"Laa lilaha illallah"
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You know Genesis 19 states that Lot had sex with his own daughters right? Is that from The God?
You know that the Old Testament says it was Isaac who was asked to be sacrificed and the Qu'ran says it was Ishamel right? (I am aware that some people believe that this was a dream and not an actual occurence, I do not remember their arguments so I can't comment on whether I believe it was actual or just a dream) Is the Isaac story from The God?
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What doesn't make sense? You said that going by my logic, people who believe in la illaha ill Allah are hypocrites, going by my logic, because they have not directly seen The God...and my reply was they are not hypocrites, because they might not have seen him, but they have seen His proofs.
What doesn't make sense, can you detail it instead of simply saying it doesn't make sense?
Again you say I said something I do NOT say. YOU were the one that said they were hypocrites, not me
First of all, when they say "We bear witness" can it not be said (I'm seriously asking for some feedback and perhaps constructive criticism on the following) they are hypocrites because they are not actually bearing witness? Are they in the prophet pbuh's head and witnessing the revelation? They are only witnessing it through him uttering the revelation, not through directly witnessing the message being delivered
AK it seems you have some problem in reading my posts and seeing what I actually write and some problem remembering what you write. It also appears you are suffering from some paranoia regarding what you think I have said to you when in reality I have not said it to you or not said it at all.
I dont think we have anything further to discuss.
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Peace Mazhar
You wrote
<<<< It is certain that Allah and His Angels send blessings upon the Distinctly Elevated and Chosen One
O you who declare to have accepted listen this imperative,
you people incline upon him with love and praising praying Allah for sending blessings, and you people submit to him salutations showing obeisance in a humble and respectful manner. who refused to show obeisance to Adam whom Allah granted distinction and honour].>>>>
Are you implying/teaching us that God Almighty is sending His blessing on prophet like you as a slogan? Or would you think God plays double face in the Quran when He asks us not to make distinction among His Messengers and out of the blue asks us to keep sending blessing on one of them by the name of Mohammad?! ??.Or would you think prophet needs our blessing?
Where about in 3356 God is asking us to ask Him to pray /praise Prophet?
Where about in the Quran God is asking us to obey Prophet that you?ve written in above ?show obedience to him ??If one keep praising Prophet then what?s happened to the verses where God is asking us to praise/glorify Him day and night?
whatever you?d want to interpret the word ?Sallou? God is asking the believers to do the same thing for prophet as He and Angels does/did for him??Why turning your tongue and asking God to do the job you were asked to do it for Prophet?!!.....in no way God is asking you to ask Him to praise and bless prophet.
And finally where about in the Quran we?re asked to send Salawat on Prophet whenever his name mentions??????And if God sends His Salawat on him according to your understanding and innovation then why God does not send Salawat on Mohammad when his name has been mentioned in the Quran!?
Information about Salawat on Mohammad can be read here;
http//submission.org/muhammed/salawat.html
Peace
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The arguments put forward by a Munafiq are like
http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/063.%20Al%20Munafiqoon/63.4a.gif
and if they speak you should carefully listen for their speech
http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/063.%20Al%20Munafiqoon/63.4b.gif
to find that it is loose and week/they are like cankered, empty from within wood pieces made to stand with support of some structure.Chapter 63 Muna'fi'qoon
The link site--main premises of argument is this
(1) First of all, Muhammad is described in this verse as "NABI" (prophet). This particular description is used throughout the Quran, exclusively, when talking about Muhammad when he was alive, and never after his death.
And he naively demolished his stack by saying this
(4) Because the believers observe the SALAT prayers five times daily, they are in contact with their Creator, and their Creator is in contact with them. This is why we see that God and His angels do the same thing for the believers, as well as for the Prophet
Allah is still doing it despite knowing he is since dead.
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Where about in the Quran God is asking us to obey Prophet that you?ve written in above ?show obedience to him ??
I had quoted this with Arabic text
http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/033.%20Al%20Ahzaab/33.56a.gif
you people incline upon him with love and praising praying Allah for sending blessings, and you people submit to him salutations showing obeisance in a humble and respectful manner. who refused to show obeisance to Adam whom Allah granted distinction and honour].After the imperative command there is Cognate Adverb reflecting the manner how the act is to be done.
And the Munafiq of 20th century substituted the words of Allah with his own desire of diseased heart as
"and regard him as he should be regarded" to bring in vagueness.
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Information about Salawat on Mohammad can be read here;
http//submission.org/muhammed/salawat.html
I knew many stupidites of Rashad Khalifa and the fact that he had very little grasp over Arabic, but this was not earlier in my notice.
(3) The words YUSALLOON or SALLOO or YUSALEE or SALAT are all derived from the root word WASALA, the noun being WASL, or making contact. The word SALLOO, therefore, means to keep in contact with the Prophet, to join him, to be with him, and to support him with all our strength. Of course, this could be done only when he was alive. Hence the use of the word NABI.
Perhaps he is the only one, I have not noticed yet any one else, who thought these words to be from Root "Waw Suad Laam".
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Again you say I said something I do NOT say. YOU were the one that said they were hypocrites, not me
So on that basis anyone here that has said la illaha illallah is also a hypocrite as we have not seen God, we have not 'Witnessed' God in person. the testimony of I bear witness that there is No God But God is based on what we see as evidence in His Words but not with everyone. I fully believe and testify that there is no God but God the Creator of the Universe and everything in it because of the proof I see of it every day. I have not seen God but I will testify there is one and that testimony does not have to be related to a court of law.
Yes, I said the people who add the testimony/witness to the prophet pbuh being the messenger are hypocrites, I never said those who say la illaha illallah are hypocrites, it is clear that that was the conclusion you drew, not the conclusion that I made.
And I clarified why I believe they aren't hypocrites, because they accept the proofs of their Lord which are provided in the Qu'ran.
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You know what doesn't make sense to me? Someone who would bring up that the Qu'ran is a clear explanation for everything when refuting a hadithist, but would refer to the old testament because the Qu'ran isn't a clear explanation for everything.
Here is proof of what I did not see
Considering Allah confirmed the torah and given we are allowed to eat the food of the Jews, the instructions regarding what you can or cannot eat are in Torah.
http//www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Leviticus+11&version=KJV
http//www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Deuteronomy+14&version=KJVThats also where it says about seafood too. You will find this is the same food as in Quran but I think the various birds and animals are named more. Tigers and Lions have paws, so they are out. No eagle pies either and actually no shellfish, you will find many muslims also say this but are never sure where it came from
So the Qu'ran is not fully detailed for you? Or its fully detailed/well distinguished and a clear explanation to everything that points out other books where you can find additional explanations and details, like whether Job cursed the day he was born or not and whether Lot had sex with his daughters or not
I thought The God does not run out of words? How is it then a clear explanation for everything and fully detailed/well distinguished
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Here is proof of what I did not see
Considering Allah confirmed the torah and given we are allowed to eat the food of the Jews, the instructions regarding what you can or cannot eat are in Torah.
http//www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Leviticus+11&version=KJV
http//www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Deuteronomy+14&version=KJVThats also where it says about seafood too. You will find this is the same food as in Quran but I think the various birds and animals are named more. Tigers and Lions have paws, so they are out. No eagle pies either and actually no shellfish, you will find many muslims also say this but are never sure where it came from
here is more proof of what you did not see"the Torah and Gospel ARE from Allah, its one book, its the same message from the same source given through different messengers. Quran tells you this!"
So the Qu'ran is not fully detailed for you? Or its fully detailed/well distinguished and a clear explanation to everything that points out other books where you can find additional explanations and details, like whether Job cursed the day he was born or not and whether Lot had sex with his daughters or not
It seems you are still determined to have a go at me for some unknown reason. Regarding the above, would you have had the same difficulty in believing that prophet Moses was a murderer if it had not been confirmed in Quran? yes you would.
I thought The God does not run out of words? How is it then a clear explanation for everything and fully detailed/well distinguished
He did not run out of words and He completed the message He had to give us with Quran being the final part of it, I see this is difficult for you to comprehend.
I have also said elsewhere, that I am here to learn and nothing I say is written in stone. what I believed 8 years ago is not what I believe today, the more I read and study the more I see things perhaps differently to how I saw it before. I have also said that the older parts of the message are not word for word as far as we know, unless we speak and read Hebrew and Aramaic we dont know. the English translations of these books have been retranslated and updated as will also English translations of Quran, does that mean they are corrupted too? Corruption in the message is done orally, its done here in this forum and its done out in the real world by Muslims Jews and Christians. I do not yet read Arabic nor do I read Hebrew and Aramaic so all I have to go on is English translations as you do. I prefer to study these as best I can using different translations and with the Arabic I look words up, harder to do in Hebrew and Aramaic, so I study Judaism too to see if that helps me get the clearer message that God sent with His various messengers. In doing this study I have reached conclusions I am on today, I may read something tomorrow that takes me back to square one or further onwards, I dont know, all I know is I am trying to get to the message, the whole message, from God to man. If you have not read the previous books then you will not know how there are many references to them in Quran, (much of which explains many questions that are raised from those reading Quran) to actual people and happenings which for me I want to know and match up those pieces, you may not but thats up to you. For me, God said He sent those Books then I want to study those books too. If I see something that relates to those books, as I did in the food thread, then I will say so. Whether you want to read yourself, or ignore it or whatever is up to you, but chasing me into other threads because you do not agree with what I say is not acceptable.
to put it simply, it is like trying to watch part 3 of a trilogy without seeing 1 and 2, you will have questions if you only see the last part which 1 and 2 would explain. I am not saying you have to do this or that anyone else has to do this, I am saying this is what I do and I do not have to justify that to you or to anyone else.
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Yes, I do have difficulty in believing things which are not negated or confirmed by the Qu'ran.
I believe things which are not addressed, possibly because they are not false...are not pertinent to our salvation. And other than for a perspective of understanding the beliefs of people who follow these books, I feel these things which are not addressed are unnecessary for salvation.
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Oh ok. So would you describe yourself then as Qu'ran only, or Qu'ran and old testament and Gospel only
you barely had time to read and take in what I said. ;D
I would describe myself as One God Only, married, 5'1" 'been there done that wrote the book got the T-shirt", female. Is that acceptable to you, sir? -\
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The reason is clear, you refer to the old testament for important details which you feel were left out.
Is that your final conclusion your honour?It is clear you have no conclusive evidence and various statements to the contrary and are basing your judgement on conjecture and false assumptions which are based on your own inability to see anything clearly, (particularly my One Book posts) my conclusion of that is based on some of the questions you ask then attacking the answerer claiming they think the same which you have then decided was wrong.
Also you have said before that the recital is evidence enough it doesn't matter what you were replying to when you said that, that is what you said.
it matters a great deal what I was replying to your honour. In fact I was saying the recital was evidnece enough for me to believe Muhammed was indeed the messenger of Allah!
I ask the jury to take 5 minutes to think on this evidence of corruption in this court by the prosecution!
brickwall
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You are going to pay one day for your arrogance and sarcasm and implying that I think of myself as some kind of great judge for whom everyone should seek approval from.
;D
Hey by the way, I just found this interesting post which you completely dodged as well lmao
Salaam,
Yes, I am aware that the Torah is the first five books of the Bible.
Therefore by your argument, instead of abstaining from only 4 food namely blood, carrion, pork and food dedicated to idols (2173, 53, 6145 and 16115), we muslims have to abstain from food that is forbidden in the Torah (Leviticus 111-45)? The list includes animals with undivided hoof, sea animals with no fins or no scales, fowls that creep, birds of prey, carnivores and creeping animals. You may argue that God forbids different food to Jews because as punishment, but the forbidden food for Jews, as the Qur'an stated is (apart from the four food already forbidden for muslims) animals with claws and fats of oxen and cattle that touch the bones (6146) . Therefore tell me, out of the Torah and the Qur'an, which ones will you follow when it comes to the prohibitions of food?
Shall we then stone people guilty of adultery and witchcraft to death? Deuteronomy 222, Leviticus 2027.
Shall we too stone people guilty of apostasy to death? Deuteronomy 131-10
If you believe that the Torah, or the first five books of the Bible, to be confirmed by Qur'an, then I take it you believe the story of the Prophets in the Torah? Will you then believe that Lot became intoxicated and laid with his two daughters? Will you then believe that Jacob deceived Isaac in order to steal the blessing of his own brother?
There are many other things I can mention, but I will refrain. My point is, there ARE many commandments in the Torah that you do not find the Qur'an and the portrayal of the prophets in the Torah is oftentimes not as noble and honourable as in the Qur'an. In regards to Torah, I believe there is some truth and some errors. The Qur'an confirms the truth that you can find in the Torah, but not the errors. Since the Qur'an does NOT confirm circumcision, I do not take it as a commandment that should be imposed on mankind.
Salaam.
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I thought you were going to not read anything further though?
No what I said last night was that I had not read further than the part where you again twisted my words to make you think I was saying something against you that I wasnt. I did say good night.
Today I saw you had carried on in the same manner I said we had nothing further to discuss, I am a woman, I changed my mind, I may change it again at any second, its a thing we do.