Taking off the Hijab
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you want just to give it a meaning >>> a prostitute who has slept with men without marriage, without legal contract between her and him .
I think all Europe Girls and usa Girls have had slept in high school with many guys, but they married another guys . and I've read a statistics that none of the girls in usa are vergin let alone girls in Europe, so I called them prostitutes.
because the term is valid for every woman had slept with man without marriage .
What you gave is not the definition of a prostitute.
Why is it only the women you are focusing on? There are men involved too? What do you make of them?
It takes two to tango.
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What you gave is not the definition of a prostitute.
Why is it only the women you are focusing on? There are men involved too? What do you make of them?
It takes two to tango.
men are just weak animals that cant control themselves, its those uncovered women that are at fault ;D
ahh a world without women would be.............full of trees and animals and no men too bravo
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prove it. How can you say non were muslim? there is a LARGE muslim population in UK so your statistics are not valid unless it takes form the population AS A WHOLE
In the statistics they said UK's women(the native), not UK's immigrants women(non-native).
Rubbish! you say you want statistics but then claim even the statistics YOU bring are false! Now you claim this doesnt include muslim women!
No, sorry they are not false >>> this is from CNN and the biggest organizations in USA and Europe statistics.
Read again. I am correcting YOUR WRONG DEFINITION. YOU are now defending muslims af ANY wrong wherever they are in the world of 'statistics' )
I must defend Muslims communities not defend non-Muslims. read about Islam as I see you know nothing about being in the side of the ennemies of Islam and you're Muslim.
you show me a site that says 16 porn stars in US have aids? ??? How about this
http//www.islamonline.net/English/News/2003-12/01/article08.shtmlhaha, this is just about Saudi Arabia and it is not even a statistics . take this
http//www.cdc.gov/nchstp/od/news/RevBrochure1pdfintro.htm
http//www.cnn.com/2000/HEALTH/12/05/health.stds.reut/
you'll be surprised, they are 65 millions , look at Saudi Arabia they are just 6787
i have to tell you that Leicester has one of the largest UK muslim populations ;D
I don't care, but of course Muslims will be away being in the spot lights.
http//www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/KB24Ak02.html
this is about Middle east >>>> let me remind you that Islam not all of it in the Middle east. ah and your urls all are not a certified statistics, just a gossip .
" How, then, should we explain an eruption of social pathologies in Iran such as drug addiction and prostitution, on a scale much worse than anything observed in the West?"
I don't care about Iran. I'm talking about you attacking Muslims women and men.
http//www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1298319/
this is not statistics, they are just talking about Islamic countries without even specifying which one of them neither gave a source about their numbers from the countries, so it is again a gossip.
http//www.spiegel.de/international/spiegel/0,1518,443678,00.html
this is not statistics, they are talking about who are forced into sex . and they are talking about a girl her name is "Amal" and talking about another girl from Egypt . where is the statistics .
need more?
hahaha, you didn't give anything, just a gossip from some websites. look at mine they are all certified from organizations of the countries theirselves and from the CNN. yours are tales .
You have put NO proof, you have answered NO questions.
Yeah right, I expect that from you . denying evrything because of your failure of giving proofs.
Also the last few quotes of MINE you have wrongly attributed to Leyna. Please engage brain before posting.
I've corrected it . so is there anything to say other than that ?
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men are just weak animals that cant control themselves, its those uncovered women that are at fault ;D
ahh a world without women would be.............full of trees and animals and no men too bravo
so by defintion your father is an animal and your husband is an animal too . that's make sense about who you are .
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If someone pretends to be a Muslim, he or she is per definition NOT a Muslim. How dare you deciding who is a Muslim and who is not?!
pretending to be a Muslim, doesn't make you not Muslim, we born Muslims all of us >> but some pretend to be Muslim (Islamic) >>>>> a woman defending the rights women from an Europian view not Islam view, is not Islmic woman . sorry I've chose the wrong word Instead of saying Islamic woman, I said Muslim woman.
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pretending to be a Muslim, doesn't make you not Muslim, we born Muslims all of us >> but some pretend to be Muslim (Islamic) >>>>> a woman defending the rights women from an Europian view not Islam view, is not Islmic woman . sorry I've chose the wrong word Instead of saying Islamic woman, I said Muslim woman.
that makes no sense, Islamic woman and Muslim woman are the same.
You now claim we are all born muslims and are STILL deciding who is or not entitled to use that title! You just dont get it do you? STOP JUDGING and STOP MAKING UP THINGS PEOPLE HAVE SAID TO YOUR OWN DESIRES. learn to READ and COMPREHEND
That is my last post to YOU on this subject. INSHA'ALLAH!
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that makes no sense, Islamic woman and Muslim woman are the same.
You now claim we are all born muslims and are STILL deciding who is or not entitled to use that title! You just dont get it do you? STOP JUDGING and STOP MAKING UP THINGS PEOPLE HAVE SAID TO YOUR OWN DESIRES. learn to READ and COMPREHEND
That is my last post to YOU on this subject. INSHA'ALLAH!You didn't reply my posts to you where I abolished all websites you have brought. Gossip things.
and about Muslim and Islamic >>>> are two different meanings . Muslims which could be a Muslim but he does nothing Islamic ..an Islamic is who obeys and he works using Quran and sunnah in his life.
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pretending to be a Muslim, doesn't make you not Muslim
Nonsense. You can only pretend to be something that you are not.
a woman defending the rights women from an Europian view not Islam view
I have no clue what you are talking about here. But I see no contradiction between what you call "European" and what you call "Islamic" viewpoint.
If you want to disrespect women, order them around and treat them like property, go ahead. But don't claim it's in any way "Islamic".
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Maybe this is interesting for some in regards to the original subject. peace
Portrait Emel Abidin-Algan
Faith without the Headscarf
http//www.qantara.de/files/549/58/453e3155c6f7c_Emel_Abidin-Algan.jpg
Her decision caused quite a stir ? in Germany as well as in Turkey. Emel Abidin-Algan, daughter of the founder of the Islamic association Milli G?r?s, has put aside her headscarf after wearing it for over thirty years. The 45-year-old mother of six children spoke with Ariana Mirza about her motives.
"It is absurd to infer about someone's beliefs on the basis of outward appearances!" said Emel Abidin-Algan, expressing her views in a ready to print form. She has experience in articulating her positions. A few years ago, the former chairwoman of an Islamic women's association took part in Germany's headscarf debate ? and offered some rather unconventional suggestions.
First, Emel Abidin-Algan and a group of Berlin women designers created fashionable hats as an alternative to the controversial headscarf. Then, in early 2005, she took off her own headscarf for good.
Since then, there have been many changes in the life of the mother of six. She dances with an Irish folklore group, practices martial arts in a mixed Aikido team, and goes to night school. Emel Abidin-Algan continues to take care of her three youngest children, who still live at home, together with her husband, although they have decided to separate. Her conservative husband refuses to accept his wife's new attitudes.
Assuming more responsibility
Only after immersing herself in the study of the Koran and its revelations, she came to a new way of seeing things, said the 45-year-old. Since then, Abidin-Algan has become a proponent of an individual's right to form their own opinion ? and not only with respect to one's choice of head covering. She would like to encourage others to investigate the Koran and the historical context of its revelatory message.
Abidin-Algan is also calling on Muslim women to assume more responsibility. That doesn't mean, however, that "all those who wear headscarves must now take them off." Rather, women should be free to choose the type of covering they wear according to their own individual, natural modesty. "Personally, I only go swimming with leggings under my swimsuit. Those are the limits to my personal sense of modesty."
As it turns out, Emel Abidin-Algan is not a feminist. Her primary concern is to call into question the validity of scholarly Koran interpretation for modern times. "A legalistic Islam now holds sway, and not the Islam of the Prophet," she claims argumentatively.
In order to support her claims, the headstrong Muslim brought along an abundance of material. The remarkably youthful looking woman busily leafs through her documents. She suddenly pulls out one of the manuscripts in which she presents her position in-depth. "Here, this is particularly important to me!" she says, energetically pounding her index finger on the page.
Opposing the dogma of the "punishing God"
The issue of body and face covering is just one of many topics that occupies her. She opposes the widely held dogma of the "punishing God" and thinks that such an image can cause great harm in the upbringing of children.
According to Abidin-Algan, the greatest and fundamental mistake is to theologize belief and to convey it through a hierarchical structure. "We need fewer religious people and many more believers," is her personal conviction. Raised in Germany by an Iraqi father and Turkish mother, she considers herself cosmopolitan. She regards many superficial religious rules as stemming from regional customs.
How has the Muslim milieu reacted to Abidin-Algan's views? It is a delicate subject, as her name is closely linked with Milli G?r?s, an association that is under surveillance by the German security services. It was Emel's late father, the doctor Yusuf Zeynel Abidin, who founded the German section of this controversial organization in the mid-1970s.
"My father would have understood my intentions," says the daughter assuredly. To date, however, the Muslim association has tended either to ignore or to be taken aback by her behavior. Abidin-Algan, who is currently completing evening courses to become a public relations consultant, would have preferred constructive discussion.
The peacemaking wisdom of Islam
She hopes that in the future, more young Muslim women who are brought up in the West will engage in an open dialogue with the majority population. She feels that any kind of isolation, whether external or internal, is harmful.
"These young people can use their education and multicultural backgrounds to discover the peacemaking wisdom of Islam, instead of simply emulating tradition without reflection." In the end, the Muslims in a non-Islamic society "should be living examples of the faith," and thereby spread a positive image of Islam.
Yet, what are the responsibilities of non-Muslims? Does Abidin-Algan place no demand upon the majority German society? "Of course," comes the prompt answer. Germans should show more interest in finding out about Islam. "Even those in government circles hardly have any basic knowledge about the religion."
In addition, for many Germans the issue of terrorism has strengthened an anti-Islamic stance, which prevents them from approaching Islam with an open mind. There is a great deal wrong with Western society, sums up Abidin-Algan. She describes apathy and frustration as direct consequences of consumerism. It is high time for people to devote themselves to immaterial values. "Like faith and love, for instance," she says smiling.
Ariana Mirza
? Qantara.de 2006 -
But Wakas, I can give you a website condoning the dress code
http//www.islamswomen.com/hijab/hijab_suppression_or_liberation.php
Peace
It is irrelevant if a website condones or disproves. If we are to have an evidence based discussion, then the Quran and what can be solidly deduced is what matters. I strongly recommend reading the article I linked to, as it refutes the above article rather easily.
http//www.misconceptions-about-islam.com/dress-code-women-veil.htmYour link simply repeats the same old nonsense. In fact, we can even look to history and see there was NEVER an obligation for women to cover their whole body or head etc in Arab countries. There was a mix. See the following book for example
http//www.amazon.com/Arab-Dress-Short-History-Islamic/dp/9004113738I am currently reading Muhammad Asad's autobiography, he also mentions it in his travels in the region.
Everyone knows it, yet it is funny how only recently it has apparently come to be politicised and taken as an obligation. That is one of the reasons there are variances amongst schools of thought, on other than the basics. It is utter nonsense. Personally, I dont have a problem with anyone wearing veils etc but I object if they say this is in Quran etc. My reply "prove it".
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Everyone knows it, yet it is funny how only recently it has apparently come to be politicised and taken as an obligation. That is one of the reasons there are variances amongst schools of thought, on other than the basics. It is utter nonsense. Personally, I dont have a problem with anyone wearing veils etc but I object if they say this is in Quran etc. My reply "prove it".
And that's the underlying theme here ... like so many others here have said 'where the heck does it say to cover your head/hair in the Qur'an'?! There's also the issue of why a Muslim slave woman's awrah is not the same as a free woman's.
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I think all Europe Girls and usa Girls have had slept in high school with many guys, but they married another guys . and I've read a statistics that none of the girls in usa are vergin let alone girls in Europe, so I called them prostitutes.
because the term is valid for every woman had slept with man without marriage .
What?!!!!!! I know personally I never "slept" with any guy in high school and I had many friends who never did much less had a real "boyfriend" in high school. So that statistic is incorrect ... there is no way "all European girls and USA girls have slept with many guys in high school".
And I wasn't Muslim then, I was Christian. -
There's also the issue of why a Muslim slave woman's awrah is not the same as a free woman's.
I agree. It is very interesting that early scholars had different views on the subject and some even said a slave woman can pray bare-breasted. But you rarely hear about that; instead you are always being told that there has always been a "scholarly consensus" on the issue, which is clearly a lie.
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you want just to give it a meaning >>> a prostitute who has slept with men without marriage, without legal contract between her and him .
I think all Europe Girls and usa Girls have had slept in high school with many guys, but they married another guys . and I've read a statistics that none of the girls in usa are vergin let alone girls in Europe, so I called them prostitutes.
because the term is valid for every woman had slept with man without marriage .
I would be interested to know what you think of women who HAVE actually been prostitutes, I mean the real meaning as in paid for sex, but have later converted to Islam? Your sweeping generalizations are still judging them as prostitutes. Does your 'god' you follow have no mercy?
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men are just weak animals that cant control themselves, its those uncovered women that are at fault ;D
ahh a world without women would be.............full of trees and animals and no men too bravoPeace,
Respectfully.I must disagree.
Most men might be as you put it, but not all men.
Some men can control themselves and walk by fully naked women and feel nothing of a sexual nature.
Also, i would not like a world without women, i lived in London for a while and when i was hanging with sunnis, we were always without women and it was boring. Women are nice, of course, my soulmate is more beautiful then let's say Rihanna but then again who am i to talk? ;DPeace.
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I must disagree.
Most men might be as you put it, but not all men.
Some men can control themselves and walk by fully naked women and feel nothing of a sexual nature.
Also, i would not like a world without women, i lived in London for a while and when i was hanging with sunnis, we were always without women and it was boring. Women are nice, of course, my soulmate is more beautiful then let's say Rihanna but then again who am i to talk? ;DAlen, I believe Ayisha's post was tongue-in-cheek. She was referring to the argument that women MUST wear hijab because men are just not able to behave if they see a woman who is not completely covered.
As you rightly noticed, this is a very derogatory view of men. Personally, I fully agree that most men are not as described above. Men are not animals, flies, wolves, lions, slaves to their instincts, as we so often hear.
Despite the fact that I've complained about street harassment on this thread, my overall experience with men is not like that. I have always mingled with men, I have close male friends, and I have never had any negative experiences. But that is exactly why I believe harassment is not an issue of how women dress, but how men are brought up, how they perceive women etc. And that's why it bothers me when people who have never lived in an environment where interaction with women is normal and nobody obsesses about how they dress, insist that the women are being responsible for bad male behaviour.
peace
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Peace,
Respectfully.I must disagree.
Most men might be as you put it, but not all men.
Some men can control themselves and walk by fully naked women and feel nothing of a sexual nature.
Also, i would not like a world without women, i lived in London for a while and when i was hanging with sunnis, we were always without women and it was boring. Women are nice, of course, my soulmate is more beautiful then let's say Rihanna but then again who am i to talk? ;DPeace.
peace Alen it was sarcasm, no way do I mean men are like that, certainly my husband is not anything like an animal, neither was my dad nor my son and many many men I know.
It is based on what the traditionalists would have us think when saying why a woman should cover everything but one eye to see with and stay in the home so as not to cause fitna.
It may take time but you will get used to my sense of humour eventually angel
