse God didnt critisize the believers who did witness that the massenger is true.
Were you there when Muhammad was assigned as a messenger?
Does that mean that people who was there should witness the messenger? if the answer is yes, so God didnt critisize the hypocrites for saying they bear witness, but cause they did not say it sincerly, they say with their tongue what is not in there hearts.
peace
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386 How can God guide a people who have rejected after believing, and they witnessed that the messenger is true, and the clarity had come to them? God does not guide the wicked people.
From the above verse God didnt critisize the believers who did witness that the massenger is true.
Does that mean that people who was there should witness the messenger? if the answer is yes, so God didnt critisize the hypocrites for saying they bear witness, but cause they did not say it sincerly, they say with their tongue what is not in there hearts.
The above aya is talking about those people who were actually present then, and who witnessed (shahda) the truth being presented by Mohammad(pbuh) yet later they converted back.
It does not talk about any testification of his prophethood
The emphasis is on witnessing the truth being presented by the apostle, Not on testification that he is the prophet, even those people could not testify, because they did not witness Mohammad pbuh being crowned as a prophet/messenger.
siki
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Peace Siki,
The above aya is talking about those people who were actually present then, and who witnessed (shahda) the truth being presented by Mohammad(pbuh) yet later they converted back.
It does not talk about any testification of his prophethood
The emphasis is on witnessing the truth being presented by the apostle, Not on testification that he is the prophet, even those people could not testify, because they did not witness Mohammad pbuh being crowned as a prophet/messenger.
bravo
You beat me to it )
Indeed they were testifying to the truth and not his messengership, otherwise there is a huge contradiction with many other verses in al-quran (see Tony's post).
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Peace BelH,
What you have said above are the words of God that Mohamed taught you in the book he wrote and believed in and followed. And the reason you are repeating them is because you accepted his teachings as a divine teachings; thus you are Testifying that he is the Prophet of God.
If the Jews and christian do not accept Mohamed, they are violating 2-285
This is ridiculous. The scriptures say that Abraham was a muslim/submitter; did he too accept Mohammed as a prophet and messenger? Moses and Aaron were also among the muslims, as was Jesus. None of them ever said, "Ash-hadu an Muhammad ar rasuwlu Allah" in their testimony. The scriptures state very plainly that Abraham was neither a Nazarene (or "Christian" or a Jew. Regardless, though, you never answered my question
Since the Quran is complete and fully detailed, why isn't your shahaada (i.e. "Ash-hadu an la ilaaha illa Allah wa'ash-hadu an Muhammad ar-rasuwlu Allah" in the Quran?
Can you answer this, brother? Do you think God forgot to put it in there? He clearly states in the scripture that the Quran is perfect, complete, and fully detailed; and the only shahaada included in the book is, "La ilaaha ila Allah" (There is no god but/except Allah). So, why isn't your shahaada also included in the reading if it is the testimony that we are all told to declare?
Peace,
Ahmad