Taking off the Hijab
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Salaam,
Not miniskirt... but believe it or not, I have seen a woman wearing a hijab and a sleeveless top s. But I am not making any judgment. They're just human beings like us.
Peace,
Respect.I believe that those sisters maybe doubt/question sunnah and hadith .......
God knows best.
I'd say their Logic is winning.
God knows best.Peace.
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They're just human beings like us.
laugh
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Peace Umi,
I think that modesty in clothing is loose clothing but most importantly, it covers the bosoms. If you're not comfortable enough to run in those trousers then you're doing something wrong P If your breathing is restricted by that t-shirt, you know it's perhaps not the best choice. Alhamdulillah, even though there are a lot of immodest fashions out there today, there are a LOT of ways to dress very modestly and many clothings in the high street stores that cater to more modest shoppers. Although, I do think that consumerism and modesty are interlinked. Can you really be called modest if you cover properly but you buy all the latest fashions and are so preoccupied with new clothes, best brand shoes and too much clothes to fit in your wardrobe. I don't think that modesty is straight forward as a Hijab or looser trousers, it even encompasses how you carry yourself, your attitude, your ideals and your approach to clothing. Thankfully though, frivolous spending does nothing for me. I remember spending quite a bit of money once on some lovely clothes and the next day I felt so disgusted with myself that I returned that which wasn't necessary. I learned early on that so long as you're appearance is clean and presentable and keeping within the bounds of modesty, you're alright.
These are just my opinions though, take them as such  
Peace
Hey Sirius
Thanks for your input! i've always said modesty is far more than just what cloths you choose to wear too.
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very true
thus women should not be forced to wear hijab because some men could not contain their lustPeace
For an essay/text about lust (and love), i recommend
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9600988.0
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peace to all
Abraham's father threatened to stone him to death for his beliefs. Abraham persevered.
I don't doubt people in this thread who have spoken will actually receive negative reactions from their family. I'm sure it was not easy for Abraham at all for his own father to threaten him with death because of his beliefs.
You should defend your beliefs and not be "gutless" about it. Sorry if I come across as cold and unsympathetic, but I don't know what else kind of input I can possibly give on this topic. Elucidate your views clearly, if you believe that it is not in the Qu'ran then argue clearly when you face opposition. Those with knowledge who speak up and display it (not out of vain) are an influence on others. You may not realize it, but you will be strengthening and positively influencing others in the same and similar positions to be as courageous as you are.
At the very worst you may die for it, but you will die for fighting in Allah's cause. I don't know how idealistic people on here are, but that is a great thing to die for don't be scared and worried about losing this life. Fear Allah and going against what you yourself have stated you know is not necessary. And remember once again that your courage will influence others.
I for one would defend you in anyway necessary if I was in your proximity and saw some kind of negative reaction. And I'm sure I'm not the only one.
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FAR You can judge the females here all you like and you can use any study you wish but what you cannot bring is the most crucial thing. You can NOT find ANYWHERE in the book of Allah (swt) 'COVER YOUR THE HAIR ON YOUR HEAD'.
So PLEASE stop ranting.
If MEN go deaf when they see a woman then HOW ABOUT perhaps THEY follow the Quran when it says LOWER YOUR GAZE!
I couldn't be bothered to read all that judgemental tripe you posted.
This debate will be over and I will stand corrected the minute you show me where Allah commands women to cover the hair on their head. Until then, you can whip yourself into a frenzy.
Peace
neither could I. (the tripe he posted)
I shook my head figuratively at his smug description of himself, his muay thai skills and calling Sarah a donkey.
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oh I do understand sir, I understand because our local veg man felt the need to touch me while I was fully covered and during Ramadan, I understand because the man who collects the rubbish felt the need to put his foot in the door and try to get inside, with his dick in his hand under his galabaya, also during Ramadan, I understand because the local butcher felt the need to grab me from behind while the Quran was playing on the tv in his shop, I fully understand that its MEN that have a problem and not me who needs to cover myself up, all these happened while in a MUSLIM country while I WAS wearing the hijab. >
peace
yeah that's...I don't know what to say that's just horrible
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peace to all
Abraham's father threatened to stone him to death for his beliefs. Abraham persevered.
I don't doubt people in this thread who have spoken will actually receive negative reactions from their family. I'm sure it was not easy for Abraham at all for his own father to threaten him with death because of his beliefs.
You should defend your beliefs and not be "gutless" about it. Sorry if I come across as cold and unsympathetic, but I don't know what else kind of input I can possibly give on this topic. Elucidate your views clearly, if you believe that it is not in the Qu'ran then argue clearly when you face opposition. Those with knowledge who speak up and display it (not out of vain) are an influence on others. You may not realize it, but you will be strengthening and positively influencing others in the same and similar positions to be as courageous as you are.
At the very worst you may die for it, but you will die for fighting in Allah's cause. I don't know how idealistic people on here are, but that is a great thing to die for don't be scared and worried about losing this life. Fear Allah and going against what you yourself have stated you know is not necessary. And remember once again that your courage will influence others.
I for one would defend you in anyway necessary if I was in your proximity and saw some kind of negative reaction. And I'm sure I'm not the only one.
Peace AK85,
I don't think it's just an issue of being afraid to be confronted about my convictions although I won't lie to you, that is a part of it. I did take it off for a few days a while ago in an unfamiliar place and I remembered one of the main reasons I put it on; men. Literally five minutes after a took it off I had a shop-keeper eyeing me up. Needless to say I stayed indoors for most of the time I was away but when I did leave the house the same sort of thing was happening. Maybe I had something in my hair , you never know or maybe it's just my luck that I run into pervs. In those few days without Hijab I came across more sickos than in over a year with it.
As soon as I was on my way back home I put it straight back on. Being in an obscure area without Hijab is OK, but in the city, not such a good idea. Some men somehow get the idea that they can talk to you and harass you if they feel like it and they feel they have a right to your personal phone number and if you disagree with them on that point, they will harass you even more.
I'm perfectly convinced that it's not a religious obligation and although timid, I'm ready to fight my corner in regards to that belief, but taking it off doesn't just invite those who are adamant that it's compulsory (without proof incidentally) to harass me but also men. I generally just felt quite naked with it off.
I was seriously considering taking it off full time until this...
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Hey Sirius
Thanks for your input! i've always said modesty is far more than just what cloths you choose to wear too.
surely your choices are affected by the level of your modesty. Women who choose to wear revealing clothes are not considered modest! May God give them some wisdom.
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surely your choices are affected by the level of your modesty. Women who choose to wear revealing clothes are not considered modest! May God give them some wisdom.
i'd agree, if someone chooses to wear revealing cloths their choice wasnt a very modest one, my point was that modesty isnt just about the cloths someones wears.
i've met very rude and arrogant or very pleasant a righteous naqabies and women in low-cup tops and short skirts. it just goes to show cloths dont make someone modest,, theres loads of character choices that define a persons modesty levels.
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peace to all
Abraham's father threatened to stone him to death for his beliefs. Abraham persevered.
I disagree. Apples and oranges. Abraham wasn't threatened BECAUSE of his beliefs, but that Abraham insisted on calling his father out on his nonsensical beliefs,rituals, etc. Also, Abraham was going to be burnt alive due to his persistence ...Let's be practical here. Read the context of 1946 carefully.
The purpose of the dress code is to prevent harassment/being harmed/annoyance (3359). If Sirius feels she is being harassed with it off, I think there's nothing wrong with her wearing it.It depends on your intent. A Quranic dress code deters harassment. That's the golden rule. You just can't say x is COMPULSORY.
Peace
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As soon as I was on my way back home I put it straight back on. Being in an obscure area without Hijab is OK, but in the city, not such a good idea. Some men somehow get the idea that they can talk to you and harass you if they feel like it and they feel they have a right to your personal phone number and if you disagree with them on that point, they will harass you even more.
I'm perfectly convinced that it's not a religious obligation and although timid, I'm ready to fight my corner in regards to that belief, but taking it off doesn't just invite those who are adamant that it's compulsory (without proof incidentally) to harass me but also men. I generally just felt quite naked with it off.
I was seriously considering taking it off full time until this...
Don't people harass you in the scarf? Muslims in particular, they can also feel the right to have your personal number...
You've been wearing it for some time so I can imagine that you would feel naked without it..
You know though I have noticed everyone I know who's worn it has had issues with their hair, especially over a longer period. don't neglect your health.
BTW ever been in an area with hardly any muslims or scarfies? watch how they eye you out
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The purpose of the dress code is to prevent harassment/being harmed/annoyance (3359). If Sirius feels she is being harassed with it off, I think there's nothing wrong with her wearing it.
It depends on your intent. A Quranic dress code deters harassment. That's the golden rule. You just can't say x is COMPULSORY.
Situational
http//misconceptions-about-islam.com/dress-code-women-veil.htm -
Peace AK85,
I don't think it's just an issue of being afraid to be confronted about my convictions although I won't lie to you, that is a part of it. I did take it off for a few days a while ago in an unfamiliar place and I remembered one of the main reasons I put it on; men. Literally five minutes after a took it off I had a shop-keeper eyeing me up. Needless to say I stayed indoors for most of the time I was away but when I did leave the house the same sort of thing was happening. Maybe I had something in my hair P, you never know or maybe it's just my luck that I run into pervs. In those few days without Hijab I came across more sickos than in over a year with it.
As soon as I was on my way back home I put it straight back on. Being in an obscure area without Hijab is OK, but in the city, not such a good idea. Some men somehow get the idea that they can talk to you and harass you if they feel like it and they feel they have a right to your personal phone number and if you disagree with them on that point, they will harass you even more.
I'm perfectly convinced that it's not a religious obligation and although timid, I'm ready to fight my corner in regards to that belief, but taking it off doesn't just invite those who are adamant that it's compulsory (without proof incidentally) to harass me but also men. I generally just felt quite naked with it off.
I was seriously considering taking it off full time until this...
I'm not sure if thats enough of a reason to justify hijab, i wont disagree with your choice, but i just think in day to day life i dont feel very protected by wearing it.
when out i generally feel like i stick out like a sore thumb, and men on many occasions will approach me, call me over or eye me up. its degrading, embarrassing and makes me feel like i want to disappear. this would happen mostly by muslim men which i understand, they see the hijab and presume loads about me, but at the same time i'll still get crap from non muslim men so its clearly not enough of a deterrent. on several occasions i've felt really unsafe this ranges from being followed home at night to being sexually harassed in a mosque.
i have non muslim friends who've had no such problems or even close.
i just think ultimately the problem dosent lie with us, God didnt create us to be a massive problem to society that needs to be hidden as sunnism would suggest, some men are just WEIRD! hijab or not.
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Peace AK85,
I don't think it's just an issue of being afraid to be confronted about my convictions although I won't lie to you, that is a part of it. I did take it off for a few days a while ago in an unfamiliar place and I remembered one of the main reasons I put it on; men. Literally five minutes after a took it off I had a shop-keeper eyeing me up. Needless to say I stayed indoors for most of the time I was away but when I did leave the house the same sort of thing was happening. Maybe I had something in my hair P, you never know or maybe it's just my luck that I run into pervs. In those few days without Hijab I came across more sickos than in over a year with it.
As soon as I was on my way back home I put it straight back on. Being in an obscure area without Hijab is OK, but in the city, not such a good idea. Some men somehow get the idea that they can talk to you and harass you if they feel like it and they feel they have a right to your personal phone number and if you disagree with them on that point, they will harass you even more.
I'm perfectly convinced that it's not a religious obligation and although timid, I'm ready to fight my corner in regards to that belief, but taking it off doesn't just invite those who are adamant that it's compulsory (without proof incidentally) to harass me but also men. I generally just felt quite naked with it off.
I was seriously considering taking it off full time until this...
peace
Allah tests the believers. I'm assuming you weren't half naked and the only thing you were displaying is your hair (oh no!), if so Allah was testing you. Allah tests you with everything, including any and all kinds of security (life, finances etc.) (This is why we should not be scared of death when propagating what we feel are true beliefs of Allah. This can be hard and I'm certainly not saying I am 100% percent never scared of discussing any and all of my beliefs.)
As people have said in this thread if someone gets a hard on from seeing a woman displaying her hair, that man has problems and is a pervert not you. To suggest a woman is "asking for it" or being unfair by displaying her hair is ludicrous. I notice women that reveal much more than their hair and I can control myself. The men who can't have problems, not me.
I am not and will not dare imply that I am 100% courageous about everything that I should be courageous about. Maybe you don't have to argue with these people or even say anything when they pester you and question (why you don't wear the hijab) you. If you in your heart know that you are doing the right thing, do not worry about their slander and insults and backbiting. Your perseverance is your mark of faith and will shine brightly on Judgement Day. Your courage in standing up for your beliefs will inspire others who take notice of it, you may or may not witness this inspiration. They may be inspired by your courage and honesty on this particular subject, or to be courageous and honest against unsavoury odds in general.
My heart goes to women like you and I agree that some men are revolting creatures with no self control.
The following excerpt from this article brought tears to my eyes in regards to this man's courage (http//www.ahl-alquran.com/English/show_article.php?main_id=2614), and hopefully it can inspire you
In the early 1990?s, I was invited by the Egyptian association for religious brotherhood to lecture in a church in Cairo to Muslims and Christians about tolerance. I was warned that there was a suspicious bearded man waiting for me in front of the church.
We talked. He told me that he had spent two months trying to meet me. He told me that he had been a member of secret fanatic organization and was assigned to rebut my discourse, but that my words had changed his and his family?s life. He asked me to join my weekly Friday prayer meeting at my home, and if possible bring his family.
After a month they became Quranists.
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It depends on your intent. A Quranic dress code deters harassment. That's the golden rule. You just can't say x is COMPULSORY.
Peace
I agree with you on that.
Don't people harass you in the scarf? Muslims in particular, they can also feel the right to have your personal number...
You've been wearing it for some time so I can imagine that you would feel naked without it..
You know though I have noticed everyone I know who's worn it has had issues with their hair, especially over a longer period. don't neglect your health.
BTW ever been in an area with hardly any muslims or scarfies? watch how they eye you out
Yes, they do but it's not in the same aggressive attitude. Most Muslims have an inkling of what they might be doing wrong and you can guilt trip them into leaving you alone. Non-Muslim guys think that they are well within their rights to do what they are doing, to an extent the Muslim guys do think so to but when you play them at their own game 'No, I cannot be your friend as friendships between males and females are wrong" they leave you alone. ;D
And I lol'd at 'watch how they eye you out'. Too true Sarah, too true.
I'm not sure if thats enough of a reason to justify hijab, i wont disagree with your choice, but i just think in day to day life i dont feel very protected by wearing it.
when out i generally feel like i stick out like a sore thumb, and men on many occasions will approach me, call me over or eye me up. its degrading, embarrassing and makes me feel like i want to disappear. this would happen mostly by muslim men which i understand, they see the hijab and presume loads about me, but at the same time i'll still get crap from non muslim men so its clearly not enough of a deterrent. on several occasions i've felt really unsafe this ranges from being followed home at night to being sexually harassed in a mosque.
i have non muslim friends who've had no such problems or even close.
i just think ultimately the problem dosent lie with us, God didnt create us to be a massive problem to society that needs to be hidden as sunnism would suggest, some men are just WEIRD! hijab or not.
I wasn't trying to justify Hijab, inside I am very torn about the concept though. On the one hand I remember all of the occasions that could have been potentially horrible had I not been wearing Hijab and then I remember things like the other day when I was wearing Hijab yet some man decides to start with his 'MashaAllah' nonsense really very loudly in the street. I guess I'm wearing it wrong, not being blacked out enough. And then I remember an experience where I was out very late and I honestly think if I wasn't wearing Hijab that something potentially bad could have happened to me. I'm really trying to weight up the pros and cons in my mind. My main reason is that I do not want to walk around advertising a form of Islam that I don't believe in but is being safe a necessary price to pay? And then it goes round and round in my head. What if I take it off? It gives me a headache to think about it. All i know is that I want to take it off but I want to walk around without having guys breathing down my neck.
And yes, some guys are mentally unstable whether you wear Hijab or not, in fact I will extend that to all guys )
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Yes, they do but it's not in the same aggressive attitude. Most Muslims have an inkling of what they might be doing wrong and you can guilt trip them into leaving you alone. Non-Muslim guys think that they are well within their rights to do what they are doing
Where do you live, Sirius, if I may ask?
My experience is exactly the opposite. In Cairo, I am subject to harassment on a daily basis, so are the majority of women there, regardless of how they are dressed. The men are very, very aggressive and people rarely ever interfere because it's commonly assumed that this is "normal" male behaviour. Recent studies have shown that the majority of Egyptian men harass women regularly and see nothing wrong with that whatsoever. (I think I even posted this study somewhere in this long thread, since we discussed sexual harassment in Arabic countries before.)
In my European homecountry and in other places where I've lived, I very, very rarely get harassed, and if it happens it is ridiculously tame compared to the harassment in Egypt, or the one I have experienced in other Arabic countries, for that matter.
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Peace Everyone
Quran 726
O Children of Adam, We have sent down for you garments to alleviate your bodies, and feathers; and the garment of righteousness is the best. That is from the signs of God, perhaps they will remember.Humanity has been given garments to cover their body, . In the verse above, we are told that the garment of righteousness is best. What does this mean? The garment of righteousness is a metaphor. And garments protects us, so we should protect ourselves with righteous (be righteous). As you have probably noticed, in the verse above it says Children of Adam. It does not say women or men. This is because this verse is for both women and men. The advice in it is for both women and men.
Quran 727
O Children of Adam, do not let the devil afflict you as he evicted your parents from the paradise; he removes from them their garments to show them their bodies. He and his tribe see you from where you do not see them. We have made the devils as allies for those who do not believe.The evil force/impulse/lust motivates people to remove their garments from their body.
Quran 2460
And the women who are past child bearing, who no longer seek to get married, have no sin upon them if they put-off their garments, provided they are not adorned for beauty. And if they remain as they were, then it is better for them. God is Hearer, Knower.Women who are finished with giving birth and no longer want to get married, does not need to have the same modesty as other women. They can relax their dress code. But they should not were less modest clothes to show their beauty. And it is better for the women if they remain modest (and do not relax their dress code).
Quran 3359
O prophet, tell your wives, your daughters, and the women of the believers that they should lengthen upon themselves their outer garments. That is better so that they will not be recognized and harmed. God is Forgiver, Merciful.Women who are believers should lenghten upon themselves their outer garments (wear clothes that will cover more parts of their bodies). The reason for doing this is to not be harassed by men. Keep in mind that this does not mean that a woman should cover her hair. This just mean that she should cover more parts of her body, since, then the chance of being harmed is less. From the above verse, it is obvious that modesty is the dress code of women who are believers.
Quran 2187
...They are a garment for you and you are a garment for them...Wives are a garment (protection) for their husbands, and husbands are a garment (protection) for their wives. The word garment here is a metaphor.
Quran 2431
And tell the believing females to lower their gaze and keep covered their private parts, and that they should not reveal their beauty except what is apparent, and let them put forth their shawls over their cleavage. And let them not reveal their beauty except to their husbands, or their fathers, or fathers of their husbands, or their sons, or the sons of their husbands, or their brothers, or the sons of their brothers, or the sons of their sisters, or their women, or those maintained by their oaths, or the male servants who are without need, or the child who has not yet understood the composition of women. And let them not strike with their feet in a manner that reveals what they are keeping hidden of their beauty. And repent to God, all of you believers, that you may succeed.As you can see from the verse above, women who are believers, should hide their bossoms, keep them covered. From my interpretation, this means that women should cover their breast completely. But this order is only for women who are believers. NOT for women from other beliefs. In a picture below, you can see that the breast of this woman is not fully covered, something which is not compatible with islam
http//i.thisislondon.co.uk/i/pix/2008/12/cheryl-cleavage-500x700.jpg
http//fuzzythoughts.files.wordpress.com/2008/01/scarlettjohansson.jpgIn the pictures above, you can see that the breasts of those women are not completely covered. And from my understanding of the Quran, this is not compatible with islam. However, keep in mind that only believers should cover their breasts. Women from other beliefs do not have the same obligations as believers (women from islam).
Further, in verse 2431, we can see that women who are believers should not strike their feet in a manner that reveals what they are keeping hidden of their beauty. As you probably have noticed, many women walk in a way that reveal their beauty. They shake their butts and hips while they walk. And many women wear high heels, which shows their beauty. Wearing high heels can make the body of a woman more symmetrical, it makes the butt seem more big and pulls it backward, and it pushes the bottoms forward
http//www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-548730/Lifes-little-mysteries-Why-women-wear-high-heels-did-kamikaze-pilots-wear-helmets.html
By the way, I recommend this article below. In the article, the author compares two extremes, women with bikini and women with burka. I do not agree with everything the author says, but i think it is an interesting comparison between some women in the west and some women in the east.
http//www.rense.com/general29/deb.htm
If women get harassed by men, what can they do? First of all, even if a woman walks almost naked in the street, the men are still responsible for their actions and behaviour and have no right to act immorally and harass women. Men have no right to harass any woman whether she wears hijab or not. And whether she wears modest clothes or not. But, I think if a women were modest clothes, it may reduce the chance of being harassed in the streets. What do i men by modest clothes? In the pictures below are some examples of modest clothing that women who follow islam based on quran can get ideas/inspiration from
http//img.christa-taylor.com/t/category-product/img/graphics/00000001/p-canvasbib.jpg
http//www.tznius.com/images/products/cordtieredskirt1.JPG
http//www.catholichomeandgarden.com/Modest%20Clothing/Floral%20Essence%20Modest%20Clothing.jpg
http//mastina.files.wordpress.com/2008/03/wt6127b.jpg
http//www.silhouettes.com/HanoverAssets/silhouettes/large_images/7A256230_BO.jpg
http//www.denimology.com/2009/03/Z2H5QRKIZ4_JJennifer_Love_Hewitt_inGenetic_Denim_Boyfriend_jeans_JTn_Toluca_Lake_-March_7_36.jpg
http//www.modestclothingsite.com/images/modest-clothing.jpg
http//www.likeawarmcupofcoffee.com/home/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/sponsor-pics-0084.jpgWearing Hijab is not a duty from the Quran. It was introduced to muslims through christianity. It has nothing to do with islam or the quran. But at the same time, if a believer wants to wear Hijab, she can wear it. No verse in the quran tells us that women are not allowed to wear headscarf. So wearing hijab is not from islam, but at the same time, wearing it is not uncompatible with islam neither.
islam teaches us to follow the middlepath. We should follow the middlepath when it comes to clothes as well. We are adviced to wear modest clothes (not just women, but also men).
