Taking off the Hijab
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Wrong! Allah does not tell me to lower my gaze.
so its not from Allah that you should lower your gaze? of course it is!Allah tells you women to tell us men to lower our gaze, allah teaches you how to empower yourself, how to speak up!
No the verse is not Allah speaking specifically to women, it is Allah talking to ALL believers, so we should be reminding each other what He said.
If you don't obey allah then you will for ever be timid and not be able to yelp when a man comes groping and perving over you.
And the following verse is about women lowering their gaze too, does that mean men have to tell us to do that or women have to tell us OR does is mean that Allah is telling ALL OF US?
It's not my problem that I perve over a woman, I enjoy it. And things that a nice, are a taste of heaven.
It is your problem. Stop trying to make it a womans fault that you're a pervert voodoo
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Are you crazy?
the speech literally is for the wives of the prophet but goes for all women because God created women not just wives of prophets .
Are YOU crazy? This is SPECIFICALLY for the wives of the prophet and thats why is says Wives and consorts of the prophet!! Stop adding to Gods Words!when a speech from God to prophet or to his wives is valid for all . if we use your logic, we will not obey the prophet because Quran was recited to him alone. what a joke .
Quran was recited TO Muhammed FOR HIM TO RECITE TO THE PEOPLE. This verse is specific to his wives. By your logic you should also be staying in the home!
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so its not from Allah that you should lower your gaze? of course it is!
No the verse is not Allah speaking specifically to women, it is Allah talking to ALL believers, so we should be reminding each other what He said.And the following verse is about women lowering their gaze too, does that mean men have to tell us to do that or women have to tell us OR does is mean that Allah is telling ALL OF US?
It is your problem. Stop trying to make it a womans fault that you're a pervert voodooSo you're going to ask me to lower my gaze in front of my potential wife?
The following verse is about someone else telling the believing women to lower their gaze, and hide their prettyness. Anyone who notices the glaring should make it clear. But if a woman says it, the men would listen. Men listen to strong commanding females, especially when they're giving the quran as a message in a proper way.
Why do you find it wrong that I am perverted for women and am so as according to the quran.
The god made us like this. If you don't want glaring and stuff towards you, you'd this time, cover your face, and make sure not even the tinyest hint of you being a woman is shown. When men rather than find you attractive, shit their pants... then you've helped the men to not be perverted at you.
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I really don't know why you're promoting this it is an onslaught on Sunnism.
Indeed. In fact, the booklet this quote is taken from propagates a Qur'an-only approach.
Some excerpts
Gods revelations had to come down in some language and there is no doubt that it is the message and not the messenger nor the language of the messenger, which is of supreme importance. But those who refuse to believe will regard the language as an encumbrance in accepting God's message. The Quran teaches that the language of Gods Scripture immaterial and that God will put His message into the hearts of sincere believers irrespective of their mother tongue. The Quran says those who disbelieve are bickering about the language not the message. The Quran gives a good example about the people of the past who had disputed about the language of the Torah. There were instances of those who claimed to be following the teachings of Moses but divided themselves into many sects in their religion. They differed in the interpretations and understanding of the Torah. Similar disputes are, not surprisingly, raging within the Arab religion. The Quran predicts that people would have questioned Gods revelation no matter in what language He chose to reveal it
Had we made it a non-Arabic reading they would have said, Why are the verses not explained? Shall we reveal a non-Arabic quran10 to an Arab? Say, For those who believe it is a beacon and a guide. As for those who do not believe they will be deaf and blind to it, as if they are being called from afar. We also gave Moses the Scripture and it, too, was disputed. If it were not for a predetermined decision by your Lord, they would have been judged immediately. They are in great doubt thereof. (4144-45)
If presented in Arabic to the non-Arabs they could not accept it when recited to them. This is the way We render it to the hearts of the wicked. Consequently, they fail to believe until the painful retributions strikes them. (26198-201)
Despite the fact that the Quran was revealed in Arabic, God has not preferred the Arabs over other races. He made it clear by resolutely condemning Arabs in the Arabic Scripture in the strong terms where He says they are the staunchest in disbelief and hypocrisy.
The Arabs were pagans
The Arabs were ignorant of Gods Scripture and they knew nothing about an orderly way of life or the deen adhered to by Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob and the other prophets, and nothing about what was revealed to Moses and Jesus. Therefore they had no idea of Gods prescribed way of life (Deen-nil-lah) encompassing His decrees (sharial-lah), His limits (hududul-lah), the existence of a harmonious system sanctioned by Him (aminal-baytal-Harami), His prescribed submission (masa-jidil-lah), His sanctioned submission (masjidil-Harami) and the concept of in the path of God (fi-sabi-lil-lah) which had been known to Abraham, Moses, Jesus and the previous messengers.
God says the Arab race was ummyin79 referring to them as gentiles, a race who had no prior knowledge of Gods Scriptures. 622 says
huwal-lazi baasha He is the One who sent
fil-ummyin in the midst of the gentiles
rosulan min-hum a messenger from them
yatlu alaihem to recite upon them
wa-yuzak-kihem and to purify them
wa-yualimuhumul and the knowledge of
kitaba the Scripture
wal-Hikmata and the wisdom
wa-ainkanu indeed, they were
min-qoblu from before
lafi-thola-lin mubin in total loss.Indeed, before Muhammad was sent to the Arabs, they were in total loss about the orderly way of life or the deen. Sadly, but not unexpectedly, they continue to be.
Obviously as pagans they refused to serve God alone. From day one - they rejected the messenger and the revelations. Muslim scholars boast about this man portraying him as the most popular figure among the Arabs but nothing about his disappointment and frustration. Let us read the untold stories about this man from the Quran.
...
Now, this is where we see Muslim scholars and the mullahs refused to believe what the Qur'an says. They insist the messenger gave them something else apart of the Quran. They call this something else as the Hadiths of the prophet. In other words, they say the Qur'an is wrong.
...The great challenge
The practising Sunnis and Shiite reading this who have thus far believed there is a holy mosque, holy house, holy land, holy water, holy black stone, holy grave and holy footprints should make a choice.
They can either-
Continue to devote and humble themselves to a stone shrine or a stone house which are entities related to idol-worship (and they should remember that whatever they conceal in their hearts does not escape God).
Or -
Stop worshipping the stone idol in Mecca and serve the One God by devoting and humbling themselves in submission through Gods system (bait) based on the teachings of the Quran alone, free from religious intention and invention.
Which would you rather answer for on the Last Day?
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To readers of translations
For those many who have rejected the Hadith books written by men, this book represents another step in their journey on the path of God.
But the Devil says I am waiting for them on your Straight Path and I will mislead all of the without exception.80 It would be inefficient of him to waste his time waiting for people who are already on the wrong path.
If such people are gratified with what they understand from the translations without any careful study or verification, they are likely to be frozen along with the translators personal understanding and beliefs which as a rule are taken wholesale from the very Hadith books the reader has rejected.
ARAB CONSPIRACIES AGAINST ISLAM, Aidid Safar, pps. 6, 194, 198
http//www.aididsafar.com -
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The text was written by a man.
I know... I've heard of it before. Where this one guy was staring at a woman for so long, and his friend came and asked him why he was looking at that woman, and I'm sure you know the rest of that. The starer replied. "I haven't finished my one look" or something like that.
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I really don't know why you're promoting this it is an onslaught on Sunnism.
oh I'm really sorry, I didn't read the whole book, oh my bad . sorry sorry. I can't forgive myself
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how can Quran only approach give us 'hadith science' ???
Misconception Religion and science/reason/knowledge are not compatible
Background It is commonly thought that religion in general, including Islam, is simply not compatible with science/reason/knowledge.
The Quran repeatedly emphasises the importance of seeking knowledge, verifying information, use of logic/reason, evidence, consultation, reflection/thinking, study of biology/creation/archaeology/history/sciences. Some of the many examples are shown below.
The Quran clearly states signs of the truth it promotes exist in the whole universe, thus surely all of it is worthy of study
We will show them Our signs in the horizons and within themselves, until it becomes clear to them that this is the truth. Is it not sufficient as regards your Lord that He is a witness over all things?
Say Travel in the earth and see how He originated the creation, then God creates the latter creation; surely God has power over all things.
Many ways of life have passed away before your time. Go, then, about the earth and behold what happened in the end to those who gave the lie to the truth.
In the creation of heavens and Earth, and the alternation between night and day, are signs for those with understanding.
Those who remember God while standing, and sitting, and on their sides, and they ponder over the creation of the heavens and the Earth ?Our Lord you did not create this without purpose...?Promotes logical thinking and reasoning
And it is such that We showed Abraham the kingdom of heavens and Earth, so that he will be of those who have certainty. When the night covered him, he saw a planet, and he said "This is my Lord." But when it disappeared he said "I do not like those that disappear." So when he saw the moon rising, he said "This is my Lord." But when it disappeared he said "If my Lord will not guide me, then I will be amongst the misguided!" So when he saw the sun rising, he said "This is my Lord, this is biggest." But when it disappeared he said "My people, I am innocent of all that you associate with God."
?And by God , I will scheme against your statues after you have gone away and given your backs.?
So he broke them into pieces except for the biggest of them, so that they may turn to him.
They said ?Who has done this to our gods? He is surely one of the wicked.?
They said ?We heard a young man mentioning them. He was called Abraham.?
They said ?Bring him before the eyes of the people so that they may be witness.?
They said ?Did you do this to our gods Abraham??
He said ?It was the biggest one of them here who did it, so ask them, if they do speak!?
So they turned and said to themselves ?It is indeed ourselves who have been wicked!?
Then they reverted to their old ideas ?You know that they do not speak!?
He said ?Do you serve besides God that which does not benefit you at all nor harm you??
?I am fed-up of you and to what you serve besides God! Do you not comprehend??He cites an example for Us, while forgetting his own creation! He says "Who can resurrect the bones while they are dust?"
Say, "The One who made them in the first place will resurrect them. He is fully aware of every creation."If there were gods in them (heaven and earth) except for God, then they would have been ruined...
God has not taken a son, nor is there with Him any god. If it were so, then every god would have taken what He created and they would have tried to overtake each other. God be glorified against what they describe!
Did the news come to you of the person who debated with Abraham regarding his Lord, while God had given him a kingship? Abraham said ?My Lord is the One who gives life and death,? he said ?I bring life and death.? Abraham said ?God brings the sun from the east, so you bring it from the west.? The one who disbelieved was confounded! And God does not guide the wicked people.
In the story of Joseph, he was accused of molesting a female when it was really the other way around, and it was proven with evidence by way of reasoning
He said ?She is the one who seduced me from myself,? and a witness from her family gave testimony ?If his shirt was torn from the front, then she is truthful, and he is the liar.?
?And if his shirt is torn from behind (i.e. as he tried to get away from her), then she is lying, and he is truthful.?As is quite common in The Quran, it also gives us examples in this life to reflect upon
...You sometimes see the earth dry and barren, but no sooner do We send down rain upon it than it begins to stir and swell, putting forth every kind of radiant bloom.
That is because God is the truth, and He gives life to the dead, and He is capable of all things.And Abraham said ""My Lord, show me how you resurrect the dead." He said, "Do you not already acknowledge?" He said, "I do, but to assure my heart. Said He "Take, then, four birds and teach them to obey thee; then place them separately on every hill ; then summon them they will come flying to thee. And know that God is Almighty, Wise.
Rejects following of tradition/culture/ancestors blindly
And if they commit evil acts, they say ?We found our fathers doing such, and God ordered us to it.? Say ?God does not order evil! Do you say about God what you do not know??
If they are told, "Follow what God has sent down," they say, "No, we will follow what we found our fathers doing!" What if their fathers did not reason much and were not guided? The example of those who are unappreciative is like the one who repeats what he has heard of calls and shouts; deaf, dumb, and blind; they do not reason.
And do not follow what you have no knowledge of; surely the hearing, the sight and the heart, all of these, shall be questioned about that.
Recommends group consultation
Those who listen to what is said, then follow the best of it; those are the ones God has guided, and are the men of understanding.
...and consult with them upon the conduct of affairs...
O you who believe! when it is said to you, Make room in (your) assemblies, then make ample room, God will give you ample, and when it is said Rise up, then rise up. God will exalt those of you who believe, and those who are given knowledge, in high degrees; and God is Aware of what you do.
And those who have responded to their Lord, and they establish the bond, and their affairs are conducted by mutual consultation among themselves, and from Our provisions to them they give.
Promotes thinking/reflection/reasoning
Surely, the worst creatures in the sight of God are the deaf and dumb who do not reason.
And they said ?If we had listened or understood, we would not be among the dwellers of the blazing Fire!?
...Relate the stories, perhaps they will think.
...It is such that We clarify the revelations to a people who think.
With proofs and scriptures. And We sent down to you the Reminder to reveal to the people what was sent to them, and perhaps they will think.
Do they not reflect upon themselves? God did not create the heavens and the Earth and what is between them except by truth and an appointed term. But most of the people are in denial regarding their meeting with their Lord.
And He committed in your service all that is in the heavens and in the Earth; all from Him. In that are signs for a people who reflect.
...Say ?Are those who know equal to those who do not know?? Only those who possess understanding will remember.
?He has misled mountain loads of you could you not, then, use your reason??
"Do you not then reflect?"
Strongly disapproves of conjecture/guesswork, and promotes examination of evidence
You who believe! If a troublemaker comes to you with a report, verify it, lest you harm a people in ignorance, then be sorry for what you have done.
They said, "There is nothing but this worldly life; we die and we live and nothing destroys us except the passing of time!" They have no knowledge about this; they only conjecture/guess.
If you obey the majority of people on earth, they will divert you from the path of God. They follow only conjecture; they only guess.
...And conjecture/guesswork is no substitute for the truth.
...Say Bring your proof if you are truthful.
Or have they taken gods besides Him? Say ?Bring your proof. This is a reminder of those with me and a reminder of those before me.? But, most of them do not know the truth, so they turn away.
Esteems knowledge, education and learning
And do not follow what you have no knowledge of; surely the hearing, the sight and the heart, all of these, shall be questioned about that.
And say "My Lord increase me in knowledge."
"Will they not ponder over the Quran?"
And it is not advisable for the believers to mobilize in their entirety. For every battalion that marches out, let a group remain to study the system, and warn their people when they return to them, perhaps they will be aware.
And from the people, and the animals, and the livestock, are various colours. As such, only the knowledgeable among God?s servants reverence Him. God is Noble, Forgiving.
But those of them who are firm in knowledge, as well as the believers, they believe in what was sent down to you and what was sent down before you...
Those who are blessed with knowledge will recognize the truth from your Lord, then believe in it, and their hearts will readily accept it. Most assuredly, GOD guides the believers in the right path.
In fact, it is a clear revelation in the chests of those who have been given knowledge...
...?Be devotees for what you have been taught of the Scripture, and for what you studied.?
In the early period of Islam and The Quran, it is well documented in history that Muslims were the leaders in science/mathematics/agriculture/astronomy/medicine, thus there is a proven example from history that science and Islam were able to work together in a productive manner. It is only recently this can be said to have changed.
Maybe there is something more trust worthy than this, but I'll leave you to read through this site http//www.al-islam.org/al-tawhid/hadith-science/ - - click on part two.
What developed from there on by the muslims was the desire to seek truth rather than before that it was the desire to guess. http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_method#Introduction_to_scientific_method
http//muttaqun.com/scienceofhadith.html
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Sorry but there is no "science" in hadeeth. Science itself pertains to that which is concretely verifiable. So for instance, a tablet can be carbon dated to prove its age and its words can then be taken to be words of that age, or you can measure the length of something, that is science. However there is no such equivalent in "hadeeth". If anything they can be considered "history" but a more fitting term is "bullshit". In essence, you could show "science of hadeeth" to any scientist and they will laugh in your face, because there is not an iota of science in the classification of hearsay.
010.036 But most of them follow nothing but conjecture truly conjecture can be of no avail against truth. Verily Allah is well aware of all that they do.
In reality, "hadeeth science" is a technique developed by distorters of the path of the Almighty to falsify credence for their own utterances. It is then given the name "science" and naive people fail to distinguish between it and real science.
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To veil or not to veil that is the question.
AS WE ALL KNOW, veiled women are a dowdy, dumpy bunch. They are women with no thoughts or opinions of their own, women who cant so much as shut the bedroom window if theyre getting a draft without first consulting a man and asking his permission. Maybe, back when they were three or four years old, they dreamed of grander things from life, but now that they are adults theyve been forced to wear the shroud, walk three feet behind their husbands, and stifle whatever hopes and feelings they used to call their own under the guise of being hapless helpmates to domineering men.
Right?
Then again, we ALSO know that unveiled women are wanton sluts, women who require nothing more than hearing a man call hey, baby on a street corner and suddenly theyre in the backseat of his car, throwing their legs in the air while shrieking whee, I love Satan!
At least thats what weve been told. I heard it on television and read it on the internet, so it must be true.
Or wait, did I get it wrong? Perhaps it goes like this
Bare-headed women are liberated and free, sure of themselves, comfortable with their sexuality, a page straight out of Cosmo. They are women whose lives are filled with meaning and purpose; above all, they are modern unlike backwards veiled women, who wouldnt recognize their own oppression if it hit them on the head with a slipper.
Or no, wait, what I meant to say was that veiled women are the true feminists, women who are secure enough in their sexuality that they dont need to engage in some base attempt to advertise it unlike their sell-out sisters, who are so desperate for attention that they will abandon every iota of self-respect in a sad attempt to grovel for male approval. (Tee-hee-hee, have you seen my belly ring?”
Right?
Well. Maybe not. To all of the above.
A Saudi friend of mine once said that the only thing more clich? than talking about the veil is apologizing for talking about the veil. Shes right; the subjects boring, long-exhausted. Yet, for Muslim women, its one subject that wont go away. Heres an insider tip for my male Muslim friends, even the so-called progressive ones who say they dont care whether women veil or not the difference between you and me is that youve never had to make this decision. And as much as we love you plural for claiming that you dont care what conclusion we come to, the fact is you will never have to be in this position. And that, right there, makes your experience of Islam different from ours.
This is especially true in the United States. Which might seem odd, because we have no laws about veiling here, but thats part of the reason the issue is so contentious.
In Iran, because veiling is mandated by law, a woman must be especially progressive to wear it in a lax and casual manner (in public) or forgo it altogether (in private). Veiling is the norm, so shes well aware of the statement shes making when she rejects it.
On the flip side, in France or Turkey where there are laws against veiling inside various public institutions a woman is, presumably, especially religious if she decides to take it up. Since not-veiling is the default, for Muslim and non-Muslim women alike, going against the grain of public opinion requires a commitment to Islam that most observers would understand to be something over and above the mere coincidence of being born into a Muslim family.
In the United States, however, it is precisely the freedom of choice I so cherish that makes this such a complicated decision for the Muslim women who live here. The cultural norm the average American woman is unveiled, but the predominant image of a Muslim woman, even among non-Muslims, is that of a muhajabah. Therefore a muslimah who decides not to veil is seen as transgressing against her community and will have her commitment to Islam doubted, while the woman who does decide to veil is seen as rejecting everything about American life save for her religious practice. We cant win; there is no middle ground. Being 51% one way or the other is seen as a complete rejection of the other side.
In case you werent listening the first time around, let me be clear I wouldnt have it any other way. Im opposed to both the French ban on veiling and the Saudi mandate for it, and listening to the Dutch whine about the loss of their Pure Dutch Culture in the face of all these gasp immigrants is one of the few times Im proud to be American, where multiculturalism is an established fact, however imperfectly its practiced.
But I also remember living in a country where the signifiers werent so strong. Im told its different in Egypt now that somewhere between 80 and 90 percent of Cairene women now veil but when I was living there, in the early 1990s, it was closer to 50/50. I loved that. I loved, especially, that there was no great social divide between veiled and unveiled women; youd see differences of opinion even within a single family. One of my sisters-in-law veiled, one did not, the third took it up for a few years and then changed her mind and took it off. None of this was a matter of any great controversy. It didnt even merit much discussion.
This is not to downplay the choices Egyptian women had to make. One friend of mine at the university said her father never forced her to veil, but it was only after she decided to take it up that he allowed her study late at the library, walk home unattended, and otherwise participate in public space in ways he wouldnt have permitted without her willingness to adopt the hijab and, accordingly, serve as walking symbolism for everything the hijab represented in the popular imagination. On the other side of that spectrum, there was another girl I knew, also Egyptian, who said she wanted to veil but worried it would interfere with her career as a journalist. She wanted to be a foreign correspondent, and she was afraid people would read so much into her scarf that they wouldnt get around to reading her words.
Can the choice to veil or not veil in such a context truly be considered free? I dont know. Then again, I know plenty of American women who will tell you no one forced them to diet, but they believed that being thin facilitated their right to speak with authority in a manner theyd have lost if they had to confront the bias against fat women in a country where being heavy is equated with a loss of self-control and a where a loss of self-control is considered shameful, if not downright sinful. My point here is not to excuse the former because of the existence of the latter only to argue that there is nothing uniquely Islamic about a woman negotiating with the patriarchy, nothing specifically Muslim about a woman who trades in Her Personal Ideal in favor of getting what privileges she can with a minimal amount of compromise. We ladies, the world over and religion notwithstanding, have been doing that for thousands of years.
I wonder, though, if our notions of Islamic dress had evolved in such a way that the turban (for example) was considered as mandatory for men as the hijab is for women in some circles, would Muslim men in the West expound on the subject with the same confident manner they do now, one that is as flippant as it is self-assured? Im sure 10% of men would wear it everywhere without a second thought, and another 10% would scoff at the mere idea of it. But for the majority, those in the middle, it would (I would hope) elicit a little more reflection. Do you risk community censure for being one of those non-turban guys, knowing that before you even open your mouth your bare head will be considered, by some, proof that you eat pork, drink alcohol, never pray, love capitalism, support colonialism and the war in Iraq, neglect your children, and cheat on your wife? Or do you take it up, knowing that, in different spheres, it will brand you as ignorant, ascetic, oppressed, and/or radical? Be careful! Remember, you dont get to choose how you want to be seen at this event, or with that crowd of people the choice you make has to be applicable for all times and circumstances. No fair picking one option for a family reunion or protest march, and another for your first nervous job interview at Chase Manhattan.
For a while, in Cairo, I lived across the street from a girls high school and would watch these young scholars stream out of class after the final bell. There would be the same roar of high-pitched laughter I recognize in teenage girls anywhere, in any country, as they coagulated in groups in the garden, or at the front gate veiled girls interlinking their arms with girls who wore their hair uncovered, occasionally leaning over to whisper some secret that necessitated pushing back a girlfriends headscarf or ponytail, depending, in order to have access to her ear. The intimacy of girls that age is always charming to me, but it seems even more endearing in retrospect, knowing that they were doing something that, in so many parts of the world, would be considered a radical act ignoring the politics of the veiled/unveiled split in favor of interacting with the human being inside.
kufigirl
http//hijabman.com/journal/kg-to-veil-or-not-to-veil-that-is-the-question
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Maybe there is something more trust worthy than this, but I'll leave you to read through this site http//www.al-islam.org/al-tawhid/hadith-science/ - - click on part two.
What developed from there on by the muslims was the desire to seek truth rather than before that it was the desire to guess. http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_method#Introduction_to_scientific_method
http//muttaqun.com/scienceofhadith.html
I am fully aware of the so called 'science' of hadith and in seeking the 'truth' this is a complete diversion from 'the path' and in total contrast to everything you quoted from Quran. I have to agree with OPF on this one.
There is no question that science, real science, is not compatible with religion, of course it is compatible if one is to believe the word of God.
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Are you crazy?
the speech literally is for the wives of the prophet but goes for all women because God created women not just wives of prophets .
when a speech from God to prophet or to his wives is valid for all . if we use your logic, we will not obey the prophet because Quran was recited to him alone. what a joke .
Mufti sir would you stop giving fatwas?
Read this with open eyes,3332 O Consorts of the Prophet! Ye are not like any of the (other) women if ye do fear (Allah), be not too complacent of speech, lest one in whose heart is a disease should be moved with desire but speak ye a speech (that is) just.
Ya nisaa alnnabiyyilastunna kaahadin mina alnnisa-i iniittaqaytunna fala takhdaAAna bialqawli fayatmaAAaallathee fee qalbihi maradun waqulna qawlanmaAAroofan3333 And stay quietly in your houses, and make not a dazzling display, like that of the former Times of Ignorance; and establish regular Prayer, and give regular Charity; and obey Allah and His Apostle. And Allah only wishes to remove all abomination from you, ye members of the Family, and to make you pure and spotless.
Waqarna fee buyootikunna walatabarrajna tabarruja aljahiliyyati al-oola waaqimnaalssalata waateena alzzakatawaatiAAna Allaha warasoolahu innama yureeduAllahu liyuthhiba AAankumu alrrijsa ahlaalbayti wayutahhirakum tatheeran -
Sorry but there is no "science" in hadeeth. Science itself pertains to that which is concretely verifiable. So for instance, a tablet can be carbon dated to prove its age and its words can then be taken to be words of that age, or you can measure the length of something, that is science. However there is no such equivalent in "hadeeth". If anything they can be considered "history" but a more fitting term is "bullshit". In essence, you could show "science of hadeeth" to any scientist and they will laugh in your face, because there is not an iota of science in the classification of hearsay.
In reality, "hadeeth science" is a technique developed by distorters of the path of the Almighty to falsify credence for their own utterances. It is then given the name "science" and naive people fail to distinguish between it and real science.
whatever
To veil or not to veil that is the question.
But I also remember living in a country where the signifiers weren?t so strong. I?m told it?s different in Egypt now ? that somewhere between 80 and 90 percent of Cairene women now veil ? but when I was living there, in the early 1990s, it was closer to 50/50. I loved that. I loved, especially, that there was no great social divide between veiled and unveiled women; you?d see differences of opinion even within a single family. One of my sisters-in-law veiled, one did not, the third took it up for a few years and then changed her mind and took it off. None of this was a matter of any great controversy. It didn?t even merit much discussion.
All I can say to that is... it's a good thing the women in Egypt have started to see themselves as being more beautiful, and respect men's minds. Rather than follow western trends for the sake of consumerism. At least today they're trying to give a damn about the god's thoughts. But I wonder if they know exactly why one should do hijab or veil or the purpose behind it according to the quran. It seems that most people are just following the crowd rather than pleasing the god.
I am fully aware of the so called 'science' of hadith and in seeking the 'truth' this is a complete diversion from 'the path' and in total contrast to everything you quoted from Quran. I have to agree with OPF on this one.
There is no question that science, real science, is not compatible with religion, of course it is compatible if one is to believe the word of God.
Then please explain how the early muslims managed to develop a scientific method. Especially when the first problems would have been false reports about the prophet from certain people.
How on earth can you say that real science is not compatible with religion? Religion created real science!
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I am fully aware of the so called 'science' of hadith and in seeking the 'truth' this is a complete diversion from 'the path' and in total contrast to everything you quoted from Quran. I have to agree with OPF on this one.
Then please explain how the early muslims managed to develop a scientific method. Especially when the first problems would have been false reports about the prophet from certain people.
A scientific method for what? clasifying hadith? ;D
The early muslims didnt have or clasify hadith, they followed Quran. Bukhari wasnt born untill 200 years after the prophet died so his collection didnt come into effect until well after that, then he had to 'classify' it all so theres another few years, so these muslims are earlier than us but not 'the early muslims'
Also what 'science' classifies all these as Sahih/sound/authentic hadith
Bukhari Vol.4, Book 055, Hadith # 635.Narated By Abu Huraira The Prophet said, "Solomon (the son of) David said, 'Tonight I will sleep with SEVENTY ladies each of whom will conceive a child who will be a knight fighting for "Allah's Cause.' His companion said, 'If Allah will.' But Solomon did not say so; therefore none of those women got pregnant except one who gave birth to a half child." The Prophet further said, "If the Prophet Solomon had said it (i.e. 'If Allah will' he would have begotten children who would have fought in Allah's Cause." Shuaib and Ibn Abi Az-Zinad said, "Ninety (women) is more correct (than seventy)."
Bukhari Vol. 8, Book 78, Hadith # 634.
Narated By Abu Huraira Allah's Apostle said, "(The Prophet) Solomon once said, 'Tonight I will sleep with NINETY women, each of whom will bring forth a (would-be) cavalier who will fight in Allah's Cause." On this, his companion said to him, "Say Allah willing!" But he did not say Allah willing. Solomon then slept with all the women, but none of them became pregnant but one woman who later delivered a half-man. By Him in Whose Hand Muhammad's soul is, if he (Solomon) had said, 'Allah willing' (all his wives would have brought forth boys) and they would have fought in Allah's Cause as cavaliers."
Volume 4, Book 52, Number 74i Narrated Abu Huraira
Allah's Apostle said, "Once Solomon, son of David said, '(By Allah) Tonight I will have sexual intercourse with one hundred (or ninety-nine) women each of whom will give birth to a knight who will fight in Allah's Cause.' On that a (i.e. if Allah wills) but he did not say, 'Allah willing.' Therefore only one of those women conceived and gave birth to a half-man. By Him in Whose Hands Muhammad's life is, if he had said, "Allah willing', (he would have begotten sons) all of whom would have been knights striving in Allah's Cause."
Volume 9, Book 93, Number 561
Narrated Abu HurairaAllah's Prophet Solomon who had sixty wives, once said, "Tonight I will have sexual relation (sleep) with all my wives so that each of them will become pregnant and bring forth (a boy who will grow into) a cavalier and will fight in Allah's Cause." So he slept with his wives and none of them (conceived and) delivered (a child) except one who brought a half (body) boy (deformed). Allah's Prophet said, "If Solomon had said; 'If Allah Will,' then each of those women would have delivered a (would-be) cavalier to fight in Allah's Cause." (See Hadith No. 74 A, Vol. 4).
If the early muslims heard any of these 4 differing hadith from a man who makes it up depending on who he is telling his story to, they would have laughed and not taken this as any part of religion or anything to do with any prophet, just a man who tells lies, which is exactly what it is.
OR
Bukhari got tired when he was doing his 'science' of classifying them and just didnt bother to check on consistency which means he did NOT do any 'science' as he claims to have done.
Someone here is lying, which is it?
FAR]
There is no question that science, real science, is not compatible with religion, of course it is compatible if one is to believe the word of God.How on earth can you say that real science is not compatible with religion? Religion created real science!
Read it again. I said there is NO QUESTION and OF COURSE IT IS compatible with religion.