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  4. Free-Minds.org is another Sect...like Suni and Shia Sects.

Free-Minds.org is another Sect...like Suni and Shia Sects.

Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved General Issues / Questions
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  • B Offline
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    belH
    wrote on last edited by
    #241

    I do not think the "consequence" is a good translation for . It's best translated as "recompense".

    Samia,
    This how I translate 5-38...Do you think I made a mistake in my translation?

    538

    And the Thief (Male)
    and the Thief (Female)
    Cut
    Their Hands
    as an Outcome
    for what
    they earn
    as a Harsh Punishment
    from
    Allah
    and Allah
    Nobel
    Wise

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      belH
      wrote on last edited by
      #242

      Almost. I referred to the noun, not the verb

      More precisely
      "Payment given to someone because of slight problems or because of the loss of or damage to their property

      e.g I received ?500 from the local council in recompense for the damage to my garden".

      (Cambridge Advanced Learner's Dictionary)

      But you are ignoring the Fact that Can be Taking Money, instead of giving, because of a damage that is caused by the person Whom you are taking the money from...Thus, Outcome Fits better because it can be used both way (as a reward or Punishment)

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      • S Offline
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        Samia
        wrote on last edited by
        #243

        But you are ignoring the Fact that Can be Taking Money, instead of giving, because of a damage that is caused by the person Whom you are taking the money from...Thus, Outcome Fits better because it can be used both way (as a reward or Punishment)

        They are taking the brother...as a recompense for the lost cup
        "The recompense for it; whomever the cup is in his bag is the recompense for it" 1275.

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          belH
          wrote on last edited by
          #244

          They are taking the brother...as a recompense for the lost cup
          "The recompense for it; whomever the cup is in his bag is the recompense for it" 1275.

          Samia, has one meaning that can Fit in all the Quran, That is the Outcome. However, Recompense can not fit in all the verses (unless in cases when there is a reward, but will never when there is punishment)...Thus, Outcome is the Right word.

          Now, if the punishment were to take the thief, then, what are they were going to do with him?

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          • S Offline
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            Samia
            wrote on last edited by
            #245

            Samia,
            This how I translate 5-38...Do you think I made a mistake in my translation?

            538

            And the Thief (Male)
            and the Thief (Female)
            Cut
            Their Hands
            as a Recompense/Outcome (Outcome fits the meaning better)
            for what
            they earn
            as a Harsh Punishment
            from
            Allah
            and Allah
            Nobel
            Wise

            I do not see a problem with recompense here. Changing their behaviour by ending the causes of their stealing habit (cut their hands, as we say in cut their tongue make them stop telling false things) is a replacement for the stealing habit. I see it as something to replace anther.

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            • S Offline
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              Samia
              wrote on last edited by
              #246

              Samia, has one meaning that can Fit in all the Quran, That is the Outcome. However, Recompense can not fit any all the verses...Thus, Outcome is the Right word.

              Now, if the punishment were to take the thief, then, what are they were going to do with him?

              How can keeping the brother be the outcome of stealing the cup?
              It's a weird outcome, I would say ???

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                belH
                wrote on last edited by
                #247

                How can keeping the brother be the outcome of stealing the cup?
                It's a weird outcome, I would say ???

                The Outcome could be a reward, Punishment or Mutual (i.e., Salary is the outcome of working)
                Can you translate these

                29-5

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                • N Offline
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                  noble
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #248

                  Peace belH,
                  i do not like science fiction, but the guy you are talking about seems to be suffering from kleptomania which is a psychiatric
                  disorder in which the patient has an uncontrollable urge to steal, so you are right, it will be cruel to kill him/her, instead treatment
                  will be more acceptable
                  The treatment of kleptomania with serotonin reuptake inhibitors (like lexapro or effexor)... oki? and probably counseling too )

                  about the ayat on theft even without Samia advice, I still do not agree with your interpretation,
                  but I have to accept Samia translation because her Arabic is much better than mine...

                  jazaa is closer to reward / recompense,
                  for outcome in arabic one would say i guess natijah, hasilah

                  Peace Nabster,

                  Please note that to be the Judge in this community, You MUST use the Quran...It is a Precondition, otherwise, you cannot be the Judge.

                  Please, you need to quote the Verses that Supports your Judgment (i.e., Killing the thief)

                  Peace

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                  • S Offline
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                    Samia
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #249

                    theNabster explained what I wanted to, re "outcome".

                    The Outcome could be a reward, Punishment or Mutual (i.e., Salary is the outcome of working)
                    Can you translate these

                    Reward/recompense is of the same kind as what is done; but this is meaningless and too simplified
                    If I teach, the outcome is that students learn; my recompense can be money, payment.
                    If I teach, and the outcome was negative (students did not learn because they were not serious) I will still get paid as a recompense for my work.
                    So, same work, same recompense and different outcome.

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                    • B Offline
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                      belH
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #250

                      Peace belH,
                      i do not like science fiction, but the guy you are talking about seems to be suffering from kleptomania which is a psychiatric
                      disorder in which the patient has an uncontrollable urge to steal, so you are right, it will be cruel to kill him/her, instead treatment
                      will be more acceptable
                      The treatment of kleptomania with serotonin reuptake inhibitors (like lexapro or effexor)... oki? and probably counseling too )

                      Peace Nabster,

                      99% of today thieves steal because they want to get richer...Do you think a psychological treatment is the proper punishment? Do you think that is how Medoff (the one who stole 50 Billion dollar) should have been punished?

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                      • B Offline
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                        belH
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #251

                        theNabster explained what I wanted to, re "outcome".

                        Reward/recompense is of the same kind as what is done; but this is meaningless and too simplified
                        If I teach, the outcome is that students learn; my recompense can be money, payment.
                        If I teach, and the outcome was negative (students did not learn because they were not serious) I will still get paid as a recompense for my work.
                        So, same work, same recompense and different outcome.

                        In your example, there are Four (4) Outcomes, two for the student, if he pay attention or not (the outcomes are learn or not), and two for you, if you did a good Job or not (you get paid or not).

                        Can you translate these

                        29-5

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                          noble
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #252

                          Peace belH,
                          I won't be so sure, where did you pick this statistic, from the air, or from an electrical impulse in your brain?
                          besides, after the first few millions, people do not really need more money, it is indeed a disease anyway, but encouraged by
                          a crazy system...
                          you know very well who end up being punished, it is always the poor...
                          this time seems an exception, but in fact if you look deep it was not...
                          Mr Medoff as you call him did what he had to do >D

                          Peace Nabster,

                          99% of today thieves steal because they want to get richer...Do you think a psychological treatment is the proper punishment? Do you think that is how Medoff (the one who stole 50 Billion dollar) should have been punished?

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                            belH
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #253

                            Mr Medoff as you call him did what he had to do >D

                            What is the proper punishment for him if you are the judge whom uses the Quran laws?

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                              noble
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #254

                              Not applicable, speculative, he did not operate in a muslim country, there is no muslim state, and he is not a muslim...
                              the law applicable on him has been applied...

                              What is the proper punishment for him if you are the judge who uses the Quran laws?

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                              • B Offline
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                                belH
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #255

                                Not applicable, speculative, he did not operate in a muslim country, there is no muslim state, and he is not a muslim...
                                the law applicable on him has been applied...

                                Peace,
                                Well, you do not have to answer if you choose to, however, your answer will help us to reach to our Lord's truth.
                                peace

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                                • S Offline
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                                  Samia
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #256

                                  Belal, now the problem is with the meaning of "outcome"!

                                  The point is, let's focus on the verse in question.
                                  Why would they ask about the outcome of the lost cup? What does it mean?

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                                    noble
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #257

                                    Peace belH

                                    You can answer for me, I trust you will love that ;D
                                    but you have no jurisdiction on him, and neither do I...

                                    Peace,
                                    Well you do not have to answer if you choose to, however, your answer will help us to reach to our Lord's truth.
                                    peace

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                                      noble
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #258

                                      Peace Samia,
                                      don't waste your time getting any help towards proving the ayah meaning anything else but chopping hands off... chop chop chop, belH is into the maiming, mutilating chopping carving business >D and he loves it the sanguinary brute...

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                                        belH
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #259

                                        Belal, now the problem is with the meaning of "outcome"!

                                        The point is, let's focus on the verse in question.
                                        Why would they ask about the outcome of the lost cup? What does it mean?

                                        Samia, if you think the word "Outcome" is not the best word (which I might agree), then what is the best English word that can fit in the Following

                                        29-5

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                                          belH
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #260

                                          Peace Samia,
                                          don't waste your time getting any help towards proving the ayah meaning anything else but chopping hands off... chop chop chop, belH is into the maiming, mutilating chopping carving business >D and he loves it the sanguinary brute...

                                          If you were Medoff who stole the 50 billion dollar, would you rather choose to be jailed for 128 years (His actual jail time) or would you choose to get your hands cut off?

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