The Shahada
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isma3 belH, shahada lillah faqat, lay allah sub7anahu wata3al yshahad innon monafiqeen, la2inno shahado 3ala mohamad liyabno fitna. ma kan fi shahada la mo7amad 7ata 3a ayamo, ma fi, wiilyoum lfitna ba3da lsunna yaqoolo itha l2insan ma shahada bi mohamad la takfi w deeno laysa kamil , kayfa lshahada bil llah la takfi kayf ya albi ya belH..... qool howa allah a7ada allahu lsamad lam yalid wlam youlad WALAM YAKOON LA7O KUFOOWAN A7AD.
sub7an allah, inna lillah w inna ilayhi raji3oon
the reason they added mohamad the monafiqeen only to pull people away from god aloneAnna, forget about the Shahada Today, and focus on the time of Prophet ( >)
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Anna, please reread the Verse, and do not be a HARD HEADED; otherwise, I'm not going to answer you any more... police please focus on my Question, Is the act of saying "we bear witness that Prophet Mohamed is God's Messenger" was a common act during prophet time?
no it was not......and i explained to you why, and i will teil you again incase you didnt understand my arabic writing, the reason god did shahada that the monafiqeen are liars is because they were trying to do fitna they wanted people to add mohamad so as people would pull away from the idea of god alone, but no true beleivers of the time of mohamad ever did shahada because god made it very clear in the quran, shahada belongs to him alone, and considering the quran came down on them first, they werent about to go against gods word.....we as sunna or at least myself we used to beleive that the shahada is to become a muslim but you forget that we also do it when we pray and i hear more sunna people today say allahu ma salli 3a mohamad more then they say wahdo allah, and the truth is when someone tells me salli 3ala lnabi i reply wahdu allah..............i hope i answered your question
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63 1. When the hypocrites come to you, they say We bear witness that you are most surely Allah's Messenger; and Allah knows that you are most surely His Messenger, and Allah bears witness that the hypocrites are surely liars.
I have been struggling with the Red part, why does God say that HE knows that YOU are his messenger? why doesn't HE bears witness? Whereas HE does testify against hypocrites.
I have started a new thread in questions on quran section regarding this issue because i dont want to hijack the existing important discussion, kindly post your ideas there.
peace
siki
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I chose it because it has every thing believers should endorse to complete their submission. But maybe you have something else in mind; share it Brother.
I think to bear witness that there is no god but God is the greatest testimony of all.
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no it was not......and i explained to you why, and i will teil you again incase you didnt understand my arabic writing, the reason god did shahada that the monafiqeen are liars is because they were trying to do fitna they wanted people to add mohamad so as people would pull away from the idea of god alone,
Free-Minds Translation
In the name of God, the Almighty, the Merciful.
631 When the hypocrites come to you they say ?We bear witness that you are the messenger of God.? And God knows that you are His messenger, and God bears witness that the hypocrites are liars.
632 They have chosen their oath as a deceit, thus they repel from the path of God. Miserable indeed is what they do.
633 That is because they believed, then disbelieved. Hence, their hearts are sealed; they do not understand.
634 And when you see them, you are impressed by their physical stature; and when they speak, you listen to their eloquence. They are like blocks of wood propped-up. They think that every call is intended for them. These are the enemies, so beware of them. May God condemn them; they have deviated.
635 And if they are told ?Come and let the messenger of God ask for your forgiveness,? they turn aside their heads, and you see them walking away in pride.When reading the above, please note in 63-2, the word "Their Oath"; What was the Oath they Took in 63-1?
Moreover, 63-3, please note "They believed...then disbelieved"; What was their first act that implied their Believing? is it the first act of 63-1, the Shahada?
Finally, would you call 63-5 act of asking the prophet to ask God for their forgiveness is "SHIRIK"? -
I think to bear witness that there is no god but God is the greatest testimony of all.
Peace
You are right; but Saten Testifies that there is no God but God, why God still Condemns him ?
Because, He did not Obey God. Thus, Saying there is no God but God without obeying Him will not save us. But 2-285 is what will save us, which has every thing we need to do. -
I think to bear witness that there is no god but God is the greatest testimony of all.
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The Messenger believeth in what hath been revealed to him from his Lord, as do the men of faith. Each one believeth in Allah, His angels, His books, and His Messengers "We make no distinction between one and another of His Messengers." And they say "We hear and we obey; Thy forgiveness, Our Lord, and to Thee is the end of all journeys." (2-285)
I would add to the above, this command from God
2136 "Say we believe in God and in what was sent down to us and what was sent down to Abraham, and Ishmael, and Isaac, and Jacob, and the Patriarchs, and what was given to Moses and Jesus, and what was given to the prophets from their Lord; we do not make any distinction between any of them and to Him we submit.?
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Peace Hope,
The discussion is not about declaration of faith/trust/imaan but testifying/witnessing/shahada according to al-quran.
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Peace Hope,
The discussion is not about declaration of faith/trust/imaan but testifying/witnessing/shahada according to al-quran.
Peace Truthseeker11
Yes, i understand )
But i used this verse , to clarify what god has ORDERED us to SAY, he didnt order us to SAY shahada.
This is my humble understainding so far.
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Peace Hope,
Testifying/witnessing that there is no god but God is only for God Himself, the controllers, and those with knowledge
318 God bears witness that there is no god but He, as do the controllers, and those with knowledge, He is standing with justice. There is no god but Him, the Noble, the Wise.
All others are excluded even from bearing witness that there is no god but God!
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Peace Hope,
Testifying/witnessing that there is no god but God is only for God Himself, the controllers, and those with knowledge
318 God bears witness that there is no god but He, as do the controllers, and those with knowledge, He is standing with justice. There is no god but Him, the Noble, the Wise.
All others are excluded even from bearing witness that there is no god but God!
Peace truthseeker11
Sure there is no god but God, i think God wants us to believe in that and act accordingely , not to testify.
my humble understanding so far.
What is the defination of those with knowledge according to the quraan??
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Peace Hope,
Testifying/witnessing that there is no god but God is only for God Himself, the controllers, and those with knowledge
318 God bears witness that there is no god but He, as do the controllers, and those with knowledge, He is standing with justice. There is no god but Him, the Noble, the Wise.
All others are excluded even from bearing witness that there is no god but God!
Peace
So, your argument is to not only exclude Mohamed and all the other profit from our testifying, but also God. Is that true?Peace truthseeker11
What is the defination of those with knowledge according to the quraan??
God Question? Can I say that they are the ones who are knowledgeable of the book.
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These messengers; we blessed some of them more than others. For example, GOD spoke to one, and we raised some of them to higher ranks. And we gave Jesus, son of Mary, profound miracles and supported him with the Holy Spirit. Had GOD willed, their followers would not have fought with each other, after the clear proofs had come to them. Instead, they disputed among themselves; some of them believed, and some disbelieved. Had GOD willed, they would not have fought. Everything is in accordance with GOD's will
Do we understand something from this? or we have to debate the issue in detail. If some one has time he or she can read the thread "Praise be to Muhammad Rasul Allah" before discussing.
Please try to understand what is "Shahada" and at time of Prophet Muhammad why it was necessary to bear the witness for one who enetered the religon of Allah.
Yes, we all know the verse about not making a distinction between the messengers.
However, the effect of shahadah seems to resemble what is mentioned in 3945 for some.Yusuf Ali When Allah, the One and Only, is mentioned, the hearts of those who believe not in the Hereafter are filled with disgust and horror; but when (gods) other than He are mentioned, behold, they are filled with joy!
I guess some only see...
I testify that there is no GOD and MOHAMMAD is his messsenger
and they rejoyce, with love for their beloved idol.
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Peace BelH,
Saying the Shahadda was common during the prophet time
If it was a practice that was supposed to be practiced by all the believers, then Allah would've definately preserved it in His book, the Quran. So, again, I'm asking you
WHY ISN'T YOUR SHAHAADA "ASH-HADU AN LA ILAAHA ILA ALLAH W' ASH-HADU AN MUHAMMAD AR-RASUWLU ALLAH" IN THE QURAN?
If these words are actually in the Quran, then please state the verse so we can identify them. Until you can prove that this is a statement from God's guidance for us to uphold, however, you are practicing a manmade innovation, which constitutes "shirk".
Peace,
Ahmad
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Ahmed Bilal wrote;
Are you actually buying into your own worthless words? This doesn't make any sense at all! How do you know followers had to make a testimony about Mohammed before they entered into monotheism? If Mohammed was promoting pure monotheism, worship to GOD ALONE, why would he include his own name in a testimony dedicated to God? If we are advised not to make ANY DISTINCTION among any of the prophets and messengers, why would he tell you to say, "I bear witness that MOHAMMED is THE messenger of Allah"? Is he the only one? Stop preaching your shirk.
The Quran clearly claims to be perfect, complete, and fully detailed. Do you disagree with this? And if you agree that the Quran is what it claims to be, then
WHY ISN'T YOUR SHIRK SHAHAADA INCLUDED IN THE SCRIPTURES?Peace,
Ahmad
You never seem to read the posts of others.
The first question I asked in my post was "How the hell is it shirk if some one say Muhammad is Rasul of Allah?"
But like your previous behavior you never bothered to answer.Regarding distinction among messengers, you still not bothered to read the verse I quoted, for you once again
These messengers; we blessed some of them more than others. For example, GOD spoke to one, and we raised some of them to higher ranks. And we gave Jesus, son of Mary, profound miracles and supported him with the Holy Spirit. Had GOD willed, their followers would not have fought with each other, after the clear proofs had come to them. Instead, they disputed among themselves; some of them believed, and some disbelieved. Had GOD willed, they would not have fought. Everything is in accordance with GOD's will.Brother try to cool down start analyzing things rationally.
Did I say that it is included in Quran?
In my first post I also wrote that;
It is statement of fact and no Muslim can deny it, if I do not believe in Muhammad as Messenger of God I am not a Muslim according to Quran, if any one wants to debate it we can.Belh have some excellent points but off course for those who understand.
Sorry Mr. Been I do not got your point?
Yes I love Muhammad and Allah loves Muhammad.
Yes Muhammad is Rasul of Allah!and Yes
Allah has blessed some messengers more than others and Yes Allah has raised some of them to HIGHER ranks.Now if some one is jealous with the status of Muhammad (PBUH) let him or her.
Please be assure that in any case no one; Muhammad or any one else is equivalent to or even near to God in that sense.
Allah ho Akbar
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Peace BelH,
If it was a practice that was supposed to be practiced by all the believers, then Allah would've definately preserved it in His book, the Quran. So, again, I'm asking you
WHY ISN'T YOUR SHAHAADA "ASH-HADU AN LA ILAAHA ILA ALLAH W' ASH-HADU AN MUHAMMAD AR-RASUWLU ALLAH" IN THE QURAN?
I Showed you in verses 631 and 386; please reread my analysis.
Peace all
I think many people have a psychological problem, I will call it "MohamedPhobia". I will discuss this in a different thread one day (In Shaa Allah).
This is for every one who thinks that "Testifying that Mohamed is the Prophet of God" is Shrik.Let us take an example
If I were in any court to testify, I will Have to raise my Hand and swear that I will only say THE TRUTH and nothing BUT THE TRUTH.What is the Truth? Who Defines the Truth? the answer is in the following verse
1082 ?And so that God will set the truth with His words, even if the criminals hate it.?
Now, did God Order the Believers (The True Submitters) to not conceal our Testimony of Truth?
2-140 ?Or do you say that Abraham and Ishmael and Isaac and Jacob and the Patriarchs were all Jewish or Nazarene?? Say ?Are you more knowledgeable or is God?? Who is more wicked than one who conceals a testimony with him from God? God is not unaware of what you do.
Now, all of us are ordered to Testify and not conceal the Truth (God's Words). Now, Should I Testify That Prophet Mohamed, Jesus, Moses, and Abraham are God's Prophets? Or should I Conceal? Should I Conceal My Testimony for the following
3340 Mohammed was not the father of any of your men, but he is the messenger of God and the seal of the prophets. And God is fully aware of all things.Guess what, if you keep on testifying about God's Words (all of God's Verses), you will be among the following
4386 And those whom they call on beside Him do not possess any intercession; except those who bear witness to the truth, and they fully know.
They will be the ones who will be given the permission to Intervene and ask for God's forgiveness for their loved ones.Now Do not call Testifying with the Truth Shirk; otherwise, you are promoting your own god's words; and I and the true believers do not submit to them.
May God Bless the ones who testify with the Truth.
(I'm using Free-Minds Quran Translation)
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Peace Raj-ah,
The first question I asked in my post was "How the hell is it shirk if some one say Muhammad is Rasul of Allah?"
But like your previous behavior you never bothered to answer.It's not "shirk" to say that Mohammed is the messenger of Allah, and I never said it's shirk to state this.
Regarding distinction among messengers, you still not bothered to read the verse I quoted, for you once again
These messengers; we blessed some of them more than others. For example, GOD spoke to one, and we raised some of them to higher ranks. And we gave Jesus, son of Mary, profound miracles and supported him with the Holy Spirit. Had GOD willed, their followers would not have fought with each other, after the clear proofs had come to them. Instead, they disputed among themselves; some of them believed, and some disbelieved. Had GOD willed, they would not have fought. Everything is in accordance with GOD's will.So, you're using this verse to justify your idolization of Mohammed, by saying he's achieved a "higher rank" among the messengers? Maybe you haven't noticed, but Mohammed's name isn't even mentioned ANYWHERE in this verse at all. So, who raised Mohammed to this "high rank", YOU?
Did I say that it is included in Quran?
In my first post I also wrote that;
It is statement of fact and no Muslim can deny it, if I do not believe in Muhammad as Messenger of God I am not a Muslim according to Quran, if any one wants to debate it we can.This is wrong. No BELIEVER can deny that Mohammed is the messenger of Allah, and nobody is disputing this. Mohammed WAS a messenger of God. Abraham was also a messenger of Allah, and I'm sure he never recited a shahaada about Mohammed; but you obviously still don't understand this basic fact. If we practice Islam/Submission and monotheism, following the "Millat Ibraheem"/Religion of Abraham, that means the rites of our rituals are the same ones that Abraham practiced. This is even confirmed in the Torah, that Abraham's salaat, zakaat, hajj, and even wudhu are practiced by submitters today. So, why are you changing the testimony that applies to ALL submitters, the declaration that there is one supreme god and He is WAAHID, by adding a prophet's name to it? This is what makes it "shirk", and the fact that it is NOT included in the Quran is proof enough that it is a manmade innovation.
Peace Belalhammad,
Reciting "al-shahaada" is considered an act of worship, and this is an undisputable fact. It must be acknowledged in order to be a true submitter and believer; so the shahaada is something that ALL submitters and believers can attest to as DEFINATE, regardless of the time period in which they lived. We, as muslims, can acknowledge Mohammed's prophethood and messengership, but Moses, who was also a submitter and believer, can't do this, because Mohammed didn't come until AFTER Moses. The same goes from Jesus, Abraham, Isaac, Ishmael, and all the other prophets and messengers who existed before Mohammed was born and delivered the Quran... Your argument is something I already pointed out before
Say, "My Salaat, my worship practices, my life and my death are all devoted absolutely to GOD ALONE, the Lord of the universe. (6162)
Our acts of worship shouldn't be dedicated to the messengers at all; they are only for God. Placing the messengers' names in our acts of worship is blasphemy.
When God ALONE is mentioned, the hearts of those who do disbelieve in the Hereafter shrink with aversion, but when others are mentioned with Him, they become satisfied. (3945)
This is a clear reference to the Sunni shahaada, in which the unbelievers are INCAPABLE of reciting the true and only shahaada (i.e. "There is no god but Allah" without adding Mohammed's name into it. Don't be one of these...
And you STILL haven't explained why Mohammed's name is not in the shahaada mentioned in the Quran (i.e. 31. If your shahaada is true and definate, and if it is supposed to be recited by all muslims throughout the world, WHY ISN'T IT IN THE QURAN? What you provided was your opinion on the issue, but you didn't explain this at all, and you certainly didn't show me anywhere in the Quran where your testimony is mentioned... Who created this shahaada, men or Allah? If it is created by God, then show me in the Quran where Allah testifies to this fact and encourages us to do the same...
Peace,
Ahmad
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2278 Translated by Uncle Cash.
And walk in the blessed path of God, of those naturally chosen, the faith of your Father Abraham. He gave you the name, submitters, and this the messenger can testify to you, and so can you testify to the people. So practise prayers, and be beneficient, and be steadfast with God, he is your ally, a praised ally, and praised saviour.
To, me, this would rather indicate, that it was the prophet who testified to the faith of Abraham. And the people testified to it aswell.