"Laa lilaha illallah"
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People of the Book that do not claim or pronounce they believe in Quran and the Messenger are kafr?????? Please tell me where you get that from.
Also still waiting for an English word that you think best describes Munafiq other than hypocrite, thank you.
There is no word in the Arabic text which makes me think this, it is the meaning of the word Hypocrite/Munafiq which makes me think this and to me its obvious.
if I say I believe something then turn round and tell someone else I dont or I dont comply with what that belief asks of me then I am a hypocrite. Nothing to do with religion or Allah but to do with the meaning of the word.
It is not fitting to demand replies when you yourself ignore replies.
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It doesn't matter if they witnessed it with their eyes, or they overheard the murderer admitting it, they witnessed it in a manner (by either seeing it, or by hearing him say he did it, or by watching him dispose of the murder weapon, bring any example you like,) that proved to them beyond doubt that he committed the murder.
Do you know of anyone who witnessed beyond doubt with personal presence and perception that the Prophet pbuh was the Messenger of The God?
Based on the evidence they were given they believed that he was The Messenger of The God? What evidence? I am not talking about evidence in regards to the enlightening contents of the Qu'ran, I am talking about direct evidence that the Prophet received revelations from The God.
by the way, personal presence and perceptions are phrases I am using FROM YOUR OWN DEFINITION FOR WITNESSING/TESTIFYING THAT YOU PROVIDED.
Were you personally present to witness the message? Did you perceive the message being delivered?
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thats why it often says 'for men of understanding', do you think it is only for men or can women also understand it?
Actually, the Arabic expression is gender-neutral. It would probably be more correct to translate as "people of understanding" / "those with knowledge" / "those who possess intelligence".
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Peace Mazhar, the Quran is given in such a way that one has to use ones own brain to think about what it says to each individual person, thats why it often says 'for men of understanding', do you think it is only for men or can women also understand it?
Allah instructed Muhammed to recite it word for word as it was given, He did not tell him the words then tell him to go and give it to the people in his own words from his own mind and understanding of it. By adding Muhammed where Allah did not add Muhammed is wrong in my opinion, because that is not what Allah said. By adding Sal'lallaa'hoalaih'wa'salam you make it look to the reader that does not know Quran that this is what Allah said, He did not and never anywhere did He add those words in Quran. Praise it due for Allah alone.
When you add your own understanding to a verse you make the reader take on your understanding, which may or may not be the right understanding for them. You are doing exactly what M. Muhsin Khan translation does and what Tafsir ibn Kathir does in manipulating the mind of the reader.
For a none Arabic speaker their first introduction to Quran in thier own language is the one which will stick and form their opinions of Islam and Allah and Muhammed. This will be the grounding as to whether they go on and learn or dump the whole idea there and then. To have a translation that adds Muhammeds name and praises where Allah did not will not give the clear picture of the book that Allah intended. Any translation should be as absolutely as close to the word for word Arabic as possible so that inshaAllah the new reader will grasp the meaning enough to want to search the Arabic for themselves. I know well enough that 'to you' in this verse means to Muhammed because I have read other translations and the Arabic, thats how I know that 'Muhammed Sal'lallaa'hoalaih'wa'salam' is not there, a new reader would not.
I applaud your efforts and your time spent on translating Quran, but you have added to it your own understanding. We all have our own and very different understanding of the words depending on our own views, education, reading, life, etc. We all put a different view on how we see the meaning of the words of Allah as is clear from this forum and also based on how long we have been looking and how we have been educated in Islam and Quran. In a forum and in discussion thats fine to bounce our own ideas around between each other, but to actually add that understanding to the words of Allah is not and in looking through your site i have found many times you have done this. For instance, how did the blind man from chapter 80 suddenly get to chapter 74? The one that looked around and scowled in 74 is not Muhammed but you have made that Muhammed by adding the blind man and giving reference to 801. Another is hell, the word may be of feminine gender but it is not a female. You have hell as 'her with 19 males upon her', that is not what it says.
I am sorry if this offends you and I am sorry that the topic has gone off course, but its something that has kept me awake so i have to say it!
I will stop now, I could go on.
peace
Why do you say you could go on but you will stop? Do you think you are hurting people's feelings? Do you not feel a duty to clear up what you think are misunderstandings? Why would you stop then, and not continue?
As a matter of fact I not only hope but demand that people who know the truth and who see deficiencies and falsehood in what I post about address completely. And not conceal the truth by stopping when they could go on and elaborate why I am wrong.
And cover not Truth with falsehood, nor conceal the Truth when ye know (what it is).
Don't worry about people's feelings or fear hurt feelings, fear The God and worry about The God's commandments not to conceal the truth.
I'm not saying be tactless and offensive, but don't conceal the truth either.
p.s. I know the above verse is addressing the Children of Israel and concealing their revelation but my current understanding is that it can apply to all of us.
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He came into contact with Christians and Jews did he not? He was a trader, who lived in a city which came into contact with many peoples from different places. This is why people say oh he just plagiarized from the other two religions, after learning about them from people he encountered.
Are you implying that I don't believe now?
HOW did you manage to take that from what I said? oThe evidence for me is not the fact that he recited the Qu'ran, the evidence for me is in the enlightening Message in the Qu'ran.
That is also what I said! If you remember correctly is was you that opened this thread because YOU didnt understand how people could bear witness to something they did not SEE!If you really want to get into those who believe and those who don't believe though, please go and answer the other replies of mine to you in other threads, like the one about 53 and why you rely on the old testament for what food is and isn't forbidden, when the Qu'ran is a clear explanation for everything and why you believe relying on alcohol is ok for social occasions because some people are not self destructive alcoholics.
No I do not want to get into those who believe or dont believe and I have NOT said that, please read again and dont twist my words.
Where have I said I believe relying on alcohol is ok for social occassions because some people are not self destructive alcoholics? I have just been and checked that thread and I said NOTHING of the sort! o ??? -
your own definitions that you bolded for emphasis drew clear links between witnessing and testifying. A person is not a credible witness if their testimony is not backed up by clear evidence. You are asked to testify to the depiction of your dad's signature because you have witnessed his signature. This is why NO ONE INCLUDING THOSE WHO TESTIFY HE IS THE MESSENGER OF GOD OR THOSE WHO DO NOT ADD THIS BASELESS TESTIMONY ARE CLEAR WITNESSES TO THE PROPHET BEING THE MESSENGER OF GOD. YOU WERE NOT IN HIS BRAIN TO WITNESS THE MESSAGE BEING DELIVERED AND NEITHER WAS I. WE WITNESS THAT HE IS THE MESSENGER OF GOD BY FOLLOWING THE QU'RAN HE WAS GIVEN TO RECITE FOR US.
AND THAT IS WHAT I SAID WHEN YOU OPENED THIS THREAD ASKING HOW ONE CAN WITNESS WHAT THEY DID NOT SEE
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You have added your own understanding as well by relying on the old testament for advice. You are not Jewish to my knowledge, you do not need the old testament.
Then take it up with Allah as to WHY He confirmed those Books repeatedly throughout Quran and why He kept referencing things from those Books! That is not MY OWN understanding it is from Quran!
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by the way, personal presence and perceptions are phrases I am using FROM YOUR OWN DEFINITION FOR WITNESSING/TESTIFYING THAT YOU PROVIDED.
Were you personally present to witness the message? Did you perceive the message being delivered?
No, were you? But you testify based on the message in Quran the same as I do.
What IS your problem with me AK85? I have tried my best to answer your original question in as many ways I can so you will understand the words 'bear witness' and you now come back screaming at me that I did not witness anything and accuse me of saying things I have NOT said. What is your problem with me?
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Why do you say you could go on but you will stop? Do you think you are hurting people's feelings? Do you not feel a duty to clear up what you think are misunderstandings? Why would you stop then, and not continue?
because i was busy and have a life, my apologies for that!As a matter of fact I not only hope but demand that people who know the truth and who see deficiencies and falsehood in what I post about address completely. And not conceal the truth by stopping when they could go on and elaborate why I am wrong.
My post was not to YOU, it was to Mazhar.And cover not Truth with falsehood, nor conceal the Truth when ye know (what it is).
Don't worry about people's feelings or fear hurt feelings, fear The God and worry about The God's commandments not to conceal the truth.
I dont conceal what I believe to be the truth, even if certain people attack me for not having the same views.I'm not saying be tactless and offensive, but don't conceal the truth either.
I dont.p.s. I know the above verse is addressing the Children of Israel and concealing their revelation but my current understanding is that it can apply to all of us.
yes it applies to all of us as does all the rest of Quran.
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Then take it up with Allah as to WHY He confirmed those Books repeatedly throughout Quran and why He kept referencing things from those Books! That is not MY OWN understanding it is from Quran!
Would you like me to post your own message where you provide links for passages from the old testament to highlight what you follow for what is and isn't forbidden?
If you need to reference the old testament for what is and isn't forbidden in regards to food, the how is the Qu'ran a clear explanation for everything?
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"with alcohol thats not the case and one can be a social drinker for years and years without getting to the point one has to have it."
if you are a social drinker for years and years, no matter what you want to say to justify it, it is obvious that you have to have it...
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because i was busy and have a life, my apologies for that!
Then why wouldn't you say I have to go do something, I cannot answer in full. You said I could go on but I will stop if you could go on, then that means...that you could go on...but you chose not too, not I can't go on because I have to go to work...you should choose your words carefully
My post was not to YOU, it was to Mazhar.
I dont conceal what I believe to be the truth, even if certain people attack me for not having the same views.
I dont.
yes it applies to all of us as does all the rest of Quran. -
"because i was busy and have a life, my apologies for that!"
"I will stop now, I could go on."
Then why wouldn't you say I have to go do something i.e. work, I have to stop now. You said I could go on but I will stop...if you could go on, then that means...that you could go on...but from what you said, it can be understood that you chose not too, not I can't go on because I have to go to work...you should choose your words carefully.
No, were you? But you testify based on the message in Quran the same as I do.
What IS your problem with me AK85? I have tried my best to answer your original question in as many ways I can so you will understand the words 'bear witness' and you now come back screaming at me that I did not witness anything and accuse me of saying things I have NOT said. What is your problem with me?
Then why would you say that proof enough for you was the recital period? You didn't say it was The Message that proves his testimony, you said it was the fact that a man with little to no education one day started reciting the Qu'ran. That is what you said, not that The Message itself was your proof.
Here let me quote you
"A mortal man with little to no education suddenly starts reciting words like Quran, that is evidence enough for me and evidence enough for those that believe. Where do you think it came from if not from God?"
And this is what I said, which the above was a reply to, the bracketed portion is me elaborating
"Based on the evidence they were given they believed that he was The Messenger of The God? What evidence? I am not talking about evidence in regards to the enlightening contents of the Qu'ran, (This is what is my evidence) I am talking about direct evidence that the Prophet received revelations from The God."
And what do you mean how do I draw that you are implying I am not a believer? If you say that the fact that he recited the Qu'ran period when he had little to no education is enough for those who believe as a reply to me for saying that my evidence is the message itself then how else can I possibly understand it?
And if you don't look for replies, how did you know there were replies for this thread? You know you can click on the top right corner of the main forum page for replies. I haven't even been here as long as you and I know this.
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AK85,
I can only lament that by ak85 rapid indiscriminate bursting you have detracted Ayesha from critically analyzing frame of mind into attending to your trivial word play. While critically analyzing and commenting on translation she paused so that I could conveniently attend to her raised points. I took it as good manners. I wish Ayesha goes back in that frame of mind and suggests her observations about translation.
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explaining to bear witness to me but not very well it seems eh?
tes?ti?fy
/tstfa/ Show Spelled Show IPA verb, -fied, -fy?ing.
?verb (used without object)
1.
to bear witness; give or afford evidence.
2.
Law . to give testimony under oath or solemn affirmation, usually in court.
3.
to make solemn declaration.
?verb (used with object)
4.
to bear witness to; affirm as fact or truth; attest.
5.
to give or afford evidence of in any manner.
6.
Law . to state or declare under oath or affirmation, usually in court.
7.
to declare, profess, or acknowledge openly.wit?ness
/wtns/ Show Spelled Show IPA
?verb (used with object)
1.
to see, hear, or know by personal presence and perception to witness an accident.
2.
to be present at (an occurrence) as a formal witness, spectator, bystander, etc. She witnessed our wedding.
3.
to bear witness to; testify to; give or afford evidence of.
4.
to attest by one's Signature He witnessed her will.
?verb (used without object)
5.
to bear witness; testify; give or afford evidence.?noun
6.
an individual who, being present, personally sees or perceives a thing; a beholder, spectator, or eyewitness.
7.
a person or thing that affords evidence.
8.
a person who gives testimony, as in a court of law.
9.
a person who signs a document attesting the genuineness of its execution.
10.
testimony or evidence to bear witness to her suffering.
11.
( initial capital letter ) a member of the Jehovah's Witnessesyou can use both without object
To witness something means seeing hearing it but to bear witness and to testify does not have to have an object that is seen or heard, if that makes sense.
To witness a signature you have to be there to see it, to bear witness and to testify that is the persons signature you dont have to have seen them sign.
Once again, its clear that both definitions...provide the other term as part of a definition for themselves
And I am not a hypocrite for believing laa lilaha illAllah, because The God's PROOFS for those who believe are detailed for me in the Qu'ran.
I don't believe that we as humans should exist without the mercy of The God, look what we do to this planet. We are a cancer on this planet, we exist ONLY because of the Mercy of The God. This is one of the PROOFS for me that The God exists. I don't need to see The God directly, or witness The God directly, I bear witness to His PROOFS.
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AK85,
I can only lament that by ak85 rapid indiscriminate bursting you have detracted Ayesha from critically analyzing frame of mind into attending to your trivial word play. While critically analyzing and commenting on translation she paused so that I could conveniently attend to her raised points. I took it as good manners. I wish Ayesha goes back in that frame of mind and suggests her observations about translation.
you replied to one post of hers, in six posts. What you did was no different from what I have done. Talking about the one where she says she is sorry if she hurts your feelings.
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Would you like me to post your own message where you provide links for passages from the old testament to highlight what you follow for what is and isn't forbidden?
Dont bother AK I will post my one post I made on that subject for you so everyone can see what I actually said.
"Considering Allah confirmed the torah and given we are allowed to eat the food of the Jews, the instructions regarding what you can or cannot eat are in Torah.
http//www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Leviticus+11&version=KJV
http//www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Deuteronomy+14&version=KJVThats also where it says about seafood too. You will find this is the same food as in Quran but I think the various birds and animals are named more. Tigers and Lions have paws, so they are out. No eagle pies either and actually no shellfish, you will find many muslims also say this but are never sure where it came from"
THAT is what I said. Now look at 51 and 55 to understand the highlight I made in red.
If you need to reference the old testament for what is and isn't forbidden in regards to food, the how is the Qu'ran a clear explanation for everything?
Because I believe that ALL the Books sent from Allah are the complete BOOK. Al Kitab, The Book, Allah sent in portions to different people. see 323, 444, 451. If we are to have different food to the people of the book, which included Jews and Christians because it is One Book, how come 55 say our food is lawful to the them?
51 says you can eat all 4 footed animals apart from the exceptions named, they are named in Torah, the only one named again in Quran is swine as far as im aware. -
"with alcohol thats not the case and one can be a social drinker for years and years without getting to the point one has to have it."
if you are a social drinker for years and years, no matter what you want to say to justify it, it is obvious that you have to have it...
Quote from AK85 on May 30, 2010, 124136 AM
You know alcohol is the most addictive drug on earth right even more than heroin?Ayisha
No, opiates (including heroin) are more addictive than alcohol. Tobacco is more addictive than alcohol. There are newer designer drugs that are more highly addictive than heroin too. A person cannot generally do heroin or other such drugs, including tobacco, as a social thing without getting addicted to the point they have to have some, with alcohol thats not the case and one can be a social drinker for years and years without getting to the point one has to have it. There are some benefits of alcohol too and many other drugs when used properly of course. I was given Morphine after my last operation and although the effect was nice I couldnt get into chucking up that regular as a leisure passtime GrinOf course there are certain people with 'addictive personalities' who tend to become an addict of one thing after another, this is not the norm.
That was my one post on that subject to which you posted in this thread "why you believe relying on alcohol is ok for social occasions because some people are not self destructive alcoholics. " which is clearly not what I said at all.
some people drink on social occassions, they do not have to have it and that is not what I said. A social occassion can be a wedding/funeral/nightout/birthday/etc where some people have a drink, it does not mean they are alcoholics or addicted or have to have it. I said nothing at all about relying on it either. I am talking about some people and not specifically muslims, there are other people in the world.
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Dont bother AK I will post my one post I made on that subject for you so everyone can see what I actually said.
"Considering Allah confirmed the torah and given we are allowed to eat the food of the Jews, the instructions regarding what you can or cannot eat are in Torah.
http//www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Leviticus+11&version=KJV
http//www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Deuteronomy+14&version=KJVThats also where it says about seafood too. You will find this is the same food as in Quran but I think the various birds and animals are named more. Tigers and Lions have paws, so they are out. No eagle pies either and actually no shellfish, you will find many muslims also say this but are never sure where it came from"
THAT is what I said. Now look at 51 and 55 to understand the highlight I made in red.
Because I believe that ALL the Books sent from Allah are the complete BOOK. Al Kitab, The Book, Allah sent in portions to different people. see 323, 444, 451. If we are to have different food to the people of the book, which included Jews and Christians because it is One Book, how come 55 say our food is lawful to the them?
51 says you can eat all 4 footed animals apart from the exceptions named, they are named in Torah, the only one named again in Quran is swine as far as im aware.I am not disputing we are allowed to eat the food of the Jews. I am disputing necessity for turning to the old testament for clarification of specific foods.