Skip to content
  • Categories
  • Recent
  • Users
Skins
  • Light
  • Brite
  • Cerulean
  • Cosmo
  • Flatly
  • Journal
  • Litera
  • Lumen
  • Lux
  • Materia
  • Minty
  • Morph
  • Pulse
  • Sandstone
  • Simplex
  • Sketchy
  • Spacelab
  • United
  • Yeti
  • Zephyr
  • Dark
  • Cyborg
  • Darkly
  • Quartz
  • Slate
  • Solar
  • Superhero
  • Vapor

  • Default (No Skin)
  • No Skin
Collapse
Free Minds Forum Icon
  1. Home
  2. General Issues / Questions
  3. Questions/Comments on the Quran
  4. "Laa lilaha illallah"

"Laa lilaha illallah"

Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved Questions/Comments on the Quran
166 Posts 14 Posters 6.4k Views
  • Oldest to Newest
  • Newest to Oldest
  • Most Votes
Reply
  • Reply as topic
Log in to reply
This topic has been deleted. Only users with topic management privileges can see it.
  • A Offline
    A Offline
    AK85
    wrote on last edited by
    #61

    It is talking about those that make a testimony to believing Muhammed is the messenger of Allah, nothing to do with being a witness to the revelation. But Allah is saying He knows they are liars because they do NOT really believe him to be a messenger of Allah.

    I dont know any Maltese to ask but being English I would say God as there is only One God I would of course mean The God.

    It is saying those who verbally testify they believe Muhammed is a messenger of Allah but do NOT really believe he is a messenger of Allah, then they are hypocrites and liars for testifying to what they dont really believe.

    but isn't testimony/testify(ing) and witness(ing) the same thing?

    1 Reply Last reply
    0
    • A Offline
      A Offline
      Ayisha
      wrote on last edited by
      #62

      but isn't testimony/testify(ing) and witness(ing) the same thing?

      no not really, there are slight differences.

      tes?ti?fy
      /tstfa/ Show Spelled Show IPA verb, -fied, -fy?ing.
      ?verb (used without object)
      1.
      to bear witness; give or afford evidence.
      2.
      Law . to give testimony under oath or solemn affirmation, usually in court.
      3.
      to make solemn declaration.
      ?verb (used with object)
      4.
      to bear witness to; affirm as fact or truth; attest.
      5.
      to give or afford evidence of in any manner.
      6.
      Law . to state or declare under oath or affirmation, usually in court.
      7.
      to declare, profess, or acknowledge openly.

      wit?ness
      /wtns/ Show Spelled Show IPA
      ?verb (used with object)
      1.
      to see, hear, or know by personal presence and perception to witness an accident.
      2.
      to be present at (an occurrence) as a formal witness, spectator, bystander, etc. She witnessed our wedding.
      3.
      to bear witness to; testify to; give or afford evidence of.
      4.
      to attest by one's Signature He witnessed her will.
      ?verb (used without object)
      5.
      to bear witness; testify; give or afford evidence.

      ?noun
      6.
      an individual who, being present, personally sees or perceives a thing; a beholder, spectator, or eyewitness.
      7.
      a person or thing that affords evidence.
      8.
      a person who gives testimony, as in a court of law.
      9.
      a person who signs a document attesting the genuineness of its execution.
      10.
      testimony or evidence to bear witness to her suffering.
      11.
      ( initial capital letter ) a member of the Jehovah's Witnesses

      you can use both without object

      To witness something means seeing hearing it but to bear witness and to testify does not have to have an object that is seen or heard, if that makes sense.

      To witness a signature you have to be there to see it, to bear witness and to testify that is the persons signature you dont have to have seen them sign.

      1 Reply Last reply
      0
      • A Offline
        A Offline
        AK85
        wrote on last edited by
        #63

        no not really, there are slight differences.

        tes?ti?fy
        /tstfa/ Show Spelled Show IPA verb, -fied, -fy?ing.
        ?verb (used without object)
        1.
        to bear witness; give or afford evidence.
        2.
        Law . to give testimony under oath or solemn affirmation, usually in court.
        3.
        to make solemn declaration.
        ?verb (used with object)
        4.
        to bear witness to; affirm as fact or truth; attest.
        5.
        to give or afford evidence of in any manner.
        6.
        Law . to state or declare under oath or affirmation, usually in court.
        7.
        to declare, profess, or acknowledge openly.

        wit?ness
        /wtns/ Show Spelled Show IPA
        ?verb (used with object)
        1.
        to see, hear, or know by personal presence and perception to witness an accident.
        2.
        to be present at (an occurrence) as a formal witness, spectator, bystander, etc. She witnessed our wedding.
        3.
        to bear witness to; testify to; give or afford evidence of.
        4.
        to attest by one's Signature He witnessed her will.
        ?verb (used without object)
        5.
        to bear witness; testify; give or afford evidence.

        ?noun
        6.
        an individual who, being present, personally sees or perceives a thing; a beholder, spectator, or eyewitness.
        7.
        a person or thing that affords evidence.
        8.
        a person who gives testimony, as in a court of law.
        9.
        a person who signs a document attesting the genuineness of its execution.
        10.
        testimony or evidence to bear witness to her suffering.
        11.
        ( initial capital letter ) a member of the Jehovah's Witnesses

        you can use both without object

        To witness something means seeing hearing it but to bear witness and to testify does not have to have an object that is seen or heard, if that makes sense.

        To witness a signature you have to be there to see it, to bear witness and to testify that is the persons signature you dont have to have seen them sign.

        going by the definitions you have bolded, to testify is to bear witness. A person is not called during a trial to bear witness/testify unless they can bear witness to their testimony to whatever it is their are testifying about. Someone who witnessed a murder is called to testify because they witnessed the murder.

        A psychologist who is called to testify about psychiatric conditions which match a profile of a person involved in a case is called because she can bear witness to the symptoms/conditions which match the profile of the person who she is testifying in regards to.

        How can they witness with personal presence and perception that the prophet pbuh was the messenger of The God? No one can, even those who followed and follow his Message. None of us were inside his head and personally witnessed/perceived The Message being transmitted to him.

        1 Reply Last reply
        0
        • A Offline
          A Offline
          Ayisha
          wrote on last edited by
          #64

          going by the definitions you have bolded, to testify is to bear witness. A person is not called during a trial to bear witness/testify unless they can bear witness to their testimony to whatever it is their are testifying about. Someone who witnessed a murder is called to testify because they witnessed the murder.
          that is an eye witness, they witnessed with an 'object' of thier witnessing. ie the murder.

          A psychologist who is called to testify about psychiatric conditions which match a profile of a person involved in a case is called because she can bear witness to the symptoms/conditions which match the profile of the person who she is testifying in regards to.
          yes they can bear witness without even seeing the person, just by reading the symptoms written by someone else.

          How can they witness with personal presence and perception that the prophet pbuh was the messenger of The God? No one can, even those who followed and follow his Message. None of us were inside his head and personally witnessed/perceived The Message being transmitted to him.

          They bear witness that they BELIEVE him to be based on the evidence they have been given, as the shrink in the murder trial above.

          As I said, you can bear witness to someones signature even if you were not there to witness the signature but based on evidence given, like if someone gave me a document with my dad's signature on it even though I didnt see him sign it I can testify that is his signature.

          I bear witness/I testify/ I BELIEVE

          1 Reply Last reply
          0
          • M Offline
            M Offline
            Mazhar
            wrote on last edited by
            #65

            As I said, you can bear witness to someones signature even if you were not there to witness the signature but based on evidence given, like if someone gave me a document with my dad's signature on it even though I didnt see him sign it I can testify that is his signature.

            No, no court in the whole of the world will accept you as witness in such case. In such cases testimony of a writing expert is admissible in evidence before the court. Only a person who is signatory or his signature also appear on the document as witness about its contents can be accepted as witness in evidence before court, in relation to that document.

            1 Reply Last reply
            0
            • A Offline
              A Offline
              Ayisha
              wrote on last edited by
              #66

              No, no court in the whole of the world will accept you as witness in such case. In such cases testimony of a writing expert is admissible in evidence before the court. Only a person who is signatory or his signature also appear on the document as witness about its contents can be accepted as witness in evidence before court, in relation to that document.

              I wasnt refering to court regarding the signature, I thought at first that using that would make it easier to understand, obviously it didnt. ;D I suppose it was using the word 'evidence' that make you think court again.

              The question asked by AK85 was "First of all, when they say "We bear witness" can it not be said (I'm seriously asking for some feedback and perhaps constructive criticism on the following) they are hypocrites because they are not actually bearing witness? Are they in the prophet pbuh's head and witnessing the revelation? They are only witnessing it through him uttering the revelation, not through directly witnessing the message being delivered"

              So on that basis anyone here that has said la illaha illallah is also a hypocrite as we have not seen God, we have not 'Witnessed' God in person. the testimony of I bear witness that there is No God But God is based on what we see as evidence in His Words but not with everyone. I fully believe and testify that there is no God but God the Creator of the Universe and everything in it because of the proof I see of it every day. I have not seen God but I will testify there is one and that testimony does not have to be related to a court of law.

              Now back to my dads signature. If someone came to me with a paper and said 'is this your dad's signature' and I said 'yes it is' then I am witnessing/testifying that as far as I believe that is my dad's signature. I do not have to have seen him sign that particular document.

              1 Reply Last reply
              0
              • A Offline
                A Offline
                Asana
                wrote on last edited by
                #67

                Peace Ayisha

                qoute<So on that basis anyone here that has said la illaha illallah is also a hypocrite as we have not seen God, we have not 'Witnessed' God in person. the testimony of I bear witness that there is No God But God is based on what we see as evidence in His Words but not with everyone. I fully believe and testify that there is no God but God the Creator of the Universe and everything in it because of the proof I see of it every day. I have not seen God but I will testify there is one and that testimony does not have to be related to a court of law.>

                Actually God took us to bear witness to Him as our Lord. Here is the verse

                Recall that your Lord summoned all the descendants of Adam, and had them bear witness for themselves "Am I not your Lord?" They all said, "Yes. We bear witness." Thus, you cannot say on the Day of Resurrection, "We were not aware of this."

                As for bearing witness to messngership of Prophet, we are asked only to believe in him.
                Therefore testifying for prophet?s messngership is false and God specifically asks us not to testify falsely.

                318 again reminds us that of who bear witness to unity of God

                GOD bears witness that there is no god except He, and so do the angels and those who possess knowledge. Truthfully and equitably, He is the absolute god; there is no god but He, the Almighty, Most Wise.

                Here are some more verses. They?re reminding us that God bear witness to what he revealed to him. Verse 631 God calls those who bear witness to his messngership liars because Him Alone bears witness.

                Anything good that happens to you is from GOD, and anything bad that happens to you is from you. We have sent you as a messenger to the people,* and GOD suffices as witness.
                But GOD bears witness concerning what He has revealed to you; He has revealed it with His knowledge. And the angels bear witness as well, but GOD suffices as witness.

                Peace

                1 Reply Last reply
                0
                • A Offline
                  A Offline
                  Ayisha
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #68

                  Peace Ayisha

                  qoute<So on that basis anyone here that has said la illaha illallah is also a hypocrite as we have not seen God, we have not 'Witnessed' God in person. the testimony of I bear witness that there is No God But God is based on what we see as evidence in His Words but not with everyone. I fully believe and testify that there is no God but God the Creator of the Universe and everything in it because of the proof I see of it every day. I have not seen God but I will testify there is one and that testimony does not have to be related to a court of law.>

                  Actually God took us to bear witness to Him as our Lord. Here is the verse

                  Recall that your Lord summoned all the descendants of Adam, and had them bear witness for themselves "Am I not your Lord?" They all said, "Yes. We bear witness." Thus, you cannot say on the Day of Resurrection, "We were not aware of this."

                  As for bearing witness to messngership of Prophet, we are asked only to believe in him.
                  Therefore testifying for prophet?s messngership is false and God specifically asks us not to testify falsely.

                  318 again reminds us that of who bear witness to unity of God

                  GOD bears witness that there is no god except He, and so do the angels and those who possess knowledge. Truthfully and equitably, He is the absolute god; there is no god but He, the Almighty, Most Wise.

                  Here are some more verses. They?re reminding us that God bear witness to what he revealed to him. Verse 631 God calls those who bear witness to his messngership liars because Him Alone bears witness.

                  Anything good that happens to you is from GOD, and anything bad that happens to you is from you. We have sent you as a messenger to the people,* and GOD suffices as witness.
                  But GOD bears witness concerning what He has revealed to you; He has revealed it with His knowledge. And the angels bear witness as well, but GOD suffices as witness.

                  Peace

                  Peace Asana

                  Yes I know. Thats what I have been trying to say. I think you may have misunderstood who was saying what and why I said the quote you quoted. i am trying to explain 'to bear witness' to AK85 but not very well it seems ;D

                  1 Reply Last reply
                  0
                  • M Offline
                    M Offline
                    Mazhar
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #69

                    Quote
                    As for 631 is it saying if the hypocrites say to you (the prophet pbuh) that they bear witness, then they are hypocrites or is it saying hypocrites period are those who come to you to verbally bear witness? They can bear witness by supporting the prophet pbuh and by heeding The Message correct? Or is it just saying if the hypocrites say this rather than this is what the hypocrites say

                    It is saying those who verbally testify they believe Muhammed is a messenger of Allah but do NOT really believe he is a messenger of Allah, then they are hypocrites and liars for testifying to what they dont really believe. Ayesha

                    The verse is specifically about the Muna'fi'qoon.

                    http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/063.%20Al%20Munafiqoon/63.1p.gif
                    When the Muna'fi'qoon had come to you, the Messenger Muhammad they orally said,
                    http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/063.%20Al%20Munafiqoon/63.1q.gif
                    "We bear witness that indeed you are certainly the Messenger of Allah"
                    http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/063.%20Al%20Munafiqoon/63.1r.gif
                    And Allah knows that indeed you are certainly His Messenger;
                    http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/063.%20Al%20Munafiqoon/63.01c.gif
                    and Allah bears witness that indeed the Muna'fi'qeen are certainly the liars.

                    The information is general in nature that they are liars and is not with reference to their truthful statement.

                    http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/058.%20Al%20Mujadilata/58.016p.gif
                    These Muna'fi'qeen have consciously and purposely adopted their declarations as protective shield/deception;
                    http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/063.%20Al%20Munafiqoon/63.2p.gif
                    for reason/with this deceptive umbrella they obstructed/hindered people from the path of Allah.
                    http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/009.%20At%20Tauba/Temp%2001%209,09.gif
                    Indeed evil/extremely harmful is for them what they have been doing .

                    Chapter63 Al Muna'fi'qoon

                    1 Reply Last reply
                    0
                    • A Offline
                      A Offline
                      Ayisha
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #70

                      Yes Mazhar the verse is about the Muna'fi'qoon but they can be those close to the prophet who bear witness that he is the messenger of Allah with their mouths but in their hearts do not really believe him to be. Dont make the mistake of thinking this does not mean one you assume to be Muslim, same as 'unbelievers' according to Allah are among the 'muslims'.

                      1 Reply Last reply
                      0
                      • M Offline
                        M Offline
                        Mazhar
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #71

                        The basic "qualification" of Muna'fi'qoon is that they are the claimaints of belief/faith in Allah and the Last Day and that Muhammad Sal'lallaa'hoalaih'wa'salam is the Messenger of Allah. And they make a public declaration about it before/in the society of Believers. Hence they are considered, treated and identified distintly from the idolators and Kaafir. Their identity in the world is with Believers and Muslims since they live with them and proclaim to be from amongst them.

                        1 Reply Last reply
                        0
                        • A Offline
                          A Offline
                          Ayisha
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #72

                          The basic "qualification" of Muna'fi'qoon is that they are the claimaints of belief/faith in Allah and the Last Day and that Muhammad Sal'lallaa'hoalaih'wa'salam is the Messenger of Allah. And they make a public declaration about it before/in the society of Believers. Hence they are considered, treated and identified distintly from the idolators and Kaafir. Their identity in the world is with Believers and Muslims since they live with them and proclaim to be from amongst them.

                          Bold above is from me

                          That is more or less what I said but I disagree with what I made bold. There were hypocrites before Muhammed so this has nothing to do with him. It is one who says he believes in Allah but does not believe as instructed to by Allah. Doesnt trust in Allah etc. Among the Jews and Christians are hypocrites who have never claimed to believe in the prophet Muhammed but they disbelieve in Allah. see 460-61, 849

                          1 Reply Last reply
                          0
                          • M Offline
                            M Offline
                            Mazhar
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #73

                            That is more or less what I said but I disagree with what I made bold. There were hypocrites before Muhammed so this has nothing to do with him.

                            It is a baseless, unfounded and unsubstained statement and hence is a conjecture. The issue is that of Muna'fi'qoon and I found nowhere in Qur'aan that they existed before Muhammad Sal'lallaa'hoalaih'wa'salam too. The word "hypocrites" is not the synonym/equivalent of Arabic word Muna'fi'qoon since they are unimbiguously defined and their traits and psyche is vividly described.

                            Among the Jews and Christians are hypocrites who have never claimed to believe in the prophet Muhammed but they disbelieve in Allah. see 460-61, 849

                            This too is blatently a false statement. Both verses are specifically about Muna'fi'qoon and not about Jews and Christians who do not believe in the Last Messenger. Anyone who retains the identity of Jew or Christian is never a Munafiq. He is merely Non-Believer. Terms and identities are not interchangeable.

                            1 Reply Last reply
                            0
                            • A Offline
                              A Offline
                              Ayisha
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #74

                              "That is more or less what I said but I disagree with what I made bold. There were hypocrites before Muhammed so this has nothing to do with him."

                              It is a baseless, unfounded and unsubstained statement and hence is a conjecture. The issue is that of Muna'fi'qoon and I found nowhere in Qur'aan that they existed before Muhammad Sal'lallaa'hoalaih'wa'salam too. The word "hypocrites" is not the synonym/equivalent of Arabic word Muna'fi'qoon since they are unimbiguously defined and their traits and psyche is vividly described.

                              These are the hypocrites/Muna'fi'qoon of the people that were given the message BEFORE Muhammed. There are many more verses saying similar.

                              "Among the Jews and Christians are hypocrites who have never claimed to believe in the prophet Muhammed but they disbelieve in Allah. see 460-61, 849"

                              This too is blatently a false statement. Both verses are specifically about Muna'fi'qoon and not about Jews and Christians who do not believe in the Last Messenger. Anyone who retains the identity of Jew or Christian is never a Munafiq. He is merely Non-Believer. Terms and identities are not interchangeable.

                              Yours is blatantly a false statement as there are Muna'fi'qoon among the Jews and Christians as 460-61 has shown you, just as there are among the muslims.

                              I dont have time right now to search for other verses to disprove your claim but Muna'fi'qoon are unbelievers but unbelievers are not necessarily Muna'fi'qoon

                              1 Reply Last reply
                              0
                              • M Offline
                                M Offline
                                Mazhar
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #75

                                These are the hypocrites/Muna'fi'qoon of the people that were given the message BEFORE Muhammed. There are many more verses saying similar.

                                "Among the Jews and Christians are hypocrites who have never claimed to believe in the prophet Muhammed but they disbelieve in Allah. see 460-61, 849"

                                It seems either Ayesha you do not understnd what is said in these Arabic words or are just insisting on your point nothwithstanding how irrational and baseless it has been proved. This all is about . It begins

                                Jews and Christians do not have such claim. It is only the . No one amongst Jews and Christians, who do not accept Qur'aan or do not declare as such, is a Munafiq.

                                1 Reply Last reply
                                0
                                • A Offline
                                  A Offline
                                  Ayisha
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #76

                                  It seems either Ayesha you do not understnd what is said in these Arabic words or are just insisting on your point nothwithstanding how irrational and baseless it has been proved. This all is about . It begins

                                  Jews and Christians do not have such claim. It is only the . No one amongst Jews and Christians, who do not accept Qur'aan or do not declare as such, is a Munafiq.

                                  Mazhar we are talking about the word Muna'fi'qoon which you claim is

                                  "The basic "qualification" of Muna'fi'qoon is that they are the claimaints of belief/faith in Allah and the Last Day and that Muhammad Sal'lallaa'hoalaih'wa'salam is the Messenger of Allah. And they make a public declaration about it before/in the society of Believers. Hence they are considered, treated and identified distintly from the idolators and Kaafir. "

                                  Which is false. There are Muna'fi'qoon among the followers of the previous books

                                  009.068
                                  YUSUFALI Allah hath promised the Hypocrites men and women, and the rejecters, of Faith, the fire of Hell Therein shall they dwell Sufficient is it for them for them is the curse of Allah, and an enduring punishment,-
                                  009.069
                                  YUSUFALI As in the case of those before you they were mightier than you in power, and more flourishing in wealth and children. They had their enjoyment of their portion and ye have of yours, as did those before you; and ye indulge in idle talk as they did. They!- their work are fruitless in this world and in the Hereafter, and they will lose (all spiritual good).
                                  009.070
                                  YUSUFALI Hath not the story reached them of those before them?- the People of Noah, and 'Ad, and Thamud; the People of Abraham, the men of Midian, and the cities overthrown. To them came their messengers with clear signs. It is not Allah Who wrongs them, but they wrong their own souls.

                                  These above are Muna'fi'qoon

                                  003.078
                                  YUSUFALI There is among them a section who distort the Book with their tongues (As they read) you would think it is a part of the Book, but it is no part of the Book; and they say, "That is from Allah," but it is not from Allah It is they who tell a lie against Allah, and (well) they know it!
                                  003.079
                                  YUSUFALI It is not (possible) that a man, to whom is given the Book, and Wisdom, and the prophetic office, should say to people "Be ye my worshippers rather than Allah's" on the contrary (He would say) "Be ye worshippers of Him Who is truly the Cherisher of all For ye have taught the Book and ye have studied it earnestly."

                                  These above are Muna'fi'qoon

                                  003.113
                                  YUSUFALI Not all of them are alike Of the People of the Book are a portion that stand (For the right) They rehearse the Signs of Allah all night long, and they prostrate themselves in adoration.

                                  003.114
                                  YUSUFALI They believe in Allah and the Last Day; they enjoin what is right, and forbid what is wrong; and they hasten (in emulation) in (all) good works They are in the ranks of the righteous.

                                  These above are NOT Muna'fi'qoon but have not done the required by your definition.

                                  Muna'fi'qoon is one who claims to follow Allah and believe in Allah and the message from Allah, but his heart/words/deeds show otherwise.

                                  It has nothing to do with declaring anything publicly or declaring any prophet is the prophet of Allah. the Jews who follow the message of Allah given to them only have to prfess belief in Allah, by default they agree the prophet who gave that message is a prophet and messenger. Same with Christians who follow what their prophet and messenger was given and not what he did not claim. A muslim who declares they believe Allah and Quran, the message from Allah, by default believes in Muhammed. The Jews and Christians who have not 'converted' and do not believe in Muhammed BUT stick to the books they were given by the prophets and messengers from Allah are not unbelievers or Muna'fi'qoon.

                                  1 Reply Last reply
                                  0
                                  • M Offline
                                    M Offline
                                    Mazhar
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #77

                                    Mazhar we are talking about the word Muna'fi'qoon which you claim is

                                    "The basic "qualification" of Muna'fi'qoon is that they are the claimaints of belief/faith in Allah and the Last Day and that Muhammad Sal'lallaa'hoalaih'wa'salam is the Messenger of Allah. And they make a public declaration about it before/in the society of Believers. Hence they are considered, treated and identified distintly from the idolators and Kaafir. "

                                    Which is false. There are Muna'fi'qoon among the followers of the previous books

                                    009.068
                                    YUSUFALI Allah hath promised the Hypocrites men and women, and the rejecters, of Faith, the fire of Hell Therein shall they dwell Sufficient is it for them for them is the curse of Allah, and an enduring punishment,-
                                    009.069
                                    YUSUFALI As in the case of those before you they were mightier than you in power, and more flourishing in wealth and children. They had their enjoyment of their portion and ye have of yours, as did those before you; and ye indulge in idle talk as they did. They!- their work are fruitless in this world and in the Hereafter, and they will lose (all spiritual good).
                                    009.070
                                    YUSUFALI Hath not the story reached them of those before them?- the People of Noah, and 'Ad, and Thamud; the People of Abraham, the men of Midian, and the cities overthrown. To them came their messengers with clear signs. It is not Allah Who wrongs them, but they wrong their own souls.

                                    These above are Muna'fi'qoon

                                    003.078
                                    YUSUFALI There is among them a section who distort the Book with their tongues (As they read) you would think it is a part of the Book, but it is no part of the Book; and they say, "That is from Allah," but it is not from Allah It is they who tell a lie against Allah, and (well) they know it!
                                    003.079
                                    YUSUFALI It is not (possible) that a man, to whom is given the Book, and Wisdom, and the prophetic office, should say to people "Be ye my worshippers rather than Allah's" on the contrary (He would say) "Be ye worshippers of Him Who is truly the Cherisher of all For ye have taught the Book and ye have studied it earnestly."

                                    These above are Muna'fi'qoon

                                    003.113
                                    YUSUFALI Not all of them are alike Of the People of the Book are a portion that stand (For the right) They rehearse the Signs of Allah all night long, and they prostrate themselves in adoration.

                                    003.114
                                    YUSUFALI They believe in Allah and the Last Day; they enjoin what is right, and forbid what is wrong; and they hasten (in emulation) in (all) good works They are in the ranks of the righteous.

                                    These above are NOT Muna'fi'qoon but have not done the required by your definition.

                                    Muna'fi'qoon is one who claims to follow Allah and believe in Allah and the message from Allah, but his heart/words/deeds show otherwise.

                                    It has nothing to do with declaring anything publicly or declaring any prophet is the prophet of Allah. the Jews who follow the message of Allah given to them only have to prfess belief in Allah, by default they agree the prophet who gave that message is a prophet and messenger. Same with Christians who follow what their prophet and messenger was given and not what he did not claim. A muslim who declares they believe Allah and Quran, the message from Allah, by default believes in Muhammed. The Jews and Christians who have not 'converted' and do not believe in Muhammed BUT stick to the books they were given by the prophets and messengers from Allah are not unbelievers or Muna'fi'qoon.

                                    It seems that you have noit given a second to think over what I have said and are keeping your mind revolving around what you said earlier, perhaps out of the cuff.

                                    Verses you have quoted are my point that Muna'fi'qoon are a distinct identity/people different from Polytheists and the People of Book.
                                    http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/009.%20At%20Tauba/9.68.gif
                                    The promise of Allah for Munafiqeen men and Munafiqat women and those who persistently refused to accept/believe is the scorching heat of Hell-Prison wherein they shall reside permanently.

                                    People of two different identities are mentioned. I don't know what makes you to consider them the same.

                                    http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/048.%20Al%20Fatha/48.6a.gif
                                    And He may punish the Muna'fi'qeen and the Muna'fi'qaat and the idols worshipping men and idol worshipping women,

                                    Munafiqeen have distinct and specific identity as Idol worshippers are distinct identity.

                                    Chapter 48 Verse 8

                                    http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/059.%20Al%20Hashr/59.11y.gif
                                    Have you not seen/given a thought towards those who have transformed themselves as deceivers and nurturers of malice
                                    http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/059.%20Al%20Hashr/59.11a.gif
                                    they say to their brothers from amongst the People of Book who have publicly refused to accept/believe ,

                                    Munafiqeen have distinct and specific identity from the People of Book who do not accept/believe.

                                    Chapter 59 Verse 11

                                    1 Reply Last reply
                                    0
                                    • A Offline
                                      A Offline
                                      Ayisha
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #78

                                      It seems that you have noit given a second to think over what I have said and are keeping your mind revolving around what you said earlier, perhaps out of the cuff.

                                      Verses you have quoted are my point that Muna'fi'qoon are a distinct identity/people different from Polytheists and the People of Book.
                                      http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/009.%20At%20Tauba/9.68.gif
                                      The promise of Allah for Munafiqeen men and Munafiqat women and those who persistently refused to accept/believe is the scorching heat of Hell-Prison wherein they shall reside permanently.

                                      People of two different identities are mentioned. I don't know what makes you to consider them the same.

                                      http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/048.%20Al%20Fatha/48.6a.gif
                                      And He may punish the Muna'fi'qeen and the Muna'fi'qaat and the idols worshipping men and idol worshipping women,

                                      Munafiqeen have distinct and specific identity as Idol worshippers are distinct identity.

                                      Chapter 48 Verse 8

                                      http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/059.%20Al%20Hashr/59.11y.gif
                                      Have you not seen/given a thought towards those who have transformed themselves as deceivers and nurturers of malice
                                      http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/059.%20Al%20Hashr/59.11a.gif
                                      they say to their brothers from amongst the People of Book who have publicly refused to accept/believe ,

                                      Munafiqeen have distinct and specific identity from the People of Book who do not accept/believe.

                                      Chapter 59 Verse 11

                                      Mazhar, I think you are not giving a second to think over what I have said either. The verses I quoted show that OF the people of the book there are also munafiqeen/hypocrites and it is not based on the definition you claimed it is.

                                      YES a munafiq is one who has said they believe in Allah AND Muhammed as the prophet but it is not limited to those people. A munafiq is also those of the people of the book who said they believed in Allah and did NOT. You are limiting your understanding of the word to where it is said in Quran only, where the word is USED, but there are other verses where the word is NOT used but the meaning is the same.

                                      I dont know whether it is your understanding of English or Arabic that is stopping you from seeing what I am trying very hard to explain. Munafiq is hypocrite, if you dont think so then please give me an English word that you think better relates to the word Munafiq so we can try to get on the same level of thought.

                                      1 Reply Last reply
                                      0
                                      • A Offline
                                        A Offline
                                        Ayisha
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #79

                                        It seems that you have noit given a second to think over what I have said and are keeping your mind revolving around what you said earlier, perhaps out of the cuff.

                                        Verses you have quoted are my point that Muna'fi'qoon are a distinct identity/people different from Polytheists and the People of Book.
                                        http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/009.%20At%20Tauba/9.68.gif
                                        The promise of Allah for Munafiqeen men and Munafiqat women and those who persistently refused to accept/believe is the scorching heat of Hell-Prison wherein they shall reside permanently.

                                        People of two different identities are mentioned. I don't know what makes you to consider them the same.
                                        I did NOT consider them the same and I did NOT say they are the same. I said "Muna'fi'qoon are unbelievers but unbelievers are not necessarily Muna'fi'qoon", which does not mean they are the same. Munafiq are BY DEFAULT unbelievers as they claim to believe but DON'T really believe, Unbelievers just do not believe. Hence Munafiq are ALSO unbelievers but unbelievers are not necessarily Munafiq.

                                        1 Reply Last reply
                                        0
                                        • M Offline
                                          M Offline
                                          Mazhar
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #80

                                          The verses I quoted show that OF the people of the book there are also munafiqeen/hypocrites and it is not based on the definition you claimed it is.

                                          This is what is hampering you to understand a straight forward simple thing. Which word of the verse makes you think that there are munafiqeen amongst the People of Book who do not claim or pronounce that they have believed in Qur'aan and the Messemger? They are called Kaafir not Munifiqeen.

                                          1 Reply Last reply
                                          0
                                          Reply
                                          • Reply as topic
                                          Log in to reply
                                          • Oldest to Newest
                                          • Newest to Oldest
                                          • Most Votes


                                          • Login

                                          • Don't have an account? Register

                                          • Login or register to search.
                                          • First post
                                            Last post
                                          0
                                          • Categories
                                          • Recent
                                          • Users